Digest Number 696

[Guest guest]

Congratulations on your expectant state, Rachael!

 

And thank you, Elizabeth Anderson, for saying what I was thinking. With regard

to the 8th Continent soy " milk " that I suggested as one alternative to cow's

milk, I am thrilled to see mainstream efforts to introduce healthier

alternatives. I'm interested to learn that it isn't the panacea I thought it

was, but it's still better than no effort at all!

 

For me, the goals of this type of discussion group are support, problem-solving,

and networking. Hooray to the parent who is thinking of cutting back on meat!

And to the vegan family that grows and processes their own food--wow! More power

to you. Most of us are somewhere in the middle. My family has enjoyed Disney

movies (and visits to Disney theme parks), there are probably a couple Nike

symbols somewhere in our home, and thank goodness, we have packaged vegetarian

convenience food in our freezer!

 

Here's to a sunny and green weekend!

Veggie Val

 

 

 

 

 

 

SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

 

 

[Guest guest]

> " Elizabeth Anderson " <eanderson

> RE: Matt Ball's response

>

> I agree with Matt Ball and hope that we can hear from more folks on this

> listserv that are tolerate of other viewpoints and struggling to make better

> choices everyday.

> Don't we stand a better chance of converting the world to plant foods when we

> try to meet them where they are instead of scolding them? Do we really need to

> present a picture to the world that all vegetarians/vegans are so rigid and

> extreme? That's how I've begun to feel after being on this listserv for just a

> short time.

 

Hmmmmmmm. I don't know when, on this list, we've been " so rigid and

extreme " although I recall a recent discussion about whether honey is vegan.

Some people agreed, some didn't. Some on this list are not vegan, so it's

not relevant to them. That might seem " extreme " to some, but it's nothing

more than what is or is not vegan. If someone don't want to be that

extreme, fine. If they want to consume honey, but don't like having to fit

in a label, they can simply not call themselves vegan.

 

But this is a list for veg*n parents. I sure hope we don't get ... flexible

and gentle. Will it get to the point that we are afraid to express

ourselves for fear of being labeled extreme or rigid, right here on a

vegetarian list? And since we're writing to this list, it's *not* the same

as " presenting a picture to the world. " This should be a safe place for

expressing those extreme views, just as anyone should feel it's safe for

them to respectfully disagree. To the world, I present a very safe picture.

I'm a yoga teacher. I guide gently. I work at whole foods. I sell meat

and fish and dairy, and I don't lecture a damn soul who buys it. My tattoos

are hidden, my piercing mild. My clothes are not alarming. Sometimes I

wish I could look more alternative, but I do know what the cost is: people

wouldn't often give me the respect I get now, as a non-threatening person.

But here, on a veg*n list, with parents who want health and compassion for

their children and hope to instill them within their children, why can't we

be outraged that a giant company, which doesn't give a shit about

vegetarians, or health, or animals, would even attempt to pass of their

sugary, syrupy, chemical-laden pseudo-soymilk on us? Or, why can't we be

perturbed that a vegan organization, dedicated to promoting the vegan cause,

is promoting a product that *has an animal ingredient in it* - it's not even

*vegetarian* let alone vegan! - and that is made by a company that tortures

animals? Or is that too rigid or extreme? And if so, why be vegetarian at

all?

 

Frankly, I love people who are extreme, and rigid, even if they sort of

affront me personally or make my comfort zone cringe. Here's why. They

push the boundary. They raise the issues. They make *me* look normal.

They make people think, and question. Sure, it's often uncomfortable. But

if you don't make people uncomfortable, they may do nothing. Which is what

we might get if we all work so hard to be gentle and flexible. If we

pussy-foot around and try to be PC and all, then we don't make people

change. People may seem repulsed by rigid and extreme ideas, but they're

often apathetic to anything less.

 

Or am I on the wrong list?

~Doh

---------

" You have to live every day as if it's your last, because one of these days,

you're bound to be right. " ~Breaker Morant.

[Guest guest]

***But this is a list for veg*n parents.  I sure hope we don't get ...

flexible

and gentle.  Will it get to the point that we are afraid to express

ourselves for fear of being labeled extreme or rigid, right here on a

vegetarian list? 

***

 

I am vegan, but I thought that the list was for vegetarian parents (all forms

of vegetarians, not just vegans). That point aside, I am going to have to

agree more with those who have expressed concern about rigidity. I have been

vegan for almost 15 yrs & was o/l vegetarian for 3 yrs before that. I guess

that I have had my more rigid days when I was a little younger, but I am now

married to a non-vegetarian & have found that, as the old saying goes, " you get

more flies with honey than vinegar " .

 

 

I have had to compromise a bit just so that my husband's needs and beliefs

are respected, too. Our children are more o/l vegi than vegan, although they

drink soy milk rather than cow's milk, and eat a lot of vegan food. I agree

that I would love it if animals were not abused in this world and so many

products did not contain animal ingredients, but that is not the case. I do

think

that it is better to meet people where they are and feel that any changes that

they can make toward a more vegetarian diet is better than nothing. The road

is longer for some & the end of the road is a different place for some than

others.

 

The honey discussion did come across as rather judgemental to me. I would

not tell someone that they are creating a problem for all of us other vegans by

consuming honey & still calling themselves vegan & I do think that people can

be vegan & do things differently than other vegans. We all have the right to

define ourselves where we feel we fit.

 

Doh, you are right that there are not a lot of specifics that I could pin

point & say 'here's that judgemental discussion', but it is the overall tone

that

I get from many of the postings here that make me agree with the 2 who

expressed concern about lack of flexibility. For the most part, I have not been

posting much at all here b/c I am afraid of getting jumped on. I guess that we

all have different comfort levels & different places at which we feel judged.

 

Christa