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Madeline,

 

Hello! I don't know much about antibiotic ingredients and such, but I do know

that giving lots of probiotics *during*, and for a few weeks after, antibiotics

is very beneficial. You don't want to wait until after the antibiotics! There

is a dairy-free version for children. Let me know if you need me to find the

brand for you.

 

As an aside to anyone else interested in this topic, I've cured every ear

infection any of my three children have had with garlic oil drops in the ears,

which is also anti-inflammatory so helps with the pain even better than the

numbing drops. My pediatrician doesn't believe me - she thinks one *cannot* get

rid of an ear infection without antibiotics!

 

Also my son and I just had a horrendous bout of thrush and were given

Nystatin. Instead we both took megadoses of probiotics, and I applied the

probiotics to my breast as well. It took only a week and we are both fine - no

Nystatin needed!

 

Warmest Wishes,

Tanya

 

 

 

 

 

Better first dates. More second dates. Personals

 

 

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RULE of thumb - IF your child has a BACTERIAL INFECTION - get the prescription

for anti-biotics- IF YOUR CHILD has a VIRAL INFECTION - do not give

anti-biotics!!

 

This is the advice from my homeopathic/pediatrician, family Dr.)

 

We have had our Dr. for over 12 years - He has only prescribed anti-biotics 3x -

all for Lime disease a bacterial infection - Ear infections as infrequent as

they were - we cut up garlic, put olive oil on a cotton ball and band-aid that

to the ear - worked everytime.

 

ANTI-BIOTICS DO NOT CURE VIRAL INFECTIONS - they only weaken the immune system.

I would say that scarlet fever is a bacterial infection - anti-biotics are

necessary!

 

(PS - for adults with cold symptoms -take Zinc pills- they taste awful bt work

great (COLD EEZE is a great brand name)

 

You did the right thing!

 

Terry Somerson <terry wrote:

 

 

My five-year-old son is seldom sick, but antibiotics have been prescribed for

him several times over the course of his life. I've always given him the

medicine without worrying about it. If he had chronic problems such as ear

infections I would look for alternative therapies. But for infrequent

infections, I'd much prefer to ease his discomfort and get him back on his feet

quickly by giving him the amoxycillin (which if I recall correctly has always

been pink).

 

Terry

 

 

I realize this is off topic and I hope it doesn't bother anyone. This is my

number one parenting resource.

 

My 5 year old son was diagnosed with scarlet fever which sometimes develops

after strep throat. I waited 4 days before going to the doctor doing my own

home medicine which mostly involves patience, rest, etc though in this case

included grapefruitseed extract, echinacea, and homeopathic meds. When there

was little to no improvement I visited the doc and was given a prescription

for antibiotics. Now, my son has never yet had conventional meds or

antibiotics in spite of being diagnosed with 'possible' asthma, numerous ear

infections from 3 months to 2 years, conjunctivitus (twice), chicken pox

(not formally diagnosed), etc. However, with the risk of rheumatic fever and

complications and,to be honest, as my energy was waning because I too

developed strep throat, I took the prescription. I thought about it for a

day before having it filled but could not come up with another alternative.

 

I have 2 questions. First, what is in the amoxycillin (sp?) to make it that

nuclear yellow colour? In future, which I hope there never is, could I

simply ask for him to have penecillin pills as I was given? He hates bananas

anyway so the amoxy isn't a huge hit. What is the safest antibiotic for

kids? And adults too for that matter. Secondly, how do the rest of you deal

with these situations? My friend has a 3 year old who only has one

antibiotic option left to him now because his body is resistent to all the

others. So scary to me. In case we ever really need it I want to have lots

of options. But I believe the only way to ensure this is to use meds as

infrequently as possible. Oh, let me throw in a third. What do you do after

antibiotics. I think I remember hearing that probiotics for a month after

are necessary. Anything else?

 

Thanks in advance. I look forward to the input as I hope to be better

prepared next time.

 

:)Madeline

 

 

 

 

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My girls usually only need anti-biotics once a year or so. They are 5 and 6.

If they have strep they definately need the antiobiotic. I definately don't go

running to the Dr. for every little thing because I also want to keep them off

the anti-biotics. One thing that I have found to work for myself is swabbing my

throat with tea tree oil everytime cold/sore throat/aching ears symptoms appear.

This tastes extremely nasty but most every time will knock out whatever I have.

Unfortunately I have never been able to get the girls to do this.....just the

smell gets to them little lone trying to get it near their mouth. As an adult

though I can get through it, and it's much better than trying to gag down

something like Nyquil (sp?)

Kelly

 

Lauren Niedel <lniedel wrote:

 

RULE of thumb - IF your child has a BACTERIAL INFECTION - get the prescription

for anti-biotics- IF YOUR CHILD has a VIRAL INFECTION - do not give

anti-biotics!!

 

This is the advice from my homeopathic/pediatrician, family Dr.)

 

We have had our Dr. for over 12 years - He has only prescribed anti-biotics 3x -

all for Lime disease a bacterial infection - Ear infections as infrequent as

they were - we cut up garlic, put olive oil on a cotton ball and band-aid that

to the ear - worked everytime.

 

ANTI-BIOTICS DO NOT CURE VIRAL INFECTIONS - they only weaken the immune system.

I would say that scarlet fever is a bacterial infection - anti-biotics are

necessary!

 

(PS - for adults with cold symptoms -take Zinc pills- they taste awful bt work

great (COLD EEZE is a great brand name)

 

You did the right thing!

 

Terry Somerson <terry wrote:

 

 

My five-year-old son is seldom sick, but antibiotics have been prescribed for

him several times over the course of his life. I've always given him the

medicine without worrying about it. If he had chronic problems such as ear

infections I would look for alternative therapies. But for infrequent

infections, I'd much prefer to ease his discomfort and get him back on his feet

quickly by giving him the amoxycillin (which if I recall correctly has always

been pink).

 

Terry

 

 

I realize this is off topic and I hope it doesn't bother anyone. This is my

number one parenting resource.

 

My 5 year old son was diagnosed with scarlet fever which sometimes develops

after strep throat. I waited 4 days before going to the doctor doing my own

home medicine which mostly involves patience, rest, etc though in this case

included grapefruitseed extract, echinacea, and homeopathic meds. When there

was little to no improvement I visited the doc and was given a prescription

for antibiotics. Now, my son has never yet had conventional meds or

antibiotics in spite of being diagnosed with 'possible' asthma, numerous ear

infections from 3 months to 2 years, conjunctivitus (twice), chicken pox

(not formally diagnosed), etc. However, with the risk of rheumatic fever and

complications and,to be honest, as my energy was waning because I too

developed strep throat, I took the prescription. I thought about it for a

day before having it filled but could not come up with another alternative.

 

I have 2 questions. First, what is in the amoxycillin (sp?) to make it that

nuclear yellow colour? In future, which I hope there never is, could I

simply ask for him to have penecillin pills as I was given? He hates bananas

anyway so the amoxy isn't a huge hit. What is the safest antibiotic for

kids? And adults too for that matter. Secondly, how do the rest of you deal

with these situations? My friend has a 3 year old who only has one

antibiotic option left to him now because his body is resistent to all the

others. So scary to me. In case we ever really need it I want to have lots

of options. But I believe the only way to ensure this is to use meds as

infrequently as possible. Oh, let me throw in a third. What do you do after

antibiotics. I think I remember hearing that probiotics for a month after

are necessary. Anything else?

 

Thanks in advance. I look forward to the input as I hope to be better

prepared next time.

 

:)Madeline

 

 

 

 

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If you don't mind my asking, how did you go about applying a probiotic to the

breast? I've only seen them in powder form, so that's why I'm curious. You can

reply to me directly if you'd like.

 

Maria

 

 

Tanya L <telnjml wrote:

 

 

 

 

Instead we both took megadoses of probiotics, and I applied the probiotics to my

breast as well. It took only a week and we are both fine - no Nystatin needed!

 

Warmest Wishes,

Tanya

 

 

 

 

 

Better first dates. More second dates. Personals

 

 

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Patricia,

Are you sure you aren't confusing Scarlet Fever with Rheumatic Fever?

According to what I've read and what our ped says, Scarlet Fever is a rash

that occurs either with Strep Throat or Impetigo. Rheumatic Fever develops

as a result of untreated Strep Throat or Scarlet Fever. Even though the

symptoms of the Strep Throat or Scarlet Fever go away when left untreated,

the strep is still in the body and can cause Rheumatic Fever which is what

can cause irreparable damage in primarily ages 6 - 15 years old.

 

God's Peace,

Gayle

-

" Patricia Bullington-McGuire " <patricia

 

Monday, April 04, 2005 4:27 PM

Re: antibiotics

 

 

>

>

> On Mon, 4 Apr 2005, Madeline White wrote:

>

>> My 5 year old son was diagnosed with scarlet fever which sometimes

>> develops

>> after strep throat. I waited 4 days before going to the doctor doing my

>> own

>> home medicine which mostly involves patience, rest, etc though in this

>> case

>> included grapefruitseed extract, echinacea, and homeopathic meds. When

>> there

>> was little to no improvement I visited the doc and was given a

>> prescription

>> for antibiotics. Now, my son has never yet had conventional meds or

>> antibiotics in spite of being diagnosed with 'possible' asthma, numerous

>> ear

>> infections from 3 months to 2 years, conjunctivitus (twice), chicken pox

>> (not formally diagnosed), etc. However, with the risk of rheumatic fever

>> and

>> complications and,to be honest, as my energy was waning because I too

>> developed strep throat, I took the prescription. I thought about it for a

>> day before having it filled but could not come up with another

>> alternative.

>

> My son also had scarlet fever. He was 2 at the time. I also usually avoid

> antibiotics, but scarlet fever is one case where I was very, very glad to

> have them. My mother had scarlet fever as a child and still has residual

> damage from it now, in her 60s. Scarlet fever can kill, or blind, or

> deafen, or do any number of other permanent, life-altering things to a

> child. Using the anti-biotics was the right call. In fact, one of the

> reasons I decline antibiotics in ordinary circumstances is to minimize the

> risk of drug resistance that can render them ineffective when they are

> really needed for truly serious illnesses, like this.

>

>> I have 2 questions. First, what is in the amoxycillin (sp?) to make it

>> that

>> nuclear yellow colour? In future, which I hope there never is, could I

>> simply ask for him to have penecillin pills as I was given? He hates

>> bananas

>> anyway so the amoxy isn't a huge hit. What is the safest antibiotic for

>> kids? And adults too for that matter.

>

> Amoxicillin is one of the safest antibiotics. It is a penicillin variant.

> I have no idea why it was yellow. Straight penicillin is no longer the

> first drug of choice in most cases because so many bugs are resistant to

> it at this point. But if your son ever needs antibiotics again, you can

> certainly tell the doctor that it's hard to get him to take the

> amoxycillin and you would prefer something else. There are lots of

> antibiotics on the market to choose from.

>

>> Secondly, how do the rest of you deal

>> with these situations? My friend has a 3 year old who only has one

>> antibiotic option left to him now because his body is resistent to all

>> the

>> others. So scary to me. In case we ever really need it I want to have

>> lots

>> of options. But I believe the only way to ensure this is to use meds as

>> infrequently as possible.

>

> I decline antibiotics for my kids unless the illness is really serious, or

> if they are seriously suffering and my resolve breaks, which has happened

> a couple of times with extreme ear infections that pain-killers alone

> could not handle. Actually, usually I just take the prescription and

> never fill it -- it's easier than arguing, and it gives me the option of

> filling it quickly if I change me mind, which I rarely do.

>

>> Oh, let me throw in a third. What do you do after

>> antibiotics. I think I remember hearing that probiotics for a month after

>> are necessary. Anything else?

>

> I just make sure to feed my kids soy yogurt with active cultures during

> and for a few days after the antibiotics. That seems to be enough to keep

> down any diarrhea resulting from the antibiotics wiping out beneficial

> bacteria in the gut, and my kids practically live on the stuff anyway so

> it's easy enough to do. I tried to give my son probiotics from a bottle

> once but he hated it so I gave up on that avenue.

>

> ----

> Patricia Bullington-McGuire <patricia

>

> The brilliant Cerebron, attacking the problem analytically, discovered

> three distinct kinds of dragon: the mythical, the chimerical, and the

> purely hypothetical. They were all, one might say, nonexistent, but each

> nonexisted in an entirely different way ...

> -- Stanislaw Lem, " Cyberiad "

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

> http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

> http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

> provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

> qualified health professional.

>

> edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

> professional.

>

>

>

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Studies also show that ear infections left untreated will clear up at the

same rate that ear infections that are treated in anyway clear up.

 

God's Peace,

Gayle

 

-

" Tanya L " <telnjml

 

Monday, April 04, 2005 7:12 PM

antibiotics

 

 

>

>

>

>

>

> Madeline,

>

> Hello! I don't know much about antibiotic ingredients and such, but I do

> know that giving lots of probiotics *during*, and for a few weeks after,

> antibiotics is very beneficial. You don't want to wait until after the

> antibiotics! There is a dairy-free version for children. Let me know if

> you need me to find the brand for you.

>

> As an aside to anyone else interested in this topic, I've cured every ear

> infection any of my three children have had with garlic oil drops in the

> ears, which is also anti-inflammatory so helps with the pain even better

> than the numbing drops. My pediatrician doesn't believe me - she thinks

> one *cannot* get rid of an ear infection without antibiotics!

>

> Also my son and I just had a horrendous bout of thrush and were given

> Nystatin. Instead we both took megadoses of probiotics, and I applied the

> probiotics to my breast as well. It took only a week and we are both

> fine - no Nystatin needed!

>

> Warmest Wishes,

> Tanya

>

>

>

>

>

> Better first dates. More second dates. Personals

>

>

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What do you do after

antibiotics. I think I remember hearing that probiotics for a month after

are necessary. Anything else?

 

Hi Madeline

 

This is a very tough decision. My ped won't even give antibiotics unless he is

sure that the child has a bacterial infection. My kids have rarely taken them.

When they have I have always given acidophilous at the same time. My dd had

bronchitis a couple of weeks ago and she took an antibiotic. I gave her a

probiotic twice a day until a few days after the meds stopped. My opinion on

meds is that parents have to weigh the risks of the meds against the risk of the

disease. I think that antibiotics can be a useful thing if they are only used

on rare occasions. Good luck

 

 

 

Carol, mom to

Melissa, 3/14/94

Julia, 2/18/97

Lily, 9/7/04

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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It's true that most ear infections are viral in nature and don't require an

antibiotic. My 7 yo DS is currently on a 4 week course of Bactrim because

of a severe(and rare!) bacterial infection in his right ear. We tried tea

tree oil, garlic, antibiotic drops and finally after having the fluid

cultured, the doctor diagnosed an odd strain of bacteria in his ear. He has

had problems with this ear for most of his life, and I trust our ENT

inherently. We go through every possible remedy before resorting to

cultures and/or antibiotics. He has even sent us to an infectious diseases

specialist to see if DS had an immune deficiency of some sort. Since this

particular infection had persisted for more than 2 months, we all felt it

was necessary to use the antibiotics, since there is some chance of having

the infection spread to the mastoid. Again, I guess the message is,

sometimes antibiotics are the right thing.

 

Noreen

 

 

quintmom [quintmom]

Tuesday, April 05, 2005 6:14 AM

 

Re: antibiotics

 

 

 

 

Studies also show that ear infections left untreated will clear up at the

same rate that ear infections that are treated in anyway clear up.

 

God's Peace,

Gayle

 

-

" Tanya L " <telnjml

 

Monday, April 04, 2005 7:12 PM

antibiotics

 

 

>

>

>

>

>

> Madeline,

>

> Hello! I don't know much about antibiotic ingredients and such, but I do

> know that giving lots of probiotics *during*, and for a few weeks after,

> antibiotics is very beneficial. You don't want to wait until after the

> antibiotics! There is a dairy-free version for children. Let me know if

> you need me to find the brand for you.

>

> As an aside to anyone else interested in this topic, I've cured every ear

> infection any of my three children have had with garlic oil drops in the

> ears, which is also anti-inflammatory so helps with the pain even better

> than the numbing drops. My pediatrician doesn't believe me - she thinks

> one *cannot* get rid of an ear infection without antibiotics!

>

> Also my son and I just had a horrendous bout of thrush and were given

> Nystatin. Instead we both took megadoses of probiotics, and I applied the

> probiotics to my breast as well. It took only a week and we are both

> fine - no Nystatin needed!

>

> Warmest Wishes,

> Tanya

>

>

>

>

>

> Better first dates. More second dates. Personals

>

>

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Sometimes, to prevent yeast infections, one may want to eat yogurt with active

yeast in it. :) That is really all you need to do.

 

carol sobczak <cpsobczak wrote:

 

What do you do after

antibiotics. I think I remember hearing that probiotics for a month after

are necessary. Anything else?

 

Hi Madeline

 

This is a very tough decision. My ped won't even give antibiotics unless he is

sure that the child has a bacterial infection. My kids have rarely taken them.

When they have I have always given acidophilous at the same time. My dd had

bronchitis a couple of weeks ago and she took an antibiotic. I gave her a

probiotic twice a day until a few days after the meds stopped. My opinion on

meds is that parents have to weigh the risks of the meds against the risk of the

disease. I think that antibiotics can be a useful thing if they are only used

on rare occasions. Good luck

 

 

 

Carol, mom to

Melissa, 3/14/94

Julia, 2/18/97

Lily, 9/7/04

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 quintmom wrote:

 

> Patricia,

> Are you sure you aren't confusing Scarlet Fever with Rheumatic Fever?

> According to what I've read and what our ped says, Scarlet Fever is a rash

> that occurs either with Strep Throat or Impetigo. Rheumatic Fever develops

> as a result of untreated Strep Throat or Scarlet Fever. Even though the

> symptoms of the Strep Throat or Scarlet Fever go away when left untreated,

> the strep is still in the body and can cause Rheumatic Fever which is what

> can cause irreparable damage in primarily ages 6 - 15 years old.

 

Nope, I'm not confusing them. Scarlet Fever can turn into Rheumatic

Fever. If you wait until it does, you've waited to long. The symptoms

are different, but the underlying infection is the same thing. Strep in

any of its forms is not something to take lightly precisely because it can

morph into more serious forms.

 

----

Patricia Bullington-McGuire <patricia

 

The brilliant Cerebron, attacking the problem analytically, discovered

three distinct kinds of dragon: the mythical, the chimerical, and the

purely hypothetical. They were all, one might say, nonexistent, but each

nonexisted in an entirely different way ...

-- Stanislaw Lem, " Cyberiad "

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I used to squirt garlic oil from a pierced capsule into my son's ear. Worked

great and rarely needed further treatment.

 

Jacqueline

 

>

> Lauren Niedel <lniedel

> 2005/04/04 Mon PM 10:47:44 EST

>

> Re: antibiotics

>

>

>

> RULE of thumb - IF your child has a BACTERIAL INFECTION - get the prescription

for anti-biotics- IF YOUR CHILD has a VIRAL INFECTION - do not give

anti-biotics!!

>

> This is the advice from my homeopathic/pediatrician, family Dr.)

>

> We have had our Dr. for over 12 years - He has only prescribed anti-biotics 3x

- all for Lime disease a bacterial infection - Ear infections as infrequent as

they were - we cut up garlic, put olive oil on a cotton ball and band-aid that

to the ear - worked everytime.

>

> ANTI-BIOTICS DO NOT CURE VIRAL INFECTIONS - they only weaken the immune

system.

> I would say that scarlet fever is a bacterial infection - anti-biotics are

necessary!

>

> (PS - for adults with cold symptoms -take Zinc pills- they taste awful bt work

great (COLD EEZE is a great brand name)

>

> You did the right thing!

>

> Terry Somerson <terry wrote:

>

>

> My five-year-old son is seldom sick, but antibiotics have been prescribed for

him several times over the course of his life. I've always given him the

medicine without worrying about it. If he had chronic problems such as ear

infections I would look for alternative therapies. But for infrequent

infections, I'd much prefer to ease his discomfort and get him back on his feet

quickly by giving him the amoxycillin (which if I recall correctly has always

been pink).

>

> Terry

>

>

> I realize this is off topic and I hope it doesn't bother anyone. This is my

> number one parenting resource.

>

> My 5 year old son was diagnosed with scarlet fever which sometimes develops

> after strep throat. I waited 4 days before going to the doctor doing my own

> home medicine which mostly involves patience, rest, etc though in this case

> included grapefruitseed extract, echinacea, and homeopathic meds. When there

> was little to no improvement I visited the doc and was given a prescription

> for antibiotics. Now, my son has never yet had conventional meds or

> antibiotics in spite of being diagnosed with 'possible' asthma, numerous ear

> infections from 3 months to 2 years, conjunctivitus (twice), chicken pox

> (not formally diagnosed), etc. However, with the risk of rheumatic fever and

> complications and,to be honest, as my energy was waning because I too

> developed strep throat, I took the prescription. I thought about it for a

> day before having it filled but could not come up with another alternative.

>

> I have 2 questions. First, what is in the amoxycillin (sp?) to make it that

> nuclear yellow colour? In future, which I hope there never is, could I

> simply ask for him to have penecillin pills as I was given? He hates bananas

> anyway so the amoxy isn't a huge hit. What is the safest antibiotic for

> kids? And adults too for that matter. Secondly, how do the rest of you deal

> with these situations? My friend has a 3 year old who only has one

> antibiotic option left to him now because his body is resistent to all the

> others. So scary to me. In case we ever really need it I want to have lots

> of options. But I believe the only way to ensure this is to use meds as

> infrequently as possible. Oh, let me throw in a third. What do you do after

> antibiotics. I think I remember hearing that probiotics for a month after

> are necessary. Anything else?

>

> Thanks in advance. I look forward to the input as I hope to be better

> prepared next time.

>

> :)Madeline

>

>

>

>

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Gayle,

 

I'd like to believe that is true, but .... can you recall any

references for the studies you mentioned? I'd like to check them out.

 

I've seen so many conflicting studies over the years that I've grown

skeptical unless a clear consensus emerges.

 

- Alan

 

, <quintmom@n...> wrote:

>

> Studies also show that ear infections left untreated will clear up at

the

> same rate that ear infections that are treated in anyway clear up.

>

> God's Peace,

> Gayle

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Carol

 

This was a question I had. I was told not to give probiotics at the same

time as antibiotics because antibiotics kills all bacteria, even good.

Instead, I was told to wait until the antibiotics stop and give probiotics

for at least a month after? This sounds totally different to what you are

doing. I can't ask my doc because he is very anti-alternative meds. If

anyone knows more about this, please advise.

 

:)Madeline

 

>carol sobczak <cpsobczak

>

>

>Re: antibiotics

>Tue, 5 Apr 2005 05:16:37 -0700 (PDT)

>

>

>

> What do you do after

>antibiotics. I think I remember hearing that probiotics for a month after

>are necessary. Anything else?

>

>Hi Madeline

>

>This is a very tough decision. My ped won't even give antibiotics unless

>he is sure that the child has a bacterial infection. My kids have rarely

>taken them. When they have I have always given acidophilous at the same

>time. My dd had bronchitis a couple of weeks ago and she took an

>antibiotic. I gave her a probiotic twice a day until a few days after the

>meds stopped. My opinion on meds is that parents have to weigh the risks

>of the meds against the risk of the disease. I think that antibiotics can

>be a useful thing if they are only used on rare occasions. Good luck

>

>

>

>Carol, mom to

>Melissa, 3/14/94

>Julia, 2/18/97

>Lily, 9/7/04

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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It was bright yellow banana flavoured. I am in Canada though so there may be

a dif. In hindsight, because I have a son who is used to flax oil and liquid

multis etc, I should have just asked for the pill form penecillin....ahhhh,

hindsight!

 

><quintmom

>

>

>Re: antibiotics

>Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:16:02 -0400

>

>

>Hi Madeline,

>The amoxicillin that my kids have taken in the past has always been pink

>and

>bubble gum flavored. I have never seen yellow, banana flavored amoxil.

>That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just that I have never seen it. When I

>suspect strep throat, I always take my kids to the doc and if confirmed

>always give the antibiotics due to the risk of rheumatic fever - as you

>said. There is another antibiotic that our pediatrician sometimes gives

>that is a mild yellow flavor but I think it's a lemon flavor. I can't

>remember the name of it right now. If I understand correctly (which is

>many

>times a long shot!), amoxil/amoxicillin is a form of penicillin.

>

>God's Peace,

>Gayle

>

>-

> " Madeline White " <madeline_killian

>

>Sunday, April 03, 2005 8:48 PM

> antibiotics

>

>

> >

> >

> > I realize this is off topic and I hope it doesn't bother anyone. This is

> > my

> > number one parenting resource.

> >

> > My 5 year old son was diagnosed with scarlet fever which sometimes

> > develops

> > after strep throat. I waited 4 days before going to the doctor doing my

> > own

> > home medicine which mostly involves patience, rest, etc though in this

> > case

> > included grapefruitseed extract, echinacea, and homeopathic meds. When

> > there

> > was little to no improvement I visited the doc and was given a

> > prescription

> > for antibiotics. Now, my son has never yet had conventional meds or

> > antibiotics in spite of being diagnosed with 'possible' asthma, numerous

> > ear

> > infections from 3 months to 2 years, conjunctivitus (twice), chicken pox

> > (not formally diagnosed), etc. However, with the risk of rheumatic fever

> > and

> > complications and,to be honest, as my energy was waning because I too

> > developed strep throat, I took the prescription. I thought about it for

>a

> > day before having it filled but could not come up with another

> > alternative.

> >

> > I have 2 questions. First, what is in the amoxycillin (sp?) to make it

> > that

> > nuclear yellow colour? In future, which I hope there never is, could I

> > simply ask for him to have penecillin pills as I was given? He hates

> > bananas

> > anyway so the amoxy isn't a huge hit. What is the safest antibiotic for

> > kids? And adults too for that matter. Secondly, how do the rest of you

> > deal

> > with these situations? My friend has a 3 year old who only has one

> > antibiotic option left to him now because his body is resistent to all

>the

> > others. So scary to me. In case we ever really need it I want to have

>lots

> > of options. But I believe the only way to ensure this is to use meds as

> > infrequently as possible. Oh, let me throw in a third. What do you do

> > after

> > antibiotics. I think I remember hearing that probiotics for a month

>after

> > are necessary. Anything else?

> >

> > Thanks in advance. I look forward to the input as I hope to be better

> > prepared next time.

> >

> > :)Madeline

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website

>at

> > http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go

>to

> > http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended

>to

> > provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from

>a

> > qualified health professional.

> >

> > edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

> > professional.

> >

> >

> >

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Guest guest

Antibiotics for strep can be a vicious cycle. Since the body never

fights off the infection, it never gains resistance to it. I had

recurring (about twice a year) strep during my childhood and for

most of my teenage years. It's the only thing I ever has

antibiotics for, but my mom got them for me every time. It wasn't

until we declined antibiotics to give my body a chance to fight it

off once and for all that I got over strep completely, and by

completely I mean I never got it again. I've seen this in other

children as well, including my neice. She had to go through a cycle

of strep w/o antibiotics until she stopped getting it. We all now

use a sore throat homeopathic remedy (Heel/BHI Inflammation, which

has, among other things, strep and flu nosodes in it) at the first

sign of a sore throat. Getting strep once or twice isn't as big of

a deal, but if it becomes recurring then alternative methods may be

needed to " proof " the body against it.

 

Just fyi, you can also get the strep nosode (homeopathic) by

itself. It works for all kinds of strep and can prevent you from

getting it again. A good book for home care of children, and

knowing when to take them to the doctor, is " Have a Healthy Child,

in Spite of your Doctor " (or something like that). Written by a guy

who'd been a pediatrician for 20-30 years.

 

My own kids have never had antibiotics for anything, and if they

have had strep I wouldn't know it. They've never had anything that

didn't go away in 3-5 days. We have very a homeopath, a naturopath,

and a chiropractor at our disposal, though, and we would do

antibiotics if they deemed it necessary. I am also in school to be

a naturopath myself, which is coming in handy.

 

You can't really give probiotics too long. I'd say give them at

*least* a month. Many people give them for general wellness year-

round (as do we) and can tell a difference when they slack off.

Also, it's best to get one that has multiple types of friendly

bacteria.

 

Hopefully you won't have to go through this again any time soon.

 

:) Shayla

 

, " Madeline White "

<madeline_killian@h...> wrote:

> My 5 year old son was diagnosed with scarlet fever which sometimes

develops

> after strep throat.

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Guest guest

Well, everyone else has already given tons of good advice on using

antibiotics. I'll just add something regarding the flavor and color.

Next time try looking for a " compounding pharmacy. " Ask at the

pharmacy you usually use if they do compounding, if not they should be

able to tell you who in the area does. Then you should be able to work

with them to get just what you want in the medicine and none of what

you don't want. I found out about this when I had a cold with a

lingering cough and I wanted a syrup with just a cough suppressant, no

other medicines, no dyes, and no artificial sweeteners or artificial

flavors. Impossible to find on the shelves! They mixed me up

dextromethorphan in a simple sugar syrup with only a natural

peppermint flavor. It is SO irritating that when we do decide we want

to give our children a " chemical " medicine because their condition

warrants it, a hard enough decision for us " natural " types, you can't

get just the medicine, it comes with artificial dyes and artificial

flavors and artificial sweeteners and chemical preservatives too!

Anyway, a good compounding pharmacy should have the pure form of the

antibiotic and then can mix it up for you without the bright yellow

dye and gross banana flavor. Or if your child is old enough to take a

pill, you could get it in pill or capsule form.

Good luck!

 

Jen

 

, " Madeline White "

<madeline_killian@h...> wrote:

>

> I realize this is off topic and I hope it doesn't bother anyone.

This is my

> number one parenting resource.

>

> My 5 year old son was diagnosed with scarlet fever which sometimes

develops

> after strep throat. I waited 4 days before going to the doctor doing

my own

> home medicine which mostly involves patience, rest, etc though in

this case

> included grapefruitseed extract, echinacea, and homeopathic meds.

When there

> was little to no improvement I visited the doc and was given a

prescription

> for antibiotics. Now, my son has never yet had conventional meds or

> antibiotics in spite of being diagnosed with 'possible' asthma,

numerous ear

> infections from 3 months to 2 years, conjunctivitus (twice), chicken

pox

> (not formally diagnosed), etc. However, with the risk of rheumatic

fever and

> complications and,to be honest, as my energy was waning because I too

> developed strep throat, I took the prescription. I thought about it

for a

> day before having it filled but could not come up with another

alternative.

>

> I have 2 questions. First, what is in the amoxycillin (sp?) to make

it that

> nuclear yellow colour? In future, which I hope there never is, could I

> simply ask for him to have penecillin pills as I was given? He hates

bananas

> anyway so the amoxy isn't a huge hit. What is the safest antibiotic for

> kids? And adults too for that matter. Secondly, how do the rest of

you deal

> with these situations? My friend has a 3 year old who only has one

> antibiotic option left to him now because his body is resistent to

all the

> others. So scary to me. In case we ever really need it I want to

have lots

> of options. But I believe the only way to ensure this is to use meds as

> infrequently as possible. Oh, let me throw in a third. What do you

do after

> antibiotics. I think I remember hearing that probiotics for a month

after

> are necessary. Anything else?

>

> Thanks in advance. I look forward to the input as I hope to be better

> prepared next time.

>

> :)Madeline

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Guest guest

Alan,

I will try to find the study I read. It's been about a year or so that I

read it, so bear with me as I try to remember and find it.

 

God's Peace,

Gayle

 

-

" Alan " <soy_decaf_latte

 

Tuesday, April 05, 2005 2:47 PM

Re: antibiotics

 

 

>

>

>

> Gayle,

>

> I'd like to believe that is true, but .... can you recall any

> references for the studies you mentioned? I'd like to check them out.

>

> I've seen so many conflicting studies over the years that I've grown

> skeptical unless a clear consensus emerges.

>

> - Alan

>

> , <quintmom@n...> wrote:

>>

>> Studies also show that ear infections left untreated will clear up at

> the

>> same rate that ear infections that are treated in anyway clear up.

>>

>> God's Peace,

>> Gayle

>

>

>

>

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

> http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

> http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

> provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

> qualified health professional.

>

> edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

> professional.

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Hey Patricia,

But, Scarlet Fever, in and of itself does not cause any residual problems

unless left untreated and even then only in a small percentage of those left

untreated. Scarlet Fever is no more dangerous than Strep Throat in that

BOTH can lead to Rheumatic fever which causes chronic progressive damage to

the heart and its valves, joints, nervous system and skin. I've read

nowhere about the blindness, etc... that you wrote about. Can you point me

to a resource about that? I'd love to learn more about it since one of my

kids is so suceptible to Strep Throat. On the Mayo Clinic site, it says

that: " Most cases of strep throat don't lead to rheumatic fever. In fact,

even in untreated cases, only a small percentage of people with strep throat

develop rheumatic fever. " That goes along with what our pediatrician says.

I was also told that normally there needs to be more than a few times of

untreated Strep Throat or Scarlet fever in a person to possibly result in

Rheumatic fever rather than one time alone. I found a couple of websites

with info about Rheumatic Fever that might be helpful to anyone who wants to

read more: http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm?id=DS00250

http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic509.htm

 

I still advocate antibiotics when anyone gets Strep Throat or Scarlet Fever

or even Impetigo (also caused by the strep A bacteria). To me, even a small

percentage of untreated strep A bacteria leading to Rheumatic Fever is too

large a percentage to risk for my children. I'm sure you would agree.

 

God's Peace,

Gayle

 

-

" Patricia Bullington-McGuire " <patricia

 

Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:07 AM

Re: antibiotics

 

 

>

>

> On Tue, 5 Apr 2005 quintmom wrote:

>

>> Patricia,

>> Are you sure you aren't confusing Scarlet Fever with Rheumatic Fever?

>> According to what I've read and what our ped says, Scarlet Fever is a

>> rash

>> that occurs either with Strep Throat or Impetigo. Rheumatic Fever

>> develops

>> as a result of untreated Strep Throat or Scarlet Fever. Even though the

>> symptoms of the Strep Throat or Scarlet Fever go away when left

>> untreated,

>> the strep is still in the body and can cause Rheumatic Fever which is

>> what

>> can cause irreparable damage in primarily ages 6 - 15 years old.

>

> Nope, I'm not confusing them. Scarlet Fever can turn into Rheumatic

> Fever. If you wait until it does, you've waited to long. The symptoms

> are different, but the underlying infection is the same thing. Strep in

> any of its forms is not something to take lightly precisely because it can

> morph into more serious forms.

>

> ----

> Patricia Bullington-McGuire <patricia

>

> The brilliant Cerebron, attacking the problem analytically, discovered

> three distinct kinds of dragon: the mythical, the chimerical, and the

> purely hypothetical. They were all, one might say, nonexistent, but each

> nonexisted in an entirely different way ...

> -- Stanislaw Lem, " Cyberiad "

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

> http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

> http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

> provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

> qualified health professional.

>

> edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

> professional.

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Thanx, Jen! What good advice. I don't know if we have a pharmacy here like

that but I'll have to look for one and try your suggestion if any of my

kids ever need conventional meds again.

 

God's Peace,

Gayle

 

-

" jpetrusplus " <jen.petrus

 

Wednesday, April 06, 2005 12:38 AM

Re: antibiotics

 

 

>

>

>

> Well, everyone else has already given tons of good advice on using

> antibiotics. I'll just add something regarding the flavor and color.

> Next time try looking for a " compounding pharmacy. " Ask at the

> pharmacy you usually use if they do compounding, if not they should be

> able to tell you who in the area does. Then you should be able to work

> with them to get just what you want in the medicine and none of what

> you don't want. I found out about this when I had a cold with a

> lingering cough and I wanted a syrup with just a cough suppressant, no

> other medicines, no dyes, and no artificial sweeteners or artificial

> flavors. Impossible to find on the shelves! They mixed me up

> dextromethorphan in a simple sugar syrup with only a natural

> peppermint flavor. It is SO irritating that when we do decide we want

> to give our children a " chemical " medicine because their condition

> warrants it, a hard enough decision for us " natural " types, you can't

> get just the medicine, it comes with artificial dyes and artificial

> flavors and artificial sweeteners and chemical preservatives too!

> Anyway, a good compounding pharmacy should have the pure form of the

> antibiotic and then can mix it up for you without the bright yellow

> dye and gross banana flavor. Or if your child is old enough to take a

> pill, you could get it in pill or capsule form.

> Good luck!

>

> Jen

>

> , " Madeline White "

> <madeline_killian@h...> wrote:

>>

>> I realize this is off topic and I hope it doesn't bother anyone.

> This is my

>> number one parenting resource.

>>

>> My 5 year old son was diagnosed with scarlet fever which sometimes

> develops

>> after strep throat. I waited 4 days before going to the doctor doing

> my own

>> home medicine which mostly involves patience, rest, etc though in

> this case

>> included grapefruitseed extract, echinacea, and homeopathic meds.

> When there

>> was little to no improvement I visited the doc and was given a

> prescription

>> for antibiotics. Now, my son has never yet had conventional meds or

>> antibiotics in spite of being diagnosed with 'possible' asthma,

> numerous ear

>> infections from 3 months to 2 years, conjunctivitus (twice), chicken

> pox

>> (not formally diagnosed), etc. However, with the risk of rheumatic

> fever and

>> complications and,to be honest, as my energy was waning because I too

>> developed strep throat, I took the prescription. I thought about it

> for a

>> day before having it filled but could not come up with another

> alternative.

>>

>> I have 2 questions. First, what is in the amoxycillin (sp?) to make

> it that

>> nuclear yellow colour? In future, which I hope there never is, could I

>> simply ask for him to have penecillin pills as I was given? He hates

> bananas

>> anyway so the amoxy isn't a huge hit. What is the safest antibiotic for

>> kids? And adults too for that matter. Secondly, how do the rest of

> you deal

>> with these situations? My friend has a 3 year old who only has one

>> antibiotic option left to him now because his body is resistent to

> all the

>> others. So scary to me. In case we ever really need it I want to

> have lots

>> of options. But I believe the only way to ensure this is to use meds as

>> infrequently as possible. Oh, let me throw in a third. What do you

> do after

>> antibiotics. I think I remember hearing that probiotics for a month

> after

>> are necessary. Anything else?

>>

>> Thanks in advance. I look forward to the input as I hope to be better

>> prepared next time.

>>

>> :)Madeline

>

>

>

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

> http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

> http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

> provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

> qualified health professional.

>

> edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

> professional.

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Thanks so much. I had no idea.

 

> " jpetrusplus " <jen.petrus

>

>

> Re: antibiotics

>Wed, 06 Apr 2005 04:38:51 -0000

>

>

>

>Well, everyone else has already given tons of good advice on using

>antibiotics. I'll just add something regarding the flavor and color.

>Next time try looking for a " compounding pharmacy. " Ask at the

>pharmacy you usually use if they do compounding, if not they should be

>able to tell you who in the area does. Then you should be able to work

>with them to get just what you want in the medicine and none of what

>you don't want. I found out about this when I had a cold with a

>lingering cough and I wanted a syrup with just a cough suppressant, no

>other medicines, no dyes, and no artificial sweeteners or artificial

>flavors. Impossible to find on the shelves! They mixed me up

>dextromethorphan in a simple sugar syrup with only a natural

>peppermint flavor. It is SO irritating that when we do decide we want

>to give our children a " chemical " medicine because their condition

>warrants it, a hard enough decision for us " natural " types, you can't

>get just the medicine, it comes with artificial dyes and artificial

>flavors and artificial sweeteners and chemical preservatives too!

>Anyway, a good compounding pharmacy should have the pure form of the

>antibiotic and then can mix it up for you without the bright yellow

>dye and gross banana flavor. Or if your child is old enough to take a

>pill, you could get it in pill or capsule form.

>Good luck!

>

>Jen

>

> , " Madeline White "

><madeline_killian@h...> wrote:

> >

> > I realize this is off topic and I hope it doesn't bother anyone.

>This is my

> > number one parenting resource.

> >

> > My 5 year old son was diagnosed with scarlet fever which sometimes

>develops

> > after strep throat. I waited 4 days before going to the doctor doing

>my own

> > home medicine which mostly involves patience, rest, etc though in

>this case

> > included grapefruitseed extract, echinacea, and homeopathic meds.

>When there

> > was little to no improvement I visited the doc and was given a

>prescription

> > for antibiotics. Now, my son has never yet had conventional meds or

> > antibiotics in spite of being diagnosed with 'possible' asthma,

>numerous ear

> > infections from 3 months to 2 years, conjunctivitus (twice), chicken

>pox

> > (not formally diagnosed), etc. However, with the risk of rheumatic

>fever and

> > complications and,to be honest, as my energy was waning because I too

> > developed strep throat, I took the prescription. I thought about it

>for a

> > day before having it filled but could not come up with another

>alternative.

> >

> > I have 2 questions. First, what is in the amoxycillin (sp?) to make

>it that

> > nuclear yellow colour? In future, which I hope there never is, could I

> > simply ask for him to have penecillin pills as I was given? He hates

>bananas

> > anyway so the amoxy isn't a huge hit. What is the safest antibiotic for

> > kids? And adults too for that matter. Secondly, how do the rest of

>you deal

> > with these situations? My friend has a 3 year old who only has one

> > antibiotic option left to him now because his body is resistent to

>all the

> > others. So scary to me. In case we ever really need it I want to

>have lots

> > of options. But I believe the only way to ensure this is to use meds as

> > infrequently as possible. Oh, let me throw in a third. What do you

>do after

> > antibiotics. I think I remember hearing that probiotics for a month

>after

> > are necessary. Anything else?

> >

> > Thanks in advance. I look forward to the input as I hope to be better

> > prepared next time.

> >

> > :)Madeline

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Madeline,

In our wellness practice, we advise clients to give probiotics at the same

time as antibiotics and continue for several days past the last dose of

anitbiotics. The probiotics will give the body a leg up. The antibiotics will

kill

some of the bacteria from the probiotics, but not all.

If you have more detailed questions, please feel free to email me.

Peace,

Laura

 

madeline_killian writes:

I was told not to give probiotics at the same

time as antibiotics because antibiotics kills all bacteria, even good.

Instead, I was told to wait until the antibiotics stop and give probiotics

for at least a month after? This sounds totally different to what you are

doing. I can't ask my doc because he is very anti-alternative meds. If

anyone knows more about this, please advise.

 

 

 

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Guest guest

Shayla, what probiotic do you recommend and where do you get it? BTW, I

had the carribean avocado sandwich at Brookview today - YUMMY!!

 

 

 

 

wisheyemay [happyvegan]

Tuesday, April 05, 2005 3:27 PM

 

Re: antibiotics

 

 

 

 

 

Antibiotics for strep can be a vicious cycle. Since the body never

fights off the infection, it never gains resistance to it. I had

recurring (about twice a year) strep during my childhood and for

most of my teenage years. It's the only thing I ever has

antibiotics for, but my mom got them for me every time. It wasn't

until we declined antibiotics to give my body a chance to fight it

off once and for all that I got over strep completely, and by

completely I mean I never got it again. I've seen this in other

children as well, including my neice. She had to go through a cycle

of strep w/o antibiotics until she stopped getting it. We all now

use a sore throat homeopathic remedy (Heel/BHI Inflammation, which

has, among other things, strep and flu nosodes in it) at the first

sign of a sore throat. Getting strep once or twice isn't as big of

a deal, but if it becomes recurring then alternative methods may be

needed to " proof " the body against it.

 

Just fyi, you can also get the strep nosode (homeopathic) by

itself. It works for all kinds of strep and can prevent you from

getting it again. A good book for home care of children, and

knowing when to take them to the doctor, is " Have a Healthy Child,

in Spite of your Doctor " (or something like that). Written by a guy

who'd been a pediatrician for 20-30 years.

 

My own kids have never had antibiotics for anything, and if they

have had strep I wouldn't know it. They've never had anything that

didn't go away in 3-5 days. We have very a homeopath, a naturopath,

and a chiropractor at our disposal, though, and we would do

antibiotics if they deemed it necessary. I am also in school to be

a naturopath myself, which is coming in handy.

 

You can't really give probiotics too long. I'd say give them at

*least* a month. Many people give them for general wellness year-

round (as do we) and can tell a difference when they slack off.

Also, it's best to get one that has multiple types of friendly

bacteria.

 

Hopefully you won't have to go through this again any time soon.

 

:) Shayla

 

, " Madeline White "

<madeline_killian@h...> wrote:

> My 5 year old son was diagnosed with scarlet fever which sometimes

develops

> after strep throat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website

at http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families

go to http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not

intended to provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be

obtained from a qualified health professional.

 

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

 

 

 

 

 

 

_____

 

 

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Guest guest

On Wed, 6 Apr 2005 quintmom wrote:

 

> Hey Patricia,

> But, Scarlet Fever, in and of itself does not cause any residual problems

> unless left untreated and even then only in a small percentage of those left

> untreated. Scarlet Fever is no more dangerous than Strep Throat in that

> BOTH can lead to Rheumatic fever which causes chronic progressive damage to

> the heart and its valves, joints, nervous system and skin.

 

To me it seems like picking nits to say that scarlet fever is not

dangerous, it's only the rheumatic fever that scarlet fever can lead to

that's dangerous. Scarlet fever can lead to rheumatic fever. Rheumatic

fever can kill. Ergo, scarlet fever is dangerous, IMO.

 

> I've read

> nowhere about the blindness, etc... that you wrote about. Can you point me

> to a resource about that? I'd love to learn more about it since one of my

> kids is so suceptible to Strep Throat.

 

Helen Keller was blinded and deafened by an illness that was then

diagnosed as " brain fever " but which many modern doctors believe was

probably scarlet fever.

 

http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=1 & TopicID=129

 

Mary Ingalls, the sister of Laura Ingalls Wilder of Little House on the

Prairie fame, was also blinded by scarlet fever.

 

http://www.harpercollins.com/global_scripts/product_catalog/book_xml.asp?isbn=00\

60264160 & tc=cx

 

----

Patricia Bullington-McGuire <patricia

 

The brilliant Cerebron, attacking the problem analytically, discovered

three distinct kinds of dragon: the mythical, the chimerical, and the

purely hypothetical. They were all, one might say, nonexistent, but each

nonexisted in an entirely different way ...

-- Stanislaw Lem, " Cyberiad "

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Guest guest

Patricia,

Thank you for the links. I will read them more carefully. I will also call

my cousin who works at the CDC and see what she has to say - this is a

resource I tend to lean on quite heavily.

 

Let us agree to disagree on the other matters as I think in some sense we

are saying the same thing.

 

God's PEace,

Gayle

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