High fruit diet TESTIMONIES OF PROBLEMS, IMPORTANT

April 24, 2005

Whoops, forgot the link. PLEASE read these, many other people have experienced

tooth

problems on the 811 diet and high fruit diets. These stories were deleted and

banned

from Doug Graham's board but someone saved them all.

http://www.rawfood.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005235

rawfood , " jlainoff " <jlainoff> wrote:

>

> Hi all,

>

> I'm new to this group, but not new to raw foodism. I have eaten a raw vegan

diet for

> about two and a half years, most of that time eating a very low fat,

fruit-based diet. My

> health has been great for the most part.

>

> But last week I had a dental check-up and found some serious problems. My

teeth have

> always been in good shape, but the dentist found 9 (!!!) cavities that need to

be filled,

and

> a few more suspicious spots that look like the beginning of other cavities.

He also

> mentioned my gums are starting to receed, which has apparently developed since

my

last

> visit (about a year and a half ago). Needless to say I'm pretty shocked, and

a bit

confused

> as to what to do.

>

> I am wondering if anyone else has experienced teeth problems after eating raw

(especially

> a diet high in fruit) and what measures you took to reverse the damage. I

love fruit but

am

> willing to cut down on it if necessary.

>

> Thanks in advance for any advice,

>

> Jake

April 27, 2005

Has anyone else taken the time to read these testimonies? Why is it that

some thrive on the raw foods diet and some don't.

Vegigran

<<<These stories were deleted and banned from Doug Graham's board but

someone saved them all.>>>

> http://www.rawfood.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005235

April 27, 2005

Very interesting.

Thanks,

April

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf

Of Vegigran

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:30 PM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Re: High fruit diet TESTIMONIES OF PROBLEMS,

IMPORTANT

Has anyone else taken the time to read these testimonies? Why is it

that

some thrive on the raw foods diet and some don't.

Vegigran

<<<These stories were deleted and banned from Doug Graham's board but

someone saved them all.>>>

> http://www.rawfood.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005235

_____

April 28, 2005

Vegigran,

I read through them and found them very interesting. My OPINION is that our

systems are not all the same. No body processes food exactly the same as

another body. No one exercises the same as anyone else. I personally believe

that 80/10/10 is not right for everyone at all times. I'm sure that many

thrive on it, but many do not. It's all about balance to me. Eating 30

bananas a day does not seem in balance to me. Eating like a chimpanzee is

fine if you are as active as a chimpanzee. But I don't believe that everyone

here is exercising 2-3 hours or more a day. That is why I believe it is

important to listen to your own body. You are your own best doctor.

Of course, these are my own opinions. I love to hear opinions different from

my own - it makes me think! That is the beauty of life - to keep learning

and educating oneself and to keep changing and evolving one's beliefs. I

have yet to meet a single person with whom I agree 100%. That is what makes

one unique -- to obtain information from many sources on all sides of an

issue and to form your own beliefs and opinions.

Balance is the key for me in all aspects of my life!

Health and happiness,

Poppy

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Vegigran

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:30 PM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Re: High fruit diet TESTIMONIES OF PROBLEMS,

IMPORTANT

* Has anyone else taken the time to read these testimonies? Why is

it that

some thrive on the raw foods diet and some don't.

Vegigran

<<<These stories were deleted and banned from Doug Graham's board but

someone saved them all.>>>

> http://www.rawfood.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005235

April 28, 2005

Vegigran wrote:

> Has anyone else taken the time to read these testimonies? Why is it that

> some thrive on the raw foods diet and some don't.

> Vegigran

>

> <<<These stories were deleted and banned from Doug Graham's board but

> someone saved them all.>>>

>

> > http://www.rawfood.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005235

=======================================

Hi Vegigran,

There could be lots of reasons why some do and some don't thrive on a

raw food diet. I suspect that those who do thrive have done a fair

amount of cleaning out of prior toxins and acidic foods wastes. It could

be because some of them have gone straight from the SAD to raw and are

experiencing a lot of " healing crisis " . Then too it could be lack of

decent organic fruits and vegetables, lack of properly cleaning

pesticides off etc. Then again, it could be just blindly believe that

the 80-10-10 is perfect as stated WITHOUT modifying it to ones own

person. We are all individuals and all unique. Yes we all share much

physically, but we each have somewhat differing needs do to our chosen

lifestyles and behavoirs. Any diet needs to be tailored to ones own

uniqueness. Course it could also be because they did not wish to succeed

either.

I am quite certain that Bob or Elchanan will have some info on this.

--

Peace be with you, Vegigran.

Don " Quai " Eitner

" Spirit sleeps in the mineral, breathes in the vegetable, dreams in the animal

and wakes in man. "

--

In compliance with the highest standards of Universal Law, this email has been

thoroughly disinfected and purified in the solar flares of the sun.

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.4 - Release 4/27/05

April 28, 2005

Poppy Davis wrote:

> Vegigran,

>

> I read through them and found them very interesting. My OPINION is

> that our

> systems are not all the same. No body processes food exactly the same as

> another body. No one exercises the same as anyone else. I personally

> believe

> that 80/10/10 is not right for everyone at all times. I'm sure that many

> thrive on it, but many do not. It's all about balance to me. Eating 30

> bananas a day does not seem in balance to me. Eating like a chimpanzee is

> fine if you are as active as a chimpanzee. But I don't believe that

> everyone

> here is exercising 2-3 hours or more a day. That is why I believe it is

> important to listen to your own body. You are your own best doctor.

>

> Of course, these are my own opinions. I love to hear opinions

> different from

> my own - it makes me think! That is the beauty of life - to keep learning

> and educating oneself and to keep changing and evolving one's beliefs. I

> have yet to meet a single person with whom I agree 100%. That is what

> makes

> one unique -- to obtain information from many sources on all sides of an

> issue and to form your own beliefs and opinions.

>

> Balance is the key for me in all aspects of my life!

>

> Health and happiness,

>

> Poppy

========================

Hi Poppy,

Well put and yes, we each need to learn to listen to our own body. When

we listen to others and believe they have the truth for us we usually

end up floundering somewhere. It is best to always find the truth for

oneself and that includes your own body and diet.

--

Peace be with you, Poppy.

Don " Quai " Eitner

" Spirit sleeps in the mineral, breathes in the vegetable, dreams in the animal

and wakes in man. "

--

In compliance with the highest standards of Universal Law, this email has been

thoroughly disinfected and purified in the solar flares of the sun.

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.4 - Release 4/27/05

April 28, 2005

Sine we are all in different places when we start these changes, it's really

hard to tell. I know in my own experience, there was always something more to be

addressed. Like Dr. Graham says, you are only as healthy as your weakest link.

And while diet gets most of the press (and therefore, most of the credit or

blame when things go right or wrong), all other aspects of living are just as

important--sunshine, water, rest, regular sleep, exercise, emotional poise

(which is definitely my weakest link--can you say STRESS?), etc. Also, giving

the way of life time to work is very important.

Part of the issue is how bad off is the body to begin with? I treated my body

very poorly for most of my adult life, and now, as I turn 50 this year, I still

have a long way to go in healing. And I've had to learn to go slowly, but

thoroughly about this lifestyle. Most of the information we have continues to be

anecdotal--there is still not much that we can point to as " proof " as to why

something does or does not work.

I'm always sorry to hear when folks are having difficulties, but I always come

back to the question: What is missing? Are all the parts of the lifestyle being

addressed? When those questions are answered, then it's time to move on to other

questions. (Of course, it may be a different story if there is a significant

serious health issue that needs to be addressed more quickly--I'm no expert!!)

Peace, Valerie

Vegigran <vegigran wrote:

Has anyone else taken the time to read these testimonies? Why is it that

some thrive on the raw foods diet and some don't.

Vegigran

April 28, 2005

Yes I did, and I was rather concerned about them.

Have any others had similare experiences?

tess

rawfood , " Vegigran " <vegigran@h...> wrote:

> Has anyone else taken the time to read these testimonies? Why is it

that

> some thrive on the raw foods diet and some don't.

> Vegigran

>

> <<<These stories were deleted and banned from Doug Graham's board

but

> someone saved them all.>>>

>

> > http://www.rawfood.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?

ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005235

April 28, 2005

My sex drive is gone/ no desire for 30 days now, I don't clean the

kitchen at night anymore, I'm having to use will power to get my regular

walks in that I use to charge out the door for. This is just the

beginning of this raw food experience. I am going to be listening to my

inner voice and watch my bodies reactions to innately know what my body

is missing and needing. I realize I still need to do a cleanse to really

know what my body really can do. But in the mean time I have

hypoglycemia which makes it very difficult to do a cleanse. I think I

will slow down and allow a cooked potato in the evening along with my

salad and see how I do.

April

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf

Of tesser2u

Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:16 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Re: High fruit diet TESTIMONIES OF PROBLEMS,

IMPORTANT

Yes I did, and I was rather concerned about them.

Have any others had similare experiences?

tess

rawfood , " Vegigran " <vegigran@h...> wrote:

> Has anyone else taken the time to read these testimonies? Why is it

that

> some thrive on the raw foods diet and some don't.

> Vegigran

>

> <<<These stories were deleted and banned from Doug Graham's board

but

> someone saved them all.>>>

>

> > http://www.rawfood.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?

ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005235

_____

April 29, 2005

rawfood , " VictorianApril " <allhaul@c...> wrote:

> My sex drive is gone/ no desire for 30 days now, I don't clean the

> kitchen at night anymore, I'm having to use will power to get my

regular

> walks in that I use to charge out the door for. This is just the

> beginning of this raw food experience. I am going to be listening

to my

> inner voice and watch my bodies reactions to innately know what my

body

> is missing and needing. I realize I still need to do a cleanse to

really

> know what my body really can do. But in the mean time I have

> hypoglycemia which makes it very difficult to do a cleanse. I think

I

> will slow down and allow a cooked potato in the evening along with

my

> salad and see how I do.

> April

Hi April - Kay here;

I got your message on hotmail - thanx! I am working up to a reply

later today, if not finished by today I will get back to you

soooooooon.

However, I feel compelled to reply your message here:

NEVER follow anything if it isnt from your heart. It sounds as if you

WANT to find a flaw in this diet so you can prove a point to yourself?

There is a statement that goes " one man's diet is another man's

poison " In a way there is truth in that, but I think it depends on

how you percieve things?... Nothing ever works if you don't believe

in it. BELIEF is all there is.

You mentioned having hypoglycaemia. How do you know?

Sometimes one is sugar " sensitive " and not actually hypoglycaemic.

Standard tests are not accurate.

Fasting cures hypoglacemia. However it needs to done for LONG enough

and UNDER supervision.

I think there are many reasons why the raw diet doesnt always work

for people - usually the first reason is because they havent made it

work for them.

Take myself for instance - I could turn ANY " diet " into a nightmare

and say it didnt work for me!

This is mostly down to attitude, then once you have made the body

sick enough the prophecy is fullfilled. You have then reason to say

this or that doesnt work because the " results " are manifest in

illness before your eyes.

Perhaps you are unable to clean the kitchen at night because you had

been use to living on the stimulating effect of cooked food? I can

stay up all night and all the next day if I go eat a heap of cooked

food and some coffee. Eventually my glands swell and the reverse is

true.

However, if one does not fast then it can take a long while for the

body to get " clean " enough/healed enough to be " up for it " including

sexually.

If you are doing a raw food diet and then decide to eat a baked

potato then it will likely take your body a couple of days to recover

the ordeal.

ANY other steamed veg' will be less of an ordeal than a potato.

The need for potato per se, is purely a conditoned reflex or

addiction.

Please understand there is a CATALOG of " knowledge " about which foods

are " bad " " better " etc.. You have to decide who you are going to take

as " gospel " if it isnt going to be yourself!

I am the most impatient person I know other than by dad and my

brother. I like to miss all the middle bit and get to the results. I

am not saying that is good or bad. What I do know is that fasting

makes a huge difference on how the body reacts to food and how you

feel in yourself.

Having said all that; I am not neccessarily a fan of a raw food diet.

There are reasons why I do this which are not directly applied to

food and belief of health. Sometimes I " wish " I could be ok with

eating " other " stuff - So good luck to those who take that choice!

What I do know is that unless you are convinced 100% it can work for

you - it won't.

I will leave the rest to our personal " conversation "

Might I say - it is really nice to 'meet' you April. Glad you are

here. x

April 29, 2005

I think there are many reasons why the raw diet doesnt always work

for people - usually the first reason is because they havent made it

work for them.

Take myself for instance - I could turn ANY " diet " into a nightmare

and say it didnt work for me!

This is mostly down to attitude, then once you have made the body

sick enough the prophecy is fullfilled. You have then reason to say

this or that doesnt work because the " results " are manifest in

illness before your eyes.

Hi Kay

You are so right! I thank you for bringing this very idea to my

attention. I have been coming to that conclusion but not as clearly as

you have put it. I want to tell my story as briefly as possible to

explain where I am at, which ultimately points to the fact that my heart

is not into this, therefore it won't work for me.

I have always felt very connected to nature which is why we moved

out into the country.

I had wanted to eat healthy and the raw food/ vegan life style sounded

very connected to nature. It made sense to me to try it and watch myself

become healthier than I ever have. Here's my back ground first, I was

basically anerexic from 15 yrs old to 30, with always starving myself to

stay thin. I ate only salads and fruit 90% of the time. I strayed off

that when pregnant. Maybe I would not have been clinically labeled as

anorexic but I was bone thin and had that anorexic mentality.

After that I could no longer get away with that and raise my kids and

started eating a lot more. I then became a vegetarian and eventually

vegen. I realized after being vegen for a year that I always felt week

and was becoming hypoglycemic. I had to allow dairy back into my diet. I

did feel way better after doing that. After we moved here I was proud of

myself because I seemed to lose interest in eggs and cheese and the

salmon I use to eat occasionally. It's been a year. I realized I had

become vegen again. I started having memory problems, hair falling out,

very brittle nails and dizziness and got my first pair of glasses. Also,

I have been very anemic twice in the last few years. I just recently got

over it.

So, after eating all raw except the protein powder I was putting in my

shakes for 30 days I am feeling very much like I did when I was 30 and

had decided to start eating more variety of foods. I think my true

underlying feelings on this, is that I have depleted my body for so long

that I just can't go this route.

I will go a different route for my own journey and thank you all for

being here with all the discussions. I admire what you are doing and

accomplishing.

April

April 29, 2005

Thanks Poppy, You've hit on some pretty important aspects, the main one

being that we are all different in our lifestyles and behaviors and balance

being the key. There's definitely a lot more to health than just eating.

My little grandmother lived to be almost 100, and she ate anything and

everything. Her diet was so high in fat, but she was a very active person,

with big garden and not all of the modern conveniences in her life. Thanks

again for your input.

Vegigran

. My OPINION is that our

> systems are not all the same. No body processes food exactly the same as

> another body. No one exercises the same as anyone else. I personally

believe

> that 80/10/10 is not right for everyone at all times. I'm sure that many

> thrive on it, but many do not. It's all about balance to me. Eating 30

> bananas a day does not seem in balance to me. Eating like a chimpanzee is

> fine if you are as active as a chimpanzee. But I don't believe that

everyone

> here is exercising 2-3 hours or more a day. That is why I believe it is

> important to listen to your own body. You are your own best doctor.

>

> Of course, these are my own opinions. I love to hear opinions different

from

> my own - it makes me think! That is the beauty of life - to keep learning

> and educating oneself and to keep changing and evolving one's beliefs. I

> have yet to meet a single person with whom I agree 100%. That is what

makes

> one unique -- to obtain information from many sources on all sides of an

> issue and to form your own beliefs and opinions.

>

> Balance is the key for me in all aspects of my life!

>

> Health and happiness,

>

> Poppy

April 29, 2005

Thank you Don, your views about these testimonies seem to be the same as

most people. It would be nice if everyone could succeed on this raw foods

diet, but like you said we are all unique and must go at our own pace.

Great feedback!

Thanks,

Vegigran

> There could be lots of reasons why some do and some don't thrive on a

> raw food diet. I suspect that those who do thrive have done a fair

> amount of cleaning out of prior toxins and acidic foods wastes. It could

> be because some of them have gone straight from the SAD to raw and are

> experiencing a lot of " healing crisis " . Then too it could be lack of

> decent organic fruits and vegetables, lack of properly cleaning

> pesticides off etc. Then again, it could be just blindly believe that

> the 80-10-10 is perfect as stated WITHOUT modifying it to ones own

> person. We are all individuals and all unique. Yes we all share much

> physically, but we each have somewhat differing needs do to our chosen

> lifestyles and behavoirs. Any diet needs to be tailored to ones own

> uniqueness. Course it could also be because they did not wish to succeed

> either.

>

> I am quite certain that Bob or Elchanan will have some info on this.

April 29, 2005

Hello all,

Having read the information at the link provided by vegigran (i think

it was you wasn't it), I've come to some disturbing realisations.

A list is given of various deleterious symptoms suffered by many raw

vegans. I have been a raw vegan for a year and two months. I have

not been on a high-fruit diet, not sweet fruit at least. As it

happened, I had most of these symptoms to some degree or another, but

was still hoping it would be 'another, deeper level of detox'.

Some of these symptoms I am suffering are symptoms of being in a

PRE-DIABETIC state. Others include low energy and symptoms of

impaired nerve function. This was quite a scary wake-up call.

Especially recently, my health has not been good. I have not had the

energy to do anything much, even when i really want to. My digestion

has been getting worse and worse, even when i'm just eating fruit.

Over the past two weeks, I have been waking up feeling nauseous, a

state which persists for half the day nearly.

Many of these symptoms are the same as those that prompted me to

change to a raw diet from my 'merely' vegan diet. It worked, too -

for about 6 months. Then I started going downhill, eventually

reaching my current state.

I should state that I did everything possible to ensure good nutrition

on the raw diet. I made sure to get enough calories, I used flax

seeds for omega-3 oils, I used algae, seaweed, goji berries, maca

powder, cacao beans. I made sure to get a good mix of fruits, seeds,

nuts and salads, etc etc etc.

Since reading the posts at the link supplied by vegigran, I have

decided to change some things. I immediately started incorporating

fish and eggs in my diet. And guess what? Suddenly I am full of

energy, and feel much happier. I've started exercising again, which I

couldn't summon the strength or motivation for before. My mind is

much clearer, too. It seems that, for me, and perhaps for many

others, a raw vegan diet is feasible as a short-term detox, not as a

full-blown way of life. I will continue on a mostly-raw diet, but

with eggs and fish. I suppose this is a variety of what many

raw-vegan veterans turn to eventually, the 'paleolithic' diet.

I find it very disturbing to discover that post such as these have

been censored on Dr (chiropractor) Doug Graham's website, posts by

people who are genuinely sick, suffering and afraid, having followed a

raw vegan diet quite faithfully. It is shameful. On another but

related note, 30-year vegetarian and raw-vegan victim Nazariah claims

to have caught two famous raw-food 'gurus' (the ones we're giving all

that money to) eating cooked food - during the weekend of a raw-food

festival! Obviously these people wish to maintain the lifestyle our

money affords them, even if they can't maintain a raw diet!

Anyhow, I hope this won't be similarly censored, because people need

to know other people's experiences. I have noticed that many who post

here (not all, I'm sure) haven't been raw for long enough to get these

problems. A lot of other posts I've seen seem to be people having

problems 'fine-tuning' their perfect raw diet. Hmmmm....

Love and Light,

Graeme

rawfood , " Vegigran " <vegigran@h...> wrote:

It would be nice if everyone could succeed on this raw foods

> diet, but like you said we are all unique and must go at our own pace.

April 29, 2005

Hi

I have as yet to find any-one who does not benefit from a RFD as long as

they will listen to their bodies in the way of what foods to eat, not

overeat,and not go down the medical route when our bodies are in the

process of healing and regeneration.

No, I do not mean this judgmentally, only by way of sharing my

experience.I agree with Dr Hamer when he says " Nature does not make

mistakes,only we make mistakes. " Also with Dr Shelton when he said that

" all action is right action "

John

John L.fielder

Osteopath & Lifestyle Consultant

Academy of Natural Living

www.iig.com.au/anl

>>

>

Poppy Davis wrote:

> Vegigran,

>

> I read through them and found them very interesting. My OPINION is

> that our

> systems are not all the same. No body processes food exactly the same as

> another body. No one exercises the same as anyone else. I personally

> believe

> that 80/10/10 is not right for everyone at all times. I'm sure that many

> thrive on it, but many do not. It's all about balance to me. Eating 30

> bananas a day does not seem in balance to me. Eating like a chimpanzee is

> fine if you are as active as a chimpanzee. But I don't believe that

> everyone

> here is exercising 2-3 hours or more a day. That is why I believe it is

> important to listen to your own body. You are your own best doctor.

>

> Of course, these are my own opinions. I love to hear opinions

> different from

> my own - it makes me think! That is the beauty of life - to keep learning

> and educating oneself and to keep changing and evolving one's beliefs. I

> have yet to meet a single person with whom I agree 100%. That is what

> makes

> one unique -- to obtain information from many sources on all sides of an

> issue and to form your own beliefs and opinions.

>

> Balance is the key for me in all aspects of my life!

>

> Health and happiness,

>

> Poppy

>

> rawfood [rawfood ] On

> Behalf Of

> Vegigran

> Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:30 PM

> rawfood

> Re: [Raw Food] Re: High fruit diet TESTIMONIES OF PROBLEMS,

> IMPORTANT

>

> * Has anyone else taken the time to read these testimonies?

> Why is

> it that

> some thrive on the raw foods diet and some don't.

> Vegigran

>

> <<<These stories were deleted and banned from Doug Graham's board but

> someone saved them all.>>>

>

> > http://www.rawfood.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005235

May 1, 2005

I think my true

> underlying feelings on this, is that I have depleted my body for so

long

> that I just can't go this route.

> I will go a different route for my own journey and thank you all for

> being here with all the discussions. I admire what you are doing and

> accomplishing.

> April

Thank you for the reply to my personal email address. i look forward

to replying after the May holiday.xx

i hear you on this above message; i feel i can REALLY understand your

feeling/view. This took courage to share with us, thank you.

I will reply in full personally

Love Kay

May 1, 2005

I just read this message and there is some misinformation in it that

I'd like to clear up. I'll reply below directly in the message with

RH: before I write.

rawfood , " Graeme " <kimonokraken> wrote:

> Hello all,

>

> Having read the information at the link provided by vegigran (i

think

> it was you wasn't it), I've come to some disturbing realisations.

>

> A list is given of various deleterious symptoms suffered by many raw

> vegans. I have been a raw vegan for a year and two months. I have

> not been on a high-fruit diet, not sweet fruit at least. As it

> happened, I had most of these symptoms to some degree or another,

but

> was still hoping it would be 'another, deeper level of detox'.

RH: I think that may have been your biggest mistake. From reading

further down the email I see you were doing raw the high fat and

superfoods way. We can never get enough calories from raw veggies

alone, so if you weren't eating a lot of sweet fruit, then the only

thing left would be fatty foods. Unless of course you were eating lots

of grains and or beans. (They aren't ideal choices for a raw diet.)

I can only tell you from my experience and

the experience of many other raw foodists, that, the high-fat,

supplements and superfood way of eating raw doesn't not work very well.

In fact, I believe a high fat diet, raw or cooked is dangerous. If you

are eating 40 to 80% of your total calories in fat, you are going to

run into problems.

It's just the wrong way to eat raw. It would be healthier to eat a 50%

raw diet but that is low in fat, than a 100% raw diet with 60% or more

of your daily calories coming from fat.

>

> Some of these symptoms I am suffering are symptoms of being in a

> PRE-DIABETIC state. Others include low energy and symptoms of

> impaired nerve function. This was quite a scary wake-up call.

RH: Yes, believe it or not, eating a high fat diet causes much worse

blood sugar problems than a diet high in sweet fruit but low in fat.

When there is fat in the blood it blocks the action of insulin. The

fat coats the sugar in the blood making it much harder to transport

that sugar to the cells. It creates a need for an increased insulin

response.

A high fat diet plays havoc all throughout the body. The primates

closest to us the chimpanzees and the bonobos eat a very low fat diet.

I believe if we were out in nature and had no tools, we'd be eating a

low fat diet as well. We just wouldn't have as much access to fats.

Shouldn't we be trying to do a close to possible what we'd be doing in

nature? Eating lots of fat and dehydrated foods isn't what we'd be

doing in nature. Hence it could be considered a raw diet, but not a

natural one.

>

> Especially recently, my health has not been good. I have not had

the

> energy to do anything much, even when i really want to. My

digestion

> has been getting worse and worse, even when i'm just eating fruit.

RH: Once your health is bad, eating some fruit during the day won't

make things better. Especially if you don't make permanent changes to

the macronutrient ratio of your diet.

> Over the past two weeks, I have been waking up feeling nauseous, a

> state which persists for half the day nearly.

>

> Many of these symptoms are the same as those that prompted me to

> change to a raw diet from my 'merely' vegan diet. It worked, too -

> for about 6 months. Then I started going downhill, eventually

> reaching my current state.

>

> I should state that I did everything possible to ensure good

nutrition

> on the raw diet. I made sure to get enough calories, I used flax

> seeds for omega-3 oils, I used algae, seaweed, goji berries, maca

> powder, cacao beans. I made sure to get a good mix of fruits,

seeds,

> nuts and salads, etc etc etc.

RH: You might consider going to fitday.com and entering the kinds of

foods you eat or ate during the day. Then come back and tell us the

percentage from fat, protein and carbohydrates. 10% of total calories

from fat would be about ideal. If you stray up to 15% you aren't doing

that bad.

>

> Since reading the posts at the link supplied by vegigran, I have

> decided to change some things. I immediately started incorporating

> fish and eggs in my diet. And guess what? Suddenly I am full of

> energy, and feel much happier.

RH: I certainly suggest people make a change if their health is just

going downhill and they've been raw for a while. In your case I just

think it's the way you've been doing raw and not because you haven't

been eating animal products.

I had many failures at going 100% raw before I was able to maintain it

for the long haul. I finally learned how to do raw in an easy and

viable way for the long term.

I've started exercising again, which I

> couldn't summon the strength or motivation for before. My mind is

> much clearer, too. It seems that, for me, and perhaps for many

> others, a raw vegan diet is feasible as a short-term detox, not as a

> full-blown way of life.

RH: This is another myth out there. That eating raw vegan is a good

detox diet and not something one can do long term. I was told that and

on some level I believed it, when at first I wasn't having success

eating raw. If I had stopped investigating I would never have gone raw

and my health would have been worse off for it.

I will continue on a mostly-raw diet, but

> with eggs and fish. I suppose this is a variety of what many

> raw-vegan veterans turn to eventually, the 'paleolithic' diet.

>

> I find it very disturbing to discover that post such as these have

> been censored on Dr (chiropractor) Doug Graham's website, posts by

> people who are genuinely sick, suffering and afraid, having

followed a

> raw vegan diet quite faithfully. It is shameful.

RH: More misinformation here. If you just read what Graeme says you

would get the wrong impression of what is going on. First of all Dr.

Graham did not censor the posts himself. Vegsource censored the posts

because there was constant mention of animal foods from this one

person. It is a vegan forum, so they have the right to delete those

messages. It is a censored forum as is this one. Though we have a bit

more leeway here, than vegsource.

Also there were several posts of people who had success with Dr.

Graham's diet, including from me. So the good messages and the bad

ones were deleted. All posts from this one person were removed. He

continuously tries to repost even though he has been banned from the

group. He was a troller and had a different agenda all along. He was

causing trouble right from the beginning, but he was allowed to

continue posting because he seemed sincere.

Keep in mind that forum is to support people in doing a low-fat raw

vegan diet. It is perfectly fine for anyone to come and mention

problems they are having. If you read the posts, people mention

problems all the time. But the key is the attitude.

If you come in denouncing Dr. Graham's approach, your post is not

going to stay up. But if you have problems and you want help from him

or the people in the group, then they always give suggestions. So what

that person was posting was not related to supporting the people on

that board.

Many people end up failing eating raw, but in most cases I'm sure they

never consulted with Dr. Graham to try and improve their situation.

They just blame the system without really understanding it.

I pretty much do what Dr. Graham recommends. The only thing I also do

is to supplement with B12. That has made an improvement in my health.

The B12 issue is a whole other discussion.

But on his forum there have been many discussions about B12 and they

haven't been censored. Many peoeple had differing viewpoints on it

than Dr. Graham. It all has to do with the intentions of the posts.

On another but

> related note, 30-year vegetarian and raw-vegan victim Nazariah

claims

> to have caught two famous raw-food 'gurus' (the ones we're giving

all

> that money to) eating cooked food - during the weekend of a raw-food

> festival! Obviously these people wish to maintain the lifestyle our

> money affords them, even if they can't maintain a raw diet!

This may be true. Who knows what he saw. Personally I eat what I call

100% raw, but I have cheated on occasion. But I have stayed completely

raw for over a year at a time. I don't have any plans to be eating

cooked food in the near future, but I won't say that I never will eat

it again. (I guess that's a former addict talking. I would never smoke

cigarettes, but then again, I was never addicted to cigarettes.)

The longer I stay 100% raw, the less cooked foods tempt me. Now I can

start applying logic to the situation. When you are addicted, logic

doesn't really go into the decision making. You just do things because

you want to, regardless of the damage to your health.

Now I can smell something cooked that I like and realize if I eat it,

it will damage my health. And so I decide not to eat it.

Yesterday I smelled corn chips that a kid was eating. It smelled

really good. But I wasn't about to go and eat them. The desire wasn't

strong enough to convince me. And I clearly know that eating those

chips would only make me happy, while they were in my mouth. Once they

went below my throat I would start having pain. Then I think of all

the toxic substances in those chips, from the cooking process and from

the additive process. Then I think that it's a dehydrated food and not

natural.

So this is how logic and thinking also helps in my decision making

process. But the basic rule is to eat only raw foods. But the extra

logic is a backup for me.

>

> Anyhow, I hope this won't be similarly censored, because people need

> to know other people's experiences.

RH: Many people on this forum are not censored. But new posters are

automatically censored. Then once we see they are following the forum

rules and etiquette, then they are allowed to post freely as well.

I have noticed that many who post

> here (not all, I'm sure) haven't been raw for long enough to get

these

> problems.

There are people who have been raw a long time and they post here.

Sometimes once you've been raw a long time, you forget about helping

the new people. In my raw food support group in the city, we always

have successful long-term raw foodists attending the meeting. This is

good becuase it really helps the new people.

A lot of other posts I've seen seem to be people having

> problems 'fine-tuning' their perfect raw diet. Hmmmm....

RH: I don't think the raw diet that we can get is perfect. For the

ideal health results we should be living in a tropical area and eating

wild fruit. Instead we do the best we can with the food sources we have.

Also food

is certainly not the only health factor. Their is pollution, radiation

and other environmental toxins. Also what we have been doing previous

to going raw will affect our health as well.

Some former smokers

still get lung cancer, even though they quit many years before. In

fact, former smokers will always have a higher risk factor for lung

cancer. So wouldn't it make sense that former cooked food eaters are

still at risk for the diseases caused by eating cooked foods.

It's of course still good to eat raw, but it doesn't guarantee you

perfect health forever. But if you can improve your life right here

and now, wouldn't you take it?

You also need to get enough sleep, drink pure water, get plenty of

exercise and sunshine, live a harmonious and as stress free a life as

possible. The raw diet is only one factor in improving health.

We do the best we can. If another diet would give me better health

results, I would certainly follow it. But I haven't had better health

results with any other diet. I have tried many.

You can't get better health resuls IMO, because cooking always

produces excess toxins and destroys

nutrients. As long as you eat cooked you won't enjoy ideal health.

I hope this clears up some ideas for our forum members.

To Your Radiant Health, Happiness and Fitness, Roger Haeske

P.S. Are you having trouble staying 100% raw? Are you afraid of eating

fruit? Are you sick of the time consuming effort of having to juice,

sprout, dehydrate and ferment your foods? Discover the simple secrets

to raw food success from the Raw Motivator and Radiant Health Coach,

Roger Haeske. http://www.HowToGoRaw.com for more info.

May 1, 2005

Thanks for sharing this Graeme. I think if this works there is no reason to

supress information that is alternative to this. I have often wondered if it

would be ideal to have some fish or chicken or eggs once a month or so. I'm

still wondering. I feel so much better since being on raw, I'm not sure I want

to change. However lately I have been noticing bruises on my legs,. which would

seem to indicate low iron. I am eating some greens every day and can't account

for this. Has anyone else had this problem? What is an excellent source of iron?

Greens I thought/ What else.? Thanks Lane

-

Graeme

rawfood

Friday, April 29, 2005 6:22 PM

[Raw Food] Re: High fruit diet TESTIMONIES OF PROBLEMS, IMPORTANT