Guest guest Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 My daughter attended a birthday party at a dairy this weekend. (I had mixed feelings about attending, but we did. It was organic, however.) There were other farm animals there too - some goats, chickens, horses, pigs, etc. At one point, the tour leader asked the children why farmers keep animals. The " answer " was that they feed and care for the animals because the animals give us gifts. What I found curious was that when asked what " gifts " chickens give, the children all said eggs (for cows milk, etc). None of them mentioned meat; I guess they do not realize the connection yet. It was the tour leader who brought up the meat issue - " chickens give us meat, do you like chicken nuggets? " I was not sure how to handle this with my daughter, who is 4. On the way home, I told her that people have different ideas about these things and some day she would have to decide for herself, but I wanted her to know that some people, including me, did not consider animal products gifts. I said that a gift is something you give, but that the milk, eggs, and especially meat, are taken from the animal. You have to kill the animal to get the meat. I loved my husband's response when I told him later. He said, jokingly, that I should have hit the tour guide over the head, taken a gallon of milk and claimed it was a gift. LOL. I was sort of hoping that my daughter would speak up about being vegetarian. I only say this because she will pipe up about it, out of context, with complete strangers. She announced it the first day of preschool without any encouragement from me - I wasn't even there. So, I'm thinking that when she hears the eating chickens comment she'll make this announcement and at least catch the tour guide a bit off guard, but not a peep out of her. LOL. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 Ack! I'm so stressed out about how to handle these things. Part of me thinks that these tours will help Joy and Shirlee see that there really are animals there being made into food. The other part of me fears such an atmosphere will normalize animal exploitation in their minds. I just don't know what to do about this. I've got a foot in each *camp* when it comes to this. Ugh. My stomach churns just thinking about it. Btw, I love your dh's response!! That's priceless! Lucy Karen Detling <kdetling wrote: My daughter attended a birthday party at a dairy this weekend. (I had mixed feelings about attending, but we did. It was organic, however.) There were other farm animals there too - some goats, chickens, horses, pigs, etc. At one point, the tour leader asked the children why farmers keep animals. The " answer " was that they feed and care for the animals because the animals give us gifts. What I found curious was that when asked what " gifts " chickens give, the children all said eggs (for cows milk, etc). None of them mentioned meat; I guess they do not realize the connection yet. It was the tour leader who brought up the meat issue - " chickens give us meat, do you like chicken nuggets? " I was not sure how to handle this with my daughter, who is 4. On the way home, I told her that people have different ideas about these things and some day she would have to decide for herself, but I wanted her to know that some people, including me, did not consider animal products gifts. I said that a gift is something you give, but that the milk, eggs, and especially meat, are taken from the animal. You have to kill the animal to get the meat. I loved my husband's response when I told him later. He said, jokingly, that I should have hit the tour guide over the head, taken a gallon of milk and claimed it was a gift. LOL. I was sort of hoping that my daughter would speak up about being vegetarian. I only say this because she will pipe up about it, out of context, with complete strangers. She announced it the first day of preschool without any encouragement from me - I wasn't even there. So, I'm thinking that when she hears the eating chickens comment she'll make this announcement and at least catch the tour guide a bit off guard, but not a peep out of her. LOL. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2003 Report Share Posted September 9, 2003 I stress too that these issues will come up more and more. Part of me thinks that she needs to learn to deal with differences and is bright enough to understand that there is more than one point of view. On the other, I think maybe we should take more of a stand and just say no, we won't go to such places. I mean, even if it's a pretty nice dairy as dairies go, there are still the issues about where all the boy cows go, what happens to the cows when they no longer produce milk, etc. One complication is that this is a big issue for me, but not an issue for my DH. He's vegetarian, not vegan, and doesn't have a problem with dairies. He also doesn't think it's worth making a fuss about stuff like this, so I'm on my own here. Karen - Lucy Watkins Monday, September 08, 2003 2:10 PM Re: " Gifts " from animals Ack! I'm so stressed out about how to handle these things. Part of me thinks that these tours will help Joy and Shirlee see that there really are animals there being made into food. The other part of me fears such an atmosphere will normalize animal exploitation in their minds. I just don't know what to do about this. I've got a foot in each *camp* when it comes to this. Ugh. My stomach churns just thinking about it. Btw, I love your dh's response!! That's priceless! Lucy Karen Detling <kdetling wrote: My daughter attended a birthday party at a dairy this weekend. (I had mixed feelings about attending, but we did. It was organic, however.) There were other farm animals there too - some goats, chickens, horses, pigs, etc. At one point, the tour leader asked the children why farmers keep animals. The " answer " was that they feed and care for the animals because the animals give us gifts. What I found curious was that when asked what " gifts " chickens give, the children all said eggs (for cows milk, etc). None of them mentioned meat; I guess they do not realize the connection yet. It was the tour leader who brought up the meat issue - " chickens give us meat, do you like chicken nuggets? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Maybe rather than keeping her from going to those sort of field trips, you can turn it to your benefit by turning it into a learning experience. Ask questions, and (more importantly) encourage *her* to ask some as well. Point out that there aren't any male cows (or older ones) and pique her curiosity ... mold a future activist ... Obviously I prefer my boys share my lifestyle, but I consider it a greater victory if they reaches that decision on their own (as opposed to just growing up that way and doing it out of habit). IMO, habit is easy to break but a moral sense of right/wrong is much harder to crack under the pressure of a largely non-veg*n society. Ultimately the choice is his -- my job as a parent is to give all of the information they need to make an educated decision. My youngest boy is 3 -- at 2.5 he decided to try the meat at school (thank goodness he is only there two days a week). Not four months later, today he graciously refuses it .. it was a phase, hopefully an isolated one. At any rate I'm proud of him for making that decision *on his own* and an added benefit is that it didn't evolve into an unnecessary power struggle. My concern for you would be that your daughter comes to equate being a veg*n with something negative -- missing out on field trips or birthday parties, kwim?? If it is important to you, by all means " make a fuss " and give your girl the facts about animal (mis) treatment, but at the same time don't make such an extreme one that you don't take advantage of the opportunity to give her real-life exposure to the behind-the-scenes happenings. Respectfully, Mia , " Karen Detling " <kdetling@c...> wrote: > I stress too that these issues will come up more and more. Part of me thinks that she needs to learn to deal with differences and is bright enough to understand that there is more than one point of view. On the other, I think maybe we should take more of a stand and just say no, we won't go to such places. I mean, even if it's a pretty nice dairy as dairies go, there are still the issues about where all the boy cows go, what happens to the cows when they no longer produce milk, etc. One complication is that this is a big issue for me, but not an issue for my DH. He's vegetarian, not vegan, and doesn't have a problem with dairies. He also doesn't think it's worth making a fuss about stuff like this, so I'm on my own here. > > Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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