Regarding the comments on Bush

August 9, 2003

I don't know how this group turned so political...but just to " put my two

cents worth " ....I happen to like George Bush...he inherited a lot of junk from

Clinton and others before him....and considering the issues that he

inherited....and then 9-11, and of course the war.... I think he is doing a

really good

job! OK two cents done! Now back to vegetarianism.....hopefully :0)

Throw back the shoulders, let the heart sing,

let the eyes flash, let the mind be lifted up,

look upward and say to yourself: Nothing is

impossible! "

-- Norman Vincent Peale ---

August 9, 2003

i'm sorry, but how can a vegetarian forum not (on occasion) be

political? the actions of politicians constantly affect the

treatment of animals (i.e. most recently the use of animals by the

military to test mines), the quality or lack thereof of our food, and

the price and availability of vegetarian foods. I will grant you

that the sorry state of the US is not entirely his fault.. but there

is some evidence that Bush may be responsible for events leading up

to 9-11. (not to mention his own lies about wmd, etc). if you care

for me to go into it, i will.

, DarinSuzyGates@a... wrote:

> I don't know how this group turned so political...but just to " put

my two cents worth " ....I happen to like George Bush...he inherited a

lot of junk from Clinton and others before him....and considering

the issues that he inherited....and then 9-11, and of course the

war.... I think he is doing a really good job! OK two cents done!

Now back to vegetarianism.....hopefully :0)

>

August 9, 2003

>I don't know how this group turned so political...but just to " put my two

>cents worth " ....I happen to like George Bush...he inherited a lot of junk from

>Clinton and others before him....and considering the issues that he

>inherited....and then 9-11, and of course the war.... I think he is

>doing a really good

>job! OK two cents done! Now back to vegetarianism.....hopefully :0)

>

All I can say is, respectfully, try reading up on Bush a little (e.g.

Stupid White Men by Michael Moore) and then see if you still like him.

Regards,

Paul

--

August 10, 2003

>Throw back the shoulders, let the heart sing,

>let the eyes flash, let the mind be lifted up,

>look upward and say to yourself: Nothing is

>impossible! "

>-- Norman Vincent Peale ---

Could you please tell me which of his books this quote was in?

~Janice~

Be your own cheerleader! Encourage yourself every step of the way!

Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission.

-Eleanor Roosevelt-

" Do not blame others for making you mad. Anger is a choice. Choose wisely "

If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian.

~Paul McCartney ~

August 10, 2003

I must respectfully disagree on part of it dave, but we don't know for sure

that iraq doesn't WMD. Yes, a bad piece of british intelligence made its

way into Bush's SOTU speech, Saddam hussein, the bastard he was, was

anything but stupid. He didnt' survive his rule for nearly 40 years without

having some brains (aside from his cruelty & sadism & ability to be mobile

at a moment's notice). Plus, he had the last 12 years to hide his stash. I

mean if he can evade u.s. troops for this long, it stands to reason he can

hide WMD (think bunkers, underground tunnels, etc.).

Besides, what politician has not lied over the course of history, democratic

or republican?

My solution, nuke the whole capital down to bedrock, start from scratch &

change part of the constitution to allow non-native born americans to run

(i.e. AH-NOLD!). :-)

Megan (a card-carrying, arnold schwarzenegger-loving republican)

-

> (not to mention his own lies about wmd, etc).

August 10, 2003

>

>Megan (a card-carrying, arnold schwarzenegger-loving republican)

>

I'm always puzzled when I hear that someone who is veg*n is also

right wing politically. How can you have compassion for animals but

not for people ? Or maybe you're just veg*n for health reasons ? I'd

be genuinely interested to know how you resolve this dichotomy.

Paul

--

August 10, 2003

Paul Russell <prussell@s...> wrote:

> I'm always puzzled when I hear that someone who is veg*n is also

> right wing politically. How can you have compassion for animals but

> not for people ?

I'm not vegan, and my friends joke that I'm somewhat left of Lenin

(though I've always thought of myself as rather right leaning), however

I think it's important to point out that there are lots of ways to

practice compassion for others, not just the traditional " leftist " way.

Just because my compassion may take a different form than yours doesn't

make it any less valid.

--

Sherri

I'm " normal " : at right angles to the plain.

August 10, 2003

>Paul Russell <prussell@s...> wrote:

>> I'm always puzzled when I hear that someone who is veg*n is also

>> right wing politically. How can you have compassion for animals but

>> not for people ?

>

>I'm not vegan, and my friends joke that I'm somewhat left of Lenin

>(though I've always thought of myself as rather right leaning), however

>I think it's important to point out that there are lots of ways to

>practice compassion for others, not just the traditional " leftist " way.

>Just because my compassion may take a different form than yours doesn't

>make it any less valid.

>

But I'm puzzled as to how right wing politics and compassion could

ever be compatible ? Conservatism is all about self interest. How can

you put your own interests above all else and still practice

compassion ? This sounds like " having your cake and eating it " to me.

Maybe it would help me to understand if you could give me an example

of someone well known is both right wing politically and who behaves

in a compassionate way ?

Regards,

Paul

--

August 10, 2003

I'm not ashamed to admit, that while I do fight for animal rights in a

limited sense (i.e. working with rescue pets & rescue organizations to adopt

shelter pets), I am a vegan purely for health reasons. That's why I use the

term " dietary vegan " or " vegetarian who abstains from all dairy & eggs in

the diet " to describe my lifestyle. I wear leather shoes, I wear the

leather jacket my parents scraped together a lot of money several years ago

to get for me for a Christmas present, and I feed my pets a meat diet. There

are many different ways to show compassion. I just happen to pick and

choose my battles and spend my energies where I think they are most

effective, which in this case happens to be in the area of shelter animal

rescue. Not to say I don't have compassion for people, but I just happen to

think, while I don't agree with a lot of what bush says or does, I think

Iraq is hell of a lot better off today than under the thumb of saddam

hussein.

It's just a complicated situation in today's world. There are a lot of

things going on and a lot of differing viewpoints, and never the twain shall

meet in a lot of cases. I make no apologies for my views. My beliefs are

earth-based. I'm a poet. I'm a vegan. I'm a republican. I love animals.

I love people. And yes, I can come across as a heartless bastard in some

cases. I'm proud to be a walking contradiction! :-) I would be boring

otherwise.

I hope it redeems myself that i am a bit more liberal than the average

republican though. that's why i like arnold schwarzenegger. *heh*

Megan

-

" Paul Russell " <prussell

Sunday, August 10, 2003 10:50 AM

Re: Re: Regarding the comments on Bush

> >

> >Megan (a card-carrying, arnold schwarzenegger-loving republican)

> >

>

> I'm always puzzled when I hear that someone who is veg*n is also

> right wing politically. How can you have compassion for animals but

> not for people ? Or maybe you're just veg*n for health reasons ? I'd

> be genuinely interested to know how you resolve this dichotomy.

>

> Paul

August 10, 2003

oh and add to that, the head of the coven I used to belong to was also a

libertarian & also agreed saddam hussein had to go. :-)

Megan

August 10, 2003

>oh and add to that, the head of the coven I used to belong to was also a

>libertarian & also agreed saddam hussein had to go. :-)

>

Heh - that's another big contradiction - libertarians are

fundamentally opposed to intervention in foreign countries.

I guess most people just tend to " cherry pick " from a bunch of

different branches of politics/philosophy/religion/whatever and call

themselves whatever seems to most closely match their own aggregate

beliefs.

Regards,

Paul

--

August 10, 2003

>I'm not ashamed to admit, that while I do fight for animal rights in a

>limited sense (i.e. working with rescue pets & rescue organizations to adopt

>shelter pets), I am a vegan purely for health reasons. That's why I use the

>term " dietary vegan " or " vegetarian who abstains from all dairy & eggs in

>the diet " to describe my lifestyle.

Thanks for explaining Megan - that makes more sense to me.

So, does this also mean that you take the Republican position of

opposing any measures which might help to protect the environment ?

Do you agree with the Republicans that the US should not have signed

the Kyoto agreement ?

I guess it doesn't help that all politics in the US is essentially

right wing - the Democrats are pretty much center right from a global

perspective, while the Republicans are far right. Sadly other

countries, such as the UK, seem to be heading the same way.

Regards,

Paul

--

August 10, 2003

-

> So, does this also mean that you take the Republican position of

> opposing any measures which might help to protect the environment ?

as i mentioned there are many degrees of compassion, so there are many

degrees of any given political branch. I'm not a flaming pat buchanan

conservative (thank the goddess!). I'm more moderate/liberal than the

average republican, & yes I do believe certain environmental controls are

needed to keep our environment from going to pot. But I tend to pick issues

more close to home, i.e. here the quality of our drinking water here in las

vegas is a big issue (lake mead & the colorado river). I use recycled

products whenever I can, I love shopping at my own natural foods store. I

would recycle if they offered it in the community i currently live in. I

prefer to spend my energies where i know i will eventually see concrete,

tangible results that will benefit me, my family and my immediate community.

> Do you agree with the Republicans that the US should not have signed

> the Kyoto agreement ?

I have to plead ignorance on this question and as I'm not familiar with the

exact details of the Kyoto agreement. :-)

Hope that clarifies things a bit more. :-)

Megan

August 10, 2003

>

>as i mentioned there are many degrees of compassion, so there are many

>degrees of any given political branch. I'm not a flaming pat buchanan

>conservative (thank the goddess!). I'm more moderate/liberal than the

>average republican, & yes I do believe certain environmental controls are

>needed to keep our environment from going to pot. But I tend to pick issues

>more close to home, i.e. here the quality of our drinking water here in las

>vegas is a big issue (lake mead & the colorado river). I use recycled

>products whenever I can, I love shopping at my own natural foods store. I

>would recycle if they offered it in the community i currently live in. I

>prefer to spend my energies where i know i will eventually see concrete,

>tangible results that will benefit me, my family and my immediate community.

Just to add a little perspective to the above, half the world's

population does not have access to safe, clean drinking water, and

millions of people die every year because of the lack of this very

basic necessity. It makes all the debates about water quality here in

the US seem a little " precious " , doesn't it ?

> > Do you agree with the Republicans that the US should not have signed

>> the Kyoto agreement ?

>

>I have to plead ignorance on this question and as I'm not familiar with the

>exact details of the Kyoto agreement. :-)

>

In a nutshell - all the major countries in the world signed an

agreement in Kyoto a few years ago to work together to reduce global

warming etc. The US was the only country which refused to sign

(because of pressure from the oil companies and car manufacturers,

mostly). (I think this may well have been under Clinton, but the

principle is the same, it's still right wing politics.) The fact that

you didn't know about this just underlines how the US media is

self-censoring. Ask anyone form pretty much any other country and

they will tell you about the shame of the US not signing the Kyoto

treaty.

Thanks for the interesting discussion - please don't take the above

as an attack on you or the US in general - I actually love the US,

although I'm a " foreigner " - it's one of the few countries in the

world that's actually worth criticising. ;-)

Regards,

Paul

--

August 10, 2003

We know at one point Sadam had some weapons, because the US sold them

to him. Whether or not there were WMD in Iraq doesn't make the war

justified or even a wise move... if you find out a country has

nuclear weapons, is it a good idea to attack that country? they will

almost surely retaliate. The point is that Bush lied about having

solid evidence in order to convince the American public of the need

for war. Yeah, other politicians have lied, but not all of them lied

in order to push a war. Because of W's actions, over a hundred US

soldiers (and counting) have died, and thousands of Iraqui civilians.

and the Iraqui people are no better off than before. I'm with you

about starting from scratch...

btw, has anyone ever told you that you watch too action movies?

--- >

> My solution, nuke the whole capital down to bedrock, start from

scratch &

> change part of the constitution to allow non-native born americans

to run

> (i.e. AH-NOLD!). :-)

>

> Megan (a card-carrying, arnold schwarzenegger-loving republican)

>

August 10, 2003

Actually I think it was Bush- in a letter I received from one of my

Senators he told me that he was " very displeased " with the

president's decision to not sign the kyoto treaty. since i wrote him

during the Bush administration, i assume he ment Bush.. not that it

really matters, Clinton was rather moderate.

" In a nutshell - all the major countries in the world signed an