Raw Food for Health? Advice sought (sorry, rather long)

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

 

I've been thinking about this all week and not really getting any where, so

now I come to you for advice.

 

Ever since the link was sent a week or so ago that contained all those long

time raw fooders talking about how it had affected them negatively, I've

seemed to lost my enthusiasm (and along w/that my will power) to change my

eating

habits & convert to RF. Now I want to say that I do appreciate that they

were sent, as I like to read all sides of people's experiences...not just the

good...in order to come to my own place/decisions.

 

That said, reading all those comments placed little seeds of doubt and

concern where there had been excitement and now I'm left confused and a bit

deflated...and think I really need to make time to read some of the new raw

books I'd gotten to get my goals and my thinking re-aligned and my confidence

reinstated.

 

I think the thing that discouraged me most were that the answers from this

group didn't make those doubts go away. They seemed to suggest that the

reason for the failures reported by the people for whom it didn't work/or who

had

health problems as a result, was due to their 'doing it wrong' in one way or

another (whether it be not enough calories, food combining or other). And

then all of a sudden, it began to sound very complicated, and like it was going

to maybe be very difficult to 'eat right' so as to not have it affect your

health negatively. I like to keep things simple <grin> I became afraid that

with my very busy life, it would be too difficult to 'eat the right way' for

it to be an optimal eating plan for me.

 

As I'd said in my intro, I am trying to change my diet for health reasons

(if other surprising effects join health, then that's lagniappe and will be

wonderful, too)....so it's very important to me that I not create MORE health

problems (well, of course, no one wants to _create_ more health problems)!.

I'd like the benefits of what lots of RFers talk about, but then have a hard

time discounting all those negative testimonies also. I'm someone who is

cautious about this because I try to see a clear picture of things and consider

all sides before coming to any conclusions....and to be honest, I've seen how

some RFers take a rather fundalmentalists approach and some of the claims

they've made seem incredulous and makes me wonder at the validity. You have

to

have honesty not just good intentions....Judgements need to be based on FACTS

(or for me they do).

 

On a bright note, however, Bob sent me some info off-list that was very

intriguing that I was not familiar with concerning 'the germ theory' ...and how

many people don't believe Pasteur got it right at all, even though it is widely

accepted in conventional society/medicine.

 

Another theory that many people and holistic pratitioners have embraced is

that if your body is free of toxins and is balanced (can't remember how this

was worded, but you get the idea) that even if you have contracted hepatitis C,

for example, (which I have) that it can not hurt you (it will not evolve

eventually into cirrohosis or liver cancer and cause death - well, I guess if

your body has time to repair itself).

 

Now, in conventional medicine, HCV is considered 'uncurable' - well, except

in some cases w/people who have certain targetable genotypes (I don't) who

use ribovirin & other nasty chemo-like treatment that has possible/likely

horrible & permanent side effects. but it's nasty, nasty and I truly believe

it

causes so much more harm to the body than even the disease in most cases.

 

So this idea that I could battle my HCV alternatively by detoxing and

cleaning out my body of toxins and eating organic RF (along w/exercise and

maybe

some spiritual changes like yoga & meditation, for example) is extremely

interesting and very appealing to me!

 

*But I need to feel I'm on the right track* And what about all those

differences of opinion on what is 'optimal' even in the raw food community??

Which

direction would be best for me to fight this 'dragon' (the nickname for

hepatitis C among other heppers). Frankly, I feel Dorothy in the Wizard of

Oz,

traveling on the yellow brick road with OZ as my destination. But I've

reached a place where the road has branched out in several directions....and I

don't know which one will take me to OZ!!!! <grin>

 

I've ordered a book about an alternative to Pasteur's germ theory to explore

and understand this idea further (but the only book I could find was by a

Nancy Appleton, Ph.D)....so if anyone has any other books along this line that

might help, I'd love to get your recommendations. Or if there are RF books

written specifically for health/medical benefits (as opposed to the ones for

ethical or spiritual reasons).

 

I imagine I just need to find time (I'm a SAHM & homeschool my daughter) to

read some of the RF books I'd gotten and hear some encouragement from the

long time rawfooders here to get me back on track. Is there anyone here who've

been 75% or more raw for more than a year? Anyone who chose RF for health

reasons? I'd love to hear how you are feeling and how/if it's changed your

health.

 

Thanks,

Denise

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/11/2005 11:43:59 A.M. Central Standard Time,

korangeli writes:

 

<<If you have doubts about what you are doing then you will be drawn to

all kinds of information that will confirm your doubts. If you look

for leadership from those around you then you may fall into feelings

of despair and isolation.

However, if you ask your mind how you can make this lifestyle work

for you, then you will be more likely to seek out the information and

support required to live that goal.

 

< my mind looks

everywhere for approval and security in its desperate need to make

sense of itself! However, When I am feeling solid in following my

goal/dream, there are no doubts or regrets - the depression lifts and

the days fly by in an intuitive way.

 

<This lifestyle

is so different from the mainstream that many of us feel less secure

than we would like. It is almost as if we are seeking some approval

from " somewhere " - to tell us it is ok.

 

 

Hi Kay,

 

Thanks for your very thoughtful reply! I think maybe I wasn't clear....In

my case, what I'm looking for is definitely not APPROVAL For me it's

knowledge and facts to support my intuition.

 

If you knew me you'd see why I say that. I have always been a 'seeker' ...

someone who defies 'most' conventional thinking.

 

Re Parenting - I was/am an " attachment " parent, wearing the baby, extended

breast-feeding and belief in mindful, non-coercive parenting (non

authoritarian, finding common preferences, no forced bedtimes, no controlled

food choices

for child, etc.) which is obviously very radical and out-of-the-box thinking

from conventional society:).

 

Re Education - we are radical unschoolers and have totally thrown what most

people think of 'education' out the window We don't 'do' grades, tests,

homework, seatwork, or any 'structured' learning. We follow our daughter's

interests and 'strew' interesting things in her path for self-discovery.

 

Re religion - although I was raised a Christian, I have long abandoned that

for a broader view of Unitarian Universalism and am continually e

volving/learning.

 

So being 'radical' in regards to my diet is hardly anything new in my life

 

I was talking more about the 'science' and nutritional/health ramifications

of eating raw long term. That's more of what I was looking for....rather

than 'approval' from anyone. As in all of the above examples, I like to

thoroughly explore something before coming to my own conclusions. I read all I

can

find and then sort out what supports my intuition.

 

xoxo,

Denise

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/11/2005 12:21:54 P.M. Central Standard Time,

we3deeves writes:

 

>>In my case, what I'm looking for is definitely not APPROVAL For me

it's

knowledge and facts to support my intuition.

 

 

 

---> oops, should clarify -- not seeking approval _from others_, but

perhaps seeking approval from my self, to hopefully be gained by

seeking/finding

knowledge about it...

 

xoxo,

Denise

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> I've been thinking about this all week and not really getting any

where, so now I come to you for advice.

 

> That said, reading all those comments placed little seeds of doubt

and concern where there had been excitement and now I'm left

confused and a bit deflated...

 

I like to keep things simple <grin> I became afraid that

with my very busy life, it would be too difficult to 'eat the right

way' for

it to be an optimal eating plan for me.

 

Frankly, I feel Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz,

traveling on the yellow brick road with OZ as my destination. But

I've

reached a place where the road has branched out in several

directions....and I

don't know which one will take me to OZ!!!! <grin>

 

> Thanks,

> Denise

 

 

Hi Denise, Kay here..

I believe that what you focus on most is what you get more of. The

Universe says " yes " to your desires because you are here to Create!

Anything you do with purpose and intent for more than 7 days begins

to make way for habit.

I think what happens is we set in place limiting beliefs based on the

past - education, childhood experiences etc. It is a conditioned

program of the mind. When we try to change the programing, one tends

to feel " lost " , because it is new and often somewhat different to

what others are doing around us..

Some people are more incline to " follow " ; Others are the leader type.

This may be due to conditioning or perhaps down to individual

character. After all perfection means having ALL types in the world

to make a up a whole. Each has a place and a gift with which to

experience Creation and offer something back to the world - so to

speak..

 

If you have doubts about what you are doing then you will be drawn to

all kinds of information that will confirm your doubts. If you look

for leadership from those around you then you may fall into feelings

of despair and isolation.

However, if you ask your mind how you can make this lifestyle work

for you, then you will be more likely to seek out the information and

support required to live that goal.

When i think about it, I am closer to the connection through email

than I am to anyone in the street! (I live in England)

 

I struggle with emotional depression and notice that my mind looks

everywhere for approval and security in its desperate need to make

sense of itself! However, When I am feeling solid in following my

goal/dream, there are no doubts or regrets - the depression lifts and

the days fly by in an intuitive way.

 

I wish you well in discovering your inner knowledge. This lifestyle

is so different from the mainstream that many of us feel less secure

than we would like. It is almost as if we are seeking some approval

from " somewhere " - to tell us it is ok. When you think about it,

most " average " people would like to feel guided, to know how to eat

the " best " diet. But in fact most people donot eat the " best " diet.

We are all just trying our best at any given time I suppose?

I really like that we can share our experiences and support one

another in finding a route the most harmonious way. xx

[Guest guest]

Hi, Denise, I can't remember if anyone referred you to Dr. Doug Graham's FAQ

page, but if not, here is the site address:

http://www.foodnsport.com/mambo/Frequently-Asked-Questions/

 

This is the particular way of eating I follow; I came to this after a long time

of researching and experimenting in this area. I'm sure you'll find information

coming from others in this group as well. Hope this helps!

 

Valerie

 

we3deeves wrote:

 

In a message dated 5/11/2005 11:43:59 A.M. Central Standard Time,

korangeli writes:

 

<<If you have doubts about what you are doing then you will be drawn to

all kinds of information that will confirm your doubts. If you look

for leadership from those around you then you may fall into feelings

of despair and isolation.

However, if you ask your mind how you can make this lifestyle work

for you, then you will be more likely to seek out the information and

support required to live that goal.

 

< my mind looks

everywhere for approval and security in its desperate need to make

sense of itself! However, When I am feeling solid in following my

goal/dream, there are no doubts or regrets - the depression lifts and

the days fly by in an intuitive way.

 

<This lifestyle

is so different from the mainstream that many of us feel less secure

than we would like. It is almost as if we are seeking some approval

from " somewhere " - to tell us it is ok.

 

 

Hi Kay,

 

Thanks for your very thoughtful reply! I think maybe I wasn't clear....In

my case, what I'm looking for is definitely not APPROVAL For me it's

knowledge and facts to support my intuition.

 

If you knew me you'd see why I say that. I have always been a 'seeker' ...

someone who defies 'most' conventional thinking.

 

Re Parenting - I was/am an " attachment " parent, wearing the baby, extended

breast-feeding and belief in mindful, non-coercive parenting (non

authoritarian, finding common preferences, no forced bedtimes, no controlled

food choices

for child, etc.) which is obviously very radical and out-of-the-box thinking

from conventional society:).

 

Re Education - we are radical unschoolers and have totally thrown what most

people think of 'education' out the window We don't 'do' grades, tests,

homework, seatwork, or any 'structured' learning. We follow our daughter's

interests and 'strew' interesting things in her path for self-discovery.

 

Re religion - although I was raised a Christian, I have long abandoned that

for a broader view of Unitarian Universalism and am continually e

volving/learning.

 

So being 'radical' in regards to my diet is hardly anything new in my life

 

I was talking more about the 'science' and nutritional/health ramifications

of eating raw long term. That's more of what I was looking for....rather

than 'approval' from anyone. As in all of the above examples, I like to

thoroughly explore something before coming to my own conclusions. I read all I

can

find and then sort out what supports my intuition.

 

xoxo,

Denise

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Denise,

 

I can't point you towards any science/studies/research

etc., but I can tell you that eating raw for me feels

as " intuitively right " as unschooling, attachment

parenting was for me when I first looked into those

things, years ago. And just as I had to go on faith

wrt to those things, since I didn't really know anyone

who was into them at the time -- I esp. didn't know

any adults who had unschooled as children -- I did the

same thing with raw. Just went on faith, and decided

to do it.

 

I first looked into the raw path in the late 90s, but

then I met my husband and he is a gourmet vegan cook,

so thinking about raw went on the backburner.

 

Several years later, I found myself so sick from

asthma (which I've had all my life) and other

allergies that I was on 5 different kinds of

prescription meds, including 2 very powerful steroids.

Long story short, I did a long juice fast then went

straight into raw after that. Nearly six months later

I am not only off all my meds -- except for a puffer

inhaler I use when I come into contact with a toxic

chemical, like perfume -- I am healthier than I've

ever been. I feel like I'm back in my 20s, and I'm

working out for an hour and a half a day. My insomnia

is gone, my chronic sinusitis is gone, and so is my

asthma for the most part. I'm the first one awake in

my household and the last one to sleep at night,

that's how much energy I have. This is quite a

turnaround from someone who used to be nicknamed

" zombie mama " bc I never, ever, ever, got a full

night's sleep.

 

I'm still doing research, learning more and more about

raw (and the different theories as the best way to eat

raw), but I'm glad I didn't have to " know " all the

answers before I took the plunge. Not saying you are

being super-cautious, I am just sharing my experience.

 

 

swing

 

--- we3deeves wrote:

>As in all of the above

> examples, I like to

> thoroughly explore something before coming to my own

> conclusions. I read all I can

> find and then sort out what supports my intuition.

>

> xoxo,

> Denise

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/11/2005 1:25:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,

valdaly writes:

 

<<Hi, Denise, I can't remember if anyone referred you to Dr. Doug Graham's

FAQ page, but if not, here is the site address:

http://www.foodnsport.com/mambo/Frequently-Asked-Questions/

 

 

 

 

-->Thanks so much, Valerie...I'll check out Dr. D's site in depth. I do

remember the 8-1-1 thread a while back, too. I notice on the FAQ, he says a

way

to do this easily is to have 2 large fruit meals (breakfast/lunch), and then

have a large salad for dinner.

 

This sounds very doable to me, as I LOVE fruit and luckily am able to get

beautiful and varied fruits down here in Louisiana...but I wonder how much is

considered a 'large' serving? I am full after one or two pieces of fruit!

 

How would you get all the calories (avocados/nuts) you need if you're to

keep the fat low, too? I'll read the site to see if he discusses this, but if

you have time, I would love to read a sample of what you eat in a day

(quantity-wise especially).

 

Thanks,

Denise

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

snipped out of _swingbolder's_ (swingbolder's)

post

 

<<can't point you towards any science/studies/research

etc., but I can tell you that eating raw for me feels

as " intuitively right " as unschooling, attachment

parenting was for me when I first looked into those

things, years ago.

 

<<Just went on faith, and decided

to do it.

 

<<Long story short, I did a long juice fast then went

straight into raw after that. Nearly six months later

I am not only off all my meds -- except for a puffer

inhaler I use when I come into contact with a toxic

chemical, like perfume -- I am healthier than I've

ever been. I feel like I'm back in my 20s, and I'm

working out for an hour and a half a day. My insomnia

is gone, my chronic sinusitis is gone, and so is my

asthma for the most part. I'm the first one awake in

my household and the last one to sleep at night,

that's how much energy I have. This is quite a

turnaround from someone who used to be nicknamed

" zombie mama " bc I never, ever, ever, got a full

night's sleep.

 

<<I'm still doing research, learning more and more about

raw (and the different theories as the best way to eat

raw), but I'm glad I didn't have to " know " all the

answers before I took the plunge. Not saying you are

being super-cautious, I am just sharing my experience.

 

 

 

--->Your post resonated so much with me! I certainly wasn't expecting to

hear from someone who knows what unschooling is ....COOL! <grin>

 

** Y E S ** Of course (!) I don't need to have _all the answers_ NOW, do I?

I've created that in my own head, but I can see it's not true. I already

DO KNOW that this (RF) feels right ... and that's more than enough to b e g i

n I CAN_eat_ and read at the same time!

 

Thanks again, for helping me see this all more clearly!

 

xoxo,

Denise

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

---snip---

 

I CAN_eat_ and read at the same time!

>

Excellent multi-tasking! lol!

 

all the best,

Bob

[Guest guest]

> Hi Kay,

>

> Thanks for your very thoughtful reply! I think maybe I wasn't

clear....In

> my case, what I'm looking for is definitely not APPROVAL For

me it's

> knowledge and facts to support my intuition.

I like to

> thoroughly explore something before coming to my own conclusions.

I read all I can

> find and then sort out what supports my intuition.

>

> xoxo,

> Denise

 

> Hi Kay,

>

> Thanks for your very thoughtful reply! I think maybe I wasn't

clear....In

> my case, what I'm looking for is definitely not APPROVAL For

me it's

> knowledge and facts to support my intuition.

I like to

> thoroughly explore something before coming to my own conclusions.

I read all I can

> find and then sort out what supports my intuition.

>

> xoxo,

> Denise

 

Kay here again,

I love it when someone starts the ball rolling and then we all join

in !! Just for the LOVE of it xx

I am following the conversation and thinking " you seem to be

receiving all the information you need to hear?! "

 

Personally I find it VERY helpful to hear of what other WOMEN eat on

the 80/10/10 diet because I made the mistake of not eating enough

previously. I became weak and depressed.

Laurie pointed out (there are some old posts on this) that we should

look to get our calories from fruit, not fat. Leave out the nuts; eat

alot of fruit and 1-2 avocados a week max - spread out over several

meals.

I find it overwhelming to eat the sheer quantity of fruit necessary

for the calorie input, but as a rough guide I was advised to eat 10-

15 bananas a day + some other fruits and a salad (I am currently on a

completely " fat-free " plan for health reasons)

It is a good idea to eat fruit through the day as and when you are

hungry. Keep it simple, eating each fruit alone or in combination

with one other fruit (if you like a smoothie sometimes) Make a green

salad toward the evening with some tomatoes and cucumbers or other

fruits in simple combination.

The sweeter the fruits the more you support the alkaline needs of

your body. This appears to be especially important during the

transition.

 

Certainly Dr. Doug Graham's " vegsource " and his books will be

helpful. Apparently Roz and Doug have made some videos.

I have spent time with Loren Lockman at Tanglewood Wellness Center

(www.tanglewoodwellnesscenter.com) He has some very good tapes and a

video.

Get this..

During a year living in the U.S I met Loren, who at the time was

popping over here to England for some seminars. He needed someone to

film a seminar in making a video so he hired my brother. Now my

brother only went along in order to do the job - He was converted in

that one day!

I admit that Andy didn't keep the lifestyle up for more than two

months because he was not willing to change his conventional

lifestyle (Sharing with his wife also..) However, even up to this day

he still believes this to be the most natural and " correct " way to

eat because, he says it MAKES SENSE.

 

I was someone who previously learned to eat piles of green foods,

green juices, seed pates and very little fruit. (I actually trained

as a Living Foods Educator)I NOW believe this way of eating is ok for

a shortish period of time - Like its nice to take an educational

vacation to Hippocrates in FL for example. However long term this way

of eating rarely holds out. For one, we all naturally crave sweet

fruit. Personally I became very sick on the high fat content of

a " living foods " diet. Eventually I became so depressed I had no

appetite.

Still we are all different or their wouldnt be all the choices?..

 

One other thing.. It takes ages to prepare some of these raw food

meals. If you have children and like to places it can be quite

stressful. I have been around children living on raw foods - they

more or less FEED THEMSELVES from a very early age, AND their

temperament is calm. Some of my friends would cook some quinoa/millet

and vegetables for the evening, but I have also seen children do well

on 100% raw. I am envious - wish I'd had that upbringing!!

 

Home schooling is cool - Sounds like a wonderful life Denise!

 

Love in Flow

Kay x