Guest guest Posted May 15, 2003 Report Share Posted May 15, 2003 So sorry it's taken me so long to reply. Just like the subject line says, bees are gentle vegans. Unlike wasps they die if when they sting and their venom is about 1/2 as potent as that of a wasp. They know they'll die if they sting and they go to great legnths to avoid it. Bees only sting when they believe they will die like when they are stepped on by a big bare foot in a patch of clover. The best book out there on beekeeping is (believe it or not) Beekeeping for Dummies by Howland Blackiston. In the book he plugs his website beecommerce.com there are a jillion other bee equipment places that sell for less. The other recommendation I would make is to hook up with you local beekeeping association. Most counties have organizations that are very active but if your county doesn't check with your state beekeepers association (every state has one). My county beekeepers association has a super course that I took and through them I got hooked up with my bee mentor who has been a great help. My 4yo has her own veil and helps me maintain our hive. She knows that if she's gentle to the bees they'll be gentle back. So far she's only ever been stung by wasps. Good luck and thanks for the question. I appreciate the opportunity to put the good word out for the bees. Stephanie , " Madeline White " <madeline_killian@h...> wrote: > Stephanie > > Off topic, but....My partner is thinking about getting some bee hives. I am > a little apprehensive. Can you suggest any good books? Websites? I have > visions of them swarming my 3 year-old. (Saw some docu-drama in a waiting > room about killer bees) I know this isn't what your original post is about > but we were just talking about bees again today so when I saw your post, I > figured I'd may as well ask. Thanks, Madeline > " Stephanie " <sjoynsen@a...> > > > > > > Re: new to the group and to baltimore! > >Thu, 01 May 2003 00:56:24 -0000 > > > >Welcome! I'm in Carroll co. MD just 30 min West of Balto. We make > >it into Balto. lots we live in the country so we always have a drive > >to get anywhere. Anyhow, I've been veggie since 1990 my husband has > >been almost as long. Our daughters are too. My oldest is 4 and our > >baby is 16 months also. We too spent time on the West coast, 5 > >years in Seattle. It's a different world here to be sure. We are > >not vegan but pretty darned close to it. We are almost dairy free > >as my husband has a severe dairy allergy (my husband is , of course > >dairy free) what little dairy we consume is organic and we eat > >organic eggs from humanely raised chickens. > > > >I'm an organic gardener and hobbyist beekeeper. I'm totally into > >our daughters. I'm your average cloth diaperin', co-sleepin, baby > >wearin', homebirthin crunchy mama. > > > >If you're interested in meeting feel free to drop me an email. > >Peace,Stephanie > > > > > > > > , " carvegirl1975 " <jacey@c...> > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > hi! > > > > > > me and my rockin' little family just moved baltimore. we are > > > recent transplants from the bay area, ca, and > > > before that - kansas city, MO. we never seem to stay in one > > > place long but given that we just bought a house (woohoo!) in > > > lauraville (baltimore) - looks like you maryland may be stuck with > > > us!! > > > > > > i have a wonderful partner named bill and the sweetest bit of a > > > boy named utah - he's almost 16 months. bill is a musician > > > (hungry for a new band), he plays bass, guitar, and sings. he's > > > also an actor - or hopes to be one soon. he's artistic, kind, > >looks > > > great in converse, and can knit - what else could you ask for? > > > > > > utah, well, utah the best thing in the world. of all 3 of us, he's > > > the one most worth meeting. > > > > > > and me, well, i support this rad family by calling myself an > >artist > > > and making/building/carving/and painting things outta wood. > > > you can get a taste at http://www.carvegirl.com, though it's still > >a > > > work in progress. in fact, as i type, bill is slaving away > >hacking > > > code for my new carveblog! he's so sweet! > > > > > > ummm...what else? we're vegan, have been for 7 years, 10 > > > before that were vegetarian. i had a vegan pregnancy and utah > > > has been free from animal products his entire life (lucky eh?) we > > > strive for kindness. and mostly, we long to meet some like- > > > minded families - anyone in the area? > > > > > > ! > > > jacey > > > > > > > _______________ > MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 I just spent the weekend with a bunch of bees (Italian Honey Bees I'm told). My daughter, an animal science major at the U of Delaware, brought home a beehive with the intent of holding a teaching exhibit at a local nature center. After the first day the beehive was put in my mother's garage for the night (she lives closer to the center than we do). Well it got very cold here Saturday night and I got a panic call Sunday morning because none of the bees were moving at all. I spent most of Sunday morning warming the hive with a space heater, providing sugar water to help give them some energy and performing a little bee CPR. We managed to revive the hive and my daughter finished her teaching exhibit. Trust me, I now know from experience that Honey Bees are docile, non-aggressive creatures. They don't even mind being hand fed. Phil " It's easy to say, 'It's not my child, not my community, not my world, not my problem'. Then there are those who see the need and respond. I consider those people my heroes. " - Fred Rogers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2003 Report Share Posted May 22, 2003 On Thu, 15 May 2003 17:30:51 -0000, Stephanie <sjoynsen wrote: > So sorry it's taken me so long to reply. Just like the subject line > says, bees are gentle vegans. Unlike wasps they die if when they sting > and their venom is about 1/2 as potent as that of a wasp. They know > they'll die if they sting and they go to great legnths to avoid it. Bees > only sting when they believe they will die like when they are stepped on > by a big bare foot in a patch of clover. I can't find the original part of this thread, but would like to remind people if they aren't currently aware, that consuming honey is -not-vegan (and has never been, to my knowledge) as per the definition of veganism from The Vegan Society. A new leafelt has been produced to this effect by the Society. So while bees may be vegans, bee-keepers are not, unless they do not harvest honey or consume it! Best wishes, Marc -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 > Marc Palmer <marc > Re: Bees, gentle vegans > > I can't find the original part of this thread, but would like to remind > people if they aren't currently aware, that consuming honey is -not-vegan > (and has never been, to my knowledge) as per the definition of veganism > from The Vegan Society. > > A new leafelt has been produced to this effect by the Society. > > So while bees may be vegans, bee-keepers are not, unless they do not > harvest honey or consume it! > > Best wishes, > Marc Thanks, Marc, I was going to address this, but you beat me to it. I think we vegans are in the minority on this list, most members are vegetarian and allow honey in their diet. I do not, and I get a pit peevish about self-defined vegans who eat honey. By definition it is not vegan. Anyone interested in a very good, thorough (many many pages) website on this topic, let me know (I don't have it saved on this computer). Peace, Doh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 ****I think we vegans are in the minority on this list, most members are vegetarian and allow honey in their diet. I am vegan, too & have been for 14yrs., but my kids are o/l vegis - a compromise since my husband is not vegetarian. You 2 are not the only vegans on the list ! Christa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 Have you heard about the term that vegsource.com has been promoting? " Vegetan " is a veggie who is almost vegan (eats honey, may use wool products) for the inbetweeners. Lucy Doh! <dohdriver wrote:> Marc Palmer <marc > Re: Bees, gentle vegans > > I can't find the original part of this thread, but would like to remind > people if they aren't currently aware, that consuming honey is -not-vegan > (and has never been, to my knowledge) as per the definition of veganism > from The Vegan Society. > > A new leafelt has been produced to this effect by the Society. > > So while bees may be vegans, bee-keepers are not, unless they do not > harvest honey or consume it! > > Best wishes, > Marc Thanks, Marc, I was going to address this, but you beat me to it. I think we vegans are in the minority on this list, most members are vegetarian and allow honey in their diet. I do not, and I get a pit peevish about self-defined vegans who eat honey. By definition it is not vegan. Anyone interested in a very good, thorough (many many pages) website on this topic, let me know (I don't have it saved on this computer). Peace, Doh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 I'm a vegan, I avoid products that have any animal or insect ingredients in any consumable product that I use, I do not wish to support industries that exploit animals. However I do not avoid these products perfectly. I can totally easily avoid muscle product and generally avoid milk, egg or honey but I have yet to find a way to perfectly avoid minute traces of animal animal. And sometimes the best choice when I am out an about is eating nothing or accepting Honey as an ingriedent. I don't wish to do this but I am interested in very healthy convience foods and some reason the sweetner of choice for the healthiest option is honey. I will not buy honey, nor will I make foods with honey in it, I see it as an unnecessary ingredient and I feel uneasy about exploiting theres creatures even if I tell my self they don't suffer like animals at least not to the extent that animals do (but i think they do have the capacity and are frustrated and having their feelings and needs not considered by being exploited. But it is upsetting to me to say that I am not a vegan because vegan ethics totally fit my sensiblities and it is about compassion more than anything and I do not want to exploit any creature. I strongly want the end to exploitation and disregards to the feelings and needs of the creatures of this planet. I share an annoyance with the lack of clartiy understanding what a vegan is about. But the stress on whose the real vegan or the judgment and comparisons to catagorize people is very upsetting to me. To me I want all dominator values to be transformed into life serving values of leaving compassionately on this planet, this is my goal in life and I get more and more compassionate but once it became in my consiousness that the creatures of this planet exist for their own sake are not to be exploited with disregards to their feelings and needs then I am vegan even if I haven't found a way to be perfect at living in a way that doen'st have some form of explotation tied to it. I have dilimma's and I try to choose what I believe at the time is the most compassionate choice for all those involved. as I get more and more creative in life I am sure I will find ways not to have to sacrifice one value to meet the needs of another. It is not just compassion with animals I'm working with but compassion for my self, my relationships, my world, etc. and animals are one of the most important area that I care deeply towards living in a way that recognizes them but I still might be in a situation whereas accepting a bee product as an additive might still be the most compassionate desicsion anyways I'm really tire, thanks for sharing In a message dated 5/25/2003 2:46:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, writes: << Message: 4 Fri, 23 May 2003 20:54:38 -0400 Doh! <dohdriver Re: Bees, gentle vegans > Marc Palmer <marc > Re: Bees, gentle vegans > > I can't find the original part of this thread, but would like to remind > people if they aren't currently aware, that consuming honey is -not-vegan > (and has never been, to my knowledge) as per the definition of veganism > from The Vegan Society. > > A new leafelt has been produced to this effect by the Society. > > So while bees may be vegans, bee-keepers are not, unless they do not > harvest honey or consume it! > > Best wishes, > Marc Thanks, Marc, I was going to address this, but you beat me to it. I think we vegans are in the minority on this list, most members are vegetarian and allow honey in their diet. I do not, and I get a pit peevish about self-defined vegans who eat honey. By definition it is not vegan. Anyone interested in a very good, thorough (many many pages) website on this topic, let me know (I don't have it saved on this computer). Peace, Doh >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 The original thread was about the bees themselves. I used the subject line gentle vegans because the bees are vegans. I am a beekeeper and am vegetarian not vegan. However, my reason for keeping bees is first and foremost to pollinate my organic garden. The honey is relatively unimportant to me. I harvest little or no honey (depending on the year's nectar flow) since the bees need it to sustain them through the winter. I love my bees and am always happy to answer questions about them. Stephanie , Doh! <dohdriver> wrote: > > Marc Palmer <marc@a...> > > Re: Bees, gentle vegans > > > > I can't find the original part of this thread, but would like to remind > > people if they aren't currently aware, that consuming honey is - not-vegan > > (and has never been, to my knowledge) as per the definition of veganism > > from The Vegan Society. > > > > A new leafelt has been produced to this effect by the Society. > > > > So while bees may be vegans, bee-keepers are not, unless they do not > > harvest honey or consume it! > > > > Best wishes, > > Marc > > Thanks, Marc, I was going to address this, but you beat me to it. > > I think we vegans are in the minority on this list, most members are > vegetarian and allow honey in their diet. > > I do not, and I get a pit peevish about self-defined vegans who eat honey. > By definition it is not vegan. Anyone interested in a very good, thorough > (many many pages) website on this topic, let me know (I don't have it saved > on this computer). > > Peace, > Doh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2003 Report Share Posted May 27, 2003 > bkwildcray > Re: Re: Bees, gentle vegans > I share an annoyance with the lack of > clartiy understanding what a vegan is about. But the stress on whose the real > vegan or the judgment and comparisons to catagorize people is very upsetting > to me. I wasn't judging. Just stating that it's not vegan to eat honey and what annoys me are " vegans " like a friend at work who think it's perfectly okay to eat honey - not, like you, who choose honey rather than starve. Which I've had to do, too. Likewise, I'm annoyed by " vegetarians " who eat chicken and fish. Sure, we can call them pesco-pollarians or whatever - but really, they aren't vegetarians, they just don't eat cows and pigs. So that's why, when you go to a restaurant, the waitress says, " Oh, then you can have the fish... Well there was a vegetarian in here the other night and she ordered the fish. " It's not that I'm into labels, per se. The reason it annoys me is that it makes my job harder, they confuse the issue - as having to explain to people " No, I don't eat honey, and I'm sure your 'vegan' friend is sincere but honey is not vegan... " and then I have to explain why and sound like a complete nut, compared to the more " reasonable " honey-eating vegan. There are vegans who won't srink wine, or go to movies - I may be less vegan than they, and they are probably annoyed by me!! BTW, my uncle is the one who discovered the language of bees, the dance they do to communicate. Bees do feel. ~Doh ------- Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable. ~ John F. Kennedy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 28, 2003 Report Share Posted May 28, 2003 On Sat, 24 May 2003 10:07:28 -0700 (PDT), Lucy Watkins <lucywatkins wrote: > Have you heard about the term that vegsource.com has been promoting? > " Vegetan " is a veggie who is almost vegan (eats honey, may use wool > products) for the inbetweeners. Lucy Hmm, there is actually a fake leather called Vegetan if I recall correctly. Doesn't sound like a name I'd like to use to describe myself ;-) Really though, eating honey is such an obscure thing to hold on to. There are tons of cruelty-free sweeteners out there that are arguably nicer: * Agave syrup * Maple syrup * Date syrup * Apple juice concentrate * Dark brown sugar There is no argument in favour of honey that I can see. The " convenience foods " containing honey argument is a bit strange. Why not meat or dairy- based snacks also? What is the rationale? I'm not having a go at anybody who has not so far managed to be completely vegan - every little helps it really does - but you can't call yourself vegan if you knowingly consume honey. It's like the scourge of vegetarianism - those people who say they are vegetarian but continue to eat fish. Do they think that fish are vegetables?! Best wishes, Marc -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 See, now that's the term " Completely vegan " that drives me up the wall. That is a near impossibility. Driving cars, using stamps or envelopes with glue (often containing casein), many homeopathic items utilize animal products, vaccinations, etc..... That's exactly why I will always refer to myself as an " aspiring vegan " . There are even concerns about vegan organic gardening. While I agree that honey isn't vegan, I don't agree that anybody is ever " completely vegan. " I truly respect the process that is becoming vegan. Whatever stage of the process we are in is terrific and admirable and I honor that. Lucy Marc Palmer <marc wrote: I'm not having a go at anybody who has not so far managed to be completely vegan - every little helps it really does - but you can't call yourself vegan if you knowingly consume honey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 On Thu, 29 May 2003 08:52:50 -0700 (PDT), Lucy Watkins <lucywatkins wrote: > See, now that's the term " Completely vegan " that drives me up the wall. > That is a near impossibility. Driving cars, using stamps or envelopes > with glue (often containing casein), many homeopathic items utilize > animal products, vaccinations, etc..... That's exactly why I will always I was referring to dietary veganism when I used that phrase, as food was what we were discussing. You cannot escape the fact that honey is a direct product of animals. The fact that some obscure animal ingredient may be used in an adhesive inside some product you have bought - for example - is a completely different matter, and somewhat superfluous, especially if you cannot find out what the ingredients are. Food is a different matter. Perhaps one day all non-food products will list their ingredients too. Somehow I doubt it! Best wishes, Marc -- Marc Palmer Contract Java Consultant/Developer http://www.anyware.co.uk/marc/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Yeah. Back in college when I was being good and didn't eat dairy or eggs, I self defined as a mellovegetarian. Even on the veggie groups, I got a lot of " what's that? " to which I said it was vegan plus honey. I'm trying to kick dairy again, but it's really been hard. Sandra I do not, and I get a pit peevish about self-defined vegans who eat honey. By definition it is not vegan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 I can think of one, though it's not commonly relevant. If you eat raw, unprocessed locally made honey, it can help you develop a resistance to local pollen allergies. But that's not why most " vegan " people eat honey, it's simply not knowing any better. Sandra, currently a dairy shunning but addicted ovolacto vegetarian who doesn't eat many eggs, either, and an ex-mellovegetarian (vegan plus honey) There is no argument in favour of honey that I can see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 Giving up photography would be more than I can handle, personally, and I also refuse to pass on medicine if it's only available in gelatine caps. Currently I'm also taking animal based supplements for depression, since everything I've read (including on here) agreed that the veggie omega 3's are less effective for mental illness. Sansra See, now that's the term " Completely vegan " that drives me up the wall. That is a near impossibility. Driving cars, using stamps or envelopes with glue (often containing casein), many homeopathic items utilize animal products, vaccinations, etc..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 That's exactly what I'm talking about, Sandra. When I don't like the term " completely vegan " is when someone is using it about another person. It feels like finger pointing to me. I think we should each be applauded for the work we *are* doing even if we aren't completely vegan. I really appreciate Vegan Outreach's views on this stuff. I think they really do a good job over there. The same thing with your concerns about human rights. Imho, you are the only one who is facing your own sense of integrity so you are the only one who can decide which way to go. The fact that you even think about the issue puts you above the rest. I think that fact means you are already making a huge difference in your world. You go girl! Lucy Sandra Mort <sandra.mort wrote: Giving up photography would be more than I can handle, personally, and I also refuse to pass on medicine if it's only available in gelatine caps. Currently I'm also taking animal based supplements for depression, since everything I've read (including on here) agreed that the veggie omega 3's are less effective for mental illness. Sansra See, now that's the term " Completely vegan " that drives me up the wall. That is a near impossibility. Driving cars, using stamps or envelopes with glue (often containing casein), many homeopathic items utilize animal products, vaccinations, etc..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 I dont know if you are grossed out by the honey being stored in the insect itself, but it grosses me out. That is a big part of me being a vegan. The whole flesh animal and animal suffering is a big part for me vs the healthy part. Im glad that is a healthier way of life though. Sandra Mort <sandra.mort wrote:Yeah. Back in college when I was being good and didn't eat dairy or eggs, I self defined as a mellovegetarian. Even on the veggie groups, I got a lot of " what's that? " to which I said it was vegan plus honey. I'm trying to kick dairy again, but it's really been hard. Sandra I do not, and I get a pit peevish about self-defined vegans who eat honey. By definition it is not vegan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.