Guest guest Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 > Amy Lanou, Ph.D., in SF on June 25 to talk about Building Bone Vital > Posted by: " Laura Beck " lbeck laurapcrm > This clear, convincing explanation of osteoporosis will change the way the world thinks about bone health. Lanou and Castleman prove beyond doubt that milk and dairy are the problem, not the solution. " Rory Freedman, coauthor of #1 New York Times best seller Skinny Bitch > Dr. Lanou, who co-authored the book with journalist Michael Castleman, argues that the best approach to osteoporosis prevention, the only one that makes scientific sense, is a diet very low in or devoid of animal foods and high in fruits and vegetables, combined with walking or equivalent exercise for 30 to 60 minutes a day, every day. It's important for vegans to know that the most important study to date on vegan bone health (a 2007 study from EPIC-Oxford) showed that vegans had significantly higher bone fracture rates than lacto-ovo vegetarians and meat-eaters. When they separated the vegans who got less than 525 mg of calcium per day from the vegans who got more than 525 mg, it was only the vegans who got less who had the higher fracture rates. But only 55% of the vegans got more than 525 mg! The idea that dairy and/or animal protein causes osteoporosis is, in my opinion, not true. Vegans are not protected by virtue of not eating animal protein, and they should make sure they get 525 mg of calcium, at the very least, each day. I recommend 700 - 1,000 mg for adults, and at least 1,000 mg for teenagers. Please note that my objective in pointing this out is to make sure vegans have the best bone health possible, not only for their own personal suffering, but also for the impacts it has on animals when studies come out finding that vegans have more fractures. Also note that while it is possible to get 700 - 1,000 mg of calcium by eating plant foods only and without fortified foods or supplements, it is very unusual. It would mean eating many cups of cooked greens each day (or unusually large amounts of other high-calcium plant foods), and most vegans simply don't do that. So most vegans should drink at least one glass of calcium-fortified soymilk, orange juice, or its equivalent, or take a supplement. More information is here: http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/bones#veganresearch Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian Vegan Outreach VeganOutreach.org Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at: JackNorrisRD.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Hmmm, did that study take bone-stressing exercise into account? Mike Anderson in his Eating book (http://www.RAVEdiet.com) cites the research that seems to conclude that calcium is completely, absolutely irrelevant. The problem is lack of exercise, specifically a lack of running, jogging, walking (but not, e.g., swimming). In my humble opinion as a 20+ year athletic vegan, most vegans unfortunately are hippie-dippies when it comes to exercise. That is, we don't do it. I lift weights and swim 3x/week, and I hate running, but I force myself to run 6x/week. Vegans need to get off the couch. Cheers,--MarkOn Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Jack Norris <jacknorris wrote: Vegans are not protected by virtue of not eating animal protein, and they should make sure they get 525 mg of calcium, at the very least, each day. I recommend 700 - 1,000 mg for adults, and at least 1,000 mg for teenagers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 I was diagnosed with osteopenia when I was 28. I became a vegan shortly there after and within 2 years my bone loss was completely gone! This was done through a vegan diet with lots of veggies and fruits and I did not take any calcium supplements. The acid in dairy can actually hinder the absorption of calcium in our bodies. Removing dairy and getting our calcium from leafy greens and other vegan sources can actually be better in building bone than if we were to drink a bunch of milk! I don't claim to be the expert on this subject but I've learned a great deal both from the book the China Study and from my own personal experience. Thanks! Molly From: markDate: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 16:31:47 -0500Re: Vegan Bone Health Hmmm, did that study take bone-stressing exercise into account? Mike Anderson in his Eating book (http://www.RAVEdiet.com) cites the research that seems to conclude that calcium is completely, absolutely irrelevant. The problem is lack of exercise, specifically a lack of running, jogging, walking (but not, e.g., swimming).In my humble opinion as a 20+ year athletic vegan, most vegans unfortunately are hippie-dippies when it comes to exercise. That is, we don't do it. I lift weights and swim 3x/week, and I hate running, but I force myself to run 6x/week. Vegans need to get off the couch.Cheers,--Mark On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Jack Norris <jacknorris (AT) spamarrest (DOT) com> wrote: Vegans are not protected by virtue of not eating animal protein, and they should make sure they get 525 mg of calcium, at the very least, each day. I recommend 700 - 1,000 mg for adults, and at least 1,000 mg for teenagers. Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2009 Report Share Posted June 2, 2009 Well, I was diagnosed this year with Osteopenia in my left hip. I have been vegan for 8 years, vegetarian for 22. I exercise at least 5 times per week, with weights and cardio. I have now started taking more Vitamin D and Calcium vegan supplements, along with a good diet rich in greens. Hopefully, this will either reverse, or at least stop the progression to Osteoporosis. Elaine Mark Kurowski <mark Tue, 2 Jun 2009 2:31 pm Re: Vegan Bone Health Hmmm, did that study take bone-stressing exercise into account? Mike Anderson in his Eating book (http://www.RAVEdiet.com) cites the research that seems to conclude that calcium is completely, absolutely irrelevant. The problem is lack of exercise, specifically a lack of running, jogging, walking (but not, e.g., swimming). In my humble opinion as a 20+ year athletic vegan, most vegans unfortunately are hippie-dippies when it comes to exercise. That is, we don't do it. I lift weights and swim 3x/week, and I hate running, but I force myself to run 6x/week. Vegans need to get off the couch. Cheers, --Mark On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Jack Norris <jacknorris (AT) spamarrest (DOT) com> wrote: Vegans are not protected by virtue of not eating animal protein, and they should make sure they get 525 mg of calcium, at the very least, each day. I recommend 700 - 1,000 mg for adults, and at least 1,000 mg for teenagers. Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America Takes it Off to learn how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Absolutely! … about dairy in the diet. After drinking a glass of cows’ milk, your body actually ends up in a net deficit of calcium due to the bones being the fastest resource for neutralizing the animal protein and that acid needs to be neutralized. The other item we sometimes fail to recognize is that often as vegetarians or vegans, we work so hard to “get enough protein” that we actually consume more protein than we should via tofu and soy products. Excess protein is very hard on our bones and calcium stores. Other acids that rob us are the more obvious ones, coffee, tea, soda … etc. The “need for more protein” is a very, very dangerous story we’re being told. It’s cause for much disease. Wynelle Ulrich Perhaps artist Hans Hoffman said it best: “The ability to simplify means to eliminate the unnecessary so that the necessary may speak.” My question is: " And how, exactly, is that done? " On Behalf Of Molly Wheeler Tuesday, June 02, 2009 4:20 PM mark; RE: Vegan Bone Health I was diagnosed with osteopenia when I was 28. I became a vegan shortly there after and within 2 years my bone loss was completely gone! This was done through a vegan diet with lots of veggies and fruits and I did not take any calcium supplements. The acid in dairy can actually hinder the absorption of calcium in our bodies. Removing dairy and getting our calcium from leafy greens and other vegan sources can actually be better in building bone than if we were to drink a bunch of milk! I don't claim to be the expert on this subject but I've learned a great deal both from the book the China Study and from my own personal experience. Thanks! Molly mark (AT) markkurowski (DOT) com Tue, 2 Jun 2009 16:31:47 -0500 Re: Vegan Bone Health Hmmm, did that study take bone-stressing exercise into account? Mike Anderson in his Eating book (http://www.RAVEdiet.com) cites the research that seems to conclude that calcium is completely, absolutely irrelevant. The problem is lack of exercise, specifically a lack of running, jogging, walking (but not, e.g., swimming). In my humble opinion as a 20+ year athletic vegan, most vegans unfortunately are hippie-dippies when it comes to exercise. That is, we don't do it. I lift weights and swim 3x/week, and I hate running, but I force myself to run 6x/week. Vegans need to get off the couch. Cheers, --Mark On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Jack Norris <jacknorris (AT) spamarrest (DOT) com> wrote: Vegans are not protected by virtue of not eating animal protein, and they should make sure they get 525 mg of calcium, at the very least, each day. I recommend 700 - 1,000 mg for adults, and at least 1,000 mg for teenagers. Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 > Posted by: " Mark Kurowski " mark > Tue Jun 2, 2009 3:37 pm (PDT) > Hmmm, did that study take bone-stressing exercise into account? Mike Anderson in his Eating book (http://www.RAVEdiet.com) cites the research that seems to conclude that calcium is completely, absolutely irrelevant. The problem is lack of exercise, specifically a lack of running, jogging, walking (but not, e.g., swimming). The study adjusted for: · walking, (o3, 3–5, 6–9, X10 h/week) · cycling (0, 0.5–1.5, 2.0–4.5, X5 h/week) · other exercise or sport (0, 0.5–1.5, 2.0–4.5, X5 h/week) · amount of vigorous exercise (0, 1–2, X3 h/week) · physical activity at work (unemployed or sedentary, standing, manual) The differences between diet groups were small. Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian Vegan Outreach VeganOutreach.org Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at: JackNorrisRD.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Thanks Jack! Not sure about the china study and bone-stressing exercise. In my personal case, my exercise level was the same (about 4 days of running and strength training per week) with diet being the only change. From: jacknorrisDate: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 15:58:08 -0700 Re: Vegan Bone Health > Posted by: "Mark Kurowski" mark (AT) markkurowski (DOT) com > Tue Jun 2, 2009 3:37 pm (PDT) > Hmmm, did that study take bone-stressing exercise into account? Mike Anderson in his Eating book (http://www.RAVEdiet.com) cites the research that seems to conclude that calcium is completely, absolutely irrelevant. The problem is lack of exercise, specifically a lack of running, jogging, walking (but not, e.g., swimming). The study adjusted for: · walking, (o3, 3–5, 6–9, X10 h/week) · cycling (0, 0.5–1.5, 2.0–4.5, X5 h/week) · other exercise or sport (0, 0.5–1.5, 2.0–4.5, X5 h/week) · amount of vigorous exercise (0, 1–2, X3 h/week) · physical activity at work (unemployed or sedentary, standing, manual) The differences between diet groups were small. Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian Vegan Outreach VeganOutreach.org Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at: JackNorrisRD.com Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don’t worry about storage limits. Check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 > Posted by: " Wynelle Ulrich " wynelleu wynelleulrich Fri Jun 5, 2009 5:22 pm (PDT) > After drinking a glass of cows' milk, your body actually ends up in a net deficit of calcium due to the bones > Excess protein is very hard on our bones and calcium stores. With all due respect, and as much as I don't think people should drink milk because of the suffering (and slaughter) of most cows, milk does not cause a net calcium deficit in normally consumed (or possibly any) amounts. Check out this abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12612170 And it would be rare for a vegan to eat so much protein that it causes them long-term harm. I would recommend this article for people who are interested in the subject: http://tinyurl.com/ku8rjq Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian Vegan Outreach VeganOutreach.org Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at: JackNorrisRD.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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