Appeal to their health instead of their hearts

June 16, 2003

In a message dated 6/15/03 8:11:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

ana_spryte writes:

> I wonder how many meat-eaters would continue to do so if they had to hunt,

> kill, and prepare the poor things themselves? I have a feeling most people

> would rather pick some tomatoes...

>

As someone who has cleaned and prepared a variety of wild meat over the years

- I wouldl much rather pick the tomato and I don't even like tomatoes much.

The only way people are going to switch over to veggie eating is if they can

be convinced that they will be healthier, feel better, have more stamina,

concentration etc. Many of the vegan and veggie groups are going about things

the

wrong way and actually making things much worse. People who live in cities,

which is the biggest portion of the population, cannot relate to feed lots,

abbatoirs, packaging plants etc. They live in a vacuum where meat miraculously

appears in little packages in store coolers and milk and dairy come out of

cartons and containers. A great majority of city dwellers have never been

involved with livestock, domestic or otherwise, their entire lives. A cow is

something you see in pictures not in your back yard. They just can't relate.

On

the other hand, 95% of the population is concerned about their health, their

arteries in particular, and can personally relate to and understand health

issues. This is the area that should be focused on when trying to convert a

resistant public. Health they can understand.

And if you are trying to convince country folk, well, that's a different

story. You really have to be careful what you say. Take for instance a person

who has grown up around cattle and farmers all their life, like me. You can't

make a statement like, stop killing cows it's cruel and unneccessary. Don't

send your cows to the dog meat people, keep them, turn them out to pasture.

Well

maybe to the farmers it is necessary. I mean what do you do with the

excess. Figure the average dairy farmer milks 60 cows. Every year he has 60

new

calves. Let's say 20 of those forty are bulls. What does he do with them? You

can't keep them, bulls are very dangerous and are not cute pet type animals.

You can't turn them out with the other cows and you can't turn out two mature

bulls together. In my area there are about 400 dairy farmers in the three

counties. That's 8000 bulls a year between them that cannot be kept on the

farm. What do you do with 8000 bulls. Think about it.

I personally have heard the statement made that all dairy and beef and pork

and chicken production should just stop. Immediately. Good Lord. Can you

imagine the fallout?? Can you possibley imagine what it would be like to have

all those animals running around loose? There would literally be millions of

animals on the loose. They wouldn't be able to care or feed themselves. When

winter came, what would they do? Who would feed them and shelter them.

Thousands would die cruel deaths from starvation and sickness. I don't think

the

folks who make statements like that have much sense and they certainly haven't

thought things through. Those animals would rampage. Your homes, your

gardens, your streets and even your kids would not be safe. People would end up

having to go around and slaughter the animals.

I remember a few years ago an animal activist group went into a mink farmers

and let hundreds of minks loose. They thought they were doing the proper

thing. What they hadn't researched was that farmed minks have no idea what to

do

to survive in the wild. They have been born and bred in captivity. Food and

water comes out of automatic feeders. They have no survivial instinct left.

It was bred out of them so they could be kept in captivity. Those animals,

the ones they couldn't round up again, were found all over the country side

dead. Creamed by cars, starved, caught by wild animals. Was this a better

death?

I don't condone fur farming and I don't support the industry but honestly,

letting those minks lose was simply another, and more cruel, form of

slaughtering hundreds of helpless animals. I hope those people had a few

nightmares and

sleepless nights over their actions.

Animal rights groups piss me off. Not all of them because there are some

wonderful organizations out there that I support fully both financially and

otherwise. The well organized, sensible groups that know you cannot change the

world in one foul swoop but that you have to re-educate the youth and sensibly

appeal to the health and the hearts of the adults. It's a slow up hill battle

but hopefully one that will be won eventually.

Sorry, I will now get off my high horse and return you too your regularly

scheduled recipes.

Heather in Ontario

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

" When you live in the shadow of insanity, the appearance of another mind that

thinks and acts as yours does is something close to a blessed event. " -- R.

Pirsig

" HAM AND EGGS - A day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig. "

Go Veggie.

June 16, 2003

A great majority of city dwellers have never been

> involved with livestock, domestic or otherwise, their entire

lives. A cow is

> something you see in pictures not in your back yard. They just

can't relate.

I find that in order to eat meat, you have to put it out of your

mind that it was once a nice cute cow in a picture. If you think

about that picture, you can't eat it! At least, that's why I don't

eat meat. I can't get that picture out of my head! My point is

that if more people thought about it, we'd have more vegetarians.

In my area there are about 400 dairy farmers in the three

> counties. That's 8000 bulls a year between them that cannot be

kept on the

> farm. What do you do with 8000 bulls. Think about it.

Another good point. Well said and it makes me think about how I

still eat cheese. By continuing to eat dairy products, because the

milk cows have to continually have babies to produce milk, we are

inadvertently supporting the beef industry. Thanks for saying it

like that!! Now, I have to get rid of the cheese craving!

June 16, 2003

In a message dated 6/16/03 5:24:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

dave4sale writes:

> Maybe you can just cook them something and not mention its

> meatless.

This is what i do for church pot luck meals. I always bring two or three

veggie dishes. I seldom bring anything home with me. Most people are amazed

that casseroles can be good and not have meat and that there are really great

meatless balls out there with super nice brown gravy and all. You thinking

about it being easier to change attitude than behaviour is most likely correct,

unfortunately. It is had to cahnge people who are determined not to be either

convinced or changed.

heather in ontario

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

" When you live in the shadow of insanity, the appearance of another mind that

thinks and acts as yours does is something close to a blessed event. " -- R.

Pirsig

" HAM AND EGGS - A day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig. "

Go Veggie.

June 16, 2003

I basically agree with you here, except that there is a big

difference between caring about your health, and actually behaving in

healthy ways. When I tell people about the health risks of meat, they

are very skeptical because they've been spoonfed pro-meat and dairy

propaganda since they were kids. Then some of them come out with the

soy is bad for you propaganda and I have to combat that. A lot of

these meateaters buy into the red meat is bad but chicken and fish

are healthy idea, or the anything in moderation is okay idea. If

someone has a bio degree they're automatically deemed correct. When

I tell them about all the studies and statistics they say things

like " i eat meat and i never had health problems " or " eating meat is

natural and therefore healthy. " and of course the " how else do you

get protein? " My point is, people will go to great lengths to justify

their habit, because it feels good.

There's a theory in psychology called cognitive dissonance. It

follows that when a person realizes that their behavior is

conflicting with their beliefs/ attitudes then they feel tension or

dissonance. So naturally to relieve this uneasy feeling, they either

have to change their behavior or change their attitude. Since the

behavior is rewarding it's a lot easier to change their attitude.

Therefore, my thinking is don't even focus on the health risks until

you've convinced your potential converts to actually find some

vegetarian meals they enjoy. That's what worked for me, i started

trying veggie burgers and realized i didn't need meat anymore to

enjoy eating. Then all the animal rights stuff started to really sink

in. The only problem i've run into with this method is that there

are people who insist all vegetarian food tastes yucky or is loaded

with msg. Maybe you can just cook them something and not mention its

meatless. Or challenge them to a blindfolded taste test, e.g. one is

meat the other is veggie, can you tell which is which?

June 16, 2003

The hypothetical " what would we do with the animals if meat was

banned or everyone became vegetarian overnight? " question is really

irrelevant. it's not going to happen as much as all us animal lovers

would be thrilled by the news. if that ever happened it would be a

slow gradual process that would lead to less and less breeding of

livestock. It really just serves as another excuse for people who

find themselves losing the ethcial argument to justify their eating

habits.

June 16, 2003

Just a side note to this post. I mentioned to my sister that I've been meat

free for 3 1/2 days and her reply. " I like meat, meat is yummy! " . Who thinks

meat is yummy??!! Our parents fed us meat every night growing up being in

wisconsin, meat cheese eggs and milk, you'd think thats all we have here with

how most people eat.

Kelly

dave <dave4sale wrote: