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What to Believe?????

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I didn't read the whole lengthy thing, but I can tell you

my experience. I'm am almost 50, been vegetarian since my

early 20's, through pregancies, extended nursing and all.

My 22 yr old daughter is vegetarian, my 16 yr old daughter

is not (this is a free choice family) All of us are very

healthy, almost never missing school or work because of

illness for years at a time, and we are all very happy and

active. We rarely take suppliments, maybe just an

occasional multi vitamin when it seems like everyone around

us is sick.

 

Illness and health issues are complicated and cannot be

blamed on only one factor unless your diet is really

deficient somehow. Eat a variety of foods, listen to your

body if it is craving something, and use your common sense

and you'll be fine.

 

This is my opinion only, not to be mistaken for any sort of

expert or medical opinion. It is also my opinion that you

can't believe a lot of what you read, so listen quietly and

form your own opinions.

 

Kris

 

 

--- athomemom56 <barbramcfa wrote:

> As someone who is trying to become a vegetarian, you know

> what to

> believe. Check this out and tell me what you think. My

> email is

> barbramcfa

>

> http://chetday.com/vegmyths.htm

>

> Barbra

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

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> > As someone who is trying to become a vegetarian,

> you know

> > what to

> > believe. Check this out and tell me what you

> think. My

> > email is

> > barbramcfa

> >

> > http://chetday.com/vegmyths.htm

 

Here's the reason I think he's a quack:

 

1. He's a doctor of Naturopathy, not a nuitritionist.

Natural Medicine is a very broad science.

 

2. RNCP, which I'm guessing is a register nurse

clinical practicioner, which means he's gotten the

3-hour course on nuitrition. Yeah, yeah, he's

researched, but so have many others, he's as

believable as the next guy with a clipboard in his

hand.

 

3. he starts his argument by talking about a poor

/nameless/ couple who have suffered bad nuitrition

from a vegetarian diet, and then from there starts

bashing the environmental aspects of vegetarianism.

 

And my god, how I hate those people " whine whine, some

lands needs to have animals on it. " There are lands

that do not support argiculture, but there are tons of

lands that would, but are torn down for other reasons.

 

 

4. " how plant foods don't sustain us " is easily met

with the wonderous method of fortication. Yes, B12

doesn't come from plant sources, he neglects to

mention there are artificial ways of getting it. But,

I think he has a problem with artificial foods.

 

5. He quotes a nuitritionist a total of once - and

only to prove that nutrients vary from person to

person - he doesn't directly quote to support a

meat-eating diet, only to prove that it's possible

some people do better on certain diets.

 

6. He contradicts himself " the human body needs

saturated and unsaturated fats " " vegetable fats are

bad " " animals do contain fats " " fats are linked to

cancer here " " but not here. "

 

7. I have yet to see ANYWHERE else this myth that soy

is really hideously toxic.

 

8. He claims milk and eggs, since they do not involve

killing animals, are okay. This is a clear

misunderstanding of the reason people become vegan -

and a misunderstanding of the actualities of where

milk comes from.

 

Really, I don't believe this guy anymore than other

anti-vegetarian people. I say go to a nuitritionist,

find out what is healthy for YOUR body, ask about a

vegan diet and specific things you might need to get

from it.

 

Another thing, just because I'm in an annoyed mood:

Yes, I think it is really sick and disgusting to kill

an animal because " it's tasty and it's easier to get

vitamins that way. " I think that with this lovely

modern society, we can manage a healthy diet for all

that doesn't involve slaughter.

 

 

 

Celia

 

 

 

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What to believe? Well, not this guy!

 

Honestly, I didn't read the whole thing as it's a bit long. But, I have never heard of miscarriages due to being a vegetarian or vegan. He also mentioned a diet almost absent of fat. Of course that is not healthy but most vegetarians do eat enough fat which is present not only in animal products but plant products as well.

 

I found it amusing that below the article you can sign up to receive various newsletters one being vegetarian recipes!

 

jeni

 

 

 

 

-

athomemom56

Friday, January 25, 2002 9:50 PM

What to Believe?????

As someone who is trying to become a vegetarian, you know what to believe. Check this out and tell me what you think. My email is barbramcfahttp://chetday.com/vegmyths.htmBarbracontact owner: -owner Mail list: Delivered-mailing list List-Un: - no flaming arguing or denigration of others allowedcontact owner with complaints regarding posting/list or anything else. Thank you.please share/comment/inform and mostly enjoy this list

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I should have added that I am 34, have been a vegetarian since the age of 18, have had two children with no problem conceived or carrying to term. I nursed my oldest until 18 months and am currently nursing my 14 month old. I am ovo-lacto vegetarian. I was a vegan for 2 years when I was about 22-24 years old.

 

jeni

 

 

 

 

-

Kris

Friday, January 25, 2002 10:23 PM

Re: What to Believe?????

I didn't read the whole lengthy thing, but I can tell youmy experience. I'm am almost 50, been vegetarian since myearly 20's, through pregancies, extended nursing and all.My 22 yr old daughter is vegetarian, my 16 yr old daughteris not (this is a free choice family) All of us are veryhealthy, almost never missing school or work because ofillness for years at a time, and we are all very happy andactive. We rarely take suppliments, maybe just anoccasional multi vitamin when it seems like everyone aroundus is sick. Illness and health issues are complicated and cannot beblamed on only one factor unless your diet is reallydeficient somehow. Eat a variety of foods, listen to yourbody if it is craving something, and use your common senseand you'll be fine. This is my opinion only, not to be mistaken for any sort ofexpert or medical opinion. It is also my opinion that youcan't believe a lot of what you read, so listen quietly andform your own opinions.Kris--- athomemom56 <barbramcfa wrote:> As someone who is trying to become a vegetarian, you know> what to > believe. Check this out and tell me what you think. My> email is > barbramcfa > http://chetday.com/vegmyths.htm> > Barbra> > > > Great stuff seeking new owners in Auctions! http://auctions.contact owner: -owner Mail list: Delivered-mailing list List-Un: - no flaming arguing or denigration of others allowedcontact owner with complaints regarding posting/list or anything else. Thank you.please share/comment/inform and mostly enjoy this list

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That part just turned me off and I didn't finish the article. I had a failed pregnancy while I was still eating meat and a term pregnancy while vegetarian...guess I should run around blaming the meat on the miscarriage.

 

 

 

Honestly, I didn't read the whole thing as it's a bit long. But, I have never heard of miscarriages due to being a vegetarian or vegan. He also mentioned a diet almost absent of fat. Of course that is not healthy but most vegetarians do eat enough fat which is present not only in animal products but plant products as well.

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Hey..

I went to a nutritionist last year about being a vegetarian.. and she said it's a perfectly healthy and fine way to live as long as you make sure you're getting everything you need. So I don't think this guy really knows what he's talking about!

-- Meghan

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In a message dated 01/28/2002 1:44:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time, prestonc writes:

 

 

I think people and this society at large focus

too much energy and money on childbearing

 

Well, if your mother wasn't "focused on childbearing" you wouldn't be here now would you? BTW, how many children have you adopted?

 

Gina

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Hi, I have read a lot here concerning vegetarianism and pregnancy.

I do know a personal story about a girl who continued to lose babies

early in pregnancy. A mutual friend who does soil analysis had become

very concerned about calcium deficiencies since most soil is calcium

deficient. He had connected miscarriages in many cases to calcium

deficiency. He found that an excellent calcium to absorb was calcium

phosphate. This friend had decided that she didn't want to go through

the heartbreak of another miscarriage, but found herself pregnant,

again, anyway. She was so upset, knowing that , yet another loss was

coming. She agreed to take the calcium, even though she didn't think it

would help. She gave birth to a 9 pound boy.

We get better calcium from plant-based foods. But they need to be grown

in calcium enriched soil.

If the calcium supplements aren't being assimilated , we think we are

doing OK , but not necessarily so. And if we think we get the necessary

calcium from dairy products, this is NOT true. That is hype from the

dairy industry.

Hope this is some help. Carol

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All this talk of miscarriages and multiple attempts has me wondering

what's wrong with adoption. There are plenty of children in this world in

need of a home.

 

Preston

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Overseas adoption can be very very expensive. Even domestic (from the US) adoption can be expensive if it is a private adoption. You may be expected to pay for the woman's clothes, medical attention, a place to stay, etc. And she will still have the option of keeping her baby (in many states). Or you can adopt from the state but there you wait years and years for a baby because that's what everyone else wants. Who wouldn't want to be handed a three day old baby who hasn't been abused and neglected with years of issues to resolve. Because the millions of kids that are available to people to adopt that everyone talks about have issues. I think it's kind of crappy to tell people they should adopt a less than desirable child just because they are unable to have one of thier own. Why shouldn't a person who can have children adopt that child?

 

I am NOT anti adoption. I have six adopted sibling of two different races and I love them dearly. They were all adopted at an older age. But my parents are special people. It takes very special people to do this.

 

Rachael

All this talk of miscarriages and multiple attempts has me wonderingwhat's wrong with adoption. There are plenty of children in this world inneed of a home.Prestoncontact owner: -owner Mail list: Delivered-mailing list List-Un: - no flaming arguing or denigration of others allowedcontact owner with complaints regarding posting/list or anything else. Thank you.please share/comment/inform and mostly enjoy this list

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On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 caroltreehugger wrote:

 

> Ya, well, unless you have about $30,000 to spend and patience to wait

> for years, adoption isn't likely in THIS country.

 

So? That's a silly reason to have a child, in my opinion. Because it's too

expensive to adopt? Because it takes too long? Great logic. Screw the poor

kid who could use a home. I think people and this society at large focus

too much energy and money on childbearing, especially given we have

6billion people on this planet, many of them starving.

 

Preston

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On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Rachael Young wrote:

 

> Overseas adoption can be very very expensive.

 

 

The important word here is 'can'. I recently (and could get the web addy

if you like) saw an overseas estimate for adopting a child (including

airfare) to be between $16,000 and $30,000. Although I'm not saying this

is cheap, it is rather inexpensive compared to the $25,000 to $50,000+

someone may shell out to get knocked up.

 

I am unable to find any information on the cost of adopting children in

the USA (which is really really sad).

 

And as this is *WAY* off-topic, I won't bring it up again. But, if anyone

happens to have a link to adopting children in the USA, I'd like to

receive the information.

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On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 rngina wrote:

 

> In a message dated 01/28/2002 1:44:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time,

> prestonc writes:

>

>

> > I think people and this society at large focus

> >

>

> Well, if your mother wasn't " focused on childbearing " you wouldn't be here

> now would you? BTW, how many children have you adopted?

>

> Gina

 

That's a tired old argument. I could have bet someone a million dollars

that someone would have said just that very thing. Listen, just because

I'm glad I was born and love my mother, doesn't mean EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE

A CHILD. It's not a manifest destiny. If it is, this planet it screwed

because there are already 6 billion of us.

 

Thus far I have adopted no children, because my wife and I choose not to

have or adopt children, period. In fact my wife is getting her tubes tied

soon. But if we ever decided we needed to have children, we'd adopt them.

 

Preston

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LOOK.

 

THIS IS A QUICK VEGETERIAN LIST. EXCHANGE NUMBERS AND CALL EACH OTHER. GET

A JOB THAT NEEDS YOU. I SIGNED UP FOR QUICK VEGGIE LISTS, NOT THIS.

 

STOP THIS THREAD AND CONTINUE IT USING YOUR OWN EMAIL ACCOUNTS, NOT THIS

FORUM. THIS IS VERY SIMILAR TO SPAM. I'D RATHER SEE NAKED PICTURES OF

BRITNEY SPEARS THAN HEAR ANY MORE ABOUT THIS.

 

--JON

 

 

 

Preston Crawford [prestonc]

Monday, January 28, 2002 2:59 PM

 

Re: What to Believe?????

 

 

On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 rngina wrote:

 

> In a message dated 01/28/2002 1:44:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time,

> prestonc writes:

>

>

> > I think people and this society at large focus

> >

>

> Well, if your mother wasn't " focused on childbearing " you wouldn't be here

> now would you? BTW, how many children have you adopted?

>

> Gina

 

That's a tired old argument. I could have bet someone a million dollars

that someone would have said just that very thing. Listen, just because

I'm glad I was born and love my mother, doesn't mean EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE

A CHILD. It's not a manifest destiny. If it is, this planet it screwed

because there are already 6 billion of us.

 

Thus far I have adopted no children, because my wife and I choose not to

have or adopt children, period. In fact my wife is getting her tubes tied

soon. But if we ever decided we needed to have children, we'd adopt them.

 

Preston

 

 

 

contact owner: -owner

Mail list:

Delivered-mailing list

List-Un: -

 

no flaming arguing or denigration of others allowed

contact owner with complaints regarding posting/list

or anything else. Thank you.

please share/comment/inform and mostly enjoy this list

 

 

 

 

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> So? That's a silly reason to have a child, in my opinion. Because it's too

> expensive to adopt? Because it takes too long? Great logic. Screw the poor

> kid who could use a home. I think people and this society at large focus

> too much energy and money on childbearing, especially given we have

> 6billion people on this planet, many of them starving.

 

 

I'm with you on this one. I think having your own children is putting a

strain on our already overpopulated planet. I'll answer the next question -

no, I haven't adopted any children but have adopted 4 dogs and 3 cats. And

none of them have been youngsters. The last dog I took in was 8. There are

millions of kids and animals that need to be adopted.

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On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Jon Stockdill wrote:

 

> LOOK.

>

> THIS IS A QUICK VEGETERIAN LIST. EXCHANGE NUMBERS AND CALL EACH OTHER. GET

> A JOB THAT NEEDS YOU. I SIGNED UP FOR QUICK VEGGIE LISTS, NOT THIS.

>

> STOP THIS THREAD AND CONTINUE IT USING YOUR OWN EMAIL ACCOUNTS, NOT THIS

> FORUM. THIS IS VERY SIMILAR TO SPAM. I'D RATHER SEE NAKED PICTURES OF

> BRITNEY SPEARS THAN HEAR ANY MORE ABOUT THIS.

>

> --JON

 

 

Although you've made a valid point, you have just perpetuated the problem

by sending this message to the list rather than the individuals. Although

I'm sure the all caps will be very impressive.

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You ever tried to adopt???????? I DID!!!!!! I tried for 5 years. We

successfully adopted a little girl from Taiwan, and I had her room fixed

up for her, and matching clothes made for her and her new Mommy

(ME!!!!), only to be stopped by a stupid technicality in Immigrations

concerning the fact she had birth parents who had sold her. I worked

with y Congressman and his staff to try to get it straightened out. They

wept with me when they couldn't help!!!

I also tried to adopt one of many orphans on the Navajo reservation, as

I am over half Native American. The children in the orphanage there are

not allowed to be adopted by any but their own tribe and not allowed to

live off of he reservation.

SO PLEASE say anything about these things unless you KNOW about them. It

is extemely difficult to adopt. Abortion laws have made it increasingly

difficlt to adopt.

I was willing to accept a racially mixed child, or one with physical

disabilities. Anyone who has tried to adopt knows what I am talking

about.

I just missed getting a child who was later to be diagnosed with Fetal

Alcohol Syndrome and by the age of 3 was a pyromaniac. I thank God I was

a day late , and didn't get her.

I have a good friend who's husband is a Medical Dr. They adopted 4

children. Two are ADHD, and two are fetal alcohol syndrome, and all have

severe learning and behavioral problems. Their birth parents were either

on drugs or alcohol. Three of these children will always be dependant on

their parents and will NEVER function in society!! They have been told

that two of these children they Love will spend their lives in

prison!!!!!!

What have your personal experiences been on this subject that makes you

KNOW????

I am sorry, and I rarely write argumentative things, but I am appalled

by the attitude.

I agree there are millions of children who need love. My hear hurts for

them!!! I wish EVERY one of them could go to loving homes. Try to adopt

one to love and nurture!!!!

Been there!!!!!

Thanks for caring. Carol

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I think we should get back on topic now. I am d to this list for quick vegetarian recipes. We all have different opinions about adoption but I don't think we need share them on a recipe list.

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On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 caroltreehugger wrote:

 

> I am sorry, and I rarely write argumentative things, but I am appalled

> by the attitude.

> I agree there are millions of children who need love. My hear hurts for

> them!!! I wish EVERY one of them could go to loving homes. Try to adopt

> one to love and nurture!!!!

> Been there!!!!!

> Thanks for caring. Carol

 

I'm not sure what you're appalled at. The litany of horror stories you've

laid out only proves my point. Human beings are far too reckless with

childbirth and there are TONS of kids already on this earth that need help

and love and attention and resources. We should be taking care of them,

instead of trying as hard as humanly possible to bring more into this

planet.

 

Preston

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On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Matt and Paula wrote:

 

> I think we should get back on topic now.

 

I agree. And I apologize for steering the ship off course. I just felt

compelled to question the " need " to have children. Plenty of times people

on this list have posted gruesome information relating to the treatment of

animals. Part of my reason for being vegetarian, is I believe the Earth is

taxed resource-wise and I'm trying to do my part to consume less. So the

back and forth regarding the necessity of having children struck a cord

with me.

 

Preston

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Preston,

 

You don't have to apologize, you didn't start the last subject of conversation. I understand everyone has an opinion wants to get their point across. I don't even know how the subject of adoption came up, but hopefully we can get back to sharing recipes now.

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I believe the subject went off-course with the response to the post I

submitted concerning the need for good calcium in our diet!!! Maybe I

should apologise for suggesting that we have a need for healthy bodies

before we consider bringing a child into this world. So many are not

conscientious about it. We see the results!!!

My deepest apology!!!! I had no idea a post about calcium would elicit

attack!!!!

 

Isn't it wonderful we still have the freedom to choose?? I NEVER had any

desire to influence anyone.

So sorry and wishing you good health, Carol

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Please. Get over it. I apologized because I was the one that steered us

off course. I admitted this. Act like an adult, please.

 

Preston

 

On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 caroltreehugger wrote:

 

> I believe the subject went off-course with the response to the post I

> submitted concerning the need for good calcium in our diet!!! Maybe I

> should apologise for suggesting that we have a need for healthy bodies

> before we consider bringing a child into this world. So many are not

> conscientious about it. We see the results!!!

> My deepest apology!!!! I had no idea a post about calcium would elicit

> attack!!!!

>

> Isn't it wonderful we still have the freedom to choose?? I NEVER had any

> desire to influence anyone.

> So sorry and wishing you good health, Carol

>

>

>

> contact owner: -owner

> Mail list:

> Delivered-mailing list

> List-Un: -

>

> no flaming arguing or denigration of others allowed

> contact owner with complaints regarding posting/list

> or anything else. Thank you.

> please share/comment/inform and mostly enjoy this list

>

>

>

>

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