Guest guest Posted January 25, 2002 Report Share Posted January 25, 2002 As someone who is trying to become a vegetarian, you know what to believe. Check this out and tell me what you think. My email is barbramcfa http://chetday.com/vegmyths.htm Barbra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2002 Report Share Posted January 25, 2002 I didn't read the whole lengthy thing, but I can tell you my experience. I'm am almost 50, been vegetarian since my early 20's, through pregancies, extended nursing and all. My 22 yr old daughter is vegetarian, my 16 yr old daughter is not (this is a free choice family) All of us are very healthy, almost never missing school or work because of illness for years at a time, and we are all very happy and active. We rarely take suppliments, maybe just an occasional multi vitamin when it seems like everyone around us is sick. Illness and health issues are complicated and cannot be blamed on only one factor unless your diet is really deficient somehow. Eat a variety of foods, listen to your body if it is craving something, and use your common sense and you'll be fine. This is my opinion only, not to be mistaken for any sort of expert or medical opinion. It is also my opinion that you can't believe a lot of what you read, so listen quietly and form your own opinions. Kris --- athomemom56 <barbramcfa wrote: > As someone who is trying to become a vegetarian, you know > what to > believe. Check this out and tell me what you think. My > email is > barbramcfa > > http://chetday.com/vegmyths.htm > > Barbra > > > > Great stuff seeking new owners in Auctions! http://auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2002 Report Share Posted January 25, 2002 > > As someone who is trying to become a vegetarian, > you know > > what to > > believe. Check this out and tell me what you > think. My > > email is > > barbramcfa > > > > http://chetday.com/vegmyths.htm Here's the reason I think he's a quack: 1. He's a doctor of Naturopathy, not a nuitritionist. Natural Medicine is a very broad science. 2. RNCP, which I'm guessing is a register nurse clinical practicioner, which means he's gotten the 3-hour course on nuitrition. Yeah, yeah, he's researched, but so have many others, he's as believable as the next guy with a clipboard in his hand. 3. he starts his argument by talking about a poor /nameless/ couple who have suffered bad nuitrition from a vegetarian diet, and then from there starts bashing the environmental aspects of vegetarianism. And my god, how I hate those people " whine whine, some lands needs to have animals on it. " There are lands that do not support argiculture, but there are tons of lands that would, but are torn down for other reasons. 4. " how plant foods don't sustain us " is easily met with the wonderous method of fortication. Yes, B12 doesn't come from plant sources, he neglects to mention there are artificial ways of getting it. But, I think he has a problem with artificial foods. 5. He quotes a nuitritionist a total of once - and only to prove that nutrients vary from person to person - he doesn't directly quote to support a meat-eating diet, only to prove that it's possible some people do better on certain diets. 6. He contradicts himself " the human body needs saturated and unsaturated fats " " vegetable fats are bad " " animals do contain fats " " fats are linked to cancer here " " but not here. " 7. I have yet to see ANYWHERE else this myth that soy is really hideously toxic. 8. He claims milk and eggs, since they do not involve killing animals, are okay. This is a clear misunderstanding of the reason people become vegan - and a misunderstanding of the actualities of where milk comes from. Really, I don't believe this guy anymore than other anti-vegetarian people. I say go to a nuitritionist, find out what is healthy for YOUR body, ask about a vegan diet and specific things you might need to get from it. Another thing, just because I'm in an annoyed mood: Yes, I think it is really sick and disgusting to kill an animal because " it's tasty and it's easier to get vitamins that way. " I think that with this lovely modern society, we can manage a healthy diet for all that doesn't involve slaughter. Celia Great stuff seeking new owners in Auctions! http://auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2002 Report Share Posted January 26, 2002 What to believe? Well, not this guy! Honestly, I didn't read the whole thing as it's a bit long. But, I have never heard of miscarriages due to being a vegetarian or vegan. He also mentioned a diet almost absent of fat. Of course that is not healthy but most vegetarians do eat enough fat which is present not only in animal products but plant products as well. I found it amusing that below the article you can sign up to receive various newsletters one being vegetarian recipes! jeni - athomemom56 Friday, January 25, 2002 9:50 PM What to Believe????? As someone who is trying to become a vegetarian, you know what to believe. Check this out and tell me what you think. My email is barbramcfahttp://chetday.com/vegmyths.htmBarbracontact owner: -owner Mail list: Delivered-mailing list List-Un: - no flaming arguing or denigration of others allowedcontact owner with complaints regarding posting/list or anything else. Thank you.please share/comment/inform and mostly enjoy this list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2002 Report Share Posted January 26, 2002 I should have added that I am 34, have been a vegetarian since the age of 18, have had two children with no problem conceived or carrying to term. I nursed my oldest until 18 months and am currently nursing my 14 month old. I am ovo-lacto vegetarian. I was a vegan for 2 years when I was about 22-24 years old. jeni - Kris Friday, January 25, 2002 10:23 PM Re: What to Believe????? I didn't read the whole lengthy thing, but I can tell youmy experience. I'm am almost 50, been vegetarian since myearly 20's, through pregancies, extended nursing and all.My 22 yr old daughter is vegetarian, my 16 yr old daughteris not (this is a free choice family) All of us are veryhealthy, almost never missing school or work because ofillness for years at a time, and we are all very happy andactive. We rarely take suppliments, maybe just anoccasional multi vitamin when it seems like everyone aroundus is sick. Illness and health issues are complicated and cannot beblamed on only one factor unless your diet is reallydeficient somehow. Eat a variety of foods, listen to yourbody if it is craving something, and use your common senseand you'll be fine. This is my opinion only, not to be mistaken for any sort ofexpert or medical opinion. It is also my opinion that youcan't believe a lot of what you read, so listen quietly andform your own opinions.Kris--- athomemom56 <barbramcfa wrote:> As someone who is trying to become a vegetarian, you know> what to > believe. Check this out and tell me what you think. My> email is > barbramcfa > http://chetday.com/vegmyths.htm> > Barbra> > > > Great stuff seeking new owners in Auctions! http://auctions.contact owner: -owner Mail list: Delivered-mailing list List-Un: - no flaming arguing or denigration of others allowedcontact owner with complaints regarding posting/list or anything else. Thank you.please share/comment/inform and mostly enjoy this list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2002 Report Share Posted January 26, 2002 That part just turned me off and I didn't finish the article. I had a failed pregnancy while I was still eating meat and a term pregnancy while vegetarian...guess I should run around blaming the meat on the miscarriage. Honestly, I didn't read the whole thing as it's a bit long. But, I have never heard of miscarriages due to being a vegetarian or vegan. He also mentioned a diet almost absent of fat. Of course that is not healthy but most vegetarians do eat enough fat which is present not only in animal products but plant products as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2002 Report Share Posted January 26, 2002 Hey.. I went to a nutritionist last year about being a vegetarian.. and she said it's a perfectly healthy and fine way to live as long as you make sure you're getting everything you need. So I don't think this guy really knows what he's talking about! -- Meghan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 In a message dated 01/28/2002 1:44:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time, prestonc writes: I think people and this society at large focus too much energy and money on childbearing Well, if your mother wasn't "focused on childbearing" you wouldn't be here now would you? BTW, how many children have you adopted? Gina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 For every reference this guy has knocking vegetarianism, there are 3 references that support it. Here are just some of many links: http://www.ivu.org/evu/english/news/news962/studies.html http://www.viva.org.uk/Viva!Guides/planet.html http://www.olympus.net/messina/answers.html http://www.veggiedoc.com/nutrition.htm http://www.eatwellmd.org/October2001.htm http://www.fatfree.com/FAQ/ada-paper http://www.pcrm.org/health/Info_on_Veg_Diets/vegetarian_foods.html http://www.uga.edu/food-serv/nutrition/veggie/VegBenefits.html http://www.cnn.com/FOOD/resources/food.for.thought/veggies/vegetarianism/ Crystal D. At 03:50 AM 1/26/02 +0000, you wrote: >As someone who is trying to become a vegetarian, you know what to >believe. Check this out and tell me what you think. My email is >barbramcfa > ><http://chetday.com/vegmyths.htm>http://chetday.com/vegmyths.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 Hi, I have read a lot here concerning vegetarianism and pregnancy. I do know a personal story about a girl who continued to lose babies early in pregnancy. A mutual friend who does soil analysis had become very concerned about calcium deficiencies since most soil is calcium deficient. He had connected miscarriages in many cases to calcium deficiency. He found that an excellent calcium to absorb was calcium phosphate. This friend had decided that she didn't want to go through the heartbreak of another miscarriage, but found herself pregnant, again, anyway. She was so upset, knowing that , yet another loss was coming. She agreed to take the calcium, even though she didn't think it would help. She gave birth to a 9 pound boy. We get better calcium from plant-based foods. But they need to be grown in calcium enriched soil. If the calcium supplements aren't being assimilated , we think we are doing OK , but not necessarily so. And if we think we get the necessary calcium from dairy products, this is NOT true. That is hype from the dairy industry. Hope this is some help. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 All this talk of miscarriages and multiple attempts has me wondering what's wrong with adoption. There are plenty of children in this world in need of a home. Preston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 Overseas adoption can be very very expensive. Even domestic (from the US) adoption can be expensive if it is a private adoption. You may be expected to pay for the woman's clothes, medical attention, a place to stay, etc. And she will still have the option of keeping her baby (in many states). Or you can adopt from the state but there you wait years and years for a baby because that's what everyone else wants. Who wouldn't want to be handed a three day old baby who hasn't been abused and neglected with years of issues to resolve. Because the millions of kids that are available to people to adopt that everyone talks about have issues. I think it's kind of crappy to tell people they should adopt a less than desirable child just because they are unable to have one of thier own. Why shouldn't a person who can have children adopt that child? I am NOT anti adoption. I have six adopted sibling of two different races and I love them dearly. They were all adopted at an older age. But my parents are special people. It takes very special people to do this. Rachael All this talk of miscarriages and multiple attempts has me wonderingwhat's wrong with adoption. There are plenty of children in this world inneed of a home.Prestoncontact owner: -owner Mail list: Delivered-mailing list List-Un: - no flaming arguing or denigration of others allowedcontact owner with complaints regarding posting/list or anything else. Thank you.please share/comment/inform and mostly enjoy this list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 caroltreehugger wrote: > Ya, well, unless you have about $30,000 to spend and patience to wait > for years, adoption isn't likely in THIS country. So? That's a silly reason to have a child, in my opinion. Because it's too expensive to adopt? Because it takes too long? Great logic. Screw the poor kid who could use a home. I think people and this society at large focus too much energy and money on childbearing, especially given we have 6billion people on this planet, many of them starving. Preston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Rachael Young wrote: > Overseas adoption can be very very expensive. The important word here is 'can'. I recently (and could get the web addy if you like) saw an overseas estimate for adopting a child (including airfare) to be between $16,000 and $30,000. Although I'm not saying this is cheap, it is rather inexpensive compared to the $25,000 to $50,000+ someone may shell out to get knocked up. I am unable to find any information on the cost of adopting children in the USA (which is really really sad). And as this is *WAY* off-topic, I won't bring it up again. But, if anyone happens to have a link to adopting children in the USA, I'd like to receive the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 rngina wrote: > In a message dated 01/28/2002 1:44:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > prestonc writes: > > > > I think people and this society at large focus > > > > Well, if your mother wasn't " focused on childbearing " you wouldn't be here > now would you? BTW, how many children have you adopted? > > Gina That's a tired old argument. I could have bet someone a million dollars that someone would have said just that very thing. Listen, just because I'm glad I was born and love my mother, doesn't mean EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE A CHILD. It's not a manifest destiny. If it is, this planet it screwed because there are already 6 billion of us. Thus far I have adopted no children, because my wife and I choose not to have or adopt children, period. In fact my wife is getting her tubes tied soon. But if we ever decided we needed to have children, we'd adopt them. Preston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 LOOK. THIS IS A QUICK VEGETERIAN LIST. EXCHANGE NUMBERS AND CALL EACH OTHER. GET A JOB THAT NEEDS YOU. I SIGNED UP FOR QUICK VEGGIE LISTS, NOT THIS. STOP THIS THREAD AND CONTINUE IT USING YOUR OWN EMAIL ACCOUNTS, NOT THIS FORUM. THIS IS VERY SIMILAR TO SPAM. I'D RATHER SEE NAKED PICTURES OF BRITNEY SPEARS THAN HEAR ANY MORE ABOUT THIS. --JON Preston Crawford [prestonc] Monday, January 28, 2002 2:59 PM Re: What to Believe????? On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 rngina wrote: > In a message dated 01/28/2002 1:44:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > prestonc writes: > > > > I think people and this society at large focus > > > > Well, if your mother wasn't " focused on childbearing " you wouldn't be here > now would you? BTW, how many children have you adopted? > > Gina That's a tired old argument. I could have bet someone a million dollars that someone would have said just that very thing. Listen, just because I'm glad I was born and love my mother, doesn't mean EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE A CHILD. It's not a manifest destiny. If it is, this planet it screwed because there are already 6 billion of us. Thus far I have adopted no children, because my wife and I choose not to have or adopt children, period. In fact my wife is getting her tubes tied soon. But if we ever decided we needed to have children, we'd adopt them. Preston contact owner: -owner Mail list: Delivered-mailing list List-Un: - no flaming arguing or denigration of others allowed contact owner with complaints regarding posting/list or anything else. Thank you. please share/comment/inform and mostly enjoy this list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 > So? That's a silly reason to have a child, in my opinion. Because it's too > expensive to adopt? Because it takes too long? Great logic. Screw the poor > kid who could use a home. I think people and this society at large focus > too much energy and money on childbearing, especially given we have > 6billion people on this planet, many of them starving. I'm with you on this one. I think having your own children is putting a strain on our already overpopulated planet. I'll answer the next question - no, I haven't adopted any children but have adopted 4 dogs and 3 cats. And none of them have been youngsters. The last dog I took in was 8. There are millions of kids and animals that need to be adopted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Jon Stockdill wrote: > LOOK. > > THIS IS A QUICK VEGETERIAN LIST. EXCHANGE NUMBERS AND CALL EACH OTHER. GET > A JOB THAT NEEDS YOU. I SIGNED UP FOR QUICK VEGGIE LISTS, NOT THIS. > > STOP THIS THREAD AND CONTINUE IT USING YOUR OWN EMAIL ACCOUNTS, NOT THIS > FORUM. THIS IS VERY SIMILAR TO SPAM. I'D RATHER SEE NAKED PICTURES OF > BRITNEY SPEARS THAN HEAR ANY MORE ABOUT THIS. > > --JON Although you've made a valid point, you have just perpetuated the problem by sending this message to the list rather than the individuals. Although I'm sure the all caps will be very impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 You ever tried to adopt???????? I DID!!!!!! I tried for 5 years. We successfully adopted a little girl from Taiwan, and I had her room fixed up for her, and matching clothes made for her and her new Mommy (ME!!!!), only to be stopped by a stupid technicality in Immigrations concerning the fact she had birth parents who had sold her. I worked with y Congressman and his staff to try to get it straightened out. They wept with me when they couldn't help!!! I also tried to adopt one of many orphans on the Navajo reservation, as I am over half Native American. The children in the orphanage there are not allowed to be adopted by any but their own tribe and not allowed to live off of he reservation. SO PLEASE say anything about these things unless you KNOW about them. It is extemely difficult to adopt. Abortion laws have made it increasingly difficlt to adopt. I was willing to accept a racially mixed child, or one with physical disabilities. Anyone who has tried to adopt knows what I am talking about. I just missed getting a child who was later to be diagnosed with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and by the age of 3 was a pyromaniac. I thank God I was a day late , and didn't get her. I have a good friend who's husband is a Medical Dr. They adopted 4 children. Two are ADHD, and two are fetal alcohol syndrome, and all have severe learning and behavioral problems. Their birth parents were either on drugs or alcohol. Three of these children will always be dependant on their parents and will NEVER function in society!! They have been told that two of these children they Love will spend their lives in prison!!!!!! What have your personal experiences been on this subject that makes you KNOW???? I am sorry, and I rarely write argumentative things, but I am appalled by the attitude. I agree there are millions of children who need love. My hear hurts for them!!! I wish EVERY one of them could go to loving homes. Try to adopt one to love and nurture!!!! Been there!!!!! Thanks for caring. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 I think we should get back on topic now. I am d to this list for quick vegetarian recipes. We all have different opinions about adoption but I don't think we need share them on a recipe list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 caroltreehugger wrote: > I am sorry, and I rarely write argumentative things, but I am appalled > by the attitude. > I agree there are millions of children who need love. My hear hurts for > them!!! I wish EVERY one of them could go to loving homes. Try to adopt > one to love and nurture!!!! > Been there!!!!! > Thanks for caring. Carol I'm not sure what you're appalled at. The litany of horror stories you've laid out only proves my point. Human beings are far too reckless with childbirth and there are TONS of kids already on this earth that need help and love and attention and resources. We should be taking care of them, instead of trying as hard as humanly possible to bring more into this planet. Preston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Matt and Paula wrote: > I think we should get back on topic now. I agree. And I apologize for steering the ship off course. I just felt compelled to question the " need " to have children. Plenty of times people on this list have posted gruesome information relating to the treatment of animals. Part of my reason for being vegetarian, is I believe the Earth is taxed resource-wise and I'm trying to do my part to consume less. So the back and forth regarding the necessity of having children struck a cord with me. Preston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 Preston, You don't have to apologize, you didn't start the last subject of conversation. I understand everyone has an opinion wants to get their point across. I don't even know how the subject of adoption came up, but hopefully we can get back to sharing recipes now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 I believe the subject went off-course with the response to the post I submitted concerning the need for good calcium in our diet!!! Maybe I should apologise for suggesting that we have a need for healthy bodies before we consider bringing a child into this world. So many are not conscientious about it. We see the results!!! My deepest apology!!!! I had no idea a post about calcium would elicit attack!!!! Isn't it wonderful we still have the freedom to choose?? I NEVER had any desire to influence anyone. So sorry and wishing you good health, Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2002 Report Share Posted January 28, 2002 Please. Get over it. I apologized because I was the one that steered us off course. I admitted this. Act like an adult, please. Preston On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 caroltreehugger wrote: > I believe the subject went off-course with the response to the post I > submitted concerning the need for good calcium in our diet!!! Maybe I > should apologise for suggesting that we have a need for healthy bodies > before we consider bringing a child into this world. So many are not > conscientious about it. We see the results!!! > My deepest apology!!!! I had no idea a post about calcium would elicit > attack!!!! > > Isn't it wonderful we still have the freedom to choose?? I NEVER had any > desire to influence anyone. > So sorry and wishing you good health, Carol > > > > contact owner: -owner > Mail list: > Delivered-mailing list > List-Un: - > > no flaming arguing or denigration of others allowed > contact owner with complaints regarding posting/list > or anything else. Thank you. > please share/comment/inform and mostly enjoy this list > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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