Family Farms and animal products

May 29, 2005

I personally would not eat animals, even under the circumstances you

mentioned, because I don't think of animals as food anymore. I just

don't think we have the right to end the life of another being when

there are so many other options. I basically think of food as a

delivery system for all the nutrients we need to stay healthy, and if

we can find delivery systems that don't require the suffering (because

no slaughter is truly without suffering) and death of other creatures,

then I see no reason not to choose those other options. Plus, I truly

LOVE vegan food. I love the world of grains, vegetables, and legumes

that opened up for me when I stopped relying on animal meat for my

meals. You use the word " indulge " , which implies that eating meat is a

treat--but I think most people who go for any length of time without it

start to see it for what it really represents--death. My mom stayed

with us for two months last fall, and after living in a vegan house for

that long, she found it impossible to go back to eating meat once she

returned home. So now she's vegetarian! And loving it. Carol Adams, in

her great book Living Among Meat Eaters, talks about the differing view

that veg*ns and meat-eaters have when they see meat. Meat-eaters see it

as life (life giving) and we see it as death.

Having said that, I know that we are still a minority (Eric Schlosser

is not even a vegetarian), so I wish that people who do eat meat would

choose to purchase from smaller farms that at least have some

conscience about the lives they control.

My two cents!

:-)

Amy

On Saturday, May 28, 2005, at 05:31 AM,

wrote:

> Also: at the risk of being harpooned for mentioning this: would any of

> you purchase and

> eat meat if you knew the farmer, knew the farm, and knew the butcher

> was a small-town

> kind of guy where (hopefully) issues like those raised in Fast Food

> Nation don't exist?

> Meaning-- if you knew the cows had a good life, a humane end and safe

> butchering

> practices would you occassionally indulge? regularly?

May 29, 2005

Angel <darranged wrote:

Also: at the risk of being harpooned for mentioning this: would any of you

purchase and

eat meat if you knew the farmer, knew the farm, and knew the butcher was a

small-town

kind of guy where (hopefully) issues like those raised in Fast Food Nation don't

exist?

Meaning-- if you knew the cows had a good life, a humane end and safe butchering

practices would you occassionally indulge? regularly?

Hi Angel

Good question

I would not eat it no matter what the cow's life was like. I guess because I

know what it's death would be like. I used to love meat. I stopped eating it

for health reasons. The more I read about vegetarianism the more I stayed

vegetarian for ethical reasons. I have come to believe that being veg is a

spiritual practice. I think one of the challenges of this life is to recognize

the value in all life and to learn to respect life. I think the more we can do

this the closer we get to the Divine. I've been thinking about this a lot. I

came to this belief because I had a hard time responding to several of the

arguements against being vegetarian. For this same reason I don't eat eggs or

dairy. It helps me not to preach to non-vegetarians because I can understand

that everyone is on thier own path and come to things in thier own time.

Carol, mom to

Melissa, 3/14/94

Julia, 2/18/97

Lily, 9/7/04

May 30, 2005

>> if you knew the cows had a good life, a humane end and safe

butchering practices would you occassionally indulge? regularly?

You are brave! But I know this is something that some people think

about, including some close friends of mine.

I think your framing of the question misses the mark, because I

don't believe it is possible for farms, which must make money, to

provide cows (or pigs, chickens, etc.) with a good life and a humane

end. Farm animals are restricted in their behaviors, live only a

fraction of their normal lifespan, and experience pain. They also

suffer emotionally, as described in great detail in the book, " When

Elephants Weep " by Masson & McCarthy.

I wrote to PETA a couple months ago asking them their opinion on

organic farms. Below is an excerpt of the response they sent. It's

more than you asked for, but it provides a well rounded response to

the suggestion that their is a humane way to produce meat.

- Alan

--------------

In the end, eating meat, milk, or eggs—whether organic or

conventionally-produced—causes unneccesary suffering.

Unfortunately, animals raised on most " organic " farms suffer

the

same conditions that characterize factory farms. The " organic "

designation indicates what the animals may be fed, or which

medications or other substances they can receive, but it has less to

do with the ways in which the animals are treated. Cows and chickens

used for organic food " production " are still subject to most of the

same cruelties as their non-organic counterparts.

In order for a cow to produce milk, for example, she must have a

calf. On dairy farms, cows are impregnated every year in order to

keep up a steady supply of milk. In the natural order of things, the

cow's calf would drink her milk (eliminating her " need " to be milked

by humans). But cows on dairy farms have their babies taken away

within a day or two of birth so that humans can have the milk nature

intended for calves. This is extremely traumatic for both mother and

child, and the male calves are often sold for cruelly-obtained veal.

Hens used for organic eggs may be confined indoors in crowded cages,

just like chickens on conventional factory farms. Although chickens

can live for 15 years, hens on egg farms are " spent, " or unable to

produce enough eggs to remain profitable, after one or two years.

Even on small family farms, birds are kept for only two or three

years. Worn-out hens are usually sold to slaughterhouses or to live-

poultry markets. On all egg farms, male chicks are considered

worthless: At birth, they are dumped into trash cans to suffocate

one on top of another, thrown alive into a grinder, or sold for

school science projects and to laboratories.

To make matters worse, animals on organic farms may have to suffer

through illnesses and infections since farmers may be reluctant to

give an animal antibiotics or other medicines which might prevent

the " product " from being sold as organic. Even if pesticides and

other chemicals are avoided, farming of animals still contributes to

environmental destruction (http://www.goveg.com/feat/enviro.html)

and, of course, all of these animals will wind up in the

slaughterhouse, where many may be bled, scalded or skinned while

fully conscious (http://www.goveg.com/feat/a-favs-farm.html).

For more about " free-range " and " organic " meat, milk, and eggs,

please see our factsheet at

http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=96. You may also be

interested in this article from Salon:

http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2005/04/13/milk/index.html.

I hope this information is helpful. Thanks again for writing and for

your concern for animals.

Sincerely,

Jeff Mackey

Correspondent

People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

May 30, 2005

Well said Amy :-) Ditto for me ; vegan forever . To me

Meat IS murder,

Teresa

Family Farms and animal products

* I personally would not eat animals, even under the circumstances

you