need opinions/advice...

[Guest guest]

This is what happened...

 

My mother telephoned me last week, complaining that she is tired of hosting all

of the family get-togethers at her home. I told her I would be happy to have

the christmas party at my house this year. She acted relieved and thanked me.

 

A few days later, she called and asked, " Um...it's not going to be a problem, is

it, if someone brings a spiral cut ham? "

 

I said, " Well...I don't think it's appropriate, but let me discuss it with Mike

and the kids. If they don't object to it, then I guess it will be okay. "

 

I asked the kids (ages 5, 3, & 3) what they thought, and they said, " Yuck! " " NO

WAY! " " Why can't they wait to eat dead pigs until they get home? " I asked my

husband for his opinion. He was really irritated and said he felt that them

bringing a big stinking ham into our house would be like a smoker going and

lighting up inside a non-smoker's house.

 

I called my mom back and told her that she should try to find someone else to

host the christmas party. She got really angry and said she just didn't know

why ham had to be an issue at all. I said, " I agree. I volunteered to have the

party at my house. The ham shouldn't be an issue at all. I have been

vegetarian for almost 14 years. My children have been vegetarian their entire

lives. My husband is vegetarian. No one should ever expect to come to our home

and consume animals. "

 

She then said, " Well...your kids need to get used to being around people who eat

meat. "

 

Um....Hello?! We live in Kansas. Everyone we know eats meat. We only know

one family of vegetarians in real life -- and they live almost 200 miles away

from us.

I said, " My kids are quite used to being around meat-eaters, however, our home

is the only space where they do not have to see people eating meat. I'm sorry.

There will be no ham on our table for christmas. "

 

My mom hung up on me. Now, noone in my family is speaking to me (except my

husband and children!)

 

Was I wrong? What would you have done?

 

Thanks,

Angela

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

alegna writes:

Was I wrong? What would you have done?

Angela,

You did Nothing wrong! Take a deep breath and keep reaching out to this

community.

I used to live in Kansas and know how it is.

I am now in Maryland and things are not quite so meat intensive.

I would have simply stated that we do not have animal products in our home.

Just as someone who is kosher does not have pork in their home.

Yes, your family do live in an area where they are bombarded by people eating

all kinds of dead animals. Maybe having your kids talk to your mom about how

they feel might help her to get another piece of the puzzle.

I would have offered to host a meatless holiday, or just have dessert at my

home.

Hope this helps a bit.

Peace,

Laura

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hooray for sticking to your values! Not everyone speaks up. You made a

difficult decision - but in my opinion - a correct one. Congratulations.

--Tracy

> My mom hung up on me. Now, noone in my family is speaking to me (except my

> husband and children!)

>

> Was I wrong? What would you have done?

>

> Thanks,

> Angela

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

No, you weren't wrong.

 

The only thing I would have done differently is I would have told my mother

that there would be no meat without talking to the rest of my family. Partly

I would have done that because I know I don't want it and that's enough and

partly so that it doesn't seem like you are ambivalent about it and then siding

with your husband/kids against your parents.

 

It seems to me that your family has never really accepted you and your

family, at least as far as your vegetarianism goes. I think that they need to

be

reminded that for the past fourteen years, you have put aside your food

preferences (ethics, principles, whichever works) in order to spend time

together

with your family and that it is not unreasonable for you to expect them to do

the

same for you once in a while. Wouldn't it be a shame if your family felt

more concern and attachment to a menu entree than to you and your kids,

particularly after you have been placing family first in these situations.

 

I don't think people realize what they are doing when they get so upset about

the fact that you are different from them in some way. Somehow the fact

that you're a family and should support each other and look for ways to be

together and connected gets completely lost.

 

Ask your mother if having that ham is really more important than spending

time on the holidays with her grandchildren, if what she eats is more important

than who she's with. I'd be interested in hearing her answer.

 

Good luck,

 

Phil Welsher

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I agree totally with ur decision... ur mother should understand that

it was a family decision to not have any meat in ur home... ur home

is probably the only place where ur children dont have to watch

people eating meat.. from the sounds of it doesnt sound like they

want to spend xmas watching family eating dead animals... i would of

done the same thing...

 

my daughters bday is coming up and i have made it completely vegan

for her so i dont have to run around behind her and she can have free

food roaming on her bday... my daughter and i are the only veg's in

our whole family... your husbands analogy is soo correct but for

some reason when it comes to food its supposedly totally different...

good luck with ur family...

 

tricia

 

 

, angela seibel <alegna@s...> wrote:

> This is what happened...

>

> My mother telephoned me last week, complaining that she is tired of

hosting all of the family get-togethers at her home. I told her I

would be happy to have the christmas party at my house this year.

She acted relieved and thanked me.

>

> A few days later, she called and asked, " Um...it's not going to be

a problem, is it, if someone brings a spiral cut ham? "

>

> I said, " Well...I don't think it's appropriate, but let me discuss

it with Mike and the kids. If they don't object to it, then I guess

it will be okay. "

>

> I asked the kids (ages 5, 3, & 3) what they thought, and they

said, " Yuck! " " NO WAY! " " Why can't they wait to eat dead pigs until

they get home? " I asked my husband for his opinion. He was really

irritated and said he felt that them bringing a big stinking ham into

our house would be like a smoker going and lighting up inside a non-

smoker's house.

>

> I called my mom back and told her that she should try to find

someone else to host the christmas party. She got really angry and

said she just didn't know why ham had to be an issue at all. I

said, " I agree. I volunteered to have the party at my house. The

ham shouldn't be an issue at all. I have been vegetarian for almost

14 years. My children have been vegetarian their entire lives. My

husband is vegetarian. No one should ever expect to come to our home

and consume animals. "

>

> She then said, " Well...your kids need to get used to being around

people who eat meat. "

>

> Um....Hello?! We live in Kansas. Everyone we know eats meat. We

only know one family of vegetarians in real life -- and they live

almost 200 miles away from us.

> I said, " My kids are quite used to being around meat-eaters,

however, our home is the only space where they do not have to see

people eating meat. I'm sorry. There will be no ham on our table

for christmas. "

>

> My mom hung up on me. Now, noone in my family is speaking to me

(except my husband and children!)

>

> Was I wrong? What would you have done?

>

> Thanks,

> Angela

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You did exactly what I would have done (except I wouldn't have even

asked my husband and kids, I'd have said no to the meat right off the

bat!). Your home is your sanctuary and you have every right to say

no meat allowed. If they want you to host the event, they should

accept that. If they cant go without meat for one meal than they

should have it at another location.

 

Rachael

[Guest guest]

> Was I wrong? What would you have done?

+++No, I don't think you were. People just don't get it.

My sister and (ex) boyfriend are real meat and potato type people. Every

time they came to visit, her BF made it obvious he had to leave to go some

where to get some meat. Just couldn't go w/o it for a couple of days.

After a couple of visits (my sis and I had just got back in touch from being

estranged) my sis started asking me if she could bring meat. She thought

since I wasn't actually buying it that it would be okay to bring some. I

said no, none of my pots or pans have been used to cook flesh EVER. She

said she would bring her own pans to cook the meat. I said no way, I am not

going to have the smell of cooked flesh in my home. I told her that if they

wanted meat to go out somewhere when they had the craving, since we are a

stones throw away from Arby's, " Jack " , BK, Mcd's, go pig out. We eventually

became estranged again and I don't have to deal with her anymore.

When people come to your home they have to respect the way you do things.

When we go to IL's houses we either eat before hand or bring veg food for

ourselves. I don't expect people to have to accommodate us.

I know that holiday food traditions die hard but geez, give me a break,

isn't it really about spending time together?

I am rambling here but the point I want to make is that you can't

accommodate everybody all the time.

I wouldn't expect my il's to make something for us that they don't usually

eat.

Good luck. I think your mom owes you an apology.

 

~*~*~Mitzi, who is going to make Thai food for Christmas dinner!

~~To the world you may be one person,

but to one person you may be the world~~

For PCO info...

http://www.health-alliance.com/hospitals/Jewish/glueck/polycyst.htm

[Guest guest]

Angela,

I never have time to respond to email anymore, but I HAD to make an

exception here. Short and sweet - you were not wrong. I'm sorry that your

mom even thought it was okay to ask you such a thing. My meat-eating parents

wouldn't have even suggested it. I get antsy about her putting her lactaid

milk in my fridge when she stays over (would it kill you to have soymilk in

your coffee when you stay here?) so the thought of someone bringing an

entire ham into my house makes me want to vomit. I'm so proud of your kids

for saying no way. I hope your family can get past this. It's unfortunate

you can't host as a result, but I think reasonable people should understand

why a family of ethical vegetarians would not want to do this. I wish I had

some more options/suggestions for you, but my email time is up already!

Leena

 

 

angela seibel [alegna]

Monday, December 01, 2003 4:06 PM

 

Re: need opinions/advice...

 

 

This is what happened...

 

My mother telephoned me last week, complaining that she is tired of hosting

all of the family get-togethers at her home. I told her I would be happy to

have the christmas party at my house this year. She acted relieved and

thanked me.

 

A few days later, she called and asked, " Um...it's not going to be a

problem, is it, if someone brings a spiral cut ham? "

qualified health professional.

[Guest guest]

Phil,

 

The funny thing is, my mother does not eat beef or pork (hasn't for years) --

just poultry and fish. She thinks that it wouldn't be Christmas for everyone

else in the family without the ham -- and that we should accomodate them.

 

Angela

 

 

PhilLand wrote:

 

Ask your mother if having that ham is really more important than spending

time on the holidays with her grandchildren, if what she eats is more important

than who she's with. I'd be interested in hearing her answer.

 

Good luck,

 

Phil Welsher

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to say thanks to all of you for the support. I have tears in my

eyes after reading your responses.

 

If only I could have all of you over for a vegan holiday feast!!!

 

Angela

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

That's a shame your prents don't recognize your deep-seated ethical

beliefs as being as valid as any religion. Would they be so angry if a

Jewish family said please not to bring pork into their home? Perhaps

mention that, and remind them that you can provide a delicious spread,

with good food and loved ones they shouldn't even miss the meat! And if

they still feel the meat is more important than visiting their family...

well, I guess I would be sad and hurt to be second place to a dead pig.

Good luck!

 

Jen

 

angela seibel wrote:

 

>This is what happened...

>

>My mother telephoned me last week, complaining that she is tired of hosting all

of the family get-togethers at her home. I told her I would be happy to have

the christmas party at my house this year. She acted relieved and thanked me.

>

>A few days later, she called and asked, " Um...it's not going to be a problem,

is it, if someone brings a spiral cut ham? "

>

>I said, " Well...I don't think it's appropriate, but let me discuss it with Mike

and the kids. If they don't object to it, then I guess it will be okay. "

>

>I asked the kids (ages 5, 3, & 3) what they thought, and they said, " Yuck! "

" NO WAY! " " Why can't they wait to eat dead pigs until they get home? " I asked

my husband for his opinion. He was really irritated and said he felt that them

bringing a big stinking ham into our house would be like a smoker going and

lighting up inside a non-smoker's house.

>

>I called my mom back and told her that she should try to find someone else to

host the christmas party. She got really angry and said she just didn't know

why ham had to be an issue at all. I said, " I agree. I volunteered to have the

party at my house. The ham shouldn't be an issue at all. I have been

vegetarian for almost 14 years. My children have been vegetarian their entire

lives. My husband is vegetarian. No one should ever expect to come to our home

and consume animals. "

>

>She then said, " Well...your kids need to get used to being around people who

eat meat. "

>

>Um....Hello?! We live in Kansas. Everyone we know eats meat. We only know

one family of vegetarians in real life -- and they live almost 200 miles away

from us.

>I said, " My kids are quite used to being around meat-eaters, however, our home

is the only space where they do not have to see people eating meat. I'm sorry.

There will be no ham on our table for christmas. "

>

>My mom hung up on me. Now, noone in my family is speaking to me (except my

husband and children!)

>

>Was I wrong? What would you have done?

>

>Thanks,

>Angela

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Mon, 1 Dec 2003, angela seibel wrote:

 

> Was I wrong? What would you have done?

 

The only thing I would have done differently is to refuse the ham during

the very first phone call. There is no reason you need to bring meat into

your home for a party if you don't want it.

 

My family has a standing rule that our home is a " vegan house " and only

vegan food is allowed to come into it. It is important to us to have a

refuge where we can relax and not worry about what's in our food, where we

can just enjoy the pleasure of eating and not have to be faced with

something we find both ethically and culinarily distasteful. It is as

inappropriate to ask a vegetarian to serve ham in their own home as it

would be to ask a kosher Jew to do so.

 

Besides, generally the host gets to set the menu, not the guests. That's

just standard party etiquette.

 

----

Patricia Bullington-McGuire <patricia

 

The brilliant Cerebron, attacking the problem analytically, discovered

three distinct kinds of dragon: the mythical, the chimerical, and the

purely hypothetical. They were all, one might say, nonexistent, but each

nonexisted in an entirely different way ...

-- Stanislaw Lem, " Cyberiad "

[Guest guest]

Angela,

 

I have to respond as well. There is talk of having next Thanksgiving dinner

here at our home next year - which I would enjoy hosting. But I am not sure

how the 'no turkey' idea will go over. In just talking with my mom, she just

casually said " Oh, no problem, they can just bring their own turkey " . Well

obviously that made me cringe. I enjoy hearing the feedback from others

regarding these situations and know that I am not alone.

 

Which brings me to something that may totally be off target, but just

wondering...has anyone had difficulty in choosing guardians for your

children? We have a 2 1/2 yo and another on the way and have been very bad

about not legally choosing guardians yet. It just is so hard when mine and

dh's siblings have very different ethics, morals, etc. from us. Anyway, this

may not even be appropriate to talk about on a veg*n board, but I guess I

wanted to see if others were going through the same thing...

 

Melodese

[Guest guest]

<< Which brings me to something that may totally be off target, but

just wondering...has anyone had difficulty in choosing guardians for

your children? We have a 2 1/2 yo and another on the way and have been

very bad about not legally choosing guardians yet. It just is so hard

when mine and dh's siblings have very different ethics, morals, etc.

from us. Anyway, this may not even be appropriate to talk about on a

veg*n board, but I guess I wanted to see if others were going through

the same thing... >>

 

I think this is very appropriate! My story is so long and complicated

that I won't get into it here, but the end result is that I chose my

best friend as my children's guardian, despite the fact that they are

an omniivore family, because I know she would respect my wishes in this

regard, whereas I have no family members I can trust in that way.

 

Think of it as a microcosm of the whole: if a family member doesn't

show you respect with regard to your beliefs vis-a-vis vegetarianism

now, while you're alive, how can you trust them to raise your children

according to your beliefs if you're not around to keep watch?

 

No matter what, write your will and name a guardian ASAP! You never

know what can happen in life, and the worst thing for your children

would be to have the courts decide, which is what happens if you die

intestate (without a will).

 

Liz

[Guest guest]

> " Oh, no problem, they can just bring their own turkey " . Well

> obviously that made me cringe. I enjoy hearing the feedback from others

> regarding these situations and know that I am not alone.

>

 

We had Easter here one year. I did allow ham to be brought, but there were

rules that went along with it. The ham had to be cooked before it got here

and it would not be put into my oven and it had to be cut before they

brought it here. I was still upset a bit about having it in my house, but

it wasn't as bad. I don't know if I will do that again though, now my four

year old is really into asking what things are and is grossed out when he

finds out that he is seeing dead animals.

 

Which brings me to something that may totally be off target, but just

> wondering...has anyone had difficulty in choosing guardians for your

> children?

 

I have had a hard time with that as well. I have so many things that are

important to me when it comes to my kids. I don't want anyone to EVER get

them vaccinated, I don't want them with someone who yells or will use

physical punishment on them and I would like for them to stay vegetarian. I

have however decided that while them staying vegetarian is important, them

being in a happy and loving home is more important. My sister is going to

take them, she is the most loving patient person in my family and she adores

my boys more than anything. I guess that as parents it is hard to pick

someone to raise our children because the thought of us not doing it is

unbearable!

 

Sara

[Guest guest]

mudpuddle writes:

has anyone had difficulty in choosing guardians for your

children? We have a 2 1/2 yo and another on the way and have been very bad

about not legally choosing guardians yet. It just is so hard when mine and

dh's siblings have very different ethics, morals, etc. from us.

We have had a difficult time with this subject as well.

We are in the process of making our choice from several options.

It's difficult to find the match when many people just don't seem on the same

ethical page.

Peace,

Laura

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

My son celebrating his 8th birthday a few weeks ago at a restaurant

with some relatives and he asked me before we went in if they were

going to eat meat. He said he didn't want to watch them eat it. I

really didn't know what to do - I dont' want him to have to watch

that but at the same time I am teaching him to accept others for who

they are. He handled it great - he kept asking my brother in law to

cover his plate so he didn't have to see the dead animals. He did it

with a sense of humor and nobody got defensive.

 

Cheryl

 

, " saphire_moon_2002 "

<taz121798> wrote:

> I agree totally with ur decision... ur mother should understand

that

> it was a family decision to not have any meat in ur home... ur home

> is probably the only place where ur children dont have to watch

> people eating meat.. from the sounds of it doesnt sound like they

> want to spend xmas watching family eating dead animals... i would

of

> done the same thing...

>

> my daughters bday is coming up and i have made it completely vegan

> for her so i dont have to run around behind her and she can have

free

> food roaming on her bday... my daughter and i are the only veg's in

> our whole family... your husbands analogy is soo correct but for

> some reason when it comes to food its supposedly totally

different...

> good luck with ur family...

>

> tricia

>

>

> , angela seibel <alegna@s...>

wrote:

> > This is what happened...

> >

> > My mother telephoned me last week, complaining that she is tired

of

> hosting all of the family get-togethers at her home. I told her I

> would be happy to have the christmas party at my house this year.

> She acted relieved and thanked me.

> >

> > A few days later, she called and asked, " Um...it's not going to

be

> a problem, is it, if someone brings a spiral cut ham? "

> >

> > I said, " Well...I don't think it's appropriate, but let me

discuss

> it with Mike and the kids. If they don't object to it, then I

guess

> it will be okay. "

> >

> > I asked the kids (ages 5, 3, & 3) what they thought, and they

> said, " Yuck! " " NO WAY! " " Why can't they wait to eat dead pigs

until

> they get home? " I asked my husband for his opinion. He was really

> irritated and said he felt that them bringing a big stinking ham

into

> our house would be like a smoker going and lighting up inside a non-

> smoker's house.

> >

> > I called my mom back and told her that she should try to find

> someone else to host the christmas party. She got really angry and

> said she just didn't know why ham had to be an issue at all. I

> said, " I agree. I volunteered to have the party at my house. The

> ham shouldn't be an issue at all. I have been vegetarian for

almost

> 14 years. My children have been vegetarian their entire lives. My

> husband is vegetarian. No one should ever expect to come to our

home

> and consume animals. "

> >

> > She then said, " Well...your kids need to get used to being around

> people who eat meat. "

> >

> > Um....Hello?! We live in Kansas. Everyone we know eats meat.

We

> only know one family of vegetarians in real life -- and they live

> almost 200 miles away from us.

> > I said, " My kids are quite used to being around meat-eaters,

> however, our home is the only space where they do not have to see

> people eating meat. I'm sorry. There will be no ham on our table

> for christmas. "

> >

> > My mom hung up on me. Now, noone in my family is speaking to me

> (except my husband and children!)

> >

> > Was I wrong? What would you have done?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Angela

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with your decision as well. That is your house and

you have a right to keep it meat free if you choose to. Your

children the same right to feel free from being uncomfortable with

meat consumption. I think family members of vegetarians need to be

more understanding of our decisions and be more respectful of our

decisions. My family took years to even ask me what they can have in

their home that we can eat. I used to pack all my own food every

time I visited. My friend won't even come here for any length of

time because she can't eat meat here. Oh well... Some people we

know will not even eat meat in front of us, which I think is very

thoughtful.

 

Cheryl

 

, " saphire_moon_2002 "

<taz121798> wrote:

> I agree totally with ur decision... ur mother should understand

that

> it was a family decision to not have any meat in ur home... ur home

> is probably the only place where ur children dont have to watch

> people eating meat.. from the sounds of it doesnt sound like they

> want to spend xmas watching family eating dead animals... i would

of

> done the same thing...

>

> my daughters bday is coming up and i have made it completely vegan

> for her so i dont have to run around behind her and she can have

free

> food roaming on her bday... my daughter and i are the only veg's in

> our whole family... your husbands analogy is soo correct but for

> some reason when it comes to food its supposedly totally

different...

> good luck with ur family...

>

> tricia

>

>

> , angela seibel <alegna@s...>

wrote:

> > This is what happened...

> >

> > My mother telephoned me last week, complaining that she is tired

of

> hosting all of the family get-togethers at her home. I told her I

> would be happy to have the christmas party at my house this year.

> She acted relieved and thanked me.

> >

> > A few days later, she called and asked, " Um...it's not going to

be

> a problem, is it, if someone brings a spiral cut ham? "

> >

> > I said, " Well...I don't think it's appropriate, but let me

discuss

> it with Mike and the kids. If they don't object to it, then I

guess

> it will be okay. "

> >

> > I asked the kids (ages 5, 3, & 3) what they thought, and they

> said, " Yuck! " " NO WAY! " " Why can't they wait to eat dead pigs

until

> they get home? " I asked my husband for his opinion. He was really

> irritated and said he felt that them bringing a big stinking ham

into

> our house would be like a smoker going and lighting up inside a non-

> smoker's house.

> >

> > I called my mom back and told her that she should try to find

> someone else to host the christmas party. She got really angry and

> said she just didn't know why ham had to be an issue at all. I

> said, " I agree. I volunteered to have the party at my house. The

> ham shouldn't be an issue at all. I have been vegetarian for

almost

> 14 years. My children have been vegetarian their entire lives. My

> husband is vegetarian. No one should ever expect to come to our

home

> and consume animals. "

> >

> > She then said, " Well...your kids need to get used to being around

> people who eat meat. "

> >

> > Um....Hello?! We live in Kansas. Everyone we know eats meat.

We

> only know one family of vegetarians in real life -- and they live

> almost 200 miles away from us.

> > I said, " My kids are quite used to being around meat-eaters,

> however, our home is the only space where they do not have to see

> people eating meat. I'm sorry. There will be no ham on our table

> for christmas. "

> >

> > My mom hung up on me. Now, noone in my family is speaking to me

> (except my husband and children!)

> >

> > Was I wrong? What would you have done?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Angela

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Melodese,

 

You're not alone.....we've kind of been struggling with the same thing. My dh

is omni, but we made the decision together to raise the kids veg*n. However,

we're the only vegetarians on either side of the family. The only person I feel

that I could truly trust to raise our kids in the manner that we would is my

best friend, who is really more like a sister to me. She's also vegetarian, and

she shares my spiritual beliefs as well. My husband is concerned, though, that

she may not be the best choice due to some past health concerns. So, like you,

we still haven't made a final decision on this all-important issue.

 

I'm glad you brought this up, actually, because I'd kind of like to hear others'

opinions and experiences.....

 

Maria

 

 

 

mudpuddle wrote:

Which brings me to something that may totally be off target, but just

wondering...has anyone had difficulty in choosing guardians for your

children? We have a 2 1/2 yo and another on the way and have been very bad

about not legally choosing guardians yet. It just is so hard when mine and

dh's siblings have very different ethics, morals, etc. from us. Anyway, this

may not even be appropriate to talk about on a veg*n board, but I guess I

wanted to see if others were going through the same thing...

 

Melodese

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Angela,

 

I have great respect that you could tell your family not to come with any meat.

I let my in-laws come over on big occassions, they are very big meat eaters, and

I thought I was doing well by telling them if they wanted meat to bring it

themselves. I thought my husband would get some benefit of having his favorite

meals that I would never cook (he non-veg), even though the smells make me sick

to my stomach. At first my m-i-l would surprise us and say she's coming over,

and bring an entire meal. At the time I was glad I didn't have to worry about

doing any hostessing and they could just help themselves. When they come over,

I'm pleased to play all the kids and avoid any dinnertime conversations, since

my f-i-l always throws in a joke about how I can eat fish since it's " organic " .

Since reading the postings how people don't even allow others to bring food

over, I felt a little bit more out of place last time.

 

Thanks,

 

J

 

 

the VRG website at http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for

families go to http://www.vrg.org/family.