Guest guest Posted July 15, 2009 Report Share Posted July 15, 2009 Hello all! I am writing to you from the other side of the country in Blacksburg, Virginia. In brief, I am writing to the BAV list to inform you all about a strange website I came across through Twitter this past weekend. First, it is important to note that Michael Rowley has begun making some changes to the Virtually Vegan website. It is my opinion that this is happening only because I filed a complaint with the BBB of Silicon Valley, but perhaps he has had a change of heart. However, given the negative reactions from many other vegans online (in some cases *very strongly negative*), I would like to stress that even more negativity probably won't help. I cannot offer Michael Rowley any local support as he's in Mountain View, CA and I'm all the way in Blacksburg, VA. That is why I am contacting your organization. Perhaps you could reach out to " Virtually Vegan " with some local support? Again, a lot of nastiness has already happened online--just do a search for " @virtuallyvegan " on Twitter to see some of the mean comments. So I'm hoping that positive social pressure--support and encouragement, would come from this message to you all. Thanks! Andrew Collins http://twitter.com/dripsandcastle andrewrcollins Following are the email I sent to Tammy on Tuesday and the complaint I filed with the BBB (it is currently in process and, if I could stress it further, it appears changes are being made. Please, think positive support!). Email to Tammy ============================================================ I am writing to the Bay Area Vegetarians to make you aware of a matter that may be of interest and concern. Michael Rowley and Kiki Johnson of Mountain View, California have recently started a website " Virtually Vegan " which is not vegan, nor even vegetarian. They are of the opinion that eating tuna sald, as well as killing and eating oysters, falls within the definition of being vegan-- " virtually vegan. " As a vegan the above has been distressing for me personally and I contacted Virtually Vegan via email with my concerns and suggestions. In addition, a fairly large number of people online have also expressed disagreement with their continued attempts to re-define vegan. In the beginning the exchanges and responses were generally polite, but it appears that " Virtually Vegan " has begun digging in, barricading themselves from reality and is getting nasty: http://virtuallyvegan.com/2009/05/tuna-avocado-salad/ [The above page has been removed. However, if file uploads are allowed for this Group I kept copies of this webpage and the other two decidedly non-vegan--not even vegetarian, recipe examples.] " Ain't gonna happen, pal. How has my site lessened your being a vegan? Feelin' threatened? You're not about what you eat. This is just your pissing ground. This is America. I'm free to call myself anything I want. God Bless. " Here is their online contact information: Virtually Vegan http://twitter.com/virtuallyvegan http://www.virtuallyvegan.com/ Michael Rowley http://twitter.com/Mnemonix http://papernapkin.com/ michael Kiki Johnson http://twitter.com/mkikijo http://kikijo.com Here is my online contact information: Andrew Collins http://twitter.com/dripsandcastle andrewrcollins BBB Complaint ============================================================ BBB - Web Complaint info 14 Jul 2009 07:02:30 -0700 Thank you for filing your complaint. As you requested, below is a copy of your complaint. Within the next business day, you will receive an email acknowledging receipt of the complaint. That acknowledgment will also give you information on how you can track the status of your complaint through our website. Complainant Information Mr. Andrew Collins xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Blacksburg, VA 24060 USA andrewrcollins Phone: Fax: Company Information: Virtually Vegan 218 Murlagan Ave; Unit B Mountain View, CA 94043 Website: Phone: Complaint Text: There are not different types, kinds or classes of vegans. Virtually Vegan is nothing about vegans. Virtually Vegan is everything about health-conscious omnivores. Virtually Vegan seeks only to enrich itself financially through advertising revenue by capitalizing on the popularity of the " vegan brand. " It does so by misrepresenting itself as a recipe site and blog for vegans. I am glad for the decisions Virtually Vegan has made thus far, in reducing the amount of " red meat " in their diet and otherwise being health-conscious. However, its decision to create its own terminology, along with its lack of a clearly expressed decision not to eat or use animals in the future, put it outside and well beyond the known and accepted definition of vegan. Resolution Sought: I would like Virtually Vegan to stop advertising itself as a vegan recipe site and blog. I would like Virtually Vegan to offer its services online with a different name. I would like Virtually Vegan to stop associating itself with the " vegan brand. " Date Problem Started: 7/12/2009 Date of Transaction: Amount in Dispute: $0.00 Invoice Number: Complaint Type: Ad Practices Product or Service: If you have any questions regarding your complaint, please contact the Complaint Dept. at (408) 278-7400 or email info. Complaint Department BBB of Silicon Valley -- Andrew Collins andrewrcollins http://www.dripsandcastle.com/ Attachment: vcard [not shown] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Hi all Andrew, thanks for posting this and providing the update! I did quickly look at the website when you first contacted us, and I believe there were 3 categories, "virtually vegan", "vegan", and "vegetarian". I really hate to see people propagate the fallacy that vegetarians eat fish .. and, now, this website implying that vegans eat fish. So it's a good update to see the removal of the category "virtually vegan" where eating sea animals was promoted. This excerpt from their website explains their approach: "We were moving in the direction of vegetarianism, then I heard my brother Pat was ‘a vegan who ate sushi’. [snip] Kiki and I decided to cut out dairy and meat, but allow for fish that aren’t threatened." http://virtuallyvegan.com/what-does-virtually-vegan-mean/ They continue to discuss fish and oysters in other posts (although they have removed the recipes). The pictures are gruesome. Maybe someone will be dissuaded from eating cows, at least. http://virtuallyvegan.com/2009/07/flesh/comment-page-1/#comment-95 > http://virtuallyvegan.com/2009/05/tuna-avocado-salad/> [The above page has been removed. However, if file uploads are allowed> for this Group I kept copies of this webpage and the other two> decidedly non-vegan--not even vegetarian, recipe examples.] And, yes, if you have a userid, you can upload files to our . Cheers, Tammy My two cents, vegan-style .. - today or read it on GenerationV.org Save a life today - help us with public education & outreach 07/25 Plant-Powered Hikers: Redwoods! - Woodside 08/09 Food for Thought Philosophy Discussion: Case for Animal Rights - SF 09/19 Food for Thought Book Club: Ethics Into Action (new members welcome) - SF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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