Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Tess writes: I know several people have posted about the need to get regular exposure to sunshine and on as much of your body is possible without sunscreen. Can anyone elaborate on the skin cancer/premature aging/wrinkles link to sun exposure that is so pervasive in advertising and medical studies. I am not putting much trust in the current medical theories anymore, but would rather err on the side of caution if need be. Is sunscreen harmful? _____ Medicine is an industry, not a science. The term " medical science " is an oxymoron. And in few cases is this more apparent than with respect to all this nonsense about the sun harming us, causing melanoma and a host of other maladies. If the medical industry ever produced anything that just 100% sheer nonsense, this is it. The sun fuels all life on this planet. Not one animal in Nature in the known history of the world has ever suffered from sun cancer, or even from sun burn, due to sun exposure, except for us humans, and then only in very recent time. Melanoma was never an issue from an historical perspective. In the so-called " underdeveloped countries, " where people have worked in the fields all day, every day, right through that awful midday sun, for a lifetime, no one has melanoma. No one has sun burn. No one has sun anything. Now these ignorant, undereducated people in these underdeveloped countries move around while they work. They change their orientation toward the sun constantly, just as any " normal " animal would. So let's turn our attention to what MUST be " abnormal " animals. In Australia, the US, and other " developed " countries, office and factory workers, many of whom haven't been in the sun in months or even years, coat themselves with " sun screen " and go sit outside for hours on end. Further, they sit by water, which reflects the sunlight right onto them and therefore intensifies its effects. They do not move, the just " face the sun. " And they ALL suffer from sun burn, skin dehydration in various forms, and eventually serious skin problems such as wrinkling (severe dehydration) and even melanoma. Yet these educated people from these developed countries spend far LESS time in the sun than those poor fools living in those backward, underdeveloped countries. It does not matter how many studies " show " a relationship between sun exposure and melanoma. They are studying the wrong variables, asking the wrong questions, before they even begin the studies. They never consider the effects of the sun screen products. They never apply the known principles of vital adaptation. And they abuse statistical analysis techniques. In applied mathematics (statistics), correlation NEVER indicates causation, and in few instances is that principle more applicable than with respect to all these studies. The ONLY purpose of all those studies is to sell sun screen and other skin stuff. Just reject the whole body of it, lock, stock, and barrel. PLEASE!!! for your own sake. Save your money and go play somewhere and have fun. You'll get your money's worth that way! Best to all, Elchanan -- ---------------------[ Ciphire Signature ]---------------------- vlinfo signed email body (2556 characters) on 24 March 2005 at 20:31:41 UTC rawfood ------------------------------- : Ciphire has secured this email against identity theft. : Free download at www.ciphire.com. The garbled lines : below are the sender's verifiable digital signature. ------------------------------- 00fAAAAAEAAACtI0NC/AkAANcCAAIAAgACACBZ36NZd8ice9rJ4ZlYrt6BrEjH8O zzmKDQLsTNDUWDmAEAhgSkE5NuzzvORJkeFIi/NVXB9GCG1XVfaMj+yPGZ0X1SG1 YG5pxeRMjHk1aG/u2vtqgN5/jR/YvPh5JwER1qlg== ------------------[ End Ciphire Signed Message ]---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Read Kimes book called sunlight or " The Healing Sun " by Richard Hobday! Both are excellent in their own way! INFO @ Vibrant Life [VLinfo] Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:31 PM rawfood RE: [Raw Food] sun exposure Tess writes: I know several people have posted about the need to get regular exposure to sunshine and on as much of your body is possible without sunscreen. Can anyone elaborate on the skin cancer/premature aging/wrinkles link to sun exposure that is so pervasive in advertising and medical studies. I am not putting much trust in the current medical theories anymore, but would rather err on the side of caution if need be. Is sunscreen harmful? _____ Medicine is an industry, not a science. The term " medical science " is an oxymoron. And in few cases is this more apparent than with respect to all this nonsense about the sun harming us, causing melanoma and a host of other maladies. If the medical industry ever produced anything that just 100% sheer nonsense, this is it. The sun fuels all life on this planet. Not one animal in Nature in the known history of the world has ever suffered from sun cancer, or even from sun burn, due to sun exposure, except for us humans, and then only in very recent time. Melanoma was never an issue from an historical perspective. In the so-called " underdeveloped countries, " where people have worked in the fields all day, every day, right through that awful midday sun, for a lifetime, no one has melanoma. No one has sun burn. No one has sun anything. Now these ignorant, undereducated people in these underdeveloped countries move around while they work. They change their orientation toward the sun constantly, just as any " normal " animal would. So let's turn our attention to what MUST be " abnormal " animals. In Australia, the US, and other " developed " countries, office and factory workers, many of whom haven't been in the sun in months or even years, coat themselves with " sun screen " and go sit outside for hours on end. Further, they sit by water, which reflects the sunlight right onto them and therefore intensifies its effects. They do not move, the just " face the sun. " And they ALL suffer from sun burn, skin dehydration in various forms, and eventually serious skin problems such as wrinkling (severe dehydration) and even melanoma. Yet these educated people from these developed countries spend far LESS time in the sun than those poor fools living in those backward, underdeveloped countries. It does not matter how many studies " show " a relationship between sun exposure and melanoma. They are studying the wrong variables, asking the wrong questions, before they even begin the studies. They never consider the effects of the sun screen products. They never apply the known principles of vital adaptation. And they abuse statistical analysis techniques. In applied mathematics (statistics), correlation NEVER indicates causation, and in few instances is that principle more applicable than with respect to all these studies. The ONLY purpose of all those studies is to sell sun screen and other skin stuff. Just reject the whole body of it, lock, stock, and barrel. PLEASE!!! for your own sake. Save your money and go play somewhere and have fun. You'll get your money's worth that way! Best to all, Elchanan -- ---------------------[ Ciphire Signature ]---------------------- vlinfo signed email body (2556 characters) on 24 March 2005 at 20:31:41 UTC rawfood ------------------------------- : Ciphire has secured this email against identity theft. : Free download at www.ciphire.com. The garbled lines : below are the sender's verifiable digital signature. ------------------------------- 00fAAAAAEAAACtI0NC/AkAANcCAAIAAgACACBZ36NZd8ice9rJ4ZlYrt6BrEjH8O zzmKDQLsTNDUWDmAEAhgSkE5NuzzvORJkeFIi/NVXB9GCG1XVfaMj+yPGZ0X1SG1 YG5pxeRMjHk1aG/u2vtqgN5/jR/YvPh5JwER1qlg== ------------------[ End Ciphire Signed Message ]---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I agree about medicine being an industry, and an industry that seems to me more and more, built on fear. and yeah!!!...I love the feel of the warm sunlight on my skin. Can't wait for it to finally peak out here in Tennessee so that I can soak some up. I have never been a sun " bather " ...lying out in the sun to get a tan. But I do love to hike and swim and just be in nature. And have always hated the feel and smell of sunscreen, and how it blocks the skin from breathing. I feel slimy when I wear it. Once again, I could have just listened to my body's intuition and found the answers I suppose. Tess > _____ > > Medicine is an industry, not a science. The term " medical science " is an > oxymoron. And in few cases is this more apparent than with respect to all > this nonsense about the sun harming us, causing melanoma and a host of other > maladies. If the medical industry ever produced anything that just 100% > sheer nonsense, this is it. > > The sun fuels all life on this planet. Not one animal in Nature in the known > history of the world has ever suffered from sun cancer, or even from sun > burn, due to sun exposure, except for us humans, and then only in very > recent time. Melanoma was never an issue from an historical perspective. > > In the so-called " underdeveloped countries, " where people have worked in the > fields all day, every day, right through that awful midday sun, for a > lifetime, no one has melanoma. No one has sun burn. No one has sun anything. > Now these ignorant, undereducated people in these underdeveloped countries > move around while they work. They change their orientation toward the sun > constantly, just as any " normal " animal would. > > So let's turn our attention to what MUST be " abnormal " animals. In > Australia, the US, and other " developed " countries, office and factory > workers, many of whom haven't been in the sun in months or even years, coat > themselves with " sun screen " and go sit outside for hours on end. Further, > they sit by water, which reflects the sunlight right onto them and therefore > intensifies its effects. They do not move, the just " face the sun. " And they > ALL suffer from sun burn, skin dehydration in various forms, and eventually > serious skin problems such as wrinkling (severe dehydration) and even > melanoma. Yet these educated people from these developed countries spend far > LESS time in the sun than those poor fools living in those backward, > underdeveloped countries. > > It does not matter how many studies " show " a relationship between sun > exposure and melanoma. They are studying the wrong variables, asking the > wrong questions, before they even begin the studies. They never consider the > effects of the sun screen products. They never apply the known principles of > vital adaptation. > > And they abuse statistical analysis techniques. In applied mathematics > (statistics), correlation NEVER indicates causation, and in few instances is > that principle more applicable than with respect to all these studies. > > The ONLY purpose of all those studies is to sell sun screen and other skin > stuff. Just reject the whole body of it, lock, stock, and barrel. PLEASE!!! > for your own sake. > > Save your money and go play somewhere and have fun. You'll get your money's > worth that way! > > Best to all, > Elchanan > > > > > -- > ---------------------[ Ciphire Signature ]---------------------- > vlinfo@e... signed email body (2556 characters) > on 24 March 2005 at 20:31:41 UTC > rawfood > ------------------------------- > : Ciphire has secured this email against identity theft. > : Free download at www.ciphire.com. The garbled lines > : below are the sender's verifiable digital signature. > ------------------------------- > 00fAAAAAEAAACtI0NC/AkAANcCAAIAAgACACBZ36NZd8ice9rJ4ZlYrt6BrEjH8O > zzmKDQLsTNDUWDmAEAhgSkE5NuzzvORJkeFIi/NVXB9GCG1XVfaMj+yPGZ0X1SG1 > YG5pxeRMjHk1aG/u2vtqgN5/jR/YvPh5JwER1qlg== > ------------------[ End Ciphire Signed Message ]---------------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Thanks! I'll see if I can find those. rawfood , " Steven " <rawfasting@e...> wrote: > Read Kimes book called sunlight or " The Healing Sun " by Richard Hobday! Both > are excellent in their own way! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 tesser2u [tesser2u] Thursday, March 24, 2005 12:53 PM rawfood Re: [Raw Food] sun exposure I agree about medicine being an industry, and an industry that seems to me more and more, built on fear. and yeah!!!...I love the feel of the warm sunlight on my skin. Can't wait for it to finally peak out here in Tennessee so that I can soak some up. I have never been a sun " bather " ...lying out in the sun to get a tan. But I do love to hike and swim and just be in nature. And have always hated the feel and smell of sunscreen, and how it blocks the skin from breathing. I feel slimy when I wear it. Once again, I could have just listened to my body's intuition and found the answers I suppose. Tess > _____ > > Medicine is an industry, not a science. The term " medical science " is an > oxymoron. And in few cases is this more apparent than with respect to all > this nonsense about the sun harming us, causing melanoma and a host of other > maladies. If the medical industry ever produced anything that just 100% > sheer nonsense, this is it. > > The sun fuels all life on this planet. Not one animal in Nature in the known > history of the world has ever suffered from sun cancer, or even from sun > burn, due to sun exposure, except for us humans, and then only in very > recent time. Melanoma was never an issue from an historical perspective. > > In the so-called " underdeveloped countries, " where people have worked in the > fields all day, every day, right through that awful midday sun, for a > lifetime, no one has melanoma. No one has sun burn. No one has sun anything. > Now these ignorant, undereducated people in these underdeveloped countries > move around while they work. They change their orientation toward the sun > constantly, just as any " normal " animal would. > > So let's turn our attention to what MUST be " abnormal " animals. In > Australia, the US, and other " developed " countries, office and factory > workers, many of whom haven't been in the sun in months or even years, coat > themselves with " sun screen " and go sit outside for hours on end. Further, > they sit by water, which reflects the sunlight right onto them and therefore > intensifies its effects. They do not move, the just " face the sun. " And they > ALL suffer from sun burn, skin dehydration in various forms, and eventually > serious skin problems such as wrinkling (severe dehydration) and even > melanoma. Yet these educated people from these developed countries spend far > LESS time in the sun than those poor fools living in those backward, > underdeveloped countries. > > It does not matter how many studies " show " a relationship between sun > exposure and melanoma. They are studying the wrong variables, asking the > wrong questions, before they even begin the studies. They never consider the > effects of the sun screen products. They never apply the known principles of > vital adaptation. > > And they abuse statistical analysis techniques. In applied mathematics > (statistics), correlation NEVER indicates causation, and in few instances is > that principle more applicable than with respect to all these studies. > > The ONLY purpose of all those studies is to sell sun screen and other skin > stuff. Just reject the whole body of it, lock, stock, and barrel. PLEASE!!! > for your own sake. > > Save your money and go play somewhere and have fun. You'll get your money's > worth that way! > > Best to all, > Elchanan > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 This is an interesting topic to me, because I am very fair skinned and have always had to be careful in the sun. I've even experienced " sun poisening " before; a couple of times I've gotten such a bad sunburn I would pass out from the pain and felt feverish as well. And that was always after being inside all winter and then suddenly being in the sun for hours at a time. But a few years ago my brother warned me of sunscreen as well and advised me to get more sun. So I did, I slowly sat in the sun and slowly got more red, eventually a little bit brown (brown/red for me). I did this for a couple of years, I live in Texas and it is hot here and the sun is very intense as well. So after a couple of years of doing this every summer I now have a lot of sun spots on my face. Is that OK? Wouldn't that eventually lead to melanoma? Also, I've heard that the foods we eat (especially sugar and additives) can actually be the cause of a lot of sunburning going on. My sister on the other hand has always been a very faithful sunscreen applier and her skin is actually very young looking and she doesn't have one sun spot and she eats the standard American diet! I guess these are my observations of personal " sunbathing " for the past 3 years. I don't go out in the sun very often especially in the heat of the summer. If I do I get a very bad sunburn. If I have to take my kids to the pool and there isn't shade available and I can't use sunscreen is the only other option to sit under a layer of clothes and sweat (because it gets really hot here and you can actually suffer from a heat stroke if you're not careful)? I just want to know of the other options because I haven't heard of a reasonable one yet. Rachel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Would REALLY appreciate input on this one before I respond, for now I'm just asking her a few questions. Follows. Rachel [racheladair] Thursday, March 24, 2005 4:06 PM rawfood Re: [Raw Food] sun exposure This is an interesting topic to me, because I am very fair skinned and have always had to be careful in the sun. I've even experienced " sun poisening " before; a couple of times I've gotten such a bad sunburn I would pass out from the pain and felt feverish as well. And that was always after being inside all winter and then suddenly being in the sun for hours at a time. But a few years ago my brother warned me of sunscreen as well and advised me to get more sun. So I did, I slowly sat in the sun and slowly got more red, eventually a little bit brown (brown/red for me). I did this for a couple of years, I live in Texas and it is hot here and the sun is very intense as well. So after a couple of years of doing this every summer I now have a lot of sun spots on my face. Is that OK? Wouldn't that eventually lead to melanoma? Also, I've heard that the foods we eat (especially sugar and additives) can actually be the cause of a lot of sunburning going on. My sister on the other hand has always been a very faithful sunscreen applier and her skin is actually very young looking and she doesn't have one sun spot and she eats the standard American diet! I guess these are my observations of personal " sunbathing " for the past 3 years. I don't go out in the sun very often especially in the heat of the summer. If I do I get a very bad sunburn. If I have to take my kids to the pool and there isn't shade available and I can't use sunscreen is the only other option to sit under a layer of clothes and sweat (because it gets really hot here and you can actually suffer from a heat stroke if you're not careful)? I just want to know of the other options because I haven't heard of a reasonable one yet. Rachel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I forgot to mention that last summer I stopped doing the sun exposure thing after I realized I was getting sun spots. Rachel rawfood , " INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo@e...> wrote: > Would REALLY appreciate input on this one before I respond, for now I'm just > asking her a few questions. Follows. > > Rachel [racheladair@c...] > Thursday, March 24, 2005 4:06 PM > rawfood > Re: [Raw Food] sun exposure > > > > This is an interesting topic to me, because I am very fair skinned > and have always had to be careful in the sun. I've even > experienced " sun poisening " before; a couple of times I've gotten > such a bad sunburn I would pass out from the pain and felt feverish > as well. And that was always after being inside all winter and then > suddenly being in the sun for hours at a time. But a few years ago > my brother warned me of sunscreen as well and advised me to get more > sun. So I did, I slowly sat in the sun and slowly got more red, > eventually a little bit brown (brown/red for me). I did this for a > couple of years, I live in Texas and it is hot here and the sun is > very intense as well. So after a couple of years of doing this > every summer I now have a lot of sun spots on my face. Is that OK? > Wouldn't that eventually lead to melanoma? Also, I've heard that > the foods we eat (especially sugar and additives) can actually be > the cause of a lot of sunburning going on. My sister on the other > hand has always been a very faithful sunscreen applier and her skin > is actually very young looking and she doesn't have one sun spot and > she eats the standard American diet! > > I guess these are my observations of personal " sunbathing " for the > past 3 years. I don't go out in the sun very often especially in > the heat of the summer. If I do I get a very bad sunburn. If I > have to take my kids to the pool and there isn't shade available and > I can't use sunscreen is the only other option to sit under a layer > of clothes and sweat (because it gets really hot here and you can > actually suffer from a heat stroke if you're not careful)? I just > want to know of the other options because I haven't heard of a > reasonable one yet. > > Rachel > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2005 Report Share Posted March 25, 2005 It is clear that I " undershot " by a wide margin on this topic, that much more explanation is required. I am preparing a message but it may take a bit of time. Until then, I am going to refrain from responding one-by-one to posts on the topic. However, I am saving them all and will do my best to incorporate as much as possible. Best, Elchanan keemosabe1 [cyberiaofss] Friday, March 25, 2005 5:24 AM rawfood [Raw Food] sun exposure I read back through some posts on this, but don't have time to read the many posts to find the original from El, but I'm wondering about the following info: factory > workers, many of whom haven't been in the sun in months or even years, coat > themselves with " sun screen " and go sit outside for hours on end. Further, > they sit by water, which reflects the sunlight right onto them and therefore > intensifies its effects. They do not move, the just " face the sun. " And they > ALL suffer from sun burn, skin dehydration in various forms, and eventually > serious skin problems such as wrinkling (severe dehydration) and even melanoma. Yet these educated people from these developed countries spend far > LESS time in the sun than those poor fools living in those backward, > underdeveloped countries. > It does not matter how many studies " show " a relationship between sun > exposure and melanoma. They are studying the wrong variables, asking the > wrong questions, before they even begin the studies. They never consider the > effects of the sun screen products. They never apply the known principles of > vital adaptation. > And they abuse statistical analysis techniques. In applied mathematics Elchanan, I'm not sure I get your point here exactly. I get the " sun good; sunscreen bad " theme, but are you seem to be also saying that melanoma is not related to sun exposure. And you talk about looking at the wrong variables, but you don't say which variable everyone should be looking at. You seem to be suggesting that fair skinned folks have problems ONLY because they lay still in the sun, instead of working in it. Could it not be the difference between skin types instead of that we're lazy? As a kid, I went every day to the swimming pool when it was open, and spent hours there swimming and playing, not sitting. I have always enjoyed manual labor. IN college, I refused desk jobs and instead sought labor jobs, in spite of the raised eyebrows every time I showed up for work and was not only the lone female, but sometimes the lone " gringa " as well. I worked outside on a landscaping crew in Wyoming; I harvested pumpkins in Colorado; I stood outside selling roses; I was a lifeguard; I had a Forest service job posting Avalanche danger signs....and I never wore sunscreen. I also competed nationally in triathlons for five years, which meant 2-6 hours of training every day in the sun, at different times. Even though I thought about sunscreen then, I rarely " got around " to putting it on. I burned and peeled, and burned and peeled, but didn't really care. At about age 25, I started to notice bright red spots on my arms and thighs that would show up after I'd been in the sun. At age 28, when I was peaking as a triathlete, I'd be covered with spots after a race, and people thought I had a terrible rash from the sea or something. I thought about putting on sunscreen after getting out of the water, but didn't want to lose time, since I was after medals and trophies. The spots would subside after a few days, anyway, so I wasn't that worried. I quit racing, but continued riding about four days a week/365 days a year for 17 years. My jobs have been indoor jobs that I took outdoors almost every day. SOmewhere in my 30's, the spots stopped going away, and were there all the time. I mentioned them to my mom. She'd never done anything athletic, and I'd always seen her covered up, but I thought it was modesty. She told me she had the same thing. I just never knew it. She's had a number of melanoma's removed. My dad died of skin cancer two years ago after a long battle with it. He had played tennis daily and competively right up until age 70. My entire body (or actually only the sun exposed parts) is covered with very rough bright red spots about the size of freckles. THere are literally hundreds on my arms and legs,and they've gotten more numerous each year. Dermatologists have told me that the damage is done. It doesn't matter if I never go out in the sun again; they will continue to proliferate. I cover myself up now, and in the summer, I wear body makeup to lessen their redness because it concerns people, some who think I have a contagious disease. I no longer wear dresses or skirts or shorts or sleeveless. Although I can't honestly say I " never " sat still in the sun or on a beach, I can count on one hand the number of times I've done that, and then only because I was accomodating the desires of my hosts. I'm not being defensive here, but if you're saying that what my dad died of was not skin cancer, then I'd sure like to know what he should have done differently because, although, sadly, it's too late for me to help him, but maybe there's something I can do for myself. I don't enjoy feeling like a leper at this point in my life. For the last 4-5 years, I have made it a habit to put on sunscreen after every shower (although I do buy them at natural foods stores), so that I don't forget. I've been a vegan for 25+ years, except for a two-year stint of being macrobiotic, and have been 50% raw for three years. I'm not into sugar, but I love fruit,and up until 3 years ago, I ate a fair amount of bread (with my veggie burgers). When Doug Graham was here, he said he could not offer any help, but I was welcome to come to their retreats. I've also been to acupunturists, ND's, An Oriental medicine clinic, herbologists,and allergists. I have been on fasts, have bought hundreds of expensive supplements (usually a line owned by the Dr.s and ND's themselves), and have at other times given up wheat, caffeine, cruciferous vegetables, and potatoes and other nightshade foods for up to six months. I've tried every kind of natural and unnatural soap, salve, oil, tincture, and lotion that exists in natural markets all over the world and online, as well as prescription stuff. I'd be very happy for you to tell me what I've missed, or what I've done wrong, but I can tell you it isn't because I've been standing in a factory or sitting at a desk, and then going out to the beach to sit some more. kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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