I'm not sure my children are thriving...

[Guest guest]

Every so often, I begin to have grave doubts about keeping my

children vegan while they are so young. I've heard people say

that " there's plenty of time for them to be strict vegan later, when

nutrition is not so crucial " and at times I think they may be right.

 

My children are 5 and almost 2. When pregnant with my 5yo, I was

not vegetarian, let alone vegan, but I became veg right after his

birth, and vegan a few months later. He has been very advanced

developmentally all of his life, although he is very small and

thin. No worries, I think, because his father is only 5'5 " and I'm

shorter than that. But I've been noticing that he's got hair on his

legs and upper lip. Just " peach fuzz " on his lip, and no pubic hair

in any other area, but are kids *supposed* to have peach fuzz at

that age? I can't remember, and I don't know many other mothers to

ask. Could this be something to do with hormones, like maybe from

too much soy (which we really don't eat, just tofu)? Or from

breastfeeding so long (3+ years)? Otherwise he is very healthy and

strong, despite looking small and somewhat weak.

 

Now, with my 1.5yo, I was vegan during the pregnancy. His growth

pattern is following that of his big brother's, which is fine, ,

and he's super-healthy when it comes to colds and stuff, but he is

behind developmentally. His small and large motor skills are great,

but he doesn't talk. He turns 2 in November and he still just

babbles. He *thinks* he's talking, and *I* know when he says things

like hi, byebye, kitty, outside, shoes, kiss, etc... but nobody else

would know. I'm really beginning to be worried about this. He

really hasn't made any progress in the last 6 months. I don't think

it's his hearing (although we had wondered) because he understands

*everything* we say when we talk to him, and recognizes subtle

differences in similar-sounding words.

 

Could the problem be a b-12 deficiency? I'm sporadic at best when

it comes to supplements, at least until the last few months, when I

became concerned enough to buckle down. I had just assumed that we

were getting plenty through fortified foods, but when I got to

looking at packaging, I realized that organic, minimally processed

foods don't really seem to be fortified with anything. Anyways, I'm

a little concerned to take him to the MD for a blood test, because

he's never been and I'm afraid they will think I'm negligent or

something (although I'd lie about being vegan in a heartbeat, I have

no qualms about that). I thought if I just started giving him

supplements of b12 it'd be okay, but it can take months to tell a

difference.

 

So now I'm second- and third-guessing myself, actually considering

giving him an egg a week or something, medicinally as a " supplement "

for those difficult to get nutrients like b12, vitD, and zinc. I

don't *want* to, and I'll probably get over the freak-out and feel

really stupid for even posting this. I'm just worried about the

possibility of deficiency causing permanent damage to my baby, which

is far worse in my mind than causing permanent damage to an egg.

I've always promised myself that I'd rethink how I do things if it

seemed that my children weren't thriving, because that's the most

important thing.

 

Please note that I'm not looking for an excuse to feed my kids

animal products. We've been an uber-vegan family for nearly 5 years

and can't imagine being otherwise. I'm also not looking for

condemnation. Just reassurance, advice, product recommendations,

and the like.

 

One more thing. I thought I'd mention that the children's diet is

as impeccable as a vegan diet can be. All organic, minimally-

processed, lots of whole grains, fruits, veggies, olive/flax oil,

raw almond butter, ww couscous and pastas, beans, beans and more

beans. A few months ago, I started giving thier multi-vites

religiously, along with b12, plus blackstrap molasses almost every

day.

 

Thanks,

Shayla Roberts

 

x-posted like a mutha

[Guest guest]

I can relate 100% to you and wrote our e-mail group a couple of years ago

regarding the same issues that you have.

 

My boys are 2 and almost 5. I've been a vegan for 13 years, haven't had

any dairy, eggs, or meat during that time, and therefore had vegan

pregnancies. Both my children have been total vegans since birth.

 

My oldest son had no problems with motor skills, but his speech development

at 2 was so delayed (he wasn't using 2-word sentences and I basically was

the only one that could understand the words he could say) that his

pediatrician wanted him to have therapy. I just knew that his delays not

only in speech, but in growth in terms of height (he has always been below

the 50th percentile although I have height on my side of the family, not on

daddy's side though) were due to his diet and worried about B-12, protein

and other deficiency issues.

 

By the time the county contacted me about getting free help for him about 1

month beyond his 2-year birthday, he immediately started using 5-word

sentences, with NO help!!! My son has not stopped talking since (be careful

what you ask for!). People are amazed at how well he speaks. He speaks

like an intelligent teenager with nearly perfect diction!!!! He is a

miracle. By the way, I breastfed this son for 2 years when I conceived my

2nd born and I had to force this son to drink soy milk. He will only drink

soy milk if it is in a soy shake. He loves rice milk. Also, this son has

fuzz above his lip and hair all over his arms and legs too (none on the

pubic area). Although his daddy is hairless (doesn't have to shave!), I'm

on the hairy side!

 

Now my 2-year old had the same issues as my older son, but also had delays

in motor development. Instead of crawling, he scooted everywhere on his

bottom. He couldn't roll over either. My pediatrician was very concerned

and wanted him to have therapy, but by the time it was set up, he started

walking when he was about 12 months. He started talking somewhat before he

reached 2 years old, and talks amazingly well for a 2.3 year old. He uses

long sentences and uses big words clearly and correctly such as " probably "

and " uncomfortable, " and phrases such as " I want to compare . . . " I

breastfed him for 2 years and he is a " soymilkaholic " - he can drink 2

quarts of soymilk and/or rice dream milk a day. He is in the 75th

percentile in terms of height and below the 50th percentile in weight but

looks " thick! " He has no upper lip fuzz and no hair on other body parts.

 

Bottom line - I don't think what you're observing has anything to do with

the vegan diet. I, from personal experience, believe it is the best diet.

I do give my children fortified soy/rice milks and a B-12 supplement, but

nothing else.

 

 

-

" wisheyemay " <happyvegan

 

Friday, September 02, 2005 3:00 PM

I'm not sure my children are thriving...

 

 

> Every so often, I begin to have grave doubts about keeping my

> children vegan while they are so young. I've heard people say

> that " there's plenty of time for them to be strict vegan later, when

> nutrition is not so crucial " and at times I think they may be right.

>

> My children are 5 and almost 2. When pregnant with my 5yo, I was

> not vegetarian, let alone vegan, but I became veg right after his

> birth, and vegan a few months later. He has been very advanced

> developmentally all of his life, although he is very small and

> thin. No worries, I think, because his father is only 5'5 " and I'm

> shorter than that. But I've been noticing that he's got hair on his

> legs and upper lip. Just " peach fuzz " on his lip, and no pubic hair

> in any other area, but are kids *supposed* to have peach fuzz at

> that age? I can't remember, and I don't know many other mothers to

> ask. Could this be something to do with hormones, like maybe from

> too much soy (which we really don't eat, just tofu)? Or from

> breastfeeding so long (3+ years)? Otherwise he is very healthy and

> strong, despite looking small and somewhat weak.

>

> Now, with my 1.5yo, I was vegan during the pregnancy. His growth

> pattern is following that of his big brother's, which is fine, ,

> and he's super-healthy when it comes to colds and stuff, but he is

> behind developmentally. His small and large motor skills are great,

> but he doesn't talk. He turns 2 in November and he still just

> babbles. He *thinks* he's talking, and *I* know when he says things

> like hi, byebye, kitty, outside, shoes, kiss, etc... but nobody else

> would know. I'm really beginning to be worried about this. He

> really hasn't made any progress in the last 6 months. I don't think

> it's his hearing (although we had wondered) because he understands

> *everything* we say when we talk to him, and recognizes subtle

> differences in similar-sounding words.

>

> Could the problem be a b-12 deficiency? I'm sporadic at best when

> it comes to supplements, at least until the last few months, when I

> became concerned enough to buckle down. I had just assumed that we

> were getting plenty through fortified foods, but when I got to

> looking at packaging, I realized that organic, minimally processed

> foods don't really seem to be fortified with anything. Anyways, I'm

> a little concerned to take him to the MD for a blood test, because

> he's never been and I'm afraid they will think I'm negligent or

> something (although I'd lie about being vegan in a heartbeat, I have

> no qualms about that). I thought if I just started giving him

> supplements of b12 it'd be okay, but it can take months to tell a

> difference.

>

> So now I'm second- and third-guessing myself, actually considering

> giving him an egg a week or something, medicinally as a " supplement "

> for those difficult to get nutrients like b12, vitD, and zinc. I

> don't *want* to, and I'll probably get over the freak-out and feel

> really stupid for even posting this. I'm just worried about the

> possibility of deficiency causing permanent damage to my baby, which

> is far worse in my mind than causing permanent damage to an egg.

> I've always promised myself that I'd rethink how I do things if it

> seemed that my children weren't thriving, because that's the most

> important thing.

>

> Please note that I'm not looking for an excuse to feed my kids

> animal products. We've been an uber-vegan family for nearly 5 years

> and can't imagine being otherwise. I'm also not looking for

> condemnation. Just reassurance, advice, product recommendations,

> and the like.

>

> One more thing. I thought I'd mention that the children's diet is

> as impeccable as a vegan diet can be. All organic, minimally-

> processed, lots of whole grains, fruits, veggies, olive/flax oil,

> raw almond butter, ww couscous and pastas, beans, beans and more

> beans. A few months ago, I started giving thier multi-vites

> religiously, along with b12, plus blackstrap molasses almost every

> day.

>

> Thanks,

> Shayla Roberts

>

> x-posted like a mutha

>

>

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

>

> edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Shayla,

I totally understand your concerns, but I want to encourage you to keep your

kids vegan. I especially understand your concerns because I have a special

needs son, who was born with cerebral palsy because of a tear in his

placenta. I have a 4 1/2 yr old daughter who is healthy, and my son is 2

1/2. He is very small, which is typical of kids with CP, even though we

currently have him consuming 1600 calories a day. About a year ago, I

contacted Reed Mangels, RD, who is a dietitician associated with the

Vegetarian Resource Group. I, like you, was starting to wonder if I should

be feeding him omelettes or other non vegan foods. Our family had been vegan

for years and years, and my daughter understands why we are vegan, so I was

wrestling with the idea of trying to " sneak " non vegan foods into my son's

diet. After talking to Dr.Mangels, I was very reassured that a vegan diet

could more than meet his needs. I wanted to address some of your concerns.

 

It is specifically because nutrition is so important at this young age that

I think a vegan diet can be so helpful.

 

First, their size. Your husband and you are small people. I would not waste

one more minute worrying about your kids' sizes. As long as they are

maintaining some version of a healthy growth rate/curve, it is alright if

they are small, given how small you are.

 

Your older son's hair growth. This has so much to do with genetics. Extended

breastfeeding will not cause excessive hormone exposure. Breastmilk from a

cow can do exactly that, but your breastmilk will not. I began to grow

underarm hair by age 4 and my mom was super freaked out and took me to the

doc. I was raised on a typical meat/dairy american diet. The doc said it was

genetics and not to worry about it. There is a lot of justified concern that

early puberty may be happening in this country because of exposure to the

hormones/drugs in meat and dairy products, as well as other environmental

contamination, but not because of moderate soy consumption. If you were

feeding your kids soy products at the majority of their meals, I would

advise you to cut back, but from the sound of your email, that is not the

case. In our family, my kids have soymilk every morning with their cereal,

and then several servings of soy a week in addition, in the form mostly of

tofu, say for maybe 2 dinners per week, and other soy products maybe 3 times

per week for lunch or dinner. We include A LOT of other beans, like lentils

and chickpeas because they are very valuable nutritionally as well. It

sounds like you do not even rely this heavily on soy, so I don't think you

have anything to worry about there. You will see all sorts of patterns of

hair growth in a variety of kids, and it is their ethnicity and genetics

that has the most to do with it.

 

It is so understandable that you would be worried about his speech, but

again, kids vary in their speech acquisition for a variety of reason. When

you go in for his well child visit, by all means, bring it up with your

pediatrician if you're concerned about it, but don't couch it in terms of

your diet. Since having my daughter, I have met at least a dozen families

with children (almost all boys) who were speech-delayed by age 2. Some of

them qualified for speech therapy, some were not that delayed. NONE of them

are vegan or even vegetarian. With therapy, all these kids began speaking

completely normally with time. A dear friend of mine from medical school,

who is a brilliant vegan doctor now, only spoke in any intelligible way

after age 3. He also was raised on a typical meat/dairy american diet.

 

I do think it is important to bring up any concerns you have about your kids

with their doctor, but do not discuss it in terms of their diets. Depending

on how knowledgeable your doc is about nutrition (and I can tell you

first-hand that doctors usually get next to NO education in nutrition in

medical school) s/he may or may not be supportive of your veganism. I am

lucky in that my pediatrician acknowledges that I know more about nutrition

than he does and he does not feel our veganism is a detriment. Similarly,

because of my son's special needs, he does see a nutritionist who

specializes in treating kids with medical issues like his. I was lucky that

she also is not judgemental or ignorant about vegan diets. I was well-armed

before I met her though, just in case. Have a copy of the ADA's position

paper on veg diets for kids on hand. Also, Reed Mangels offered to speak to

any dietician involved in my son's care and help them modify suggestions

they had for him to fit a vegan diet. Fortunately, that has not even been

necessary thus far.

 

The only potential problems I see with what you're doing is if you're not

feeding your kids fortified foods often, and were not giving them a

multivitamin either, they could be running low on certain nutrients,

including zinc, b12, vit D, and calcium. (You said you are now regularly

using a multi now, so that's good - keep it up.) NOTE: an egg every week or

even every day will not help this. Eggs are not a good source of most

nutrients, esp those that might be low on a vegan diet. If you are going to

give a supplement, use a supplement. There are many great vegan vitamins on

the market. For my son, I give him a liquid multi several times a week, less

in the summer. My daughter eats chewable vitamins I get from

veganessentials.com or pangea, I can't remember right now. There are several

varieties available. I also give her a chewable b12 once a week, and a

calcium chew candy every now and then. They drink calcium fortified soymilk

and orange juice daily, and do eat fortified cereals and bread. I try to

keep the produce in the house as organic as possible, but many of our

package foods are not organic, and like you said, many of the organic ones

are not as well fortified. So I would advise you to maybe increase some of

the fortified foods, and definitely include more regular vitamin use.

 

I would like to stress that this is good advice to give ANYONE with kids,

not just vegans, because as you might have experienced, sometimes kids are

terrible eaters. My daughter was a great eater until about 6 months ago, and

now she's very picky. A multivitamin and fortified foods is just good

insurance against the weird I'm-only-going-to-eat-white-things-for-a-month

ideas that young kids get, whether they are meateaters or not.

 

I TOTALLY understand you second-guessing yourself, and with my son I was

desperate to make sure I wasn't failing him somehow. Because he doesn't

thrive as a definition of his other medical issues, how would I know if his

diet was also lacking somehow? That was where consulting a vegan dietitician

helped so much. You can analyze their diets yourself too if you'd like, and

a great resource is Becoming Vegan, by Davis and Melina. It has great

chapters on nutrition for vegan babies, toddlers and kids. And there are

good web resources as well. Brenda Davis and Reed Mangels are 2 of the

dietitician's whose writings I've consulted often in the past.

 

Please feel free to contact me offlist or on for any specific

recommendations or for more questions. I hope this was helpful (and not too

obscenely long!).

Leena

[Guest guest]

First let me say that you shouldn't feel stupid for posting this. I

think most of us have the same worries. Meat eating/feeding parents,

as well.

 

First, relax about the talking thing! He's young and you can't

compare his development to his brother's, although it's really

impossible not to! My best friend's 2+ year old (meat eater) just

started really saying words at around 2 and is now working on

sentences. My veggie kids both talked much earlier. They were also

much more active and coordinated. Granted, they were not vegan at the

time. They ate some cheese but never drank milk or ate eggs. Now

they are vegan (by choice) It's good that your son babbles. It means

he's trying and working on language. It's too early to worry, in my

opinion. If he's not making progress by 2.5 (or some other milestone

-- ask your ped.) then he might need extra work. Sometimes the 2nd

child talks later because the older one is doing the talking!

 

Now, about size. My son (now 14) was always really small and thin

looking, but healthy and very active and athletic. He is really

starting to grow now (6 inches last year!) and I think looks like a

typical kid of his age, without the pudge that lots of kids are

getting earlier and earlier. Anyway, I had many doubts when he was

little, but I figured he wouldn't drink milk or eat meat and eggsif

he had the opportunity anyway! He's very picky!

 

I don't blame you for considering eggs. I have done the same thing. I

feel that we eat way too much soy. My family loves all the faux meat

stuff. If I had chickens or there were some next-door, I'd probably

try to include them in some way. But I don't know of a way to get

cruelty-free eggs, so forget it!

 

My advice is to keep doing what you are doing. Make sure they

continue to get B-12. Pacific Ultra-Soy is fortified with it and

calcium and other things. That's what we use. Also throw in nutri-

yeast when you can. It sounds like you have a good diet.

 

Take care and good luck!

 

Tracy

 

On Sep 2, 2005, at 12:00 PM, wisheyemay wrote:

 

> Every so often, I begin to have grave doubts about keeping my

> children vegan while they are so young. I've heard people say

> that " there's plenty of time for them to be strict vegan later, when

> nutrition is not so crucial " and at times I think they may be right.

>

> My children are 5 and almost 2. When pregnant with my 5yo, I was

> not vegetarian, let alone vegan, but I became veg right after his

> birth, and vegan a few months later. He has been very advanced

> developmentally all of his life, although he is very small and

> thin. No worries, I think, because his father is only 5'5 " and I'm

> shorter than that. But I've been noticing that he's got hair on his

> legs and upper lip. Just " peach fuzz " on his lip, and no pubic hair

> in any other area, but are kids *supposed* to have peach fuzz at

> that age? I can't remember, and I don't know many other mothers to

> ask. Could this be something to do with hormones, like maybe from

> too much soy (which we really don't eat, just tofu)? Or from

> breastfeeding so long (3+ years)? Otherwise he is very healthy and

> strong, despite looking small and somewhat weak.

>

> Now, with my 1.5yo, I was vegan during the pregnancy. His growth

> pattern is following that of his big brother's, which is fine, ,

> and he's super-healthy when it comes to colds and stuff, but he is

> behind developmentally. His small and large motor skills are great,

> but he doesn't talk. He turns 2 in November and he still just

> babbles. He *thinks* he's talking, and *I* know when he says things

> like hi, byebye, kitty, outside, shoes, kiss, etc... but nobody else

> would know. I'm really beginning to be worried about this. He

> really hasn't made any progress in the last 6 months. I don't think

> it's his hearing (although we had wondered) because he understands

> *everything* we say when we talk to him, and recognizes subtle

> differences in similar-sounding words.

>

> Could the problem be a b-12 deficiency? I'm sporadic at best when

> it comes to supplements, at least until the last few months, when I

> became concerned enough to buckle down. I had just assumed that we

> were getting plenty through fortified foods, but when I got to

> looking at packaging, I realized that organic, minimally processed

> foods don't really seem to be fortified with anything. Anyways, I'm

> a little concerned to take him to the MD for a blood test, because

> he's never been and I'm afraid they will think I'm negligent or

> something (although I'd lie about being vegan in a heartbeat, I have

> no qualms about that). I thought if I just started giving him

> supplements of b12 it'd be okay, but it can take months to tell a

> difference.

>

> So now I'm second- and third-guessing myself, actually considering

> giving him an egg a week or something, medicinally as a " supplement "

> for those difficult to get nutrients like b12, vitD, and zinc. I

> don't *want* to, and I'll probably get over the freak-out and feel

> really stupid for even posting this. I'm just worried about the

> possibility of deficiency causing permanent damage to my baby, which

> is far worse in my mind than causing permanent damage to an egg.

> I've always promised myself that I'd rethink how I do things if it

> seemed that my children weren't thriving, because that's the most

> important thing.

>

> Please note that I'm not looking for an excuse to feed my kids

> animal products. We've been an uber-vegan family for nearly 5 years

> and can't imagine being otherwise. I'm also not looking for

> condemnation. Just reassurance, advice, product recommendations,

> and the like.

>

> One more thing. I thought I'd mention that the children's diet is

> as impeccable as a vegan diet can be. All organic, minimally-

> processed, lots of whole grains, fruits, veggies, olive/flax oil,

> raw almond butter, ww couscous and pastas, beans, beans and more

> beans. A few months ago, I started giving thier multi-vites

> religiously, along with b12, plus blackstrap molasses almost every

> day.

>

> Thanks,

> Shayla Roberts

>

> x-posted like a mutha

>

 

[Guest guest]

Wow, this was incredibly reassuring!

 

We've also had nothing but faith in a vegan diet until I started

worrying about this speech issue. And then I kind of freaked out.

After receiving so many responses, I feel that everyone is correct in

that it's not so much to do with diet and more to do with his own

personal rate of development, especially considering he is a boy and a

second child. Having his big brother talk " baby talk " back to him

isn't reinforcing proper pronunciation.

 

Thanks for replying.

Shayla

 

, " admartin " <admartin@e...> wrote:

> I can relate 100% to you and wrote our e-mail group a couple of

years ago

> regarding the same issues that you have.

[Guest guest]

Leena,

 

This response made my day! My 13yo nephew has CP, due to being born

premature. He is mostly veg, due to not being able to digest meats

well. Unfortunately, my SIL makes no effort with diet whatsoever,

so he lives mostly on pediasure. Some days he gets nothing but. I

and her child's doctor have been on her for years to get some living

food into him, but unfortunately she is inherently lazy when it

comes to preparing food for her family, let alone special meals for

her son. It is so inspiring to hear that you work so hard to ensure

his health by taking such care with his diet. You are amazing!

 

I appreciate you addressing my concerns. While I put forth a lot of

effort with meals, I get lazy with supplements sometimes. They have

always had supplements sporadically, but I've been doing very good

the couple of months. Keeping the vitamins in the kitchen helps a

lot. Freaking out helped get me in gear, as well. I hated the idea

of feeding my children animal products, and I'm glad I've had so

many reassuring responses and found some online resources to remind

me why we are raising our children in the first place. I was also

not looking forward to " sneaking " egg or something into the

children's food. My 5yo is very sensitive and would be traumatised

if he ever found out. I promised him a long time ago that he would

never have to worry about anything I ever gave him, because I would

never try to feed him animals. He trusts me, and I can't imagine

breaking that trust.

 

We definitely keep soy consumption in moderation. Tofu 1-3 times a

week, Soy Delicious ice cream, and tofu sour cream, and soymilk for

baking and my husband's chocolate milk. My children *won't* drink

soy milk, but I've been occasionally making a rice " formula " for my

youngest to have a cup of every other day or so (he's breastfeeding

so much still that he doesn't need more than that). I mix rice milk

with a little rice protein powder, and a little bit of powdered All-

One vegan multivitamin. He really likes it, and I feel better about

giving that than soymilk.

 

I found a pediatrician in my area that I've heard good things

about. My kids have never been to one before, so I'm not really

sure what to expect. My husband does *not* want me to tell her that

we are vegan, and certainly not in relation to any concerns we

have. He thinks that the word " vegan " has too many negative

connotations what with the way it's portrayed in the media. I'm

thinking I'll just say " vegetarian " and then feel her out on dairy

and eggs. People think I'm being paranoid, but I've heard horror

stories about doctors jumping to conclusions. Hopefully my worries

will be in vain and she'll be supportive and knowledgable.

 

Several people have recc'd Becoming Vegan, and it's in my shopping

cart at Amazon.com now, so hopefully I'll have it in time for the

kids' checkup. It's a good idea to have a copy of the AAP's

position of vegan diets, like you mentioned. So much good advice!

 

Thanks,

Shayla Roberts

 

, " leena " <leena@r...> wrote:

> Shayla,

> I totally understand your concerns, but I want to encourage you to

keep your

> kids vegan. I especially understand your concerns because I have a

special

> needs son, who was born with cerebral palsy because of a tear in >

[Guest guest]

Chessie! I'm so glad you responded. I remember you from another

list, and if I recall correctly, you're in Oklahoma as well. Tell me,

have you ever found a veg-friendly doctor? I got a couple of recs

from the Veg-OK list, but I know you're pretty close by. I was hoping

you knew of somebody. We're going to try out Gwen Fuentes, a

pediatrician in Ardmore, unless I find somebody else before their

appointment.

 

I don't really want to have the kids' blood drawn. I'm really hoping

to avoid it. Even the lead test, because if the kids don't have low

iron levels (tested with a fingerstick) then lead probably isn't an

issue. I'm just afraid that they will have low iron levels (no

indication of anemia, but you never know) and the doctor will assume

it's diet-related. Then I'll have to get a blood test to make sure

anemia isn't from lead exposure. I just hate putting the kids through

all the needles.

 

Thanks, and hope to hear from you about the doctor.

Shayla

[Guest guest]

Tracy,

 

I love hearing the stories of kids who don't talk much until such-

and-such age, and then BAM! talk in complete sentances. It makes me

feel a lot better. I was so worried because I tend to compare him

with his older brother, who was very advanced.

 

I'm lucky in that none of my family likes fake meats much, besides

soy hot dogs which they only get once a week (tofu's another

story...they all LOVE it). I figured it's because the kids have

never had meat, and so the taste/texture is foreign to them.

Although, I've heard of kids who were vegan from birth who love soy

meats, so who knows!

 

It would have been all too easy to get cruelty-free eggs, since my

in-laws keep chickens (who have the run of 40 acres) and live only

10 minutes a day. I don't think I could've actually done it,

though, because my husband and I both hate the smell, and my 5yo

would have been traumatized if he'd have seen them in our house.

 

Thanks for your reply. Everyone has been very helpful, and I feel

much better about our decision. I had a momentary lapse of faith,

but I think I'm over it now.

 

Shayla

 

 

, Tracy Childs <tracychilds@c...>

wrote:

> First let me say that you shouldn't feel stupid for posting this.

I

> think most of us have the same worries. Meat eating/feeding

parents,

> as well.

[Guest guest]

I agree that the vegan diet is restrictive. It was my mother's main

concern, even more than nutrition, and that surprised me. Luckily,

my 5yo doesn't seem to mind. It's as easy to him as " I'm a vegan, I

only eat vegan food. " Just like dogs eat dog food, birds eat bird

food, etc... That's how we explained it to him. Therefore, he

doesn't feel he's being deprived of something, since it is

not " edible " for him, anyways. Now, when he's older, it might be

more of an issue, and I'm definitely not looking forward to

that. For now, though, it's okay.

 

B12 was/is my main concern. Like you mentioned, the damage caused

by deficiency is permanent, and that's what freaked me out. They've

had sporadic supplementation, and the first was breastfed until 3

and the 20mo is still nursing, so they had whatever supplementation

I had, besides their own. I ate more processed and fortified foods,

too, so I'm hoping that between it all, it was enough. I'm going to

have them checked next week, although besides speech in my 20mo,

there is no sign of delays of any kind. In the meantime, and in the

future, I'll be very diligent about the B12 supplements. I think

this little freak-out of mine has really forced me to get it in

gear.

 

Thanks for the pep talk!

 

Shayla

 

 

 

 

, TheNutritionNut

<thenutritionnut> wrote:

> Shayla,

>

> Your concerns are normal. Personally I think young children

shouldn't follow a vegan diet, it's just to restrictive. Not only

for them developmentally, but also it restricts them from birthday

parties, etc. As you shared, you have doubts and you are not making

sure that they get enough B12 on a regular basis. ]

[Guest guest]

I am late in this but I also have a *slow* talker. My daughter was behind

all the charts but has never been a practicer and her first try at anything

is usually perfect (for walking she waited until 18 months and her first

steps were up a hill when we were outside and she hasn't stopped since that

day). Everytime I start getting worried that she isn't talking at a level I

think she should be, within days she seems to go through a spurt and be at

that level...

 

 

tara

-

" wisheyemay " <happyvegan

 

Monday, September 05, 2005 3:44 PM

Re: I'm not sure my children are thriving...

 

 

> Wow, this was incredibly reassuring!

>

> We've also had nothing but faith in a vegan diet until I started

> worrying about this speech issue. And then I kind of freaked out.

> After receiving so many responses, I feel that everyone is correct in

> that it's not so much to do with diet and more to do with his own

> personal rate of development, especially considering he is a boy and a

> second child. Having his big brother talk " baby talk " back to him

> isn't reinforcing proper pronunciation.

>

> Thanks for replying.

> Shayla

>

 

--

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[Guest guest]

Shayla,

 

 

 

Yup, we are just up the road in Sulphur. We did try Dr. Fuentes and

REALLY did not like her. We took our 1st child to her when she was

about 4 months old b/c she had a lot of congestion and was having

trouble breathing. Dr. Fuentes immediately diagnosed asthma and

prescribed a steroid treatment which we refused. Our purpose in going

was to try to determine what was causing the congestion, and she

literally just wouldn't even listen to us. Plus she kept referring to

our daughter as " it " and that just pissed us off immediately.

 

 

 

Personally, for just family med, I go to Melinda Cail at Integris

ProHealth in Norman. She has always been respectful and seems to be

understanding of my lifestyle - but I have only been to her for a couple

minor things. I have not yet switched pediatricians, but I will

probably try the guy at Mercy who was recommended on the list. Our baby

boy is going to need two operations at about 6 and 12 months, and I want

to be sure I am doing everything I can to support his immune system in

the meantime.

 

 

 

I know what you mean about the needles. We do some vax, but I just hate

the whole process and don't care much for doctors in general. Our son's

first procedure will probably be in November/December and I am already

stressed out about it! Good luck - let me know how it goes.

 

 

 

Chessie

 

 

 

 

On

Behalf Of wisheyemay

Monday, September 05, 2005 3:31 PM

 

Re: I'm not sure my children are thriving...

 

 

 

Chessie! I'm so glad you responded. I remember you from another

list, and if I recall correctly, you're in Oklahoma as well. Tell me,

have you ever found a veg-friendly doctor? I got a couple of recs

from the Veg-OK list, but I know you're pretty close by. I was hoping

you knew of somebody. We're going to try out Gwen Fuentes, a

pediatrician in Ardmore, unless I find somebody else before their

appointment.

 

I don't really want to have the kids' blood drawn. I'm really hoping

to avoid it. Even the lead test, because if the kids don't have low

iron levels (tested with a fingerstick) then lead probably isn't an

issue. I'm just afraid that they will have low iron levels (no

indication of anemia, but you never know) and the doctor will assume

it's diet-related. Then I'll have to get a blood test to make sure

anemia isn't from lead exposure. I just hate putting the kids through

all the needles.

 

Thanks, and hope to hear from you about the doctor.

Shayla

 

 

 

 

 

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website

at http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families

go to http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not

intended to provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be

obtained from a qualified health professional.

 

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

My friend's 19 month old is still not walking yet.

She goes to physical therapy now. I had never heard

of a child walking later than 15 months before this

little girl.

Renee

 

--- tara <tara wrote:

 

> I am late in this but I also have a *slow* talker.

> My daughter was behind

> all the charts but has never been a practicer and

> her first try at anything

> is usually perfect (for walking she waited until 18

> months and her first

> steps were up a hill when we were outside and she

> hasn't stopped since that

> day). Everytime I start getting worried that she

> isn't talking at a level I

> think she should be, within days she seems to go

> through a spurt and be at

> that level...

>

>

> tara

 

 

 

 

 

____

Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

http://store./redcross-donate3/

[Guest guest]

I have wondered the same thing about all of my kids at one point and time.

We are all vegetarian in my house, we all eat the same thing, but our kids

can't be more different. My oldest had a speech delay. We did see a speech

therapist, to at least get peace of mind, and were told kids usually are

either physical or vebal to begin with. She walked at 9 months and really

was an active baby. The ST also said since we could usually understand her

without her having to say more than a word or two, she didn't really see a

need to make sentences yet. She's 9 now and doing fine. Our second girl was

pretty small at birth but then ... bam! grew to be a tall 4 year old. She

didn't walk when the book should she should, but she didn't have to do as

much with a mom, dad and 5 year old sister to fetch and reach. Our son

walked and talked even later. Could it be because his 2 older sisters loved

(still do) to dote on him? They all have seperate eating habits and likes

and dislikes. Jack is our " Feast or famine " guy. I worry about his diet the

most because i've not had the experience with it. Both my girls (and my

husband) eat almost anything I put in front of them. I feel lucky that my

oldest 2 didn't have many eating problems, because now that I see how

healthy they are it gives me confidence that I'm doing the right thing.

Somedays it seems all I've learned is that each kid is different, and you

never know what to expect

 

Good Luck, and go with your instincts!

 

Jodi

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I have to say that Jodi's situation is so like mine! My 4 1/2 year old daughter

freaked us out by walking at 9 months and then having a speach delay at 3 1/2

that sent me rushing to a speech therapist only to find out she was just

fine...and speaking perfectly now. My husband wasn't raised a vegetarian so he

relies on my completely to make sure we are all getting what we need in our

diets. My 2 1/2 year old is the feat or famine one. I worry she's not getting

enough of anything because she seems to only eat one big meal a day and then

barely snack here and there. She was around her grandma more than my first and

got a taste for junk food and sugar so of course I argue that her taste buds

have been led astray. I rely on the daily multi-vitamin and the daily drinks I

give them to supplement for any missing things.

 

Daily: Yummi Bears Vegetarian Multi-Vitamin & Mineral

Spiru-Tein Junior Strawberry Shake (blended with apple or orange juice)

Jarrow Formulas Green Defense

 

I make a single serving of each of the drinks and they split it (since they're

younger)

 

Also, during cold and flu season, I give them each a packet of Emergen-C Kids in

a 1/2 cup of orange juice with breakfast. It seems to be working great since

they have missed out on all the icky stuff that's gone around each season. The

extra c-boost really works wonders for their systems.

 

Best of luck!

 

 

 

 

 

Jodi <me4u wrote:

I have wondered the same thing about all of my kids at one point and time.

We are all vegetarian in my house, we all eat the same thing, but our kids

can't be more different. My oldest had a speech delay. We did see a speech

therapist, to at least get peace of mind, and were told kids usually are

either physical or vebal to begin with. She walked at 9 months and really

was an active baby. The ST also said since we could usually understand her

without her having to say more than a word or two, she didn't really see a

need to make sentences yet. She's 9 now and doing fine. Our second girl was

pretty small at birth but then ... bam! grew to be a tall 4 year old. She

didn't walk when the book should she should, but she didn't have to do as

much with a mom, dad and 5 year old sister to fetch and reach. Our son

walked and talked even later. Could it be because his 2 older sisters loved

(still do) to dote on him? They all have seperate eating habits and likes

and dislikes. Jack is our " Feast or famine " guy. I worry about his diet the

most because i've not had the experience with it. Both my girls (and my

husband) eat almost anything I put in front of them. I feel lucky that my

oldest 2 didn't have many eating problems, because now that I see how

healthy they are it gives me confidence that I'm doing the right thing.

Somedays it seems all I've learned is that each kid is different, and you

never know what to expect

 

Good Luck, and go with your instincts!

 

Jodi

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I try really hard to keep telling myself that young children will get what they

need - at least that's what my pediatrician keeps saying. Anyway, I have a

4-year-old that goes through phases where all she wants to eat is toast. She

would eat it for every meal if I let her for several weeks. I try to put

blueberry preserves on to make it somewhat healthier, but I still worry. She

seems to still be growing, though and is healthy. I may have to try the vitamin

C boost, though. We get a few more colds in this house than I would like.

 

Calla

-

Faith

Tuesday, September 13, 2005 11:56 AM

RE: I'm not sure my children are thriving...

 

 

I have to say that Jodi's situation is so like mine! My 4 1/2 year old

daughter freaked us out by walking at 9 months and then having a speach delay at

3 1/2 that sent me rushing to a speech therapist only to find out she was just

fine...and speaking perfectly now. My husband wasn't raised a vegetarian so he

relies on my completely to make sure we are all getting what we need in our

diets. My 2 1/2 year old is the feat or famine one. I worry she's not getting

enough of anything because she seems to only eat one big meal a day and then

barely snack here and there. She was around her grandma more than my first and

got a taste for junk food and sugar so of course I argue that her taste buds

have been led astray. I rely on the daily multi-vitamin and the daily drinks I

give them to supplement for any missing things.

 

Daily: Yummi Bears Vegetarian Multi-Vitamin & Mineral

Spiru-Tein Junior Strawberry Shake (blended with apple or orange

juice)

Jarrow Formulas Green Defense

 

I make a single serving of each of the drinks and they split it (since they're

younger)

 

Also, during cold and flu season, I give them each a packet of Emergen-C Kids

in a 1/2 cup of orange juice with breakfast. It seems to be working great since

they have missed out on all the icky stuff that's gone around each season. The

extra c-boost really works wonders for their systems.

 

Best of luck!

 

 

 

 

 

Jodi <me4u wrote:

I have wondered the same thing about all of my kids at one point and time.

We are all vegetarian in my house, we all eat the same thing, but our kids

can't be more different. My oldest had a speech delay. We did see a speech

therapist, to at least get peace of mind, and were told kids usually are

either physical or vebal to begin with. She walked at 9 months and really

was an active baby. The ST also said since we could usually understand her

without her having to say more than a word or two, she didn't really see a

need to make sentences yet. She's 9 now and doing fine. Our second girl was

pretty small at birth but then ... bam! grew to be a tall 4 year old. She

didn't walk when the book should she should, but she didn't have to do as

much with a mom, dad and 5 year old sister to fetch and reach. Our son

walked and talked even later. Could it be because his 2 older sisters loved

(still do) to dote on him? They all have seperate eating habits and likes

and dislikes. Jack is our " Feast or famine " guy. I worry about his diet the

most because i've not had the experience with it. Both my girls (and my

husband) eat almost anything I put in front of them. I feel lucky that my

oldest 2 didn't have many eating problems, because now that I see how

healthy they are it gives me confidence that I'm doing the right thing.

Somedays it seems all I've learned is that each kid is different, and you

never know what to expect

 

Good Luck, and go with your instincts!

 

Jodi