Elchanan: Jan's request for personal background/info [s]

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

 

This is my fourth attempt since last night to get this post through . I

do not know whether this is arriving for others, but as far as I can tell,

keeps bouncing the message. So PLEASE forgive any duplication of this

message, that is not my intention at all.

Elchanan

_____

Jan writes:

 

I'd like to know what your credentials and

educational background are for dispensing all your

raw food and healthful living advice - and now

proposing to hold classes and workshops?

 

Your email address says " Vibrant Life INFO. " Are

you connected with the Web site?: <http://www.vibrantlife.com/>

http://www.vibrantlife.com/

 

and in a later email:

 

I do find it troublesome ... that you are dispensing so much

advice while so little seems to be known about your qualifications.

I think you owe to the group to come forward with this background

information.

_____

 

Thank you very much, Jan, for inviting me to share about myself personally.

 

Te begin with, I sense among your questions that you are really asking one

underlying question, which may be:

 

Elchanan, why should I trust and believe you?

 

I appreciate the need for such a question. We live in a deluge of

information, opinions, etc., and it is indeed difficult for any of us to

figure out what or whom to believe, particularly when communicating via the

Internet. So much information is missing.

 

My response is divided into 5 separate messages. There are 4 reposts,

including one from the SFLiving Foods group. In each of these messages, I

share some aspect about myself and my background. I did write a couple of

other messages, but apparently I did not save those. This represents what I

have.

 

This, of course, is the fifth message.

_____

 

Each of us has certain special gifts. Among mine are a capacity to attract,

filter, and synthesize information and somehow create understanding. All my

life, people have come to me, rolled their marbles (their data and

information) onto the table (so to speak), and asked me to tell them what

they have in front of them. This has been the case in my journey with

health, raw food, etc. (REPOST 1 of 4 adds a bit more.)

 

I am not a practitioner of anything. I do not practice, I create health for

myself and for others willing to walk with me. I distinguish between

creating health and treating symptoms (acute illness, chronic or

degenerative disease, etc.). I do not diagnose, for I do not label people. I

do not " prognose, " for I do not try and predict the future for other people.

And I do not " treat " anything, as I accept that I have no power to heal,

cure, etc. anything or anyone other than myself.

 

I live and teach personal responsibility and self-reliance. I create my

health or lack thereof, and you create yours. Not the government nor the

doctor (regardless of philosophy or orientation) nor anyone else can ever

make me -- or you -- healthy.

 

I do my best to share, with those interest in listening, information,

insights, experiences, etc. about how to create health. I do the same for

people interested in living their lives in service as a ministry, and for

people interested in achieving their goals and living in accordance with

their consciously chosen beliefs, values, intentions, and goals. In other

words, what I do is broad and integral in scope; what generally appears in

this group is only a slice of it.

 

So where do I get my " information, " understanding, etc? It is true that I

have a varied academic background. I have, at different times, studied

various periods of history, the Bibles, several languages, computer science,

business, human nature, natural law, common law, modern law, the Law of

Nations, physics, a bit of chemistry, biology, some psychology, etc.

 

And having said all that, I strongly encourage you not to believe a word I

-- or anyone -- says solely on the basis of any such background or

credentials. For the most part, they are meaningless. The more people we

license or certify, the less the licenses and certificates mean.

 

Long ago, I realized than if I really want to understand a field of study,

there are two things I MUST do. These are:

 

- Seek out the MOST knowledgeable people I can find, and go learn directly

from them.

- Seek out the ORIGINAL texts in that field, read those, forget all the

textbooks etc.

 

In other words learn from present masters and past/present originators. To

learn about the principles upon which America was founded, I read the

writings of the founders, not some textbook. How many of you who are

Americans have ever read the Declaration of Independence or the

Constitution, much less any of the Federalist Papers? Well, if you haven't,

and your liberties are disappearing, you haven't far to look for an

explanation!!

 

The same is true of health and nutrition. During the 1800s, there was a

great " battle " of sorts in this country and in Europe, between various

scientists who had great faith in Nature's design, and those who placed

their faith in modern science. The former created the fundamental theories

of raw foodism, among other things.

 

For example, Professor Pierre Jacques Antoine Bechamp, the great French

chemist and pharmacologist, studied fermentation, among other things. He

completely refuted research by Louis Pasteur in the area, proving that

certain living organisms (later found to be yeasts) were required in order

for fermentation to occur in sugared water. Bechamp also created the whole

model of acid-alkaline balance for health. This is the very foundation of

health and raw foodism. Using the pH model, each person can EASILY take

responsibility for his/her own health via nutritional choices, among other

things.

 

In contrast, Pasteur completely misunderstood fermentation, and he also came

up with " germ theory. " Although Pasteur later recanted his own work, the

medical world now had an " enemy " to fight, and we have been fighting germs

ever since. In contrast with Bechamp's work, using the germ theory model,

mainstream science has come to perceive our species in a perpetual war with

Nature, constantly under attack by germs, then viruses, now defective genes,

and who knows what in the future.

 

And based upon this underlying perspective, we are deluged with drugs,

treatments, etc. all designed to kill, suppress, etc. our body's own natural

and brilliant responses to conditions. This thinking is literally deranged,

in my opinion, even though it is reflected in an almost universal majority

of experimental research in progress today. And so, while I look at various

studies, undoubtedly more than most people, I see their flaws, I have the

math/statistics background and the language background to rip almost all

present-day studies to shreds in a heartbeat. Most of them really are that

weakly designed and executed.

 

But then you have to read the original -- the published studies themselves

-- and not articles about the studies. The articles are almost always just

plain garbage, if for no other reason than that reporters know just as much

as everyone else about science, namely, almost nothing.

 

Anyway, only by understanding the work of these two men, among others, can

we properly understand health, nutrition, and raw foodism. So what college

or university might you attend to gain such knowledge? Beats me! You have to

study THEIR work directly. Just as you have to read the Declaration of

Independence if you actually want to know what it says.

 

So that's how I seek knowledge, from the very best people and from

originators of things. And as a result, I perceive almost everything

differently than most people do, which probably shows up in what I write.

 

I search extensively, time permitting. My friend Laurie Masters adds her own

truly massive research talents. Between the two of us, and various others,

we come up with an amazing collection of material most of the time. For

example:

 

- Laurie has some incredibly valuable work coming in the future, just for

RFs, based upon all kinds of research around nutrient data. The bits of data

I drop into my various messages almost always originate in her work, as I've

acknowledged on a number of occasions.

 

- I am working on a study of salt, but not from a nutritional science

perspective, because this is basically worthless. Instead, I'm going back to

the underlying physics and chemistry, looking at the nature of water and the

relationship between salt and water. (Blood is mostly water.) This material

will also be available sometime later this year.

 

The point here is this: when this material comes forward, it will be built

upon but will not duplicate previous work. It will make new understanding

and insights available to many people.

 

This is my/our life's work, our calling to serve. I do hope this message

addresses, at least to a degree, your questions about me. Please ask more if

you wish!

 

Best to all,

Elchanan

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I'm a life-health coach and have been at this for ten years including curing

two incurable rare disorders (Blepharospasm & spasmodic Dysphonia) I find

Elchanan's information very accurate and refreshing even though I don't

completely agree with him in all cases. Bottom line is...In my feeble

opinion, if you listen to him you will do very well toward a journey of

total and vibrant wellness!

 

 

 

 

 

Steven Gibb

 

www.rawfriends.com <http://www.rawfriends.com/>

 

 

 

 

 

 

INFO @ Vibrant Life [VLinfo]

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 11:32 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Elchanan: Jan's request for personal background/info

Hi everyone,

This is my fourth attempt since last night to get this post through . I

do not know whether this is arriving for others, but as far as I can tell,

keeps bouncing the message. So PLEASE forgive any duplication of this

message, that is not my intention at all.

Elchanan

_____

Jan writes:

I'd like to know what your credentials and

educational background are for dispensing all your

raw food and healthful living advice - and now

proposing to hold classes and workshops?

Your email address says " Vibrant Life INFO. " Are

you connected with the Web site?: <http://www.vibrantlife.com/>

http://www.vibrantlife.com/

and in a later email:

I do find it troublesome ... that you are dispensing so much

advice while so little seems to be known about your qualifications.

I think you owe to the group to come forward with this background

information.

_____

Thank you very much, Jan, for inviting me to share about myself personally.

Te begin with, I sense among your questions that you are really asking one

underlying question, which may be:

Elchanan, why should I trust and believe you?

I appreciate the need for such a question. We live in a deluge of

information, opinions, etc., and it is indeed difficult for any of us to

figure out what or whom to believe, particularly when communicating via the

Internet. So much information is missing.

My response is divided into 5 separate messages. There are 4 reposts,

including one from the SFLiving Foods group. In each of these messages, I

share some aspect about myself and my background. I did write a couple of

other messages, but apparently I did not save those. This represents what I

have.

This, of course, is the fifth message.

_____

Each of us has certain special gifts. Among mine are a capacity to attract,

filter, and synthesize information and somehow create understanding. All my

life, people have come to me, rolled their marbles (their data and

information) onto the table (so to speak), and asked me to tell them what

they have in front of them. This has been the case in my journey with

health, raw food, etc. (REPOST 1 of 4 adds a bit more.)

I am not a practitioner of anything. I do not practice, I create health for

myself and for others willing to walk with me. I distinguish between

creating health and treating symptoms (acute illness, chronic or

degenerative disease, etc.). I do not diagnose, for I do not label people. I

do not " prognose, " for I do not try and predict the future for other people.

And I do not " treat " anything, as I accept that I have no power to heal,

cure, etc. anything or anyone other than myself.

I live and teach personal responsibility and self-reliance. I create my

health or lack thereof, and you create yours. Not the government nor the

doctor (regardless of philosophy or orientation) nor anyone else can ever

make me -- or you -- healthy.

I do my best to share, with those interest in listening, information,

insights, experiences, etc. about how to create health. I do the same for

people interested in living their lives in service as a ministry, and for

people interested in achieving their goals and living in accordance with

their consciously chosen beliefs, values, intentions, and goals. In other

words, what I do is broad and integral in scope; what generally appears in

this group is only a slice of it.

So where do I get my " information, " understanding, etc? It is true that I

have a varied academic background. I have, at different times, studied

various periods of history, the Bibles, several languages, computer science,

business, human nature, natural law, common law, modern law, the Law of

Nations, physics, a bit of chemistry, biology, some psychology, etc.

And having said all that, I strongly encourage you not to believe a word I

-- or anyone -- says solely on the basis of any such background or

credentials. For the most part, they are meaningless. The more people we

license or certify, the less the licenses and certificates mean.

Long ago, I realized than if I really want to understand a field of study,

there are two things I MUST do. These are:

- Seek out the MOST knowledgeable people I can find, and go learn directly

from them.

- Seek out the ORIGINAL texts in that field, read those, forget all the

textbooks etc.

In other words learn from present masters and past/present originators. To

learn about the principles upon which America was founded, I read the

writings of the founders, not some textbook. How many of you who are

Americans have ever read the Declaration of Independence or the

Constitution, much less any of the Federalist Papers? Well, if you haven't,

and your liberties are disappearing, you haven't far to look for an

explanation!!

The same is true of health and nutrition. During the 1800s, there was a

great " battle " of sorts in this country and in Europe, between various

scientists who had great faith in Nature's design, and those who placed

their faith in modern science. The former created the fundamental theories

of raw foodism, among other things.

For example, Professor Pierre Jacques Antoine Bechamp, the great French

chemist and pharmacologist, studied fermentation, among other things. He

completely refuted research by Louis Pasteur in the area, proving that

certain living organisms (later found to be yeasts) were required in order

for fermentation to occur in sugared water. Bechamp also created the whole

model of acid-alkaline balance for health. This is the very foundation of

health and raw foodism. Using the pH model, each person can EASILY take

responsibility for his/her own health via nutritional choices, among other

things.

In contrast, Pasteur completely misunderstood fermentation, and he also came

up with " germ theory. " Although Pasteur later recanted his own work, the

medical world now had an " enemy " to fight, and we have been fighting germs

ever since. In contrast with Bechamp's work, using the germ theory model,

mainstream science has come to perceive our species in a perpetual war with

Nature, constantly under attack by germs, then viruses, now defective genes,

and who knows what in the future.

And based upon this underlying perspective, we are deluged with drugs,

treatments, etc. all designed to kill, suppress, etc. our body's own natural

and brilliant responses to conditions. This thinking is literally deranged,

in my opinion, even though it is reflected in an almost universal majority

of experimental research in progress today. And so, while I look at various

studies, undoubtedly more than most people, I see their flaws, I have the

math/statistics background and the language background to rip almost all

present-day studies to shreds in a heartbeat. Most of them really are that

weakly designed and executed.

But then you have to read the original -- the published studies themselves

-- and not articles about the studies. The articles are almost always just

plain garbage, if for no other reason than that reporters know just as much

as everyone else about science, namely, almost nothing.

Anyway, only by understanding the work of these two men, among others, can

we properly understand health, nutrition, and raw foodism. So what college

or university might you attend to gain such knowledge? Beats me! You have to

study THEIR work directly. Just as you have to read the Declaration of

Independence if you actually want to know what it says.

So that's how I seek knowledge, from the very best people and from

originators of things. And as a result, I perceive almost everything

differently than most people do, which probably shows up in what I write.

I search extensively, time permitting. My friend Laurie Masters adds her own

truly massive research talents. Between the two of us, and various others,

we come up with an amazing collection of material most of the time. For

example:

- Laurie has some incredibly valuable work coming in the future, just for

RFs, based upon all kinds of research around nutrient data. The bits of data

I drop into my various messages almost always originate in her work, as I've

acknowledged on a number of occasions.

- I am working on a study of salt, but not from a nutritional science

perspective, because this is basically worthless. Instead, I'm going back to

the underlying physics and chemistry, looking at the nature of water and the

relationship between salt and water. (Blood is mostly water.) This material

will also be available sometime later this year.

The point here is this: when this material comes forward, it will be built

upon but will not duplicate previous work. It will make new understanding

and insights available to many people.

This is my/our life's work, our calling to serve. I do hope this message

addresses, at least to a degree, your questions about me. Please ask more if

you wish!

Best to all,

Elchanan

--

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rawfood

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[Guest guest]

Steven wrote:

 

I'm a life-health coach and have been at this for ten years including curing

two incurable rare disorders (Blepharospasm & spasmodic Dysphonia) I find

Elchanan's information very accurate and refreshing even though I don't

completely agree with him in all cases. Bottom line is...In my feeble

opinion, if you listen to him you will do very well toward a journey of

total and vibrant wellness!

 

Steven Gibb

 

www.rawfriends.com < <http://www.rawfriends.com/>

http://www.rawfriends.com/>

_____

 

Wow Steven, thanks!!! Blepharospasm, now that IS uncommon. I can only

imagine that it was very uncomfortable at the time.

 

BTW, I truly am grateful to anyone who points out anything in what I share

that may seem inaccurate, missing, or that may otherwise benefit from some

improvement. My friend Laurie does from time to time, as you've seen! :)

 

Best to all,

Elchanan

 

 

--

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rawfood

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[Guest guest]

Elchanan,

 

Okay, thanks for sharing that glimpse into your " calling to serve. " It

was interesting reading, but frankly, I don't feel it provided the

" bio " that I was looking for as it pertains to the information and

advice you dispense to this group. You're set yourself up as an

authority of sorts on raw foodism and healthful living, and then say

that we should trust and believe what you present because you have a

" special gift. "

 

If you don't mind, I'll take you up on your offer to ask a few more

questions:

 

1. What is your formal education? Do you have a college degree? If

so, in what field?

2. How do you currently earn a living?

3. What is the nature of your " ministry " ? Is it associated with a

particular religion?

4. What is your age - or age range (20s, 30s, 40s...)?

5. What does the " " mean at the end of the subject line in your

posts?

» RE:

» Long ago, I realized than if I really want to understand a field of

study,

» there are two things I MUST do. These are:

» - Seek out the MOST knowledgeable people I can find, and go learn

» directly from them.

» - Seek out the ORIGINAL texts in that field, read those, forget all

the

» textbooks etc.

In the field of raw foodism, nutrition and related health issues, who

are the most knowledgeable people you have sought out and learned from?

What original texts in this field have you read?

Hypothetical: If you had the symptoms of acute appendicitis [severe

abdominal pain and swelling, nausea, vomiting, elevated temperature,

etc.], and you were told it was a medical emergency that required

immediate surgery, what would you do? Would you try to heal yourself -

or would you proceed with the surgery by an experienced surgeon with

credentials in his or her field?

-- Jan

[Guest guest]

Jan writes/answers inline this time:

 

If you don't mind, I'll take you up on your offer to ask a few more

questions:

 

1. What is your formal education? Do you have a college degree? If

so, in what field?

 

BA History & Judaic/Biblical Studies, University of Cincinnati, 1974,

completed 4-year program in 2 years, Phi Beta Kappa. Extra coursework in

human anatomy and physiology, mathematics, physics, several ancient

languages. Full academic scholarships.

 

No degree, Computer science/systems design, University of Cincinnati,

1976-1977.

 

Founder/Director, Rehabilitation Program in Data Processing, University of

Cincinnati, 1977-1980. In this program, we trained adults with diverse

" handicaps " (physical and emotional) for jobs as computer programmers

(high-level, NOT just operators and such.) All but one graduate placed in

commensurate employment during my tenure in the program. Initiated the first

accessible transpiration at the University. Implemented the first

CETA-funded attendant care (for severe handicaps) program in the country.

This was my first major exposure to the medical system, to hands-on health

care, to transitioning from lethargy back to work, and a whole host of other

things. Continued to learn from this point forward.

 

MBA Kellogg Grad. School of Management, Northwestern University, 1982

Strategy, marketing, accounting/finance. Full academic scholarship.

 

1982-1999, various high-tech activities, primarily entrepreneurial. During

most of this time, I consulted with high-tech startups, helping prepare

business plans, brought more than $35 million into various ventures. While

some involved computer technology of various sorts, I was most fortunate to

attract clients with new technologies in particle physics, wave physics,

water chemistry and purification, various nutritional and health

technologies, RF technologies (communications, health), and so on. I spent a

LOT of time working one-on-one with top scientists and inventors in diverse

fields. Here I really was learning from the very best from Stanford,

Berkeley, Xerox Park, etc.

 

1999 Left all that behind and entered life service as a ministry. Presiding

Chaplain, Vibrant Life. Vibrant Life is a nondenominational, nonsectarian,

nonhierarchical, eleemosynary ecclesiastical corporation sole. This ministry

focuses on our relationship with science and Nature, subconscious change in

alignment with conscious choices, health and vitality, among other things.

Launching Living As An Ecclesiastical Ministry educational program

summer/fall 2005.

 

As for anyone there is much more, but ... hopefully this is sufficient for

comfort, or for not comfort.

 

2. How do you currently earn a living?

 

I do not " earn a living. " This ministry is funded entirely by donations. In

fact, WRT the summer camp idea I mentioned a few days ago, the entire

program will run on requested donations from participants. No one will be

excluded for lack of funds.

 

3. What is the nature of your " ministry " ? Is it associated with a

particular religion?

 

Already answered above.

 

4. What is your age - or age range (20s, 30s, 40s...)?

50 and 2/3, give or take a couple of days.

 

5. What does the " " mean at the end of the subject line?

I use Ciphire Mail to encrypt email between myself and others where we both

wish to maintain privacy. When I send email to anyone who is not a Ciphire

user, the message cannot be encrypted. Instead, Ciphire applies an

electronic signature to the message, hence it is " signed. " (the " s " ) This

signature can be used by any recipient to verify that the message originates

from me ( " authenticate the message.

More questions, feel free!

Elchanan

--

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rawfood

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[Guest guest]

Fair enough, Elchanan. It's more than sufficient for comfort. I

appreciate your forthrightness in addressing the questions. :-)

 

You didn't answer the second part of my message, however, where I had

quoted back part of your text for reference. I noticed, when I read

the message after posting, that the keyboard characters I used for the

quoteback didn't come through properly. So perhaps that portion got

obliterated in your email program. Here it is again:

 

On Mar 23, 2005, at 11:32 AM, INFO @ Vibrant Life wrote:

> Long ago, I realized than if I really want to understand a field of

> study,

> there are two things I MUST do. These are:

>

> - Seek out the MOST knowledgeable people I can find, and go learn

> directly from them.

> - Seek out the ORIGINAL texts in that field, read those, forget all

> the textbooks etc.

 

In the field of raw foodism, nutrition and related health issues, who

are the most knowledgeable people you have sought out and learned from?

What original texts in this field have you read?

 

Hypothetical: If you had the symptoms of acute appendicitis [severe

abdominal pain and swelling, nausea, vomiting, elevated temperature,

etc.], and you were told it was a medical emergency that required

immediate surgery, what would you do? Would you try to heal yourself

-- or would you proceed with the surgery by an experienced surgeon with

credentials in his or her field?

 

-- Jan

[Guest guest]

rawfood , Jan <jantese@g...> wrote:

> Fair enough, Elchanan. It's more than sufficient for comfort. I

> appreciate your forthrightness in addressing the questions. :-)

>

> You didn't answer the second part of my message, however, where I

had

> quoted back part of your text for reference. I noticed, when I

read

> the message after posting, that the keyboard characters I used for

the

> quoteback didn't come through properly. So perhaps that portion

got

> obliterated in your email program. Here it is again:

>

> On Mar 23, 2005, at 11:32 AM, INFO @ Vibrant Life wrote:

> > Long ago, I realized than if I really want to understand a field

of

> > study,

> > there are two things I MUST do. These are:

> >

> > - Seek out the MOST knowledgeable people I can find, and go learn

> > directly from them.

> > - Seek out the ORIGINAL texts in that field, read those, forget

all

> > the textbooks etc.

>

> In the field of raw foodism, nutrition and related health issues,

who

> are the most knowledgeable people you have sought out and learned

from?

> What original texts in this field have you read?

 

Who cares, say what you want, it's just information. Each person has

to take responsibility for their own actions after receiving whatever

information they do. I haven't read any books about raw food. I

have a food plan that works for me, if I can help someone else,

great, if not, that's just as well.

 

We don't need any authority to talk about what we believe in on

here. It's an internet forum, it's not a licensed practitioners

office. There's no state regulations here. If the information is

useful to you, use it, if not, disregard it. This is the

responsibility of any adult human.

 

I don't get the authority to say what I say from anything in

particular.

 

>

> Hypothetical: If you had the symptoms of acute appendicitis

[severe

> abdominal pain and swelling, nausea, vomiting, elevated

temperature,

> etc.], and you were told it was a medical emergency that required

> immediate surgery, what would you do? Would you try to heal

yourself

> -- or would you proceed with the surgery by an experienced surgeon

with

> credentials in his or her field?

>

> -- Jan

 

I'd tell anyone with a physical ailment to utilize doctors and

hospitals. They're great things and have helped many. They're very

knowledgeable and skillful at physical healing. I'm forever grateful

for the doctor who operated on my heal bone when I broke it. I

wouldn't be able to walk right if he hadn't been available.

 

But I appreciate your questioning Elchanan, Jan. I think that's a

good thing too.

[Guest guest]

Jan writes:

 

In the field of raw foodism, nutrition and related health issues, who

are the most knowledgeable people you have sought out and learned from?

What original texts in this field have you read?

 

Hypothetical: If you had the symptoms of acute appendicitis [severe

abdominal pain and swelling, nausea, vomiting, elevated temperature,

etc.], and you were told it was a medical emergency that required

immediate surgery, what would you do? Would you try to heal yourself

-- or would you proceed with the surgery by an experienced surgeon with

credentials in his or her field?

_____

 

Hi Jan, thanks again for your further questions. Just to let you know, I am

turning my attention to some other projects for the next 5 days or so and

will minimize my posting to this group during that time.

 

The following are ONLY brief lists of examples that happen to come to mind

right now, I am not taking time to think it over, and these are not

comprehensive lists.

 

RF: Herbert Shelton, TC Fry, Doug Graham, Ray Kent, Bechamp, Kouchakoff,

Arnold Ehret, others.

 

Nutrition and health: T. Colin Campbell, various reports from the Framingham

study, many others.

 

Spiritual/energetic nature of healing and health: DD Palmer (originator of

Chiropractic), various healers from other cultures, Essene Gospel of Peace

(this is a translation of a copper scroll found in the Vatican library

during the 1920s, containing Jesus' direct explanations of raw foodism and

fasting, among other things), and many others.

 

Cellular biology (recent): Bruce Lipton, among others.

 

Genetics: numerous: obviously Watson and Crick, " discoverers " of the

double-helix; John Cairns, who set their work on its ears with some work

published in and since 1988, various writings from and about the human

genome project, others.

 

Nature of science: Aristotle, Plato, Newton, R. Bacon, Einstein, Heisenberg.

others.

 

Physics/astronomy/mathematics: Archimedes, Pythagoras, Euclid, Kepler,

Newton, R. Bacon, Einstein, Oppenheimer, Heisenberg, etc.

 

Enough on this question!

_____

Regarding your example, I would not die in order to eat! So if I ever were

confronted with such a situation, I would choose the surgeon. Someone who

lives as I do will never be faced with any example such as you present, so

how about a more realistic example.

 

The one and only circumstance in which I would see myself, personally,

seeking mainstream medical assistance would be in the event of a trauma

--serious physical injury. In fact, I HAVE experienced this.

 

In August 2003 CE, due to a weird circumstance I lost the sight in my right

eye, overnight. I DID take some drops to bring the eye pressure down

somewhat. Now, the ophthalmologists told me I'd be using drops the rest of

my life OR I'd need surgery.

 

I took the drops for about 2 months, during which time I learned about

natural vision healing and also did some MAJOR subconscious programming. End

of drops, the pressure in my eye is normal, no pain or irritation anymore.

 

One thing about which we speak little in this group (so far is the role

of the mind in health. It is HUGE, but that is a topic for another post.

 

 

 

 

 

--

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rawfood

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[Guest guest]

" INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo wrote:

 

One thing about which we speak little in this group (so far is the role

of the mind in health. It is HUGE, but that is a topic for another post.

 

 

 

_______________

 

 

 

looking forward to this topic...

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

As am I, yet with some trepidation, as it is a very large topic.

 

Gypsi at www.aromaticwings.com [aromatic_wings]

Thursday, March 24, 2005 10:48 AM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Elchanan: Jan's request for personal background/info

 

 

 

 

" INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo wrote:

 

One thing about which we speak little in this group (so far is the role

of the mind in health. It is HUGE, but that is a topic for another post.

_______________

 

looking forward to this topic...

 

 

 

--

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[Guest guest]

On Mar 24, 2005, at 9:58 AM, Froggy wrote:

> Who cares, say what you want, it's just information. Each person has

> to take responsibility for their own actions after receiving whatever

> information they do.

 

Well, I care! And I think others in this group should care as well.

Unlike other group members - who mainly share anecdotal experiences and

opinions, or cite source material - Elchanan has posted prolifically

in a dogmatic manner on a wide range of topics, has invited people to

telephone him for individual counseling, and has proposed organizing

classes and workshops.

 

With this air of authority, along with a " ministry " charisma and a

biblical sounding username (in contrast to " Froggy " ...[g]), people

would have a tendency to take what he says as gospel - especially those

who join this group seeking to heal various ailments. Thus, I think it

was important that he provide some background information to help

establish credibility.

 

To Elchanan: Thank you for so graciously providing your personal data

and " knowledgeable " sources. I shall sleep better tonight. :-) I'm

also glad to know that you don't totally eschew conventional medicine

as I have seen other raw food gurus do.

 

-- Jan

[Guest guest]

I see what you're saying. Elchanan has his growth to do, just as I

have mine and the rest of us have theirs. I'm not much into long

discussions about things, especially from the scientific end. But

that's just me. Others appreciate greatly what Elchanan has to say

and he's loyally on here working with people all the time. I'm a

little leary of all the advice giving and being thanked for the

advice left and right. There's no gurus here, no one should be on a

pedestal. And no one should want to be on a pedestal, but that comes

from someone who has a God in his life. Others have to decide what

they want for themselves.

 

Froggy makes me sound like such a fun guy, doesn't it? I like to put

a little humor into things. But as you can see, I can get real

serious about this diet too, because it is very serious for my peace

of mind. And Rich is such a normal sounding name, isn't it?

 

rawfood , Jan <jantese@g...> wrote:

> On Mar 24, 2005, at 9:58 AM, Froggy wrote:

> > Who cares, say what you want, it's just information. Each person

has

> > to take responsibility for their own actions after receiving

whatever

> > information they do.

>

> Well, I care! And I think others in this group should care as

well.

> Unlike other group members - who mainly share anecdotal experiences

and

> opinions, or cite source material - Elchanan has posted

prolifically

> in a dogmatic manner on a wide range of topics, has invited people

to

> telephone him for individual counseling, and has proposed

organizing

> classes and workshops.

>

> With this air of authority, along with a " ministry " charisma and a

> biblical sounding username (in contrast to " Froggy " ...[g]), people

> would have a tendency to take what he says as gospel - especially

those

> who join this group seeking to heal various ailments. Thus, I

think it

> was important that he provide some background information to help

> establish credibility.

>

> To Elchanan: Thank you for so graciously providing your personal

data

> and " knowledgeable " sources. I shall sleep better tonight. :-)

I'm

> also glad to know that you don't totally eschew conventional

medicine

> as I have seen other raw food gurus do.

>

> -- Jan