planet raw is backwards = planet war

February 21, 2010

The issue here is not that the restaurant was closed (even though Planet Raw's website claims their Pleasant Hill location is open from 11am - 8pm: no mention of mid-day closures). The issue is the unprovoked rudeness of a chef who berated customers for wanting to spend money at her place of business -- and give them free publicity in the Bay Area's premiere vegan food guide. Such behavior is inexcusable and absolutely unacceptable under any circumstances.

Personally, based on Tammy & Chris' experience, I'll be boycotting Planet Raw -- I don't care how spectacular their ravioli is. If this restaurant wants the veg community's support, then they need to:

1) issue a public apology, and 2) discipline this chef so that she never, ever verbally abuses another customer. Otherwise, Planet Raw deserves to go out of business, because they're giving vegans a bad name. That's just my opinion.

I have cc'd Planet Raw on this email, so we'll see if they have anything to say about this incident, and how they intend to fix the situation. I encourage others to hold this restaurant accountable for their chef's actions by contacting them at planetrawph or (925) 849-4500.

Mat Thomaswww.animalrighter.orgOn Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:36 PM, sunny_outdoors <sunny_outdoors wrote:

a friend showed up on a weekday afternoon awhile ago and found it closed. he called the next day, and was told they sometimes use the slack midday period to prep to enable faster dinner service. they expected to hire an extra person soon, so they didn't want to publicize shorter hours. regardless, it seems best to call.

also, that friend said Planet Raw's ravioli was spectacular!

==

The SF Living Foods will have 20 people pay $30 to eat a preset menu. That will go faster since everything will 100% ready by the time we arrive.

==

changing the subject

SUNNY VIBRATIONS

The Vegan Truck on 20th and Dolores in SF. I would suggest to call ahead of time to make sure it is there. He is trying to have a set time, but it's been tough having to shop for more groceries almost every other day.

He will change his hours to open only 5 days a week. (I don't know the exact days.)

He's definately open on Weekends from 1 to 3pm if you're in area, swing by. You can even use his free wifi.

winnie, (I am not affiliate with this business)

, " Tammy " <tammy wrote:

>

> Hi folks

>

> Does a business deserve to be held to a lesser standard of customer service

> simply because they are all veg?

>

February 22, 2010

Boy, I’ll bet Carol (or whomever the offending chef was)

figures she had her freak-out at exactly the WRONG moment! Most business owners

would be climbing under a rock in her situation.

So, she really messed up. She may be a bad person, or a bad

business person, or simply neurotic. She would not be the first hot-headed

chef, for sure! And, the restaurant industry is tough. Plus, doing raw out here

in CoCo County must be even tougher. I’m in Concord and my choices for purchased

organic veggies are very limited. I’m lucky when I find a restaurant out

here that has anything meat-free on the menu AT ALL (including the salads),

aside from sushi bars! The restaurant culture out here is backward, and geared

toward good old boy tastes. (Sorry, don’t mean to offend anyone). Even

Whole Foods in Walnut Creek carries WAY less vegan products then stores in

Oakl. and Berk. It is very frustrating to be veg out here.

So I was quite surprised to hear Planet Raw was opening in

Pleasant Hill. Frankly, I was surprised they opened here, period, and with so

little fanfare. No big announcements or anything. Something didn’t seem

quite right. And, it is surprising with the connection to Julianno, who is a

very successful restaurateur.

Anyway, maybe the lady was having a really crap day, and maybe

she just messed up very badly at the wrong moment, she is a fallible human like

most of us, and maybe it’s still worth taking a breath and giving them a

break, the benefit of the doubt, and seeing if others have a better experience…

It does seem like they are operating on a modest scale…so

maybe they’re struggling and the food is good, and hopefully the attitude

will be better.

But what do I know

Beautiful day, isn’t it?

Cheers,

Jillian

On Behalf Of Mat

Thomas

Sunday, February 21, 2010 1:15 PM

Cc: planetrawph

Re: Re: planet raw is backwards => planet war

The issue here is not that the

restaurant was closed (even though Planet

Raw's website claims their Pleasant Hill location is open from 11am - 8pm:

no mention of mid-day closures). The issue is the unprovoked rudeness of a chef

who berated customers for wanting to spend money at her place of business --

and give them free publicity in the Bay Area's premiere vegan

food guide. Such behavior is inexcusable and absolutely unacceptable under

any circumstances.

Personally, based on Tammy & Chris' experience, I'll be boycotting Planet

Raw -- I don't care how spectacular their ravioli is. If this restaurant

wants the veg community's support, then they need to:

1) issue a public apology, and

2) discipline this chef so that she never, ever verbally abuses another

customer.

Otherwise, Planet Raw deserves to go out of business, because they're giving

vegans a bad name. That's just my opinion. I have cc'd Planet Raw on this

email, so we'll see if they have anything to say about this incident, and how

they intend to fix the situation. I encourage others to hold this restaurant

accountable for their chef's actions by contacting them at planetrawph or (925)

849-4500.

Mat Thomas

www.animalrighter.org

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 10:36 PM, sunny_outdoors <sunny_outdoors wrote:

a friend showed up on a weekday afternoon awhile

ago and found it closed. he called the next day, and was told they sometimes

use the slack midday period to prep to enable faster dinner service. they

expected to hire an extra person soon, so they didn't want to publicize shorter

hours. regardless, it seems best to call.

also, that friend said Planet Raw's ravioli was spectacular!

==

The SF Living Foods will have 20 people pay $30 to eat a preset menu. That will

go faster since everything will 100% ready by the time we arrive.

==

changing the subject

SUNNY VIBRATIONS

The Vegan Truck on 20th and Dolores in SF. I would suggest to call ahead of

time to make sure it is there. He is trying to have a set time, but it's been

tough having to shop for more groceries almost every other day.

He will change his hours to open only 5 days a week. (I don't know the exact

days.)

He's definately open on Weekends from 1 to 3pm if you're in area, swing by. You

can even use his free wifi.

winnie, (I am not affiliate with this business)

,

" Tammy " <tammy wrote:

>

> Hi folks

>

> Does a business deserve to be held to a lesser standard of customer

service

> simply because they are all veg?

>

February 22, 2010

Hi folks

I wanted to reply to Jillian's comment: "Boy, I’ll bet Carol (or whomever the offending chef was) figures she had her freak-out at exactly the WRONG moment! Most business owners would be climbing under a rock in her situation."

Her sister Valerie has contacted me via yelp and apologized. Another customer who likes the restaurant emailed and apologized to me.

But to date, Carol has been mute. This inaction speaks as loud as her words did in regards to her attitude towards her customers.

I agree with what Mat said, that "they're giving vegans a bad name."

Cheers,

Tammy

Join us at an upcoming Bay Area Vegetarians event!

02/28 Vegan Food Party plus Secrets of Vegan Baking Presentation - Pacifica 03/13 Food for Thought Book Club: Slaughterhouse by Gail Eisnitz - Berkeley 03/27 Secrets of Vegan Baking: The Chocolate Trio - San Mateo 04/24 Secrets of Vegan Baking: Berry Sweets - San Mateo

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February 23, 2010

Hi Tammy,Although I generally agree with Mat, I completely disagree with his statement that "They're giving vegans a bad name." If I get treated rudely at a Japanese restaurant does that give the Japanese a bad name? If it's at Cha-Ya, then does it give vegans and Japanese folks BOTH a bad name? (And for the record, I've had nothing but great food and great service at Cha-Ya. Just using them to make a point.) It completely sucks that you drove all that way to be on the receiving end of this woman's outburst and if she is indeed the co-owner, there isn't a chance in hell that I'd go near that restaurant. That said, she doesn't represent vegans. No individual does. There's an old Yiddush saying "a shonda for the goyim" which basically translates to "an embarrassment for the

Jews. A perfect recent high profile example is Bernie Madoff. The thinking is that because he's Jewish, it's a reflection of all Jews who must be behind the ponzi scheme. This kind of thinking is dangerous and based on the false premise that because a person who identifies him or herself as Jewish, vegan, Japanese, Democrat, Republican, atheist, carnivore, gay,...pick one or more...then it makes those people look bad. Rubbish. The actions of an individual are simply that. They make the individual look bad, but that's the extent of it.The exception is when an individual owns or represents a company or organization. So as the co-owner of the restaurant, it is most definitely a reflection of the restaurant and it ends there. Do John Mackey and Ingrid Newkirk give vegans a bad name? No, but as the heads of their respective companies, their statements and actions certainly affect how people choose to deal, or not deal with those companies. (Again,

I'm using them as an example since both have a habit of saying things that are controversial to vegans and non-vegans alike.)It's time to put that "bad name" thinking aside and see it for the bigotry it is. And to answer your question from your original email on this topic, vegan businesses should be held to the same standards as any other business. While we both want to see vegan businesses succeed, they should succeed because they deliver great quality and service. Too bad Planet Raw doesn't have a clue about the service part.-RobTammy <tammyJillian Steinberger <Jillian; Sent: Mon, February 22, 2010 9:19:12 PMRE: Re: planet raw is backwards => planet war

I agree with what Mat said, that "they're giving vegans a bad name."

Cheers,

Tammy

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest â€¢ Un â€¢ Terms of Use

.

February 23, 2010

Rob, Planet Raw is definitely giving vegans a bad name. Maybe you believe that " (the chef) doesn't represent vegans. No individual does, " but whether you like it or not, many -- perhaps most -- people do make inaccurate generalizations about entire social groups based on the actions of individuals. I certainly don't, but it's undeniable that prejudice remains prevalent in our society and others.

To illustrate: let's say some meat eaters decide to try their first vegan restaurant, head out to Pleasant Hill, and wind up being treated the way Tammy & Chris were by Planet Raw's chef. There are relatively few vegans in the world, so this may well be the first vegan they ever meet. It's very easy to imagine that, having been so insulted, they might assume that all vegans are just as rude & obnoxious based on their interaction with a single one. That certainly wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

And as far as John Mackey and Ingrid Newkirk are concerned, if you seriously believe that many people don't base their opinions of all vegans on the actions and statements of the most famous ones, then you're not living in the real world.

Now I only write this, Rob, because you've publicly accused me of " bigotry " based on your total misreading and distortion of what I wrote. Real classy, that. Everyone knows I just love being incriminated in community forums for offenses that I'm not guilty of -- it really makes my day!

Finally, BAVeg readers will note that it's been two full days since I cc'd Planet Raw on my original email stating they should issue an open apology. As far as I know, still no response from them, as of yet. I guess that means they see nothing wrong with their chef's actions, and that they don't care what their customers think. But hey, if they want to have a chef with manners like the Soup Nazi, that's really their business: it's ours to decide whether they deserve our support.

Mat Thomaswww.animalrighter.orgOn Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:42 AM, soy boy <soyboyincali wrote:

Hi Tammy,Although I generally agree with Mat, I completely disagree with his statement that " They're giving vegans a bad name. " If I get treated rudely at a Japanese restaurant does that give the Japanese a bad name? If it's at Cha-Ya, then does it give vegans and Japanese folks BOTH a bad name? (And for the record, I've had nothing but great food and great service at Cha-Ya. Just using them to make a point.)

It completely sucks that you drove all that way to be on the receiving end of this woman's outburst and if she is indeed the co-owner, there isn't a chance in hell that I'd go near that restaurant. That said, she doesn't represent vegans. No individual does.

There's an old Yiddush saying " a shonda for the goyim " which basically translates to " an embarrassment for the

Jews. A perfect recent high profile example is Bernie Madoff. The thinking is that because he's Jewish, it's a reflection of all Jews who must be behind the ponzi scheme. This kind of thinking is dangerous and based on the false premise that because a person who identifies him or herself as Jewish, vegan, Japanese, Democrat, Republican, atheist, carnivore, gay,...pick one or more...then it makes those people look bad. Rubbish. The actions of an individual are simply that. They make the individual look bad, but that's the extent of it.

The exception is when an individual owns or represents a company or organization. So as the co-owner of the restaurant, it is most definitely a reflection of the restaurant and it ends there. Do John Mackey and Ingrid Newkirk give vegans a bad name? No, but as the heads of their respective companies, their statements and actions certainly affect how people choose to deal, or not deal with those companies. (Again,

I'm using them as an example since both have a habit of saying things that are controversial to vegans and non-vegans alike.)It's time to put that " bad name " thinking aside and see it for the bigotry it is. And to answer your question from your original email on this topic, vegan businesses should be held to the same standards as any other business. While we both want to see vegan businesses succeed, they should succeed because they deliver great quality and service. Too bad Planet Raw doesn't have a clue about the service part.

-Rob

Tammy <tammyJillian Steinberger <Jillian;

Mon, February 22, 2010 9:19:12 PMRE: Re: planet raw is backwards => planet war

I agree with what Mat said, that " they're giving vegans a bad name. "

Cheers,

Tammy

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Un • Terms of Use

.

February 23, 2010

Mat,

I'm not saying that this sort of generalization doesn't exist. I see examples of it on a regular basis, and I'm simply saying that it is time

to stop it. You say you don't engage in it, yet you are the one who wrote "they're giving vegans a bad name." What you're saying now, is that to some people, like those in your hypothetical situation, it gives

vegans a bad name. You're telling me that that isn't bigotry?

I'm aware that many people base their opinions of vegans on Ingrid Newkirk and others. That doesn't make those opinions true, that doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it any less discriminatory.

I didn't misread what you wrote, on the contrary, I believe you didn't write what you meant. You now say you were referring to others, but there was no indication of that in

your original reply. Where did I distort what you wrote? As a writer, you know the importance of clarity. Is it possible you were not clear that you were referring to others, not yourself? If the answer is yes, then I didn't accuse you of bigotry and you'd have to find someone else to make your day. Before you accuse me of not living in the real world (well, you kind of already did), I never said that people don't base their opinions of all vegans on the actions and statements of a few. As vegans we see way too much of that and what I am saying is that we should not be engaging in it. -Rob

Mat Thomas <ma>soy boy <soyboyincaliCc: ; planetrawphSent: Tue, February 23, 2010 11:53:20 AMRe: Re: planet raw is backwards => planet war

Rob, Planet Raw is definitely giving vegans a bad name. Maybe you believe that "(the chef) doesn't represent vegans. No individual does," but whether you like it or not, many -- perhaps most -- people do make inaccurate generalizations about entire social groups based on the actions of individuals. I certainly don't, but it's undeniable that prejudice remains prevalent in our society and others.

To illustrate: let's say some meat eaters decide to try their first vegan restaurant, head out to Pleasant Hill, and wind up being treated the way Tammy & Chris were by Planet Raw's chef. There are relatively few vegans in the world, so this may well be the first vegan they ever meet. It's very easy to imagine that, having been so insulted, they might assume that all vegans are just as rude & obnoxious based on their interaction with a single one. That certainly wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

And as far as John Mackey and Ingrid Newkirk are concerned, if you seriously believe that many people don't base their opinions of all vegans on the actions and statements of the most famous ones, then you're not living in the real world.

Now I only write this, Rob, because you've publicly accused me of "bigotry" based on your total misreading and distortion of what I wrote. Real classy, that. Everyone knows I just love being incriminated in community forums for offenses that I'm not guilty of -- it really makes my day!

Finally, BAVeg readers will note that it's been two full days since I cc'd Planet Raw on my original email stating they should issue an open apology. As far as I know, still no response from them, as of yet. I guess that means they see nothing wrong with their chef's actions, and that they don't care what their customers think. But hey, if they want to have a chef with manners like the Soup Nazi, that's really their business: it's ours to decide whether they deserve our support.

Mat Thomaswww.animalrighter.orgOn Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:42 AM, soy boy <soyboyincali wrote:

Hi Tammy,Although I generally agree with Mat, I completely disagree with his statement that "They're giving vegans a bad name." If I get treated rudely at a Japanese restaurant does that give the Japanese a bad name? If it's at Cha-Ya, then does it give vegans and Japanese folks BOTH a bad name? (And for the record, I've had nothing but great food and great service at Cha-Ya. Just using them to make a point.)

It completely sucks that you drove all that way to be on the receiving end of this woman's outburst and if she is indeed the co-owner, there isn't a chance in hell that I'd go near that restaurant. That said, she doesn't represent vegans. No individual does.

There's an old Yiddush saying "a shonda for the goyim" which basically translates to "an embarrassment for the

Jews. A perfect recent high profile example is Bernie Madoff. The thinking is that because he's Jewish, it's a reflection of all Jews who must be behind the ponzi scheme. This kind of thinking is dangerous and based on the false premise that because a person who identifies him or herself as Jewish, vegan, Japanese, Democrat, Republican, atheist, carnivore, gay,...pick one or more...then it makes those people look bad. Rubbish. The actions of an individual are simply that. They make the individual look bad, but that's the extent of it.

The exception is when an individual owns or represents a company or organization. So as the co-owner of the restaurant, it is most definitely a reflection of the restaurant and it ends there. Do John Mackey and Ingrid Newkirk give vegans a bad name? No, but as the heads of their respective companies, their statements and actions certainly affect how people choose to deal, or not deal with those companies. (Again,

I'm using them as an example since both have a habit of saying things that are controversial to vegans and non-vegans alike.)It's time to put that "bad name" thinking aside and see it for the bigotry it is. And to answer your question from your original email on this topic, vegan businesses should be held to the same standards as any other business. While we both want to see vegan businesses succeed, they should succeed because they deliver great quality and service. Too bad Planet Raw doesn't have a clue about the service part.

-Rob

Tammy <tammyJillian Steinberger <Jillian;

Mon, February 22, 2010 9:19:12 PMRE: Re: planet raw is backwards => planet war

I agree with what Mat said, that "they're giving vegans a bad name."

Cheers,

Tammy

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest â€¢ Un â€¢ Terms of Use

.

February 23, 2010

In practical terms: Planet Raw can’t be giving vegans a

bad name because almost nobody knows about it.

Best,

Jillian

On Behalf Of Mat

Thomas

Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:53 AM

soy boy

Cc: ; planetrawph

Re: Re: planet raw is backwards => planet war

Rob, Planet Raw is definitely giving

vegans a bad name. Maybe you believe that " (the chef) doesn't

represent vegans. No individual does, " but whether you like it or not,

many -- perhaps most -- people do make inaccuate generalizations about

entire social groups based on the actions of individuals. I certainly

don't, but it's undeniable that prejudice remains prevalent in our society and

others.

To illustrate: let's say some meat eaters decide to try their first vegan

restaurant, head out to Pleasant Hill, and wind up being treated the way Tammy

& Chris were by Planet Raw's chef. There are relatively few vegans in the

world, so this may well be the first vegan they ever meet. It's very easy to

imagine that, having been so insulted, they might assume that all vegans

are just as rude & obnoxious based on their interaction with a single one.

That certainly wouldn't be the first time that's happened.

And as far as John Mackey and Ingrid Newkirk are concerned, if you seriously

believe that many people don't base their opinions of all vegans

on the actions and statements of the most famous ones, then you're not living

in the real world.

Now I only write this, Rob, because you've publicly accused me of

" bigotry " based on your total misreading and distortion of what I

wrote. Real classy, that. Everyone knows I just love being incriminated

in community forums for offenses that I'm not guilty of -- it really makes my

day!

Finally, BAVeg readers will note that it's been two full days since I cc'd

Planet Raw on my original email stating they should issue an open apology. As

far as I know, still no response from them, as of yet. I guess that means they

see nothing wrong with their chef's actions, and that they don't care what

their customers think. But hey, if they want to have a chef with manners like the Soup Nazi,

that's really their business: it's ours to decide whether they deserve our

support.

Mat Thomas

www.animalrighter.org

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 10:42 AM, soy boy <soyboyincali

wrote:

Hi Tammy,

Although I generally agree with Mat, I completely disagree with his statement

that " They're giving vegans a bad name. " If I get treated rudely at a

Japanese restaurant does that give the Japanese a bad name? If it's at Cha-Ya,

then does it give vegans and Japanese folks BOTH a bad name? (And for the

record, I've had nothing but great food and great service at Cha-Ya. Just using

them to make a point.)

It completely sucks that you drove all that way to be on the receiving end of

this woman's outburst and if she is indeed the co-owner, there isn't a chance

in hell that I'd go near that restaurant. That said, she doesn't represent

vegans. No individual does.

There's an old Yiddush saying " a shonda for the goyim " which

basically translates to " an embarrassment for the Jews. A perfect recent

high profile example is Bernie Madoff. The thinking is that because he's

Jewish, it's a reflection of all Jews who must be behind the ponzi scheme. This

kind of thinking is dangerous and based on the false premise that because a

person who identifies him or herself as Jewish, vegan, Japanese, Democrat,

Republican, atheist, carnivore, gay,...pick one or more...then it makes those

people look bad. Rubbish. The actions of an individual are simply that. They

make the individual look bad, but that's the extent of it.

The exception is when an individual owns or represents a company or organization.

So as the co-owner of the restaurant, it is most definitely a reflection of the

restaurant and it ends there. Do John Mackey and Ingrid Newkirk give vegans a

bad name? No, but as the heads of their respective companies, their statements

and actions certainly affect how people choose to deal, or not deal with those

companies. (Again, I'm using them as an example since both have a habit of

saying things that are controversial to vegans and non-vegans alike.)

It's time to put that " bad name " thinking aside and see it for the

bigotry it is. And to answer your question from your original email on this

topic, vegan businesses should be held to the same standards as any other

business. While we both want to see vegan businesses succeed, they should

succeed because they deliver great quality and service. Too bad Planet Raw

doesn't have a clue about the service part.

-Rob

Tammy <tammy

Jillian Steinberger <Jillian;

Mon, February 22, 2010 9:19:12 PM

RE: Re: planet raw is backwards => planet war

I agree with what Mat

said, that " they're giving vegans a bad name. "

Cheers,

Tammy

Error!

Filename not specified.

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest •

Un

• Terms of Use

..

Error! Filename not specified.

February 23, 2010

Rob,It's pretty clear to me that Mat and Tammy are missing the larger picture here: This chef is giving women a bad name. "Everyone" knows women can be irrational at times, and this chef is only reinforcing that stereotype...OK, that sounds pretty silly, doesn't it. But it is the exact same logic as being used about the chef and vegans. Where does it end?Greg--- On Tue, 2/23/10, soy boy <soyboyincali wrote:soy boy <soyboyincaliRe: Re: planet raw is backwards => planet war"Mat Thomas" <ma>Cc: Date: Tuesday,

February 23, 2010, 12:26 PM

Mat,

I'm not saying that this sort of generalization doesn't exist. I see examples of it on a regular basis, and I'm simply saying that it is time

to stop it. You say you don't engage in it, yet you are the one who wrote "they're giving vegans a bad name." What you're saying now, is that to some people, like those in your hypothetical situation, it gives

vegans a bad name. You're telling me that that isn't bigotry?

I'm aware that many people base their opinions of vegans on Ingrid Newkirk and others. That doesn't make those opinions true, that doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it any less discriminatory.

I didn't misread what you wrote, on the contrary, I believe you didn't write what you meant. You now say you were referring to others, but there was no indication of that in

your original reply. Where did I distort what you wrote? As a writer, you know the importance of clarity. Is it possible you were not clear that you were referring to others, not yourself? If the answer is yes, then I didn't accuse you of bigotry and you'd have to find someone else to make your day. Before you accuse me of not living in the real world (well, you kind of already did), I never said that people don't base their opinions of all vegans on the actions and statements of a few. As vegans we see way too much of that and what I am saying is that we should not be engaging in it. -Rob

February 23, 2010

Yes, it's bigotry to make assumptions about people (based on their dietary preferences, the color of their skin, etc.), but you're just arguing semantics now. If you somehow got from my post that I'm prejudiced because I stated that Planet Raw " is giving vegans a bad name, " then you're reading something into what I wrote that's absolutely not there.

And if for whatever reason you thought I wouldn't be offended at being accused of bigotry, you were very mistaken. That's a serious charge, and you had no right to make it -- despite your opinion that my writing lacks clarity. You made an unwarranted assumption and jumped to a false conclusion about me based on the meanings you projected onto a common phrase that really doesn't need any explanation. And that's somehow my fault?!

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:26 PM, soy boy <soyboyincali wrote:

Mat,

I'm not saying that this sort of generalization doesn't exist. I see examples of it on a regular basis, and I'm simply saying that it is time

to stop it. You say you don't engage in it, yet you are the one who wrote " they're giving vegans a bad name. " What you're saying now, is that to some people, like those in your hypothetical situation, it gives

vegans a bad name. You're telling me that that isn't bigotry?

I'm aware that many people base their opinions of vegans on Ingrid Newkirk and others. That doesn't make those opinions true, that doesn't make it right and it doesn't make it any less discriminatory.

I didn't misread what you wrote, on the contrary, I believe you didn't write what you meant. You now say you were referring to others, but there was no indication of that in

your original reply. Where did I distort what you wrote? As a writer, you know the importance of clarity. Is it possible you were not clear that you were referring to others, not yourself? If the answer is yes, then I didn't accuse you of bigotry and you'd have to find someone else to make your day. Before you accuse me of not living in the real world (well, you kind of already did), I never said that people don't base their opinions of all vegans on the actions and statements of a few. As vegans we see way too much of that and what I am saying is that we should not be engaging in it.

-Rob

Mat Thomas <ma>soy boy <soyboyincali

Cc: ; planetrawph

Tue, February 23, 2010 11:53:20 AMRe: Re: planet raw is backwards => planet war