RE: Green smoothies/food combining ADDENDUM [s]

[Guest guest]

Please add the following to my comments from earlier, repeated below:

 

When addressing the question about mixing vegetables/greens with fruit,

either on a plate or in a smoothie, it is important to acknowledge certain

distinctions:

 

1. Soft or " tender " greens are ideal. These include lettuce of most

varieties, but NOT kale, chard, collards, in general the tougher, more

bitter greens.

 

2. Other vegetables, such as broccoli, cauliflower, etc. as well as the

tougher greens are all high in cellulose, i.e., nondigestible fiber, and are

therefore not an idea component in our diet and not ideal to mix with

fruits.

 

Thanks to Laurie Masters for suggesting I add this information to the post.

Elchanan

________________________

Hi Tesser,

 

Victoria Boutenko in particular promotes the idea of green smoothies these

days, and she is not the first to do so over the years. Overall, green

smoothies are superior to green juice in that the smoothies retain the whole

food (albeit pulverized), whereas the juices discard much of the food.

 

In general, fruits alone and in proper combinations are ideal. However, you

can mix leafy greens and celery with fruits in a smoothie without

sacrificing much in the way of digestible. Greens are high in water, high in

alkaline components, and very low acid. They have a similar sugar mix --

glucose, fructose, some sucrose. Most fruits have glucose and fructose, and

at times some sucrose, as well. Greens are a bit higher in protein/fat as a

percent of calories, but the actual number of calories is so low that it is

inconsequential. And greens contain water soluble fiber and relatively soft

nondigestible fiber, not too dissimilar from most fruits.

 

Mixing melons with anything else is not recommended, even different types of

melons.

 

Mixing greens with sweet fruits -- bananas, dates, figs, etc. -- in a

smoothie works quite well, it's an alkaline dream.

 

Mixing greens with semisweet/subacid or acid fruits works, but you start to

get a pH (acid/alkaline) mismatch.

 

Mixing greens with high-fat fruit (avocado) works fine, many people call it

" salad. " :)

 

In general, if green smoothies help you get your greens and/or minimize

consumption of high-fat foods, then they may be great for you. However,

remember to chew your smoothies, as chewing contributes significantly to the

body's digestive messaging.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Elchanan

 

 

tesser2u [tesser2u]

Thursday, March 10, 2005 2:50 PM

rawfood

[Raw Food] green smoothies

 

 

 

Does anyone do much in the way of " green smoothies " ? Something I

recently read recommends them. I am somewhat confused though because

I understood that it was better to eat fruits by themselves because

they digest so quickly. Would this not go against combining fruits

with greens to make a green smoothy?

 

Tesser

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Poppycock, I eat a little vegetable and a little sweet, fruit, at

every meal and I'm fine. Pretty gassy though, maybe the mix is the

reason.

 

rawfood , " INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo@e...>

wrote:

> Please add the following to my comments from earlier, repeated

below:

>

> When addressing the question about mixing vegetables/greens with

fruit,

> either on a plate or in a smoothie, it is important to acknowledge

certain

> distinctions:

>

> 1. Soft or " tender " greens are ideal. These include lettuce of most

> varieties, but NOT kale, chard, collards, in general the tougher,

more

> bitter greens.

>

> 2. Other vegetables, such as broccoli, cauliflower, etc. as well as

the

> tougher greens are all high in cellulose, i.e., nondigestible

fiber, and are

> therefore not an idea component in our diet and not ideal to mix

with

> fruits.

>

> Thanks to Laurie Masters for suggesting I add this information to

the post.

> Elchanan

[Guest guest]

Hi Elchanan,

 

May I ask who you are quoting when you say, " Soft or " tender " greens are ideal.

These include lettuce of most

varieties, but NOT kale, chard, collards, in general the tougher, more bitter

greens. Other vegetables, such as broccoli, cauliflower, etc. as well as the

tougher greens are all high in cellulose, i.e., nondigestible fiber, and are

therefore not an idea component in our diet and not ideal to mix with fruits. "

 

I disagree on your take on vegetables, we need all the fiber we can get.

 

In " Food Combining Better Health - The Natural Way " , (not a raw book), by Rita

Bingham, says, " British physician Denis Burkitt found that the rural Africans he

studied ate some 50 to 150 grams of fiber a day. Americans, by contrast,

typically consume about 20 grams. [DW- I've seen studies where Americans only

eat 8-10 grams of fiber a day.] It is generally accepted by many researcher

today that we should double or triple [DW - 40 to 60 grams] our fiber intake

(mainly soluble fiber, eaten as unrefined foods). "

 

How much fiber do you think you are eating a day?

 

Soluble fiber slows digestion and helps your body absorb vital nutrients from

foods. Insoluble fiber adds bulk to the stool, helping foods pass more quickly

through the stomach and intestines.

Source: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002136.htm

 

If you check it out, greens are almost the best source of fiber for a person who

eats raw foods:

All foods - http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-000006000000000000000.html

vegetables - http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-011006000000000000000.html

 

The vegetables you look down on, " kale, chard, collards, other vegetables, such

as broccoli, cauliflower, etc " , are I believe the ones we should it tons more of

for our health.

 

In, I believe, your last email you stated, " Victoria Boutenko in particular

promotes the idea of green smoothies these days. " it is not greens she is so

much promoting, but fiber, the very thing if I understand what your saying, we

shouldn't eat because they are " tougher, more bitter, or are high in cellulose

and nondigestible fiber " .

 

By the way, right now she makes up a gallon drink made up of one bunch of kale

and two mangos blended in a vitamix, and she herself drinks two of these gallons

a day. They shared some with me and it tasted GREAT.

 

If you read Dr Ann wigmore's books " The Blending Book " , and " Rebuild your

health " this is exactly what Dr. Ann was teaching before her death. Dr. Ann

said, " My personal opinion is that a diet should consist of 70 percent blended

foods and 30 percent other living foods. " She also says, " I cannot emphasize

enough the importance of blended foods in order to give the body a chance to

assimilate nourishment to supply the missing elements. "

Source: The Blending Book, by Ann Wigmore and Lee Pattinson, pgs. 11, 20. And

the green you appear to be tell us not to use are the ones Dr. Ann suggests we

use.

 

And if you are going to follow the works of Dr Shelton, which does have a rule

that " Eat sugars (fruits) and starchy foods at separate meals " , All vegetables

with the exception of potatoes, sweet potatoes, and may Jerusalem artichokes,

are considered non-starchy vegetables and don't fall under the above rule.

 

I like Dr. William Howard Hay, theory on food combining, he considered all

vegetables other than potatoes, and Jerusalem artichokes to be neutral foods

which can combine with proteins or starches or fruit or sweet fruit.

 

If you can point me to some scientific papers on food combining, please post

them. I see a lot of personal theory on food combining, no proof, facts, or

truth to back up their theories.

 

I would like to say one last thing, I really enjoy your post, they are very

informative.

 

Blessings,

 

Dale

 

Webmaster

Http://hishealingways.com

 

-

Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:43:32 -0800

" INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo

RE: Green smoothies/food combining ADDENDUM

Please add the following to my comments from earlier, repeated below:

When addressing the question about mixing vegetables/greens with fruit,

either on a plate or in a smoothie, it is important to acknowledge certain

distinctions:

1. Soft or " tender " greens are ideal. These include lettuce of most

varieties, but NOT kale, chard, collards, in general the tougher, more

bitter greens.

2. Other vegetables, such as broccoli, cauliflower, etc. as well as the

tougher greens are all high in cellulose, i.e., nondigestible fiber, and are

therefore not an idea component in our diet and not ideal to mix with

fruits.

Thanks to Laurie Masters for suggesting I add this information to the post.

Elchanan

[Guest guest]

Hi Dale,

 

First, thank you for this: " I would like to say one last thing, I really

enjoy your posts, they are very informative. " I appreciate that very much.

 

Second, thank you SO much for your kind and thoughtful post on fiber, below.

I have read your post through three times, and it seems rather obvious to me

that I did not fully communicate as I intended in my first post on this

topic. So I'll try and do better here.

 

I agree COMPLETELY with all the information you provided about the need for

and benefits of soluble fiber. I consider soluble fiber an essential

nutrient for anyone who does not live by the sun's energy alone.

 

For example, certain well-known soluble fibers, such as guar and pectin,

moderate sugar absorption from the small intestine. This is why WHOLE fruits

are among the lowest foods on the glycemic index, they contain large

quantities of guar and pectin.

 

Pectin is also an important physical binding agent. It is widely used in

pies, for example, to hold them together in a nice, soft sort of way.

Performs exactly the same function in the bowel (aka colon, large

intestine).

 

And I agree that most westerners eat far less fiber than would be healthy

for them. Animal food products contain zero fiber. Most commercial grain

products have been stripped of their fiber. Much of the fiber in fruits and

vegetables is destroyed or damaged during processing and cooking. And

prescription and over-the-counter digestion remedies comprise the largest

drug category of all. (Not just because of fiber deficiency, but it plays a

part.)

 

I disagree with one statement you make, " we need all the fiber we can get. "

I prefer to put it a bit differently. We need just the right amount of any

substance, given our size, activity level, present health, etc. We do not

need " all we can get " of anything. I'm rather certain you didn't mean this

comment in a literal way, but I'm just taking a moment to point it out for

the benefit of all. We do live in a culture that supports " more is better "

thinking. I've never seen that work out very well, but the mindset does seem

ubiquitous, so I'm always on the lookout for opportunities to offer an

alternate perspective.

 

My sense is that the main point upon which we diverge involves sources of

fiber. You asked, " How much fiber do you think you are eating a day? " And

implicit in this question is another, " Where do you think you are getting

it? "

 

I've never actually sat down and tried to calculate my daily fiber intake,

so this will be the first time, here in plain view. I'm sure it will be

informative for me, and hopefully for others, as well.

 

1. I probably consume about 2/3 of all my calories from bananas. I eat about

12 " medium " to " large " bananas daily. So what are " medium " and " large "

bananas? We weighed some and found roughly the following:

 

2.5 oz, 60 calories=small

4.0 oz, 101 calories=medium

5.5 oz, 140 calories=large

 

I'd say my " typical " bananas are about 4.5-5.0 oz, or about 140 gm, give or

take. So 12 bananas means about 1500 gm of bananas per day. Bananas contain

3 gm soluble/digestible fiber per 100 gm, so that's about 45 gm of soluble

fiber per day from bananas.

 

2. I consume 5-10 dates per day, I'll use 8 as an average. I usually eat

Khadrawi dates, smaller than Medjools, the most common variety in stores.

These contribute perhaps 5-6 gm soluble fiber per day.

 

3. On most days I consume a salad that includes a " small " to " medium " head

of lettuce. Contributes 3-5 gm soluble fiber.

 

4. In season (now), I may eat 10-12 tangerines and another 8-10 oranges. I

did not weight these for this analysis, but I am present guessing at least

30 gm soluble fiber with that quantity of fruit.

 

5. In season (not really now), I may eat 5-10 large heirloom tomatoes, or a

larger quantity of smaller tomatoes. Nothing available to weigh right now,

but from previous experience, I'm guessing at least 15 gm soluble fiber

given that quantity of fruit, probably higher.

 

6. Berries, pretty much year-round. Varieties and quantities vary a bit, but

I estimate 8-10 gm soluble fiber.

 

Celery, 4-5 large stalks daily. Est. 5 gm soluble fiber.

 

Obviously the foods vary throughout the year. But hopefully you can see that

I'm comfortably heading into the 100+ gm/day range. And I've excluded many

" incidental " foods, variations, etc.

 

Now I'll look at the whole thing from a different perspective. I'm going to

try and build a table using spaces, I have no idea what mail will do

to it, so please keep a sense of humor about what follows:

 

Food Sol Fibr/100 gm

---- ---------------

Lettuce red leaf 1

Lettuce Romaine 2

Celery 2

Kale 2

Carrot 2

Jerusalem artichoke 2

Broccoli 3

Cauliflower 3

Cabbage 2

Garlic 2

Onion 1

Arugula 2

Asparagus 2

Beets 3

Apples 2

Apricots 2

Blackberries 5

Bananas 3

Cherries 2

Cranberries 5

Figs 3

Grapefruit 1

Grapes 1

Mango 2

Oranges 2-3 (by type)

Tangerines 2

Pears 3

Persimmons 4

Pineapple 1

Cucumber 1

Peppers 2

Tomatoes 1

Almonds 12

Cashews 3

Pecans 10

Pine nuts 11

Pistachios 10

Flax seeds 28

Sesame seeds 12

Sunflower seeds 11

 

That's probably a large enough selection to make the point. As you can see,

ounce for ounce (or gram for gram), fruits have as much or MORE soluble

fiber than greens and various vegetables. Among the highest foods listed

here are blackberries, bananas, figs, persimmons; the last three are all

SWEET fruits, the most alkalizing of all available foods, along with lettuce

greens. And note that the lettuce and the kale contain the same quantity of

soluble fiber, ounce for ounce.

 

IMPLICATIONS

 

1. A high-fruit diet provides every bit as much fiber, ounce for ounce, as

one loaded with vegetables.

2. All that " extra fiber " in vegetables is actually NONSOLUBLE,

nondigestible fiber, as I wrote in my earlier post. It weighs us down and

contributes little of a positive nature.

3. At the end of the foregoing table, several nuts and seeds are listed for

comparison. Note that these DO contain larger quantities of soluble fiber

per ounce. But the problems are that (a) they contain a large quantity of

nondigestible fiber, as well, and (b) they are very high in fat, so we're

moving in the wrong direction by trying to get our fiber from nuts and

seeds.

 

I hope this information is helpful to many, I learned from analyzing my own

fiber intake.

 

Best to all,

Elchanan

 

 

 

Dale Wing [dwing]

Friday, March 11, 2005 2:35 AM

rawfood

Cc: Victoria Boutenko

[Raw Food] Re: RE: Green smoothies/food combining ADDENDUM

 

 

 

Hi Elchanan,

 

May I ask who you are quoting when you say, " Soft or " tender " greens are

ideal. These include lettuce of most

varieties, but NOT kale, chard, collards, in general the tougher, more

bitter greens. Other vegetables, such as broccoli, cauliflower, etc. as well

as the tougher greens are all high in cellulose, i.e., nondigestible fiber,

and are

therefore not an idea component in our diet and not ideal to mix with

fruits. "

 

I disagree on your take on vegetables, we need all the fiber we can get.

 

In " Food Combining Better Health - The Natural Way " , (not a raw book), by

Rita Bingham, says, " British physician Denis Burkitt found that the rural

Africans he studied ate some 50 to 150 grams of fiber a day. Americans, by

contrast, typically consume about 20 grams. [DW- I've seen studies where

Americans only eat 8-10 grams of fiber a day.] It is generally accepted by

many researcher today that we should double or triple [DW - 40 to 60 grams]

our fiber intake (mainly soluble fiber, eaten as unrefined foods). "

 

How much fiber do you think you are eating a day?

 

Soluble fiber slows digestion and helps your body absorb vital nutrients

from foods. Insoluble fiber adds bulk to the stool, helping foods pass more

quickly through the stomach and intestines.

Source: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002136.htm

 

If you check it out, greens are almost the best source of fiber for a person

who eats raw foods:

All foods - http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-000006000000000000000.html

vegetables - http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-011006000000000000000.html

 

The vegetables you look down on, " kale, chard, collards, other vegetables,

such as broccoli, cauliflower, etc " , are I believe the ones we should it

tons more of for our health.

 

In, I believe, your last email you stated, " Victoria Boutenko in particular

promotes the idea of green smoothies these days. " it is not greens she is so

much promoting, but fiber, the very thing if I understand what your saying,

we shouldn't eat because they are " tougher, more bitter, or are high in

cellulose and nondigestible fiber " .

 

By the way, right now she makes up a gallon drink made up of one bunch of

kale and two mangos blended in a vitamix, and she herself drinks two of

these gallons a day. They shared some with me and it tasted GREAT.

 

If you read Dr Ann wigmore's books " The Blending Book " , and " Rebuild your

health " this is exactly what Dr. Ann was teaching before her death. Dr. Ann

said, " My personal opinion is that a diet should consist of 70 percent

blended foods and 30 percent other living foods. " She also says, " I cannot

emphasize enough the importance of blended foods in order to give the body a

chance to assimilate nourishment to supply the missing elements. "

Source: The Blending Book, by Ann Wigmore and Lee Pattinson, pgs. 11, 20.

And the green you appear to be tell us not to use are the ones Dr. Ann

suggests we use.

 

And if you are going to follow the works of Dr Shelton, which does have a

rule that " Eat sugars (fruits) and starchy foods at separate meals " , All

vegetables with the exception of potatoes, sweet potatoes, and may Jerusalem

artichokes, are considered non-starchy vegetables and don't fall under the

above rule.

 

I like Dr. William Howard Hay, theory on food combining, he considered all

vegetables other than potatoes, and Jerusalem artichokes to be neutral foods

which can combine with proteins or starches or fruit or sweet fruit.

 

If you can point me to some scientific papers on food combining, please post

them. I see a lot of personal theory on food combining, no proof, facts, or

truth to back up their theories.

 

I would like to say one last thing, I really enjoy your post, they are very

informative.

 

Blessings,

 

Dale

 

Webmaster

Http://hishealingways.com

 

-

Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:43:32 -0800

" INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo

RE: Green smoothies/food combining ADDENDUM

Please add the following to my comments from earlier, repeated below:

When addressing the question about mixing vegetables/greens with fruit,

either on a plate or in a smoothie, it is important to acknowledge certain

distinctions:

1. Soft or " tender " greens are ideal. These include lettuce of most

varieties, but NOT kale, chard, collards, in general the tougher, more

bitter greens.

2. Other vegetables, such as broccoli, cauliflower, etc. as well as the

tougher greens are all high in cellulose, i.e., nondigestible fiber, and are

therefore not an idea component in our diet and not ideal to mix with

fruits.

Thanks to Laurie Masters for suggesting I add this information to the post.

Elchanan

[Guest guest]

Thank you for this response, Elchanan; your willingness to thoroughly research

and respond is much appreciated! Dale, thank you as well; I know you are a

thoughtful person, and spend much time and energy in learning and presenting

information as you come across it.

 

It is exchanges like this that make me thankful for the internet! I am grateful

for the civility and respect with which you each approached this issue. :-)

 

Peace,

Valerie

 

" INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo wrote:

Second, thank you SO much for your kind and thoughtful post on fiber, below.

I have read your post through three times, and it seems rather obvious to me

that I did not fully communicate as I intended in my first post on this

topic. So I'll try and do better here.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks Valerie.

E

 

 

Valerie Mills Daly [valdaly]

Friday, March 11, 2005 11:53 AM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Re: RE: Green smoothies/food combining ADDENDUM

 

 

Thank you for this response, Elchanan; your willingness to thoroughly

research and respond is much appreciated! Dale, thank you as well; I know

you are a thoughtful person, and spend much time and energy in learning and

presenting information as you come across it.

 

It is exchanges like this that make me thankful for the internet! I am

grateful for the civility and respect with which you each approached this

issue. :-)

 

Peace,

Valerie

 

" INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo wrote:

Second, thank you SO much for your kind and thoughtful post on fiber, below.

I have read your post through three times, and it seems rather obvious to me

that I did not fully communicate as I intended in my first post on this

topic. So I'll try and do better here.