Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Elchanan, > Yes, Jack there are many such studies that show different results. The folks who built this web site chose to cite studies favorable to a position they wish to take. I built the site and I did not choose to cite only studies favorable to a position I wanted to take as I had no position that I wanted to take. I cited the studies that were important to the question at hand and I would be more than happy to look at other studies (on humans, by the way) that contradict them. You seem to imply that you know of some. > Ergo, this is not a stunning demonstration of academic integrity. Nor have I been stunned by any demonstration of academic integrity by you. You have said a great deal, but have backed up none of it (in the posts that I have seen). If you have specific counter evidence I'd like to see it. I am concerned when I hear that a vegan was taking large doses of vitamin D2 and it did not improve her vitamin D levels. I think there is more research to be done. Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian Vegan Outreach VeganOutreach.org VeganHealth.org Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at: JackNorrisRD.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I agree Jack!It is so disapponting to hear vegans so "confused" when there is so much clear stuff from several honest vegan MDs and RDs like you, for example on vegsource.com. It often sounds like some people are so used to being lied to, that when honest people tell the truth they just can't hear it for what it is.Nothing wrong with being sceptical, but when it is over done it seems to lead to ignoance and then suffering.Seems to be so anti-vegan:-(Thanks for your efforts being honest clear and reducing sufferingPeace,Sam(415) 309-1879samhalseySent from my iPhoneOn Jan 30, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Jack Norris <jacknorris wrote: Elchanan, > Yes, Jack there are many such studies that show different results. The folks who built this web site chose to cite studies favorable to a position they wish to take. I built the site and I did not choose to cite only studies favorable to a position I wanted to take as I had no position that I wanted to take. I cited the studies that were important to the question at hand and I would be more than happy to look at other studies (on humans, by the way) that contradict them. You seem to imply that you know of some. > Ergo, this is not a stunning demonstration of academic integrity. Nor have I been stunned by any demonstration of academic integrity by you. You have said a great deal, but have backed up none of it (in the posts that I have seen). If you have specific counter evidence I'd like to see it. I am concerned when I hear that a vegan was taking large doses of vitamin D2 and it did not improve her vitamin D levels. I think there is more research to be done. Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian Vegan Outreach VeganOutreach.org VeganHealth.org Sign up for my veg nutrition blog at: JackNorrisRD.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Jack, I am happy to provide more information. I haven't thus far, because in my experience, very few people in discussion groups of this sort will ever read a study when one is provided. And, when I read your last paragraph, it occurs to me that I'm not certain what would be the focus. From your point of view, at this point, on what do we disagree or differ WRT this topic. Then I'll be happy to see what I can do. And ... it may take a few days. Elchanan PS: I keep getting something via your personal email that asks me to agree to some terms and conditions. Just FYI, I never respond to those, because I've read the terms and conditions. E On Behalf Of Jack Norris Saturday, January 30, 2010 10:23 AM vitamin D2 Elchanan, > Yes, Jack there are many such studies that show different results. The folks who built this web site chose to cite studies favorable to a position they wish to take. I built the site and I did not choose to cite only studies favorable to a position I wanted to take as I had no position that I wanted to take. I cited the studies that were important to the question at hand and I would be more than happy to look at other studies (on humans, by the way) that contradict them. You seem to imply that you know of some. > Ergo, this is not a stunning demonstration of academic integrity. Nor have I been stunned by any demonstration of academic integrity by you. You have said a great deal, but have backed up none of it (in the posts that I have seen). If you have specific counter evidence I'd like to see it. I am concerned when I hear that a vegan was taking large doses of vitamin D2 and it did not improve her vitamin D levels. I think there is more research to be done. Jack Norris, Registered Dietitian Vegan Outreach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I think this topic has run it's course. Its now gone off topic as the majority of the posts have zero to do with vegetariansism and the original request for information. Please take any further discussion off the list. Thank You Chris List Admin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Sorry to change the subject. I wonder if anyone knows of articles or links where I can have more info with regards to soy products. I have been reading some controversies with regards to health issues if one is overloaded with soy foods. For health reasons, I have been taking alot of soy products. Thanks. Elaine Sam Halsey <samhalseyJack Norris <jacknorrisCc: Sat, January 30, 2010 11:05:31 AMRe: vitamin D2 I agree Jack! It is so disapponting to hear vegans so "confused" when there is so much clear stuff from several honest vegan MDs and RDs like you, for example on vegsource.com. It often sounds like some people are so used to being lied to, that when honest people tell the truth they just can't hear it for what it is. Nothing wrong with being sceptical, but when it is over done it seems to lead to ignoance and then suffering. Seems to be so anti-vegan:- ( Thanks for your efforts being honest clear and reducing suffering Peace, Sam (415) 309-1879 samhalsey (AT) mac (DOT) com Sent from my iPhone On Jan 30, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Jack Norris <jacknorris@spamarre st.com> wrote: Elchanan,> Yes, Jack there are many such studies that show different results. Thefolkswho built this web site chose to cite studies favorable to a position theywish to take.I built the site and I did not choose to cite only studies favorable to aposition I wanted to take as I had no position that I wanted to take. Icited the studies that were important to the question at hand and I would bemore than happy to look at other studies (on humans, by the way) thatcontradict them. You seem to imply that you know of some.> Ergo, this is not a stunning demonstration of academic integrity.Nor have I been stunned by any demonstration of academic integrity by you.You have said a great deal, but have backed up none of it (in the posts thatI have seen). If you have specific counter evidence I'd like to see it. I am concernedwhen I hear that a vegan was taking large doses of vitamin D2 and it did notimprove her vitamin D levels. I think there is more research to be done.Jack Norris, Registered DietitianVegan OutreachVeganOutreach. orgVeganHealth. orgSign up for my veg nutrition blog at:JackNorrisRD. com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Good question.Real simple answer.A fun over simplification makes the point clear. More "Good" and less "Bad". First comes quality: Whole Plant food = "Good" Processed food = "Bad" Then comes quantity: More Whole Plant Food = "Good" More Processed Food = "Bad" Summary: Whole soy beans are whole plant foods = "Good" Processed soy products in large amounts = "Bad" Also some traditional, for example fermented soy foods, may have special health benefits in small amounts="Good" Bottom line is: Don't think lots of processed soy products are really healthful just because it says soy on it.On Jan 30, 2010, at 9:23 PM, Elaine Horn wrote:Sorry to change the subject. I wonder if anyone knows of articles or links where I can have more info with regards to soy products. I have been reading some controversies with regards to health issues if one is overloaded with soy foods.For health reasons, I have been taking alot of soy products. Thanks. ElaineSam Halsey <samhalseyJack Norris <jacknorrisCc: Sat, January 30, 2010 11:05:31 AMRe: vitamin D2I agree Jack!It is so disapponting to hear vegans so "confused" when there is so much clear stuff from several honest vegan MDs and RDs like you, for example on vegsource.com. It often sounds like some people are so used to being lied to, that when honest people tell the truth they just can't hear it for what it is.Nothing wrong with being sceptical, but when it is over done it seems to lead to ignoance and then suffering.Seems to be so anti-vegan:- (Thanks for your efforts being honest clear and reducing sufferingPeace,Sam(415) 309-1879samhalsey (AT) mac (DOT) comSent from my iPhoneOn Jan 30, 2010, at 10:22 AM, Jack Norris <jacknorris@spamarre st.com> wrote: Elchanan,> Yes, Jack there are many such studies that show different results. Thefolkswho built this web site chose to cite studies favorable to a position theywish to take.I built the site and I did not choose to cite only studies favorable to aposition I wanted to take as I had no position that I wanted to take. Icited the studies that were important to the question at hand and I would bemore than happy to look at other studies (on humans, by the way) thatcontradict them. You seem to imply that you know of some.> Ergo, this is not a stunning demonstration of academic integrity.Nor have I been stunned by any demonstration of academic integrity by you.You have said a great deal, but have backed up none of it (in the posts thatI have seen). If you have specific counter evidence I'd like to see it. I am concernedwhen I hear that a vegan was taking large doses of vitamin D2 and it did notimprove her vitamin D levels. I think there is more research to be done.Jack Norris, Registered DietitianVegan OutreachVeganOutreach. orgVeganHealth. orgSign up for my veg nutrition blog at:JackNorrisRD. com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 Here are some: http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/soy Elaine Horn [elaine.ask77] Sorry to change the subject. I wonder if anyone knows of articles or links where I can have more info with regards to soy products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Thank you all for the info. Elaine Jack Norris <jacknorrisElaine Horn <elaine.ask77; Sam Halsey <samhalseyCc: Sent: Sat, January 30, 2010 11:53:54 PMRE: vitamin D2 Here are some: http://www.veganhea lth.org/articles /soy Elaine Horn [elaine. ask77 ] Sorry to change the subject. I wonder if anyone knows of articles or links where I can have more info with regards to soy products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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