Guest guest Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Hi, I have been lurking on this list for years. I know this has been asked before, but does anyone have any ideas for snack type food for my daughter's third birthday party. It will be a Dora party and it's at 2:30 so we won't need a full meal. I do have a lot of non-veg friends and family attending. My daughter would be happy with a big bowl of hummus, but I'd like a few more really good snacks. Also, does anyone know where I can find natural food colorings for the cake? Thank you!! Stephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 In a message dated 11/11/2003 10:54:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, ss6055 writes: ideas for snack type food for my daughter's third birthday party. It will be a Dora party and it's at 2:30 so we won't need a full meal. I do have a lot of non-veg friends and family attending. My daughter would be happy with a big bowl of hummus, but I'd like a few more really good snacks. Also, does anyone know where I can find natural food colorings for the cake? Now that my son just turned 8, I have a fair amount of practice with vegan party food. Guacamole, or white bean dip. Stuffed mushrooms, tamari almonds. Nori rolls- I use all different types of veggies in addition to the regular cucumber, carrot and avocado. Like, green beans, sweet potatoes, and mushrooms. You can also make little vegan pizzas using pita or tortillas, layer a few toppings. A platter of fresh cut fruit and veggies. The food colorings can be odered from Dancing Deer on the web. Good luck! Peace, Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 http://www.naturesflavors.com/default.php?cPath=72 http://kitchenette.topcities.com/natural_colouring.html http://www.dancingdeer.com/store/ Also, > does anyone know where I can find natural food colorings for the cake? > Thank you!! > > Stephanie > > > > > For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to http://www.vrg.org/family. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Apple juice can be made more festive by adding Koolaid lemonade mix and no sugar. Lemonade is the only flavor I found with natural flavoring and less color than others; fruit punch flavor Koolaid is popular with kids. Juicy Juice is nothing but juice. You can mix juice with club soda or seltzer water into a spritzer, maybe with ice made from fruit juice. Carmine/cochineal is 'natural' color, but it comes from insects. Beet extract and anato are natural colors. The FDA has a web page that lists artificial colors they regulate, plus natural colors they don't regulate. I used cocoa powder to color icing in different shades. Pureed blueberry or other all fruit preserves can tint icing. Be kind. Be of good cheer. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Hi Stephanie, There are quite a few places on the net to get good snack ideas... one place i use for alot of my recipes is vegweb.com/food/ i have several for actually healthy vegan cookies... was a hit at my daughters Halloween party at school... she is the only vegan in the whole class and it makes a whole bunch and is easy to make... let me know... ttyl.. tricia , " ss6055 " <ss6055@c...> wrote: > Hi, I have been lurking on this list for years. I know this has been > asked before, but does anyone have any ideas for snack type food for > my daughter's third birthday party. It will be a Dora party and it's > at 2:30 so we won't need a full meal. I do have a lot of non-veg > friends and family attending. My daughter would be happy with a big > bowl of hummus, but I'd like a few more really good snacks. Also, > does anyone know where I can find natural food colorings for the cake? > Thank you!! > > Stephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2003 Report Share Posted November 12, 2003 Simple things are popcorn, nuts, crudites, fruit salad. More complex things are fruit kebabs, mini sandwiches, crackers with spreads. Peace and blessings, Tracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 dickford writes: Apple juice can be made more festive by adding Koolaid lemonade mix What type of chemicals, flavors etc. are in Koolaid? Peace, Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 From one Stephanie to another, I was wondering why you chose a cartoon character for the theme of the party. My daughter has always been responsible for coming up with a theme and she has never chosen a corporate logo (one year's was pirates last year dinosaurs), of course we watch almost no television. Anyway, one thing that we always have at our birthday parties is a big tray of fresh organic fruits. There is never any left. Peace, Stephanie , " ss6055 " <ss6055@c...> wrote: > Hi, I have been lurking on this list for years. I know this has been > asked before, but does anyone have any ideas for snack type food for > my daughter's third birthday party. It will be a Dora party and it's > at 2:30 so we won't need a full meal. I do have a lot of non-veg > friends and family attending. My daughter would be happy with a big > bowl of hummus, but I'd like a few more really good snacks. Also, > does anyone know where I can find natural food colorings for the cake? > Thank you!! > > Stephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 In the Koolaid section of the grocery store, all the flavors say 'artificial flavor' except lemonade and pink lemonade. The ingredients are nearly identical for the two flavors, with differences in which FDA colors are used to make it yellow or pink. Ingredients: citric acid (provides tartness) calcium phosphate (prevents caking), maltodextrin (from corn), salt, natural flavor, lemon juice solids, ascorbic acid (vitamin C), artificial color, --yellow 5 lake, yellow 5--red 40--BHA (preserves freshness). If you are concerned about FDA colors, you could use fresh or bottle lemon or lime juice with the apple juice, or add some Juicy Juice concentrate (not frozen) for color and extra flavor. Be kind. Be of good cheer. Dick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Ok i'm walking into this dilemma now... my daughters bday party is coming on dec 13... now she picked her own party theme...and since she is turning 5 its all about Barbie...barbie this barbie that...lol...last year she didnt pick anything except wanting all her party favors had to be purple... this year it all has to be pink and barbie... im hosting a vegan party for omni people..my daughter and i are the only vegs in the whole entire family...since mine is a family affair this year i dont think i will have any issues... i can order a cheeseless pizza and have fruits and veggies and call it a day... i hope... ive taken some of these ideas of guacamole and dips... and im using that..i find everyone loves mexican food... so thats easy enuff... tortillas and salsa... so thanks for all the ideas ppl have put forward... , " Stephanie " <sjoynsen@a...> wrote: > From one Stephanie to another, > I was wondering why you chose a cartoon character for the theme of > the party. My daughter has always been responsible for coming up > with a theme and she has never chosen a corporate logo (one year's > was pirates last year dinosaurs), of course we watch almost no > television. > > Anyway, one thing that we always have at our birthday parties is a > big tray of fresh organic fruits. There is never any left. > Peace, Stephanie > > > > , " ss6055 " <ss6055@c...> wrote: > > Hi, I have been lurking on this list for years. I know this has > been > > asked before, but does anyone have any ideas for snack type food > for > > my daughter's third birthday party. It will be a Dora party and > it's > > at 2:30 so we won't need a full meal. I do have a lot of non-veg > > friends and family attending. My daughter would be happy with a > big > > bowl of hummus, but I'd like a few more really good snacks. Also, > > does anyone know where I can find natural food colorings for the > cake? > > Thank you!! > > > > Stephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2003 Report Share Posted November 17, 2003 Hi, I guess I really shouldn't have included the Dora part when posting to this list. I know that most of the parents on this list probably don't let their kids watch ANY television at all, and they are probably better parents than me because of it. In answer to your question, my daughter does watch some commercial free television like PBS and Noggin and she chose her theme.....Dora. Stephanie Stephanie wrote: > >From one Stephanie to another, > I was wondering why you chose a cartoon character for the theme of > the party. My daughter has always been responsible for coming up > with a theme and she has never chosen a corporate logo (one year's > was pirates last year dinosaurs), of course we watch almost no > television. > > Anyway, one thing that we always have at our birthday parties is a > big tray of fresh organic fruits. There is never any left. > Peace, Stephanie > > > > , " ss6055 " <ss6055@c...> wrote: > > Hi, I have been lurking on this list for years. I know this has > been > > asked before, but does anyone have any ideas for snack type food > for > > my daughter's third birthday party. It will be a Dora party and > it's > > at 2:30 so we won't need a full meal. I do have a lot of non-veg > > friends and family attending. My daughter would be happy with a > big > > bowl of hummus, but I'd like a few more really good snacks. Also, > > does anyone know where I can find natural food colorings for the > cake? > > Thank you!! > > > > Stephanie > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Stephanie -- This is precisely why I don't post anything anymore. But I had to respond to let you know you weren't the only horrible mother on the list that lets her child watch television. Wait, I think social services is knocking now. Gotta run! ______________________ Message: 2 Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:06:04 -0800 Stephanie <ss6055 Re: Re: vegan ideas for birthday party Hi, I guess I really shouldn't have included the Dora part when posting to this list. I know that most of the parents on this list probably don't let their kids watch ANY television at all, and they are probably better parents than me because of it. In answer to your question, my daughter does watch some commercial free television like PBS and Noggin and she chose her theme.....Dora. Stephanie Stephanie wrote: > >From one Stephanie to another, > I was wondering why you chose a cartoon character for the theme of > the party. My daughter has always been responsible for coming up > with a theme and she has never chosen a corporate logo (one year's > was pirates last year dinosaurs), of course we watch almost no > television. > > Anyway, one thing that we always have at our birthday parties is a > big tray of fresh organic fruits. There is never any left. > Peace, Stephanie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 > Stephanie <ss6055 > Re: Re: vegan ideas for birthday party > > Hi, > I guess I really shouldn't have included the Dora part when posting to > this list. I know that most of the parents on this list probably don't > let their kids watch ANY television at all, and they are probably better > parents than me because of it. Aww, don't take it so personally, it's only email. ;-D Anyway, we don't own a TV but my son chose to be a Power Ranger for Halloween! Peace, Doh --------- " You have to live every day as if it's your last, because one of these days, you're bound to be right. " ~Breaker Morant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Stephanie As I put in my original email we are not television free. I don't think parents that eliminate television are better than me, they have just made different choices. If you really do feel that way perhaps you need to re-evaluate your decision regarding television. I just asked about the choice of themes because to me purchasing items that have a character on them is tantamount to paying a corporation for the priveledge of giving them free advertising. I am only in my 30's but things were different when I was a child. The only thing in our entire house that had characters on them were these sheets we had with Yogi Bear and Boo Boo on them. What I remember most about them were not the characters but that my sisters and I did not like them because they were stiff and uncomfortable compared to all the other sheets (must have been 100% polyester or something gross like that). Just like today those items sporting a logo or character are not usually the highest quality but are priced higher. Okay, I had characters on my lunchbox too. Anyway my point is that I was not surrounded by my favorite television characters and I definitely do not feel that I missed a thing. In fact, I feel that a child that does not get the opportunity to make decorations for their party or put together outfits or room decor that reflect their own sense of style are the ones that are missing out. Do I think that parents that differ from me on this are not as good a parent as me? Of course not. Your daughter may truly feel that Dora the Explorer is an expression of herself. When I see poorly made shoes that light up and sport Bob the Builder (or Nike swooshes from head to toe)I can't help but wonder if it occured to the parent that the choices they make and the wishes expressed by their children might actually be the choices and wishes of major coorporations that hire child psycologists for the express purpose of getting in the heads of our highly impressionable children and surrounds them/us with images of their product at every turn. Stepping off my soapbox now. Peace, Stephanie (in MD) , Stephanie <ss6055@c...> wrote: > Hi, > I guess I really shouldn't have included the Dora part when posting to > this list. I know that most of the parents on this list probably don't > let their kids watch ANY television at all, and they are probably better > parents than me because of it. In answer to your question, my daughter > does watch some commercial free television like PBS and Noggin and she > chose her theme.....Dora. > > > Stephanie > > Stephanie wrote: > > > >From one Stephanie to another, > > I was wondering why you chose a cartoon character for the theme of > > the party. My daughter has always been responsible for coming up > > with a theme and she has never chosen a corporate logo (one year's > > was pirates last year dinosaurs), of course we watch almost no > > television. > > > > Anyway, one thing that we always have at our birthday parties is a > > big tray of fresh organic fruits. There is never any left. > > Peace, Stephanie > > > > > > > > , " ss6055 " <ss6055@c...> wrote: > > > Hi, I have been lurking on this list for years. I know this has > > been > > > asked before, but does anyone have any ideas for snack type food > > for > > > my daughter's third birthday party. It will be a Dora party and > > it's > > > at 2:30 so we won't need a full meal. I do have a lot of non- veg > > > friends and family attending. My daughter would be happy with a > > big > > > bowl of hummus, but I'd like a few more really good snacks. Also, > > > does anyone know where I can find natural food colorings for the > > cake? > > > Thank you!! > > > > > > Stephanie > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 On Mon, 17 Nov 2003, Stephanie wrote: > Hi, > I guess I really shouldn't have included the Dora part when posting to > this list. I know that most of the parents on this list probably don't > let their kids watch ANY television at all, and they are probably better > parents than me because of it. I think it's probably a misconception that most parents on this list don't let their kids watch any tv. I know there are some for whom that is true, but I don't think it's a majority, or that parents who allow some tv are automatically inferior parents because of it. It's not a good thing when people on this list feel they have to hide how their families live to avoid being publicly shamed by others. ---- Patricia Bullington-McGuire <patricia The brilliant Cerebron, attacking the problem analytically, discovered three distinct kinds of dragon: the mythical, the chimerical, and the purely hypothetical. They were all, one might say, nonexistent, but each nonexisted in an entirely different way ... -- Stanislaw Lem, " Cyberiad " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Hey stephanie.... if because u let your daughter watch PBS and that makes you a bad parent than im the worst that has ever lived... lol... i do let my daughter watch tv..and ive also explained to her its all pretend... as i am a single mom in order to get the dishes done or what not sometimes my daughter chooses to watch tv versus playing in her room.. and i let it happen... my daughter watches PBS and other programs... oh well everybody raises their kids differently... im not too worried about my child growing up to be a serial killer due to tv... since the first sign of that is being mean to animals and she loves them...lol... , Stephanie <ss6055@c...> wrote: > Hi, > I guess I really shouldn't have included the Dora part when posting to > this list. I know that most of the parents on this list probably don't > let their kids watch ANY television at all, and they are probably better > parents than me because of it. In answer to your question, my daughter > does watch some commercial free television like PBS and Noggin and she > chose her theme.....Dora. > > > Stephanie > > Stephanie wrote: > > > >From one Stephanie to another, > > I was wondering why you chose a cartoon character for the theme of > > the party. My daughter has always been responsible for coming up > > with a theme and she has never chosen a corporate logo (one year's > > was pirates last year dinosaurs), of course we watch almost no > > television. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Stephanie, Just because you let ur child watch TV and the others on this group don't. That DOESN'T make them a better parent. AT ALL! It takes a lot more to be a great parent than " tv watching " so don't put urself down like that Diana >Stephanie <ss6055 > > >Re: Re: vegan ideas for birthday party >Mon, 17 Nov 2003 09:06:04 -0800 > > Hi, >I guess I really shouldn't have included the Dora part when posting to >this list. I know that most of the parents on this list probably don't >let their kids watch ANY television at all, and they are probably better >parents than me because of it. In answer to your question, my daughter >does watch some commercial free television like PBS and Noggin and she >chose her theme.....Dora. > > >Stephanie > >Stephanie wrote: > > > >From one Stephanie to another, > > I was wondering why you chose a cartoon character for the theme of > > the party. My daughter has always been responsible for coming up > > with a theme and she has never chosen a corporate logo (one year's > > was pirates last year dinosaurs), of course we watch almost no > > television. > > > > Anyway, one thing that we always have at our birthday parties is a > > big tray of fresh organic fruits. There is never any left. > > Peace, Stephanie > > > > > > > > , " ss6055 " <ss6055@c...> wrote: > > > Hi, I have been lurking on this list for years. I know this has > > been > > > asked before, but does anyone have any ideas for snack type food > > for > > > my daughter's third birthday party. It will be a Dora party and > > it's > > > at 2:30 so we won't need a full meal. I do have a lot of non-veg > > > friends and family attending. My daughter would be happy with a > > big > > > bowl of hummus, but I'd like a few more really good snacks. Also, > > > does anyone know where I can find natural food colorings for the > > cake? > > > Thank you!! > > > > > > Stephanie > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Stephanie, I think you make an excellent point with regards to using children as advertisement for corporations. I also support a balanced approach between creativity and a child's indentification with certain cartoon characters. I think that a child's use of imagination to create their own characters is essential too. I was recently asked by my brother (who does not have any children) why I don't let my son (16 mos) learn from video cassettes. I am not totally opposed to television, I carefully monitor what he does watch on PBS, but I don't think it is appropriate to allow him to sit for hours and learn colors, shapes, and sounds solely from the t.v or videos. In my opinion, it takes away from the parenting process for me. These educational tools are great supplements but spending time with my child, learning, is great for me. It's problematic when children that do not have their entire room decked out in Dora, with sheets, lunchbox, sneakers, hats, bookbag and feel bad about themselves because of it. Stephanie in MD <sjoynsen wrote: Stephanie As I put in my original email we are not television free. I don't think parents that eliminate television are better than me, they have just made different choices. If you really do feel that way perhaps you need to re-evaluate your decision regarding television. I just asked about the choice of themes because to me purchasing items that have a character on them is tantamount to paying a corporation for the priveledge of giving them free advertising. I am only in my 30's but things were different when I was a child. The only thing in our entire house that had characters on them were these sheets we had with Yogi Bear and Boo Boo on them. What I remember most about them were not the characters but that my sisters and I did not like them because they were stiff and uncomfortable compared to all the other sheets (must have been 100% polyester or something gross like that). Just like today those items sporting a logo or character are not usually the highest quality but are priced higher. Okay, I had characters on my lunchbox too. Anyway my point is that I was not surrounded by my favorite television characters and I definitely do not feel that I missed a thing. In fact, I feel that a child that does not get the opportunity to make decorations for their party or put together outfits or room decor that reflect their own sense of style are the ones that are missing out. Do I think that parents that differ from me on this are not as good a parent as me? Of course not. Your daughter may truly feel that Dora the Explorer is an expression of herself. When I see poorly made shoes that light up and sport Bob the Builder (or Nike swooshes from head to toe)I can't help but wonder if it occured to the parent that the choices they make and the wishes expressed by their children might actually be the choices and wishes of major coorporations that hire child psycologists for the express purpose of getting in the heads of our highly impressionable children and surrounds them/us with images of their product at every turn. Stepping off my soapbox now. Peace, Stephanie (in MD) , Stephanie <ss6055@c...> wrote: > Hi, > I guess I really shouldn't have included the Dora part when posting to > this list. I know that most of the parents on this list probably don't > let their kids watch ANY television at all, and they are probably better > parents than me because of it. In answer to your question, my daughter > does watch some commercial free television like PBS and Noggin and she > chose her theme.....Dora. > > > Stephanie > > Stephanie wrote: > > > >From one Stephanie to another, > > I was wondering why you chose a cartoon character for the theme of > > the party. My daughter has always been responsible for coming up > > with a theme and she has never chosen a corporate logo (one year's > > was pirates last year dinosaurs), of course we watch almost no > > television. > > > > Anyway, one thing that we always have at our birthday parties is a > > big tray of fresh organic fruits. There is never any left. > > Peace, Stephanie > > > > > > > > , " ss6055 " <ss6055@c...> wrote: > > > Hi, I have been lurking on this list for years. I know this has > > been > > > asked before, but does anyone have any ideas for snack type food > > for > > > my daughter's third birthday party. It will be a Dora party and > > it's > > > at 2:30 so we won't need a full meal. I do have a lot of non- veg > > > friends and family attending. My daughter would be happy with a > > big > > > bowl of hummus, but I'd like a few more really good snacks. Also, > > > does anyone know where I can find natural food colorings for the > > cake? > > > Thank you!! > > > > > > Stephanie > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 ss6055 writes: I know that most of the parents on this list probably don't let their kids watch ANY television at all, and they are probably better parents than me because of it. In answer to your question, my daughter does watch some commercial free television like PBS and Noggin and she chose her theme.....Dora. Stephanie, I'm also prob. in the minority of parents on this list. My son does watch some tv. Mostly PBS, also some movies and we do watch some sports. Yes, he does use the computer as well. We do our best to live in balance. We play as much as possible outside throughout the year and read and play games etc. etc. This year my son had his birthday party at a climbing wall, no theme! Just a vegan strawberry shortcake Bday cake! Peace, Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2003 Report Share Posted November 20, 2003 > Just because you let ur child watch TV and the others on this group >don't. That DOESN'T make them a better parent. AT ALL! It takes a lot more >to be a great parent than " tv watching " so don't put urself down like that > Hey, Diana,man, I could have used that positive message last month when the kill your tv discussion was going on. Thanks to all the ladies with uplifting things to say on the subject. I have often thought that TV watching has nothing to do with good or bad parenting. Everything in moderation, right? Love, Natalie Joy & her boys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2003 Report Share Posted November 21, 2003 Okay, so I'm a little behind here, but how about another idea? Since your family likes Mexican food, you could maybe let them build their own burritos. Sit out some flour tortillas, Spanish rice, refried beans, and fixin's like lettuce, tomatoes, onions, salsa, (and cheese, if you'd like) etc., and let everyone build a burrito to their own liking. This went over pretty well at my son's party a couple of years ago. Just a thought. Maria saphire_moon_2002 <taz121798 wrote: Ok i'm walking into this dilemma now... my daughters bday party is coming on dec 13... now she picked her own party theme...and since she is turning 5 its all about Barbie...barbie this barbie that...lol...last year she didnt pick anything except wanting all her party favors had to be purple... this year it all has to be pink and barbie... im hosting a vegan party for omni people..my daughter and i are the only vegs in the whole entire family...since mine is a family affair this year i dont think i will have any issues... i can order a cheeseless pizza and have fruits and veggies and call it a day... i hope... ive taken some of these ideas of guacamole and dips... and im using that..i find everyone loves mexican food... so thats easy enuff... tortillas and salsa... so thanks for all the ideas ppl have put forward... , " Stephanie " <sjoynsen@a...> wrote: > From one Stephanie to another, > I was wondering why you chose a cartoon character for the theme of > the party. My daughter has always been responsible for coming up > with a theme and she has never chosen a corporate logo (one year's > was pirates last year dinosaurs), of course we watch almost no > television. > > Anyway, one thing that we always have at our birthday parties is a > big tray of fresh organic fruits. There is never any left. > Peace, Stephanie > > > > , " ss6055 " <ss6055@c...> wrote: > > Hi, I have been lurking on this list for years. I know this has > been > > asked before, but does anyone have any ideas for snack type food > for > > my daughter's third birthday party. It will be a Dora party and > it's > > at 2:30 so we won't need a full meal. I do have a lot of non-veg > > friends and family attending. My daughter would be happy with a > big > > bowl of hummus, but I'd like a few more really good snacks. Also, > > does anyone know where I can find natural food colorings for the > cake? > > Thank you!! > > > > Stephanie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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