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Thanks, Steven.

 

Much of the material you provide is fine, some is outdated and/or

incomplete. The discussion about pernicious anemia is overblown and results

largely from medical misdirection, mistaking symptoms for causes, that sort

of thing. and the connection actually established by clinical research is

quite weak at best. Anemia is largely caused by other factors, particularly

excessive menstrual discharge in women, This, in turn is caused by a

combination of poor diet, stress, and the gargantuan shift in hormones in

the diet due to use of pesticides, particularly those with

estrogen-mimicking side effects. Women used to begin menstruating in their

mid-teens; now many American girls begin before age 10. The effects later in

life are just beginning to be identified but appear to be horrendous.

 

The effects of pesticides are actually far more serious than most people

realize. Pesticides in use today are more than 3,000 times stronger than

those first put into service back in 1946-1947. In fact, inability to

continue this trend (making ever-stronger pesticides) is the primary

commercial motivation behind the big genetic engineering push. The first

goal has been to create bug-resistant and even pesticide-resistant plants.

 

Pesticides contribute directly to B-12 depletion by annihilating the

bacteria IN THE SOIL that produce the B-12. This has been demonstrated now

on more than one occasion, particularly by a researcher in France.

 

Further, rising pesticide use is the most highly correlated factor with

increasing male impotency in the U.S. This has been true in analysis of date

from EVERY year since the first widespread use of pesticides in 1947. In

fact, if we continue, some scientists believe we have a potentially

extinction-level situation.

 

Finally, returning to my recommendation, I merely suggested getting good

data on the state of B-12 in one's body before taking any supplements. If we

consume more of something than we need, we create a situation where our body

must expend valuable resources to eliminate that excess and/or store the

material for later elimination.

 

This seems prudent to me.

 

Best, and thanks again for bringing all this great information to light.

Elchanan

 

 

Steven [rawfasting]

Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:48 PM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Supplements, B-12

 

 

Elchanan...

 

 

 

You may want to consider this in your B12 recommendations!

 

 

 

Best to you!

 

 

 

Steven

 

 

 

_______________

 

 

 

Vitamin B12 / Cyanocobalamin (Page 1)

 

 

 

Excerpt from and my appreciation to:

 

 

 

The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.bartleby.com/65/vi/vitamin.html

 

 

 

vitamin:

 

 

 

 

 

A group of organic substances that are required in the diet of humans and

animals for normal growth, maintenance of life, and normal reproduction...

 

 

 

 

 

If viewed at above web-page linked above, scroll down to section #16 to see

Vitamin B12

 

 

 

 

 

Vitamin B12

 

 

 

The molecular structure of vitamin B12 vitamin. B12 (cobalamin), the most

complex of all known vitamins, was announced in 1955 by several scientists,

including British biochemists A. R. Todd and Dorothy Hodgkin. In 1973 the

vitamin was reported to have been synthesized by organic chemists. Vitamin

B12 and closely related cobalamins are necessary for folic acid to fulfill

its role; both are involved in the synthesis of proteins. American

physicians G. R. Minot and W. P. Murphy in 1926 fed large amounts of liver

to patients with pernicious anemia and cured them; the curative substance in

this case was probably vitamin B12. However, pernicious anemia in humans is

caused not by a vitamin B12 deficiency in the diet but rather the absence of

a substance called the intrinsic factor, ordinarily secreted by the stomach

and responsible for facilitating the absorption of B12 from the intestine.

When a person's body cannot produce the intrinsic factor, the standard

treatment today is to inject vitamin B12 directly into the bloodstream.

Minot and Murphy's therapy worked because the liver they fed their patients

contained such large quantities of B12 that sufficient amounts of the

vitamin were absorbed without the assistance of the intrinsic factor.

Inadequate absorption of B12 causes pernicious anemia, nervous system

degeneration, and amenorrhea. The only site of cobalamin synthesis in nature

appears to be in microorganisms*; neither animals nor higher plants are

capable of making these vitamin B12 derivatives. Nevertheless, such animal

tissues as the liver, kidney, and heart of ruminants contain relatively

large quantities of vitamin B12; the vitamin stored in these organs was

originally produced by the (Cyano-) bacteria in the ruminant gut. Bivalves

(clams or oysters), which siphon microorganisms* from the sea, are also good

sources. Plants, on the other hand, are poor sources of (concentrated)**

vitamin B12. The recommended daily dietary allowance for adults is 3 (? see

all below) micrograms.

 

 

 

 

 

Inoculations destroy the Stomach and GI Track and cause Intrisic factor.

 

 

 

My notes and added information for above:

 

 

 

 

 

microorganisms*

 

 

 

* Cyanocobalamin - Vitamin B12 producing bacteria are in the Cyanobacterium

(algae, moses) family. This class of microorganisms are bacteria that

generally require and live in the sunlight and/or oxygenated environment of

the plant surfaces, roots, upper soils and in the waters (near surface).

They do not survive in the black dark anaerobic environment of interior

animal tissues -- though their exo- and endo-compounds (metabolic

excretions), including the vitamin B12 compound group, do and is accumulated

and concentrated in the herbivorous (plant material consuming) animal (in

fecal material, intestines, hence delivered into all body tissues, blood,

muscles, entrails, esp. liver and kidneys) and is also expressed (to manage

internal tissue levels) through and in body fluids (milk, mucus, urine) or

ova (eggs). There is some presumptions of data that pro ports they

(Cyanocobalamin bacteria) have some survival and production activity in the

(dissolved oxygen and plant nutrient available) gut (primarily gullet and

lower intestine) of herbivores / ruminants (e.g. cow, goat, horse, etc.)

animals. But it is well understood that the critically important source of

B12 in livestock (gen. ruminant) production is in your (unwashed, untreated)

silage (corn, grains, beet pulp, ferments) along with alfalfa and hay, wheat

grass, barley grass, where these plant loving cyano-bacteria flourish, then

enter into the consuming animal!

 

 

 

 

 

(concentrated**) -- my insertion to the Columbia Encyclopedia's text, 2nd to

last line above. God and nature has made no mistakes in providing sufficient

Vitamin B12 to billions of herbivorous animals over millions of millennia -

including the vegetarian primates (our biologically nearest creational

equivalents) and man! -- if he (man) makes the right dietary choices and

nourishes himself the way he was originally designed! -- that is: in and

from the garden! -- the perfect home of pure, uncontaminated, light, oxygen

and vegetation loving Cyanocobalamin in correct bounty, in low

concentrations, but sufficient for our needs!-- Not extorted from defiled,

destroyed, killed, disease hosting, disease transmitting and B12

hyper-concentrating animals -- especially carnivorous animals (as poultry,

pork, fish, etc.) which accumulate and concentrate even more B12 in their

tissue, fluids and ova at levels above and higher than the herbivorous

animals and/or the insects which they consume. Hence carnivores (including

man when he chooses to be such) do ultra-concentrate B12 in their tissues!

Hence in carnivorous man, a falsely high mean standard of B12 levels is

accumulated in phlebotomy data and is accepted as the human norm! -- Not

good or honest science!!! And that false high standard precipitates wrong

diagnosis! that is, lower test values of accumulated serum*** B12 levels --

which are naturally less in non-carnivorous humans and their dependent

nursing infants! They then are endangered with the unnecessary

administrations of (the sewage and/or animal harvested and formulated) B12

injections and/or tablets, with their plethora of contraindications (ill

side affects) possible in many recipient patients or wrongly treated

victims!

 

 

 

 

 

*** serum (blood stream) levels of B12 is not always a good indication of

true internal, intra-/inter-cellular, metabolic, B12 functional levels. It

is also (now) known that the cells are very conservative with B12; keeping

appropriate stores of it within the cells themselves, recycling it within

the intra-cellular (inside) chemistry and allowing only what is necessary in

inter-cellular (between cells) chemistry to be exported, hence not requiring

(as was previously presumed) high levels of B12 to be carried in blood flow

to replenish it. -- tlr 7/3/03

 

 

 

 

 

Standard medicine has seriously erred in violation of honored Koch

postulates and true scientific method, by producing unnatural high average

blood level standards for B12, and assuming them as the correct human mean

-- based upon hematological data accumulated and calculated in the

cross-section of primarily heavily carnivorous USA/Industrial world humans!

Not a true or honest measure for serum B12 levels for all of humanity, nor

for creation's biologically intended, apparent and correct human nutrition,

chemistry and physiology!

 

 

 

 

 

The original concern over Vitamin B12 deficiency (based on research started

before three quarters of a century ago and completed over a half century

ago) was a perceived relationship in poor health conditions called

" pernicious anima " (and other closely related neurological and physiological

malfunctions). It now has been established that the true cause of this group

of maladies is a failure in the bodies own ability to produce its own

correct " intrinsic factor " , a compound associated with B12's

intra/intercellular transport and use -- which is ill-formed in a

hydrochloric acid and bile abused (a condition specifically triggered by the

corrosive digestion required for complex, high molecular weight, dense

animal proteins and fats within a) malnourished, malfunctioning, or

chemically damaged (or rarely, a genetically flawed) intestinal tract --

rather than the old belief that the cause was (as presumed) a Vitamin B12

intake or (a test determined*) serum level deficiency!

 

 

 

 

 

-- This error in perception, diagnoses and treatment does persist, even to

date among too many non-current or incompletely educated health

practitioners, their older peers, administrations and dependent government

health and welfare agencies! -- tlr 7/2/03

 

 

 

 

 

*Remember, these test protocols and standards were determined over a half

century year ago, and also were based on generally highly carnivorous,

western human models.

 

 

 

----------

----

 

 

 

Personal references: Veterinary & Human Biology & Pathology education and

reference books / personal Human, Animal, Livestock and Marine (algae)

research and experience -- and required knowledge for good livestock

production and profit -- in my past.

 

 

 

I will try to improve upon and expand this page later as my resources/time

allow. In the meantime, you may see a reference to intestinal (microvilli)

repair at LDSVeg.org/Raw.htm#microvilli, and other intestine and whole body

healing and nutritional information on LifeSave.org, VeganCowboy.org,

WaterAndLife.org and our other subject specific sites (listed on

Lifesave.org and VeganCowboy.org)

 

 

 

TLR. 7/1/03

 

 

 

 

 

Appreciation to my wife and family:

 

 

 

Constructing this page has taken more than three full days away from family

and real income producing work (which also goes to cover this labors total

costs including the necessary ongoing internet debts). This required the

confirming in all my old references, personal texts and notes from forty

years education and experience back; then the time and concentration to

ponder, recheck my supporting data, organize, write, edit, rewrite re-edit

-- and I am probably still not finished with refining it for you! My hope

is you will be benefited, have correct knowledge, prove it yourself as is

possible, and that you will appreciate this labor and sacrifice (especially

that which affects and leaves my family short) for you, the reader! -- tlr

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

INFO @ Vibrant Life [VLinfo]

Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:33 PM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Supplements, B-12

Hi Susan,

Every question is an honorable and noble inquiry in pursuit of growth and

self-improvement. Repetition affords us the opportunity to reinforce what we

have already leaned and to offer variances in perspective.

In general, use of supplements is a tacit admission that one's current diet

(or an author's recommended diet) does not work.

Nutrients in plants come by the thousands and tens of thousands. They are

balanced in proportion to one another in perfect combinations we cannot even

begin to notice, much less unravel.

In contrast, nutrients in boxes and bottles come a few at a time, in

whatever combination is convenient and cost-effective for the manufacturer.

So from my perspective, it's food 10, supplements, zero.

B-12 is the one exception cited even by some people who generally eschew

supplements. B-12 is the largest and most complex of the vitamins, and to my

knowledge " modern science " can only grow it, not synthesize it, at least as

of the present.

B-12 is bacteria poop and occurs quite naturally wherever certain bacteria

are present. As a result, manufacture of certain antibiotics (penicillin,

streptomycin) yields a supply of B-12.

ONLY TAKE A B-12 SUPPLEMENT IF YOU REALLY NEED IT. YOUR FRIENDS AND MOST OF

YOUR TEACHERS HAVE NO EARTHLY IDEA WHETHER THIS IS SO, unless one of them

actually happens to have access to blood testing apparatus and knows what to

do with the results.

If you do choose to take a B-12 supplement, choose a sublingual variety

(liquid, under the tongue) for fastest and least disruptive absorption. And

you only need a little -- current estimates are that we need about 1

microgram (one millionth of a gram) per day. And our system can store

surplus B-12 for future use, unlike some vitamins.

However, there another and MUCH better solution than any form of

supplements. Search out farmers who compost extensively. There soil, and the

foods grown in that soil, will contain B-12, at least after they've done it

for a couple of years. This occurs because composting nurtures the

biological wealth -- the life, the living organisms -- in the soil. And it

is this biological life that actually produces many of the nutrients we

need. This is one (of several) reasons why use of pesticides is SO damaging

to the food supply.

Best to all,

Elchanan

Susan [sdmendell]

Wednesday, March 09, 2005 6:53 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Supplements

I apologize if this topic has already been discussed...I am new to

this group and to living foods in general. I am just wondering how

folks feel about supplements. After being a vegetarian for years, I

got tired of people telling me that I had to worry about not getting

enough B12 in my diet. So, I looked into buying a B12 supplement and

discovered that they were made out of seashells. And I am sure that

they weren't just seashells lying around the beach. Creatures were

most likely killed to get those shells. I heard that you could get

synthisized B12 somehwere, but how good could that be? Anyway, any

opinions will be appreciated.

Susan

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Guest guest

I was interested to read this about anemia. A friend of mine was just

diagnosed with " chronic anemia " . It is very serious. They put him in

hospital and are giving him transfusions. Since he is male, are you able to

tell me what possible causes there are for something like this. So far they

are saying it could be bone marrow problems or a parasite. Thankyou, Lane

 

Thanks, Steven. <BR>

<BR>

Much of the material you provide is fine, some is outdated and/or<BR>

incomplete. The discussion about pernicious anemia is overblown and

results<BR>

largely from medical misdirection, mistaking symptoms for causes, that

sort<BR>

of thing. and the connection actually established by clinical research

is<BR>

quite weak at best. Anemia is largely caused by other factors,

particularly<BR>

excessive menstrual discharge in women, This, in turn is caused by a<BR>

combination of poor diet, stress, and the gargantuan shift in hormones

in<BR>

the diet due to use of pesticides, particularly those with<BR>

estrogen-mimicking side effects. Women used to begin menstruating in

their<BR>

mid-teens; now many American girls begin before age 10. The effects later

in<BR>

life are just beginning to be identified but appear to be horrendous. <BR>

<BR>

The effects of pesticides are actually far more serious than most

people<BR>

realize. Pesticides in use today are more than 3,000 times stronger

than<BR>

those first put into service back in 1946-1947. In fact, inability to<BR>

continue this trend (making ever-stronger pesticides) is the primary<BR>

commercial motivation behind the big genetic engineering push. The

first<BR>

goal has been to create bug-resistant and even pesticide-resistant

plants.<BR>

<BR>

Pesticides contribute directly to B-12 depletion by annihilating the<BR>

bacteria IN THE SOIL that produce the B-12. This has been demonstrated

now<BR>

on more than one occasion, particularly by a researcher in France. <BR>

<BR>

Further, rising pesticide use is the most highly correlated factor with<BR>

increasing male impotency in the U.S. This has been true in analysis of

date<BR>

from EVERY year since the first widespread use of pesticides in 1947.

In<BR>

fact, if we continue, some scientists believe we have a potentially<BR>

extinction-level situation.  <BR>

<BR>

Finally, returning to my recommendation, I merely suggested getting

good<BR>

data on the state of B-12 in one's body before taking any supplements. If

we<BR>

consume more of something than we need, we create a situation where our

body<BR>

must expend valuable resources to eliminate that excess and/or store

the<BR>

material for later elimination.<BR>

<BR>

This seems prudent to me.<BR>

<BR>

Best, and thanks again for bringing all this great information to

light.<BR>

Elchanan<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Steven [rawfasting] <BR>

Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:48 PM<BR>

rawfood <BR>

RE: [Raw Food] Supplements, B-12<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Elchanan...<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

You may want to consider this in your B12 recommendations!<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Best to you!<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Steven<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

_______________<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Vitamin B12 / Cyanocobalamin    (Page 1) <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Excerpt from and my appreciation to: <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition.  2001. <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<a

href= " http://www.bartleby.com/65/vi/vitamin.html " >http://www.bartleby.com/6

5/vi/vitamin.html</a> <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

vitamin: <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

A group of organic substances that are required in the diet of humans

and<BR>

animals for normal growth, maintenance of life, and normal reproduction...

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

If viewed at above web-page linked above, scroll down to section #16 to

see<BR>

Vitamin B12 <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Vitamin B12 <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

The molecular structure of vitamin B12 vitamin. B12 (cobalamin), the

most<BR>

complex of all known vitamins, was announced in 1955 by several

scientists,<BR>

including British biochemists A. R. Todd and Dorothy Hodgkin. In 1973

the<BR>

vitamin was reported to have been synthesized by organic chemists.

Vitamin<BR>

B12 and closely related cobalamins are necessary for folic acid to

fulfill<BR>

its role; both are involved in the synthesis of proteins. American<BR>

physicians G. R. Minot and W. P. Murphy in 1926 fed large amounts of

liver<BR>

to patients with pernicious anemia and cured them; the curative substance

in<BR>

this case was probably vitamin B12. However, pernicious anemia in humans

is<BR>

caused not by a vitamin B12 deficiency in the diet but rather the absence

of<BR>

a substance called the intrinsic factor, ordinarily secreted by the

stomach<BR>

and responsible for facilitating the absorption of B12 from the

intestine.<BR>

When a person's body cannot produce the intrinsic factor, the standard<BR>

treatment today is to inject vitamin B12 directly into the bloodstream.<BR>

Minot and Murphy's therapy worked because the liver they fed their

patients<BR>

contained such large quantities of B12 that sufficient amounts of the<BR>

vitamin were absorbed without the assistance of the intrinsic factor.<BR>

Inadequate absorption of B12 causes pernicious anemia, nervous system<BR>

degeneration, and amenorrhea. The only site of cobalamin synthesis in

nature<BR>

appears to be in microorganisms*; neither animals nor higher plants are<BR>

capable of making these vitamin B12 derivatives. Nevertheless, such

animal<BR>

tissues as the liver, kidney, and heart of ruminants contain relatively<BR>

large quantities of vitamin B12; the vitamin stored in these organs was<BR>

originally produced by the (Cyano-) bacteria in the ruminant gut.

Bivalves<BR>

(clams or oysters), which siphon microorganisms* from the sea, are also

good<BR>

sources. Plants, on the other hand, are poor sources of

(concentrated)**<BR>

vitamin B12. The recommended daily dietary allowance for adults is 3 (?

see<BR>

all below) micrograms. <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Inoculations destroy the Stomach and GI Track and cause Intrisic

factor.<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

My notes and added information for above: <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

microorganisms* <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

* Cyanocobalamin - Vitamin B12 producing bacteria are in the

Cyanobacterium<BR>

(algae, moses) family. This class of microorganisms are bacteria that<BR>

generally require and live in the sunlight and/or oxygenated environment

of<BR>

the plant surfaces, roots, upper soils and in the waters (near

surface).<BR>

They do not survive in the black dark anaerobic environment of interior<BR>

animal tissues -- though their exo- and endo-compounds (metabolic<BR>

excretions), including the vitamin B12 compound group, do and is

accumulated<BR>

and concentrated in the herbivorous (plant material consuming) animal

(in<BR>

fecal material, intestines, hence delivered into all body tissues,

blood,<BR>

muscles, entrails, esp. liver and kidneys) and is also expressed (to

manage<BR>

internal tissue levels) through and in body fluids (milk, mucus, urine)

or<BR>

ova (eggs). There is some presumptions of data that pro ports they<BR>

(Cyanocobalamin bacteria) have some survival and production activity in

the<BR>

(dissolved oxygen and plant nutrient available) gut (primarily gullet

and<BR>

lower intestine) of herbivores / ruminants (e.g. cow, goat, horse,

etc.)<BR>

animals.  But it is well understood that the critically important source

of<BR>

B12 in livestock (gen. ruminant) production is in your (unwashed,

untreated)<BR>

silage (corn, grains, beet pulp, ferments) along with alfalfa and hay,

wheat<BR>

grass, barley grass,  where these plant loving cyano-bacteria flourish,

then<BR>

enter into the consuming animal! <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

(concentrated**) -- my insertion to the Columbia Encyclopedia's text, 2nd

to<BR>

last line above. God and nature has made no mistakes in providing

sufficient<BR>

Vitamin B12 to billions of herbivorous animals over millions of millennia

-<BR>

including the vegetarian primates (our biologically nearest creational<BR>

equivalents) and man! -- if he (man) makes the right dietary choices

and<BR>

nourishes himself the way he was originally designed! -- that is: in

and<BR>

from the garden! -- the perfect home of pure, uncontaminated, light,

oxygen<BR>

and vegetation loving Cyanocobalamin in correct bounty, in low<BR>

concentrations, but sufficient for our needs!-- Not extorted from

defiled,<BR>

destroyed, killed, disease hosting, disease transmitting and B12<BR>

hyper-concentrating animals -- especially carnivorous animals (as

poultry,<BR>

pork, fish, etc.) which accumulate and concentrate even more B12 in

their<BR>

tissue, fluids and ova at levels above and higher than the herbivorous<BR>

animals and/or the insects which they consume. Hence carnivores

(including<BR>

man when he chooses to be such) do ultra-concentrate B12 in their

tissues!<BR>

Hence in carnivorous man, a falsely high mean standard of B12 levels is<BR>

accumulated in phlebotomy data and is accepted as the human norm! --

Not<BR>

good or honest science!!!  And that false high standard precipitates

wrong<BR>

diagnosis! that is, lower test values of accumulated serum*** B12 levels

--<BR>

which are naturally less in non-carnivorous humans and their dependent<BR>

nursing infants! They then are endangered with the unnecessary<BR>

administrations of (the sewage and/or animal harvested and formulated)

B12<BR>

injections and/or tablets, with their plethora of contraindications

(ill<BR>

side affects) possible in many recipient patients or wrongly treated<BR>

victims! <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

*** serum (blood stream) levels of B12 is not always a good indication

of<BR>

true internal, intra-/inter-cellular, metabolic, B12 functional levels.

It<BR>

is also (now) known that the cells are very conservative with B12;

keeping<BR>

appropriate stores of it within the cells themselves, recycling it

within<BR>

the intra-cellular (inside) chemistry and allowing only what is necessary

in<BR>

inter-cellular (between cells) chemistry to be exported, hence not

requiring<BR>

(as was previously presumed) high levels of B12 to be carried in blood

flow<BR>

to replenish it.  -- tlr 7/3/03 <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Standard medicine has seriously erred in violation of honored Koch<BR>

postulates and true scientific method, by producing unnatural high

average<BR>

blood level standards for B12, and assuming them as the correct human 

mean<BR>

-- based upon hematological data accumulated and calculated in the<BR>

cross-section of primarily heavily carnivorous USA/Industrial world

humans!<BR>

Not a true or honest measure for serum B12 levels for all of humanity,

nor<BR>

for creation's biologically intended, apparent and correct human

nutrition,<BR>

chemistry and physiology!  <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

The original concern over Vitamin B12 deficiency (based on research

started<BR>

before three quarters of a century ago and completed over a half

century<BR>

ago) was a perceived relationship in poor health conditions called<BR>

" pernicious anima " (and other closely related neurological and

physiological<BR>

malfunctions). It now has been established that the true cause of this

group<BR>

of maladies is a failure in the bodies own ability to produce its own<BR>

correct " intrinsic factor " , a compound associated with B12's<BR>

intra/intercellular transport and use -- which is ill-formed  in a<BR>

hydrochloric acid and bile abused (a condition specifically triggered by

the<BR>

corrosive digestion required for complex, high molecular weight, dense<BR>

animal proteins and fats within a) malnourished, malfunctioning, or<BR>

chemically damaged (or rarely, a genetically flawed) intestinal tract

--<BR>

rather than the old belief that the cause was (as presumed) a Vitamin

B12<BR>

intake or (a test determined*) serum level deficiency!  <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

-- This error in perception, diagnoses and treatment does persist, even

to<BR>

date among too many non-current or incompletely educated health<BR>

practitioners, their older peers,  administrations and dependent

government<BR>

health and welfare agencies! -- tlr 7/2/03 <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

*Remember, these test protocols and standards were determined over a

half<BR>

century year ago, and also were based on generally highly carnivorous,<BR>

western human models. <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

---------

-<BR>

----<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Personal references: Veterinary & Human Biology & Pathology education

and<BR>

reference books / personal Human, Animal, Livestock and Marine (algae)<BR>

research and experience -- and required knowledge for good livestock<BR>

production and profit -- in my past. <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

I will try to improve upon and expand this page later as my

resources/time<BR>

allow. In the meantime, you may see a reference to intestinal

(microvilli)<BR>

repair at LDSVeg.org/Raw.htm#microvilli, and other intestine and whole

body<BR>

healing and nutritional information on LifeSave.org,  VeganCowboy.org,<BR>

WaterAndLife.org and our other subject specific sites (listed on<BR>

Lifesave.org and VeganCowboy.org) <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

TLR. 7/1/03 <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Appreciation to my wife and family:  <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Constructing this page has taken more than three full days away from

family<BR>

and real income producing work (which also goes to cover this labors

total<BR>

costs including the necessary ongoing internet debts). This required

the<BR>

confirming in all my old references, personal texts and notes from

forty<BR>

years education and experience back; then the time and concentration to<BR>

ponder, recheck my supporting data, organize, write, edit, rewrite

re-edit<BR>

-- and I am probably still not finished with refining it for you!  My

hope<BR>

is you will be benefited, have correct knowledge, prove it yourself as

is<BR>

possible, and that you will appreciate this labor and sacrifice

(especially<BR>

that which affects and leaves my family short) for you, the reader! --  tlr

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

INFO @ Vibrant Life [VLinfo] <BR>

Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:33 PM<BR>

rawfood <BR>

RE: [Raw Food] Supplements, B-12 <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Hi Susan, <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Every question is an honorable and noble inquiry in pursuit of growth

and<BR>

<BR>

self-improvement. Repetition affords us the opportunity to reinforce what

we<BR>

<BR>

have already leaned and to offer variances in perspective. <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

In general, use of supplements is a tacit admission that one's current

diet<BR>

<BR>

(or an author's recommended diet) does not work. <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Nutrients in plants come by the thousands and tens of thousands. They

are<BR>

<BR>

balanced in proportion to one another in perfect combinations we cannot

even<BR>

<BR>

begin to notice, much less unravel.<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

In contrast, nutrients in boxes and bottles come a few at a time, in<BR>

<BR>

whatever combination is convenient and cost-effective for the

manufacturer.<BR>

<BR>

So from my perspective, it's food 10, supplements, zero. <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

B-12 is the one exception cited even by some people who generally

eschew<BR>

<BR>

supplements. B-12 is the largest and most complex of the vitamins, and to

my<BR>

<BR>

knowledge " modern science " can only grow it, not synthesize it, at least

as<BR>

<BR>

of the present. <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

B-12 is bacteria poop and occurs quite naturally wherever certain

bacteria<BR>

<BR>

are present. As a result, manufacture of certain antibiotics

(penicillin,<BR>

<BR>

streptomycin) yields a supply of B-12. <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

ONLY TAKE A B-12 SUPPLEMENT IF YOU REALLY NEED IT. YOUR FRIENDS AND MOST

OF<BR>

<BR>

YOUR TEACHERS HAVE NO EARTHLY IDEA WHETHER THIS IS SO, unless one of

them<BR>

<BR>

actually happens to have access to blood testing apparatus and knows what

to<BR>

<BR>

do with the results. <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

If you do choose to take a B-12 supplement, choose a sublingual variety<BR>

<BR>

(liquid, under the tongue) for fastest and least disruptive absorption.

And<BR>

<BR>

you only need a little -- current estimates are that we need about 1<BR>

<BR>

microgram (one millionth of a gram) per day. And our system can store<BR>

<BR>

surplus B-12 for future use, unlike some vitamins.<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

However, there another and MUCH better solution than any form of<BR>

<BR>

supplements. Search out farmers who compost extensively. There soil, and

the<BR>

<BR>

foods grown in that soil, will contain B-12, at least after they've done

it<BR>

<BR>

for a couple of years. This occurs because composting nurtures the<BR>

<BR>

biological wealth -- the life, the living organisms -- in the soil. And

it<BR>

<BR>

is this biological life that actually produces many of the nutrients we<BR>

<BR>

need. This is one (of several) reasons why use of pesticides is SO

damaging<BR>

<BR>

to the food supply. <BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Best to all,<BR>

<BR>

Elchanan<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Susan [sdmendell] <BR>

<BR>

Wednesday, March 09, 2005 6:53 AM<BR>

<BR>

rawfood <BR>

<BR>

[Raw Food] Supplements<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

I apologize if this topic has already been discussed...I am new to <BR>

<BR>

this group and to living foods in general. I am just wondering how <BR>

<BR>

folks feel about supplements. After being a vegetarian for years, I <BR>

<BR>

got tired of people telling me that I had to worry about not getting <BR>

<BR>

enough B12 in my diet. So, I looked into buying a B12 supplement and <BR>

<BR>

discovered that they were made out of seashells. And I am sure that <BR>

<BR>

they weren't just seashells lying around the beach. Creatures were <BR>

<BR>

most likely killed to get those shells. I heard that you could get <BR>

<BR>

synthisized B12 somehwere, but how good could that be? Anyway, any <BR>

<BR>

opinions will be appreciated.<BR>

<BR>

Susan<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Elchanan...

 

 

 

I like to use the MMA (Methylmalonic Acid) test as it seems to be the golden

standard for B12. Also, if the farmers (corporate) would discover how to

re-mineralize their land, the bugs would leave the crops alone. When a plant

is vibrating at the correct frequency and is healthy...there is no need for

pesticides or any type of spray!

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing your insight

 

 

 

Steven

 

 

 

 

INFO @ Vibrant Life [VLinfo]

Thursday, March 10, 2005 12:26 AM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] B-12, anemia, pesticides

Thanks, Steven.

Much of the material you provide is fine, some is outdated and/or

incomplete. The discussion about pernicious anemia is overblown and results

largely from medical misdirection, mistaking symptoms for causes, that sort

of thing. and the connection actually established by clinical research is

quite weak at best. Anemia is largely caused by other factors, particularly

excessive menstrual discharge in women, This, in turn is caused by a

combination of poor diet, stress, and the gargantuan shift in hormones in

the diet due to use of pesticides, particularly those with

estrogen-mimicking side effects. Women used to begin menstruating in their

mid-teens; now many American girls begin before age 10. The effects later in

life are just beginning to be identified but appear to be horrendous.

The effects of pesticides are actually far more serious than most people

realize. Pesticides in use today are more than 3,000 times stronger than

those first put into service back in 1946-1947. In fact, inability to

continue this trend (making ever-stronger pesticides) is the primary

commercial motivation behind the big genetic engineering push. The first

goal has been to create bug-resistant and even pesticide-resistant plants.

Pesticides contribute directly to B-12 depletion by annihilating the

bacteria IN THE SOIL that produce the B-12. This has been demonstrated now

on more than one occasion, particularly by a researcher in France.

Further, rising pesticide use is the most highly correlated factor with

increasing male impotency in the U.S. This has been true in analysis of date

from EVERY year since the first widespread use of pesticides in 1947. In

fact, if we continue, some scientists believe we have a potentially

extinction-level situation.

Finally, returning to my recommendation, I merely suggested getting good

data on the state of B-12 in one's body before taking any supplements. If we

consume more of something than we need, we create a situation where our body

must expend valuable resources to eliminate that excess and/or store the

material for later elimination.

This seems prudent to me.

Best, and thanks again for bringing all this great information to light.

Elchanan

Steven [rawfasting]

Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:48 PM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Supplements, B-12

Elchanan...

You may want to consider this in your B12 recommendations!

Best to you!

Steven

_______________

Vitamin B12 / Cyanocobalamin (Page 1)

Excerpt from and my appreciation to:

The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/vi/vitamin.html

vitamin:

A group of organic substances that are required in the diet of humans and

animals for normal growth, maintenance of life, and normal reproduction...

If viewed at above web-page linked above, scroll down to section #16 to see

Vitamin B12

Vitamin B12

The molecular structure of vitamin B12 vitamin. B12 (cobalamin), the most

complex of all known vitamins, was announced in 1955 by several scientists,

including British biochemists A. R. Todd and Dorothy Hodgkin. In 1973 the

vitamin was reported to have been synthesized by organic chemists. Vitamin

B12 and closely related cobalamins are necessary for folic acid to fulfill

its role; both are involved in the synthesis of proteins. American

physicians G. R. Minot and W. P. Murphy in 1926 fed large amounts of liver

to patients with pernicious anemia and cured them; the curative substance in

this case was probably vitamin B12. However, pernicious anemia in humans is

caused not by a vitamin B12 deficiency in the diet but rather the absence of

a substance called the intrinsic factor, ordinarily secreted by the stomach

and responsible for facilitating the absorption of B12 from the intestine.

When a person's body cannot produce the intrinsic factor, the standard

treatment today is to inject vitamin B12 directly into the bloodstream.

Minot and Murphy's therapy worked because the liver they fed their patients

contained such large quantities of B12 that sufficient amounts of the

vitamin were absorbed without the assistance of the intrinsic factor.

Inadequate absorption of B12 causes pernicious anemia, nervous system

degeneration, and amenorrhea. The only site of cobalamin synthesis in nature

appears to be in microorganisms*; neither animals nor higher plants are

capable of making these vitamin B12 derivatives. Nevertheless, such animal

tissues as the liver, kidney, and heart of ruminants contain relatively

large quantities of vitamin B12; the vitamin stored in these organs was

originally produced by the (Cyano-) bacteria in the ruminant gut. Bivalves

(clams or oysters), which siphon microorganisms* from the sea, are also good

sources. Plants, on the other hand, are poor sources of (concentrated)**

vitamin B12. The recommended daily dietary allowance for adults is 3 (? see

all below) micrograms.

Inoculations destroy the Stomach and GI Track and cause Intrisic factor.

My notes and added information for above:

microorganisms*

* Cyanocobalamin - Vitamin B12 producing bacteria are in the Cyanobacterium

(algae, moses) family. This class of microorganisms are bacteria that

generally require and live in the sunlight and/or oxygenated environment of

the plant surfaces, roots, upper soils and in the waters (near surface).

They do not survive in the black dark anaerobic environment of interior

animal tissues -- though their exo- and endo-compounds (metabolic

excretions), including the vitamin B12 compound group, do and is accumulated

and concentrated in the herbivorous (plant material consuming) animal (in

fecal material, intestines, hence delivered into all body tissues, blood,

muscles, entrails, esp. liver and kidneys) and is also expressed (to manage

internal tissue levels) through and in body fluids (milk, mucus, urine) or

ova (eggs). There is some presumptions of data that pro ports they

(Cyanocobalamin bacteria) have some survival and production activity in the

(dissolved oxygen and plant nutrient available) gut (primarily gullet and

lower intestine) of herbivores / ruminants (e.g. cow, goat, horse, etc.)

animals. But it is well understood that the critically important source of

B12 in livestock (gen. ruminant) production is in your (unwashed, untreated)

silage (corn, grains, beet pulp, ferments) along with alfalfa and hay, wheat

grass, barley grass, where these plant loving cyano-bacteria flourish, then

enter into the consuming animal!

(concentrated**) -- my insertion to the Columbia Encyclopedia's text, 2nd to

last line above. God and nature has made no mistakes in providing sufficient

Vitamin B12 to billions of herbivorous animals over millions of millennia -

including the vegetarian primates (our biologically nearest creational

equivalents) and man! -- if he (man) makes the right dietary choices and

nourishes himself the way he was originally designed! -- that is: in and

from the garden! -- the perfect home of pure, uncontaminated, light, oxygen

and vegetation loving Cyanocobalamin in correct bounty, in low

concentrations, but sufficient for our needs!-- Not extorted from defiled,

destroyed, killed, disease hosting, disease transmitting and B12

hyper-concentrating animals -- especially carnivorous animals (as poultry,

pork, fish, etc.) which accumulate and concentrate even more B12 in their

tissue, fluids and ova at levels above and higher than the herbivorous

animals and/or the insects which they consume. Hence carnivores (including

man when he chooses to be such) do ultra-concentrate B12 in their tissues!

Hence in carnivorous man, a falsely high mean standard of B12 levels is

accumulated in phlebotomy data and is accepted as the human norm! -- Not

good or honest science!!! And that false high standard precipitates wrong

diagnosis! that is, lower test values of accumulated serum*** B12 levels --

which are naturally less in non-carnivorous humans and their dependent

nursing infants! They then are endangered with the unnecessary

administrations of (the sewage and/or animal harvested and formulated) B12

injections and/or tablets, with their plethora of contraindications (ill

side affects) possible in many recipient patients or wrongly treated

victims!

*** serum (blood stream) levels of B12 is not always a good indication of

true internal, intra-/inter-cellular, metabolic, B12 functional levels. It

is also (now) known that the cells are very conservative with B12; keeping

appropriate stores of it within the cells themselves, recycling it within

the intra-cellular (inside) chemistry and allowing only what is necessary in

inter-cellular (between cells) chemistry to be exported, hence not requiring

(as was previously presumed) high levels of B12 to be carried in blood flow

to replenish it. -- tlr 7/3/03

Standard medicine has seriously erred in violation of honored Koch

postulates and true scientific method, by producing unnatural high average

blood level standards for B12, and assuming them as the correct human mean

-- based upon hematological data accumulated and calculated in the

cross-section of primarily heavily carnivorous USA/Industrial world humans!

Not a true or honest measure for serum B12 levels for all of humanity, nor

for creation's biologically intended, apparent and correct human nutrition,

chemistry and physiology!

The original concern over Vitamin B12 deficiency (based on research started

before three quarters of a century ago and completed over a half century

ago) was a perceived relationship in poor health conditions called

" pernicious anima " (and other closely related neurological and physiological

malfunctions). It now has been established that the true cause of this group

of maladies is a failure in the bodies own ability to produce its own

correct " intrinsic factor " , a compound associated with B12's

intra/intercellular transport and use -- which is ill-formed in a

hydrochloric acid and bile abused (a condition specifically triggered by the

corrosive digestion required for complex, high molecular weight, dense

animal proteins and fats within a) malnourished, malfunctioning, or

chemically damaged (or rarely, a genetically flawed) intestinal tract --

rather than the old belief that the cause was (as presumed) a Vitamin B12

intake or (a test determined*) serum level deficiency!

-- This error in perception, diagnoses and treatment does persist, even to

date among too many non-current or incompletely educated health

practitioners, their older peers, administrations and dependent government

health and welfare agencies! -- tlr 7/2/03

*Remember, these test protocols and standards were determined over a half

century year ago, and also were based on generally highly carnivorous,

western human models.

----------

----

Personal references: Veterinary & Human Biology & Pathology education and

reference books / personal Human, Animal, Livestock and Marine (algae)

research and experience -- and required knowledge for good livestock

production and profit -- in my past.

I will try to improve upon and expand this page later as my resources/time

allow. In the meantime, you may see a reference to intestinal (microvilli)

repair at LDSVeg.org/Raw.htm#microvilli, and other intestine and whole body

healing and nutritional information on LifeSave.org, VeganCowboy.org,

WaterAndLife.org and our other subject specific sites (listed on

Lifesave.org and VeganCowboy.org)

TLR. 7/1/03

Appreciation to my wife and family:

Constructing this page has taken more than three full days away from family

and real income producing work (which also goes to cover this labors total

costs including the necessary ongoing internet debts). This required the

confirming in all my old references, personal texts and notes from forty

years education and experience back; then the time and concentration to

ponder, recheck my supporting data, organize, write, edit, rewrite re-edit

-- and I am probably still not finished with refining it for you! My hope

is you will be benefited, have correct knowledge, prove it yourself as is

possible, and that you will appreciate this labor and sacrifice (especially

that which affects and leaves my family short) for you, the reader! -- tlr

INFO @ Vibrant Life [VLinfo]

Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:33 PM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Supplements, B-12

Hi Susan,

Every question is an honorable and noble inquiry in pursuit of growth and

self-improvement. Repetition affords us the opportunity to reinforce what we

have already leaned and to offer variances in perspective.

In general, use of supplements is a tacit admission that one's current diet

(or an author's recommended diet) does not work.

Nutrients in plants come by the thousands and tens of thousands. They are

balanced in proportion to one another in perfect combinations we cannot even

begin to notice, much less unravel.

In contrast, nutrients in boxes and bottles come a few at a time, in

whatever combination is convenient and cost-effective for the manufacturer.

So from my perspective, it's food 10, supplements, zero.

B-12 is the one exception cited even by some people who generally eschew

supplements. B-12 is the largest and most complex of the vitamins, and to my

knowledge " modern science " can only grow it, not synthesize it, at least as

of the present.

B-12 is bacteria poop and occurs quite naturally wherever certain bacteria

are present. As a result, manufacture of certain antibiotics (penicillin,

streptomycin) yields a supply of B-12.

ONLY TAKE A B-12 SUPPLEMENT IF YOU REALLY NEED IT. YOUR FRIENDS AND MOST OF

YOUR TEACHERS HAVE NO EARTHLY IDEA WHETHER THIS IS SO, unless one of them

actually happens to have access to blood testing apparatus and knows what to

do with the results.

If you do choose to take a B-12 supplement, choose a sublingual variety

(liquid, under the tongue) for fastest and least disruptive absorption. And

you only need a little -- current estimates are that we need about 1

microgram (one millionth of a gram) per day. And our system can store

surplus B-12 for future use, unlike some vitamins.

However, there another and MUCH better solution than any form of

supplements. Search out farmers who compost extensively. There soil, and the

foods grown in that soil, will contain B-12, at least after they've done it

for a couple of years. This occurs because composting nurtures the

biological wealth -- the life, the living organisms -- in the soil. And it

is this biological life that actually produces many of the nutrients we

need. This is one (of several) reasons why use of pesticides is SO damaging

to the food supply.

Best to all,

Elchanan

Susan [sdmendell]

Wednesday, March 09, 2005 6:53 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Supplements

I apologize if this topic has already been discussed...I am new to

this group and to living foods in general. I am just wondering how

folks feel about supplements. After being a vegetarian for years, I

got tired of people telling me that I had to worry about not getting

enough B12 in my diet. So, I looked into buying a B12 supplement and

discovered that they were made out of seashells. And I am sure that

they weren't just seashells lying around the beach. Creatures were

most likely killed to get those shells. I heard that you could get

synthisized B12 somehwere, but how good could that be? Anyway, any

opinions will be appreciated.

Susan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Welcome! And I agree, that is a good B-12 standard, to the extent that there

is any good standard. But we might all keep in mind that ALL present

standards are nothing more than negotiated values loosely based upon

statistical norms drawn from a sick population. In other words, eat and

enjoy!

Elchanan

 

Steven [rawfasting]

Thursday, March 10, 2005 9:18 AM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] B-12, anemia, pesticides

 

 

Elchanan...

 

 

 

I like to use the MMA (Methylmalonic Acid) test as it seems to be the golden

standard for B12. Also, if the farmers (corporate) would discover how to

re-mineralize their land, the bugs would leave the crops alone. When a plant

is vibrating at the correct frequency and is healthy...there is no need for

pesticides or any type of spray!

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing your insight

 

 

 

Steven

 

 

 

 

INFO @ Vibrant Life [VLinfo]

Thursday, March 10, 2005 12:26 AM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] B-12, anemia, pesticides

Thanks, Steven.

Much of the material you provide is fine, some is outdated and/or

incomplete. The discussion about pernicious anemia is overblown and results

largely from medical misdirection, mistaking symptoms for causes, that sort

of thing. and the connection actually established by clinical research is

quite weak at best. Anemia is largely caused by other factors, particularly

excessive menstrual discharge in women, This, in turn is caused by a

combination of poor diet, stress, and the gargantuan shift in hormones in

the diet due to use of pesticides, particularly those with

estrogen-mimicking side effects. Women used to begin menstruating in their

mid-teens; now many American girls begin before age 10. The effects later in

life are just beginning to be identified but appear to be horrendous.

The effects of pesticides are actually far more serious than most people

realize. Pesticides in use today are more than 3,000 times stronger than

those first put into service back in 1946-1947. In fact, inability to

continue this trend (making ever-stronger pesticides) is the primary

commercial motivation behind the big genetic engineering push. The first

goal has been to create bug-resistant and even pesticide-resistant plants.

Pesticides contribute directly to B-12 depletion by annihilating the

bacteria IN THE SOIL that produce the B-12. This has been demonstrated now

on more than one occasion, particularly by a researcher in France.

Further, rising pesticide use is the most highly correlated factor with

increasing male impotency in the U.S. This has been true in analysis of date

from EVERY year since the first widespread use of pesticides in 1947. In

fact, if we continue, some scientists believe we have a potentially

extinction-level situation.

Finally, returning to my recommendation, I merely suggested getting good

data on the state of B-12 in one's body before taking any supplements. If we

consume more of something than we need, we create a situation where our body

must expend valuable resources to eliminate that excess and/or store the

material for later elimination.

This seems prudent to me.

Best, and thanks again for bringing all this great information to light.

Elchanan

Steven [rawfasting]

Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:48 PM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Supplements, B-12

Elchanan...

You may want to consider this in your B12 recommendations!

Best to you!

Steven

_______________

Vitamin B12 / Cyanocobalamin (Page 1)

Excerpt from and my appreciation to:

The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/vi/vitamin.html

vitamin:

A group of organic substances that are required in the diet of humans and

animals for normal growth, maintenance of life, and normal reproduction...

If viewed at above web-page linked above, scroll down to section #16 to see

Vitamin B12

Vitamin B12

The molecular structure of vitamin B12 vitamin. B12 (cobalamin), the most

complex of all known vitamins, was announced in 1955 by several scientists,

including British biochemists A. R. Todd and Dorothy Hodgkin. In 1973 the

vitamin was reported to have been synthesized by organic chemists. Vitamin

B12 and closely related cobalamins are necessary for folic acid to fulfill

its role; both are involved in the synthesis of proteins. American

physicians G. R. Minot and W. P. Murphy in 1926 fed large amounts of liver

to patients with pernicious anemia and cured them; the curative substance in

this case was probably vitamin B12. However, pernicious anemia in humans is

caused not by a vitamin B12 deficiency in the diet but rather the absence of

a substance called the intrinsic factor, ordinarily secreted by the stomach

and responsible for facilitating the absorption of B12 from the intestine.

When a person's body cannot produce the intrinsic factor, the standard

treatment today is to inject vitamin B12 directly into the bloodstream.

Minot and Murphy's therapy worked because the liver they fed their patients

contained such large quantities of B12 that sufficient amounts of the

vitamin were absorbed without the assistance of the intrinsic factor.

Inadequate absorption of B12 causes pernicious anemia, nervous system

degeneration, and amenorrhea. The only site of cobalamin synthesis in nature

appears to be in microorganisms*; neither animals nor higher plants are

capable of making these vitamin B12 derivatives. Nevertheless, such animal

tissues as the liver, kidney, and heart of ruminants contain relatively

large quantities of vitamin B12; the vitamin stored in these organs was

originally produced by the (Cyano-) bacteria in the ruminant gut. Bivalves

(clams or oysters), which siphon microorganisms* from the sea, are also good

sources. Plants, on the other hand, are poor sources of (concentrated)**

vitamin B12. The recommended daily dietary allowance for adults is 3 (? see

all below) micrograms.

Inoculations destroy the Stomach and GI Track and cause Intrisic factor.

My notes and added information for above:

microorganisms*

* Cyanocobalamin - Vitamin B12 producing bacteria are in the Cyanobacterium

(algae, moses) family. This class of microorganisms are bacteria that

generally require and live in the sunlight and/or oxygenated environment of

the plant surfaces, roots, upper soils and in the waters (near surface).

They do not survive in the black dark anaerobic environment of interior

animal tissues -- though their exo- and endo-compounds (metabolic

excretions), including the vitamin B12 compound group, do and is accumulated

and concentrated in the herbivorous (plant material consuming) animal (in

fecal material, intestines, hence delivered into all body tissues, blood,

muscles, entrails, esp. liver and kidneys) and is also expressed (to manage

internal tissue levels) through and in body fluids (milk, mucus, urine) or

ova (eggs). There is some presumptions of data that pro ports they

(Cyanocobalamin bacteria) have some survival and production activity in the

(dissolved oxygen and plant nutrient available) gut (primarily gullet and

lower intestine) of herbivores / ruminants (e.g. cow, goat, horse, etc.)

animals. But it is well understood that the critically important source of

B12 in livestock (gen. ruminant) production is in your (unwashed, untreated)

silage (corn, grains, beet pulp, ferments) along with alfalfa and hay, wheat

grass, barley grass, where these plant loving cyano-bacteria flourish, then

enter into the consuming animal!

(concentrated**) -- my insertion to the Columbia Encyclopedia's text, 2nd to

last line above. God and nature has made no mistakes in providing sufficient

Vitamin B12 to billions of herbivorous animals over millions of millennia -

including the vegetarian primates (our biologically nearest creational

equivalents) and man! -- if he (man) makes the right dietary choices and

nourishes himself the way he was originally designed! -- that is: in and

from the garden! -- the perfect home of pure, uncontaminated, light, oxygen

and vegetation loving Cyanocobalamin in correct bounty, in low

concentrations, but sufficient for our needs!-- Not extorted from defiled,

destroyed, killed, disease hosting, disease transmitting and B12

hyper-concentrating animals -- especially carnivorous animals (as poultry,

pork, fish, etc.) which accumulate and concentrate even more B12 in their

tissue, fluids and ova at levels above and higher than the herbivorous

animals and/or the insects which they consume. Hence carnivores (including

man when he chooses to be such) do ultra-concentrate B12 in their tissues!

Hence in carnivorous man, a falsely high mean standard of B12 levels is

accumulated in phlebotomy data and is accepted as the human norm! -- Not

good or honest science!!! And that false high standard precipitates wrong

diagnosis! that is, lower test values of accumulated serum*** B12 levels --

which are naturally less in non-carnivorous humans and their dependent

nursing infants! They then are endangered with the unnecessary

administrations of (the sewage and/or animal harvested and formulated) B12

injections and/or tablets, with their plethora of contraindications (ill

side affects) possible in many recipient patients or wrongly treated

victims!

*** serum (blood stream) levels of B12 is not always a good indication of

true internal, intra-/inter-cellular, metabolic, B12 functional levels. It

is also (now) known that the cells are very conservative with B12; keeping

appropriate stores of it within the cells themselves, recycling it within

the intra-cellular (inside) chemistry and allowing only what is necessary in

inter-cellular (between cells) chemistry to be exported, hence not requiring

(as was previously presumed) high levels of B12 to be carried in blood flow

to replenish it. -- tlr 7/3/03

Standard medicine has seriously erred in violation of honored Koch

postulates and true scientific method, by producing unnatural high average

blood level standards for B12, and assuming them as the correct human mean

-- based upon hematological data accumulated and calculated in the

cross-section of primarily heavily carnivorous USA/Industrial world humans!

Not a true or honest measure for serum B12 levels for all of humanity, nor

for creation's biologically intended, apparent and correct human nutrition,

chemistry and physiology!

The original concern over Vitamin B12 deficiency (based on research started

before three quarters of a century ago and completed over a half century

ago) was a perceived relationship in poor health conditions called

" pernicious anima " (and other closely related neurological and physiological

malfunctions). It now has been established that the true cause of this group

of maladies is a failure in the bodies own ability to produce its own

correct " intrinsic factor " , a compound associated with B12's

intra/intercellular transport and use -- which is ill-formed in a

hydrochloric acid and bile abused (a condition specifically triggered by the

corrosive digestion required for complex, high molecular weight, dense

animal proteins and fats within a) malnourished, malfunctioning, or

chemically damaged (or rarely, a genetically flawed) intestinal tract --

rather than the old belief that the cause was (as presumed) a Vitamin B12

intake or (a test determined*) serum level deficiency!

-- This error in perception, diagnoses and treatment does persist, even to

date among too many non-current or incompletely educated health

practitioners, their older peers, administrations and dependent government

health and welfare agencies! -- tlr 7/2/03

*Remember, these test protocols and standards were determined over a half

century year ago, and also were based on generally highly carnivorous,

western human models.

----------

----

Personal references: Veterinary & Human Biology & Pathology education and

reference books / personal Human, Animal, Livestock and Marine (algae)

research and experience -- and required knowledge for good livestock

production and profit -- in my past.

I will try to improve upon and expand this page later as my resources/time

allow. In the meantime, you may see a reference to intestinal (microvilli)

repair at LDSVeg.org/Raw.htm#microvilli, and other intestine and whole body

healing and nutritional information on LifeSave.org, VeganCowboy.org,

WaterAndLife.org and our other subject specific sites (listed on

Lifesave.org and VeganCowboy.org)

TLR. 7/1/03

Appreciation to my wife and family:

Constructing this page has taken more than three full days away from family

and real income producing work (which also goes to cover this labors total

costs including the necessary ongoing internet debts). This required the

confirming in all my old references, personal texts and notes from forty

years education and experience back; then the time and concentration to

ponder, recheck my supporting data, organize, write, edit, rewrite re-edit

-- and I am probably still not finished with refining it for you! My hope

is you will be benefited, have correct knowledge, prove it yourself as is

possible, and that you will appreciate this labor and sacrifice (especially

that which affects and leaves my family short) for you, the reader! -- tlr

INFO @ Vibrant Life [VLinfo]

Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:33 PM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Supplements, B-12

Hi Susan,

Every question is an honorable and noble inquiry in pursuit of growth and

self-improvement. Repetition affords us the opportunity to reinforce what we

have already leaned and to offer variances in perspective.

In general, use of supplements is a tacit admission that one's current diet

(or an author's recommended diet) does not work.

Nutrients in plants come by the thousands and tens of thousands. They are

balanced in proportion to one another in perfect combinations we cannot even

begin to notice, much less unravel.

In contrast, nutrients in boxes and bottles come a few at a time, in

whatever combination is convenient and cost-effective for the manufacturer.

So from my perspective, it's food 10, supplements, zero.

B-12 is the one exception cited even by some people who generally eschew

supplements. B-12 is the largest and most complex of the vitamins, and to my

knowledge " modern science " can only grow it, not synthesize it, at least as

of the present.

B-12 is bacteria poop and occurs quite naturally wherever certain bacteria

are present. As a result, manufacture of certain antibiotics (penicillin,

streptomycin) yields a supply of B-12.

ONLY TAKE A B-12 SUPPLEMENT IF YOU REALLY NEED IT. YOUR FRIENDS AND MOST OF

YOUR TEACHERS HAVE NO EARTHLY IDEA WHETHER THIS IS SO, unless one of them

actually happens to have access to blood testing apparatus and knows what to

do with the results.

If you do choose to take a B-12 supplement, choose a sublingual variety

(liquid, under the tongue) for fastest and least disruptive absorption. And

you only need a little -- current estimates are that we need about 1

microgram (one millionth of a gram) per day. And our system can store

surplus B-12 for future use, unlike some vitamins.

However, there another and MUCH better solution than any form of

supplements. Search out farmers who compost extensively. There soil, and the

foods grown in that soil, will contain B-12, at least after they've done it

for a couple of years. This occurs because composting nurtures the

biological wealth -- the life, the living organisms -- in the soil. And it

is this biological life that actually produces many of the nutrients we

need. This is one (of several) reasons why use of pesticides is SO damaging

to the food supply.

Best to all,

Elchanan

Susan [sdmendell]

Wednesday, March 09, 2005 6:53 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Supplements

I apologize if this topic has already been discussed...I am new to

this group and to living foods in general. I am just wondering how

folks feel about supplements. After being a vegetarian for years, I

got tired of people telling me that I had to worry about not getting

enough B12 in my diet. So, I looked into buying a B12 supplement and

discovered that they were made out of seashells. And I am sure that

they weren't just seashells lying around the beach. Creatures were

most likely killed to get those shells. I heard that you could get

synthisized B12 somehwere, but how good could that be? Anyway, any

opinions will be appreciated.

Susan

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