RE: Fatty Livers and how can you fix them [s]

[Guest guest]

Yes.

 

Stop eating high-fat foods, acid-forming foods, and foods high in

nondigestible (insoluble) fiber. I've written so many posts about related

topics, and I know you've been in the group for awhile and have seen them,

so I'll stop here for the moment.

 

Elchanan

 

Gypsi at www.aromaticwings.com [aromatic_wings]

Friday, March 18, 2005 1:05 PM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Fatty Livers and how can you fix them

 

 

Can anyone discuss about fatty livers and how to fix them.. is there a way

to fix them??

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Gypsi,

 

I did write a post on this but apparently did not save it. Basically, cut

the fat and nondigestible fiber as close to zero as possible. I did not

mention the " obvious " things such as alcohol, tobacco, etc. Provide plenty

of SOFT TENDER greens (lettuces) and not harsh greens (kale, chard etc.) No

nuts or seeds for awhile, preferably no avocado for awhile. Emphasize sweet

fruits, vs. acid fruits (light on oranges, heavy on bananas, dates, etc.

 

The fatty liver indicates a severe, long-term toxic overload. The way out is

the reverse of the way in: allow the body to cleanse and cleanse until the

liver comes clean. This may not fun at times, but the only other

alternatives all involve suppressing symptoms until the liver collapses

altogether.

 

Best,

Elchanan

 

 

Gypsi at www.aromaticwings.com [aromatic_wings]

Sunday, March 20, 2005 5:45 PM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Fatty Livers and how can you fix them

 

 

I am sorry alcohol is not the problem with this person.. she does not drink.

But I am sure her diet ovre the years has not been good. She knows to cut

out sugars etc... but is this all.. going back through archives to try and

find the post that was said to discuss this.

 

Rufus Shaw <rufus10_99 wrote:yes, stop drinking alcohol, and the

fat will disapate.

send me a private e-mail if you want to discuss

further. I've been there

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I have a friend who had cirrhosis of the liver. She never drank alcohol. Her

doctor told her to cut out potato chips, and many other snack type starches that

may have been fatty as well.

 

Maureen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you Elchanan,

 

You say to stay away from kale etc.. is this in just eating like in a

salad or does this include drinking as a juice??

I got some dates the other day.. ewwww.. they look like roaches...

sorry.. I have not always been much of a fruit eater til now...

except maybe a banana here and there and oranges.. got the dates

because they are mentioned so much... I will let my friend .. She

goes back to the DR. on Wed.She says she will then discuss this plan

with her Dr. That Dr. has taken test for pancreitis (sp?).. and she

thinks this is the first time in 4 years anyone has looked at a test

such as that... hard to believe. Isn't dibeties due to the pancreas

not working? Her sugars were down to 290 today.. down a few notches..

thank goodness. but she has been pretty nauseated of late.. I told

her it could be due to her system trying to clean out some since she

has been drinking more juices and eating better.

 

rawfood , " INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo@e...>

wrote:

> Hi Gypsi,

>

> I did write a post on this but apparently did not save it.

Basically, cut

> the fat and nondigestible fiber as close to zero as possible. I did

not

> mention the " obvious " things such as alcohol, tobacco, etc. Provide

plenty

> of SOFT TENDER greens (lettuces) and not harsh greens (kale, chard

etc.) No

> nuts or seeds for awhile, preferably no avocado for awhile.

Emphasize sweet

> fruits, vs. acid fruits (light on oranges, heavy on bananas, dates,

etc.

>

> The fatty liver indicates a severe, long-term toxic overload. The

way out is

> the reverse of the way in: allow the body to cleanse and cleanse

until the

> liver comes clean. This may not fun at times, but the only other

> alternatives all involve suppressing symptoms until the liver

collapses

> altogether.

>

> Best,

> Elchanan

>

[Guest guest]

Elchanan,

Oh by the way.... thanks as always for your very insightful thoughts

and posts.. I did try to look through the archives.. and tried the

search but did not come up with anything but my own posts.

 

rawfood , " INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo@e...>

wrote:

> Hi Gypsi,

>

> I did write a post on this but apparently did not save it. >

> *

[Guest guest]

You know, I'm really listening to what you're saying with some care, and I'm

getting the impression that your friend may be headed for a distinct

downturn. Anything she discusses with a doctor will likely be nixed, they

can't sell her bananas.

 

Sounds as if she has a lot of fear, yes? And perhaps afraid to let go of the

doctors/medical path? If this is so, in my own experience only, sometimes,

as painful as it may seem, our best choice is to let go of trying to change

a person and just be with them in love. I am not there so I only have a tiny

glimpse of your circumstances, so if my comments are off base, please tell

me and just discard them. I'm just forming an impression from a distance.

 

Yes, the pancreas produces insulin, among other things, and so it is

involved wherever there is a diabetes diagnosis. The suffice " itis " means

inflammation, it is a sign that the body is trying to heal something, just

as you may get a little itis (red, warm, swelling) around a healing cut or

bite. But what they are looking for is a chronic condition, which suggests

that, for all its efforts, the body is unable to compensate for the

self-abuse going on over time. (I'm not saying the " self-abuse " is

intentional or that anyone is wrong, I'm only using such language to remind

us all that we create these conditions, they do not " happen to us. " )

 

I'm glad the blood sugar is " down a bit, " but 290 is still dangerously high,

I'm sure you both know that. It needs to come down all the way to 100 or so

and stay there. There is no medication in the world that can accomplish

this, the symptoms are simply to severe to suppress to that degree. It can

only be accomplished by the body healing itself.

 

My heart goes out to you and your friend,

Elchanan

 

Debbie [aromatic_wings]

Sunday, March 20, 2005 8:30 PM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Fatty Livers and how can you fix them

 

 

 

Thank you Elchanan,

 

You say to stay away from kale etc.. is this in just eating like in a

salad or does this include drinking as a juice??

I got some dates the other day.. ewwww.. they look like roaches...

sorry.. I have not always been much of a fruit eater til now...

except maybe a banana here and there and oranges.. got the dates

because they are mentioned so much... I will let my friend .. She

goes back to the DR. on Wed.She says she will then discuss this plan

with her Dr. That Dr. has taken test for pancreitis (sp?).. and she

thinks this is the first time in 4 years anyone has looked at a test

such as that... hard to believe. Isn't dibeties due to the pancreas

not working? Her sugars were down to 290 today.. down a few notches..

thank goodness. but she has been pretty nauseated of late.. I told

her it could be due to her system trying to clean out some since she

has been drinking more juices and eating better.

 

rawfood , " INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo@e...>

wrote:

> Hi Gypsi,

>

> I did write a post on this but apparently did not save it.

Basically, cut

> the fat and nondigestible fiber as close to zero as possible. I did

not

> mention the " obvious " things such as alcohol, tobacco, etc. Provide

plenty

> of SOFT TENDER greens (lettuces) and not harsh greens (kale, chard

etc.) No

> nuts or seeds for awhile, preferably no avocado for awhile.

Emphasize sweet

> fruits, vs. acid fruits (light on oranges, heavy on bananas, dates,

etc.

>

> The fatty liver indicates a severe, long-term toxic overload. The

way out is

> the reverse of the way in: allow the body to cleanse and cleanse

until the

> liver comes clean. This may not fun at times, but the only other

> alternatives all involve suppressing symptoms until the liver

collapses

> altogether.

>

> Best,

> Elchanan

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yes, we discuss this at length often.. and since I have been trying to help

her..I also have been cautioning her to take it slow and easy.. she has been in

and out of the hospitals due to her sugars spiking to the 500's often and I do

feel a lot of her problem is fear of letting go of the DRs I am unsure she

should right now til she sees some changes... but again I do not get to see

her..even tho we are across town so I do not know how or what she eats. All I

can go by is what she tells me on line here in an IM. I did mention her going to

a naturopath or hygienist type Dr but I do not think her insurance will cover it

so she has to stick with this for now... unfortunately.. she is pretty open

minded but very fickle too... I have suggested she get copies of her blood tests

to to keep track herself...she is also very agreeable about the fact drs.. keep

us sick so they can rake in that cash...

 

All I do know is that she is very sick of being sick and she does understand she

has done this to herself. But she has told me that she didn't know a lot of the

things I have been sending her.. (some of your posts..and other links etc..) She

has been off work due to health reasons and has been reading everyday.. so she

tells me.. she also tells me to keep them coming.. posts and links and books and

such...

 

I am no where near her stage in life and sad to say she is half my age. I am not

diabetic but according to my dr. I was getting there fast if something didn't

change soon.. That was last year..maybe two years ago... The only main problem

symptom I feel I have is pain in my legs... but since eating raw pretty much

90%... and especially fruits... they have felt much much better. I can go up and

down stairs now like anyone else.. before going down stairs was one at a time

sideways...I also have a problem with my right knee...think due to degeneration

and weight.... plus I can breath much much better and have loads more

energy..need it for my grandkids....hehehe.... can even keep up with my long

legged hubby when we go shopping.. his 6'2 " strides to my 5'4 " stride.. sure are

different... my three to his one...lol..anyway...

 

We are trying to get her on the right track and although I tell her to take it

easy and let her know some of what she is up against due to detoxing.. and

such.. she says she is still going to make it work... just the sick feeling sure

is frustrating .. so maybe combined with the drs. monitoring her.. maybe she

will get better before she gets worse... please pray she will she is only 23...

all I can do is keep her spirits up ..she has to take it from there... I have

mentioned she join this group also... do not know if she has or not... don't

think so...

 

" INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo wrote:

You know, I'm really listening to what you're saying with some care, and I'm

getting the impression that your friend may be headed for a distinct

downturn. Anything she discusses with a doctor will likely be nixed, they

can't sell her bananas.

 

Sounds as if she has a lot of fear, yes? And perhaps afraid to let go of the

doctors/medical path? ..........<snip>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You had mentioned that you had written posts regarding fatty livers before...

 

" INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo wrote:I'm happy to resend it, only

you cut enough text that I'm not sure which

thing to send Help! E

 

Debbie [aromatic_wings]

Sunday, March 20, 2005 8:35 PM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Fatty Livers and how can you fix them

 

 

 

 

Elchanan,

Oh by the way.... thanks as always for your very insightful thoughts

and posts.. I did try to look through the archives.. and tried the

search but did not come up with anything but my own posts.

 

rawfood , " INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo@e...>

wrote:

> Hi Gypsi,

>

> I did write a post on this but apparently did not save it. >

> *

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Omigod!!! I had the impression this woman was likely in her 60s or 70s! 23

years old!! Has she no family that might help her pay for at least a consult

or two with someone alternative? She does sound open-minded, or at least

curious, that is a plus, of course.

 

I know you only have electronic communications with her, but do you have

any sense that she is in a place of hopelessness/despair? I realize she says

she's going to make it etc, but underneath that, do you sense these feelings

down deeper? My growing sense is that, if this woman is to be helped,

someone is going to have to get involved in person, holding her hand in

loving support. Otherwise, she is unlikely to have either the energy or the

other resources required to fend for herself, especially as she is so deeply

mired in the med system.

 

You wrote:

 

I do feel a lot of her problem is fear of letting go of the DRs I am unsure

she should right now til she sees some changes

 

The docs have nothing that can help her other than to try and alleviate

symptoms, and even that will become increasingly difficult. I suggest that

the opposite is more likely, namely, that she can ONLY see forward progress

after she substantially separates from them, other than for maintenance

purposes.

 

I believe that one of the very greatest challenges anyone can ever face is

trying to move forward constructively from such an emotional place

(despair/hopelessness). Without a sense of possibility, there is really no

forward direction in which to point oneself, even vaguely, everything just

degenerates into a bunch of fuss over meaningless yet endless details. I do

truly hope this is not the case.

 

Do you think she has any capacity to travel somewhere (setting aside money

issues), as in to a place where she might stay for an extended period and

get well? This seems like a situation where a direct intervention or some

sort of drastic change is needed before dire consequences set in. Blood

sugar spiking into the 500s is hitting the level where a debilitating or

even fatal coma could set in, serious stuff.

_____

You wrote:

I am no where near her stage in life and sad to say she is half my age. I am

not diabetic but according to my dr. I was getting there fast if something

didn't change soon.. That was last year..maybe two years ago... The only

main problem symptom I feel I have is pain in my legs... but since eating

raw pretty much 90%... and especially fruits... they have felt much much

better. I can go up and down stairs now like anyone else.. before going down

stairs was one at a time sideways...I also have a problem with my right

knee...think due to degeneration and weight.... plus I can breath much much

better and have loads more energy..need it for my grandkids....hehehe....

can even keep up with my long legged hubby when we go shopping.. his 6'2 "

strides to my 5'4 " stride.. sure are different... my three to his

one...lol..anyway...

 

At least it sounds as if you are making GREAT progress in a short time!

Congratulations!!!

 

Where in you legs do you experience pain, and under what circumstances?

(sitting walking climbing wrestling ....)

 

I admire how you are so attentively trying to help this woman,

 

Elchanan

 

 

--

---------------------[ Ciphire Signature ]----------------------

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on 21 March 2005 at 06:24:33 UTC

rawfood

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: below are the sender's verifiable digital signature.

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[Guest guest]

Ahhh so many questions.. let me see if I can get them....thanks bunches for all

the concern too..

 

" INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo wrote:

Omigod!!! I had the impression this woman was likely in her 60s or 70s! 23

years old!! Has she no family that might help her pay for at least a consult

or two with someone alternative?

 

She has family and a husband.. I am unsure of how close or if her family can

help financially. Her husband is depending on her at the moment as he ahs his

own health issues. She is working at Delta as a CSR but due to the last hospital

stint..she is on undetermined medical leave. I would love for her to go to one

of the retreats I have seen that is down by San Antonio. I ahve not mentioned

this to her but was considering it. she ahs been wanting and talking about

" getting away " for a while now.

 

 

I know you only have electronic communications with her, but do you have any

sense that she is in a place of hopelessness/despair?

 

Yes, I do feel she is in a place such as this, but do not feel as if she would

like take her life or anything.. she is just too determined and frustrated for

that. She refuses to let this crap get her down and get the better of her.

 

I realize she says she's going to make it etc, but underneath that, do you sense

these feelings down deeper?

 

I am unsure what other kinds of deeper feelings you are speaking of. Sorry. I am

sure she deffinately needs support. But she..like me.. has support around her

but to how serious that support is ..is unknown. Her hubby is kind and gentle

and wants her healthy, but he is a bit older then her and I do not know if he

would poo pooh an alternative lifestyle and then not support it.. Like most they

would have to see the results first before believing strongly..which is sad.

 

 

The docs have nothing that can help her other than to try and alleviate

symptoms, and even that will become increasingly difficult. I suggest that the

opposite is more likely, namely, that she can ONLY see forward progress after

she substantially separates from them, other than for maintenance

purposes.

 

 

I agree with this totally and have expressed my feelings to her in just about

the same words. She seems very receptive of this information and I laughingly

say she is a rebell at heart. I am sure she would do two things here.. 1. go to

the dr see what they have to say.And get monitored in this way. Then 2. come

home and do the juicing and cleansing and eating much raw as possible to make

things go away... Even though I feel it is defeating the purpose to cleanse but

still take the meds.... I do not feel she should stop either...anything is

better then nothing.. would that not put her in a drastic setting for a sudden

medical catastrophe? Yes, I know at the rate she is going she is heading for one

anyway.. but geesh.. I am at a loss.. My hope is that eating better and eating

more fruits to cleanse will help her tremendously to where she can get those

sugars under control and she can start weaning off the meds.. this is my dream

for her. I will try to move her and inch her more away

from the Dr.s as possible. I would truely hate her to go into convulsions or

something because of me.

 

 

I believe that one of the very greatest challenges anyone can ever face is

trying to move forward constructively from such an emotional

place(despair/hopelessness). Without a sense of possibility, there is really no

forward direction in which to point oneself, even vaguely, everything just

degenerates into a bunch of fuss over meaningless yet endless details. I do

truly hope this is not the case.

 

I do not think that this is the deeper case... if it is, she sure hides it

well..but alot of this dispare she does show is frustration of not beating this.

And how thus far nothing has helped her.

 

Do you think she has any capacity to travel somewhere (setting aside money

issues), as in to a place where she might stay for an extended period and get

well?

 

As I say, I am unsure about this. she might be willing to do this and because

she gets free flights for working at Delta.. regarding the other monies needed I

do not know if or how she would be able to do this or if she would be willing

to. I would have to get back with you on this.

 

This seems like a situation where a direct intervention or some sort of drastic

change is needed before dire consequences set in. Blood sugar spiking into the

500s is hitting the level where a debilitating or even fatal coma could set in,

serious stuff.

 

This is what she is worried about the most. And why she has gone into the

hospital each time.. Just so that does not happen.. or they can catch it fast if

it did.

<snip>

 

Where in you legs do you experience pain, and under what circumstances?

(sitting walking climbing wrestling ....)

 

For me... I noticed this when I started a sit down job a few years ago..and this

was the last time I had had a seizure and was on meds for it..durning same job..

I do not believe one has anything to do with the other regarding my legs and the

seizure.... I have since stopped that job. It has been about 3 years now... But

the circumstances are most likely when I sit for some time.. or after walking

for a long period of time and then sitting for say 30 minutes.. When I go to get

up my lower back and the lower legs hurt (like the muscles in the front of my

legs) and creek like an old lady. Since eating raw and getting vitamins I had

not normally gotten before I am much more comfortable. I do still have problems

with my legs like falling asleep or numbing out if I sit at my pc for long

periods of time.. but I will get up and walk around or get outside and walk to

help this. My hubby moved us into a second floor apt just for this reason.

Figuring I needed more exercise (which we both do)

and going up and down the stairs everyday would help me in both weight and my

legs. And he has been right.. I am much better. When we first moved in I was

almost not able to make it up the stairs.. now I can pretty much get run up

them..there are about 30 steps almost straight up..lol... But there are still

some days.. and now I feel those days mostly when I fall from the plan and do

not eat correctly.

 

I admire how you are so attentively trying to help this woman,

 

Elchanan

 

Thanks so much Elchanan for all your support and help to me and your gentle

kindness to others.. You will be truely blessed, I am sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Fatty and LACED with toxins. We haven't even begun to discuss acrylamides

yet. Just in 2002, Swedish researchers accidentally discovered that many of

our " favorite " foods are just full of these highly carcinogenic,

devastatingly neurotoxic substances. At present, the WHO is sponsoring and

encouraging an array of studies all over the world on this. And the ONLY

solution is to stop cooking the food, particularly the starchy foods.

 

And of course that's just ONE family of toxins.

E

 

maureen smith [maureensgardengrotto]

Sunday, March 20, 2005 7:08 PM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Fatty Livers and how can you fix them

 

 

 

 

I have a friend who had cirrhosis of the liver. She never drank alcohol.

Her doctor told her to cut out potato chips, and many other snack type

starches that may have been fatty as well.

 

Maureen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

sorry, just don't know which post(s) this might have meant anymore.

E

 

Gypsi at www.aromaticwings.com [aromatic_wings]

Sunday, March 20, 2005 9:42 PM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Fatty Livers and how can you fix them

 

 

You had mentioned that you had written posts regarding fatty livers

before...

 

" INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo wrote:I'm happy to resend it,

only you cut enough text that I'm not sure which

thing to send Help! E

 

Debbie [aromatic_wings]

Sunday, March 20, 2005 8:35 PM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Fatty Livers and how can you fix them

 

 

 

 

Elchanan,

Oh by the way.... thanks as always for your very insightful thoughts

and posts.. I did try to look through the archives.. and tried the

search but did not come up with anything but my own posts.

 

rawfood , " INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo@e...>

wrote:

> Hi Gypsi,

>

> I did write a post on this but apparently did not save it. >

> *

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dr. Mercola has been on the bandwagon about this for some time:

http://www.mercola.com/2002/jul/3/fast_food.htm

 

Jesse

 

" INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo wrote:

 

Fatty and LACED with toxins. We haven't even begun to discuss acrylamides

yet. Just in 2002, Swedish researchers accidentally discovered that many of

our " favorite " foods are just full of these highly carcinogenic,

devastatingly neurotoxic substances. At present, the WHO is sponsoring and

encouraging an array of studies all over the world on this. And the ONLY

solution is to stop cooking the food, particularly the starchy foods. snip

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks!

 

Just FYI, this is NOT just a problem of fast food or junk food. This problem

is pervasive and can only be solved by not cooking the food.

E

 

Jesse Parris [studio53]

Monday, March 21, 2005 1:04 PM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Fatty Livers and how can you fix them

 

 

Dr. Mercola has been on the bandwagon about this for some time:

http://www.mercola.com/2002/jul/3/fast_food.htm

 

Jesse

 

" INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo wrote:

 

Fatty and LACED with toxins. We haven't even begun to discuss acrylamides

yet. Just in 2002, Swedish researchers accidentally discovered that many of

our " favorite " foods are just full of these highly carcinogenic,

devastatingly neurotoxic substances. At present, the WHO is sponsoring and

encouraging an array of studies all over the world on this. And the ONLY

solution is to stop cooking the food, particularly the starchy foods. snip

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

these were the first two messages on this subject...

 

Message 14823

Gypsi

Friday, March 18, 2005 1:05 PM

[Raw Food] Fatty Livers and how can you fix them

 

 

Can anyone discuss about fatty livers and how to fix them.. is there a way

to fix them??

 

Message 14828

 

" INFO @ Vibrant Life "

 

Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:25 pm

RE: [Raw Food] Fatty Livers and how can you fix them

Yes.

Stop eating high-fat foods, acid-forming foods, and foods high in nondigestible

(insoluble) fiber. I've written so many posts about related topics, and I know

you've been in the group for awhile and have seen them, so I'll stop here for

the moment.

Elchanan

[Guest guest]

Thanks, I'll look, this should <tm> enable me to find whatever I thought I

meant.

E

 

 

Gypsi at www.aromaticwings.com [aromatic_wings]

Monday, March 21, 2005 4:11 PM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Fatty Livers and how can you fix them

 

 

these were the first two messages on this subject...

 

Message 14823

Gypsi

Friday, March 18, 2005 1:05 PM

[Raw Food] Fatty Livers and how can you fix them

 

 

Can anyone discuss about fatty livers and how to fix them.. is there a way

to fix them??

 

Message 14828

 

" INFO @ Vibrant Life "

 

Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:25 pm

RE: [Raw Food] Fatty Livers and how can you fix them

Yes.

Stop eating high-fat foods, acid-forming foods, and foods high in

nondigestible (insoluble) fiber. I've written so many posts about related

topics, and I know you've been in the group for awhile and have seen them,

so I'll stop here for the moment.

Elchanan