teaching our children to keep their values / dealing with people who have nerve

[Guest guest]

Hi Shelly and everyone,

 

The best defense is educating our children. When they're away from us, they

will have to know how to think and feel for themselves, how to act and speak

about their vegetarianism (or any other moral value).

 

When my girls were infants, as we'd pass by the meat/fish section of the grocery

store, I'd make a sympathetic, sad and compassionate face, point to the packaged

item, and say, " Do you know what that is? It's part of a chicken (or lamb, cow,

calf, turkey, rabbit, zebra, pig, etc. etc.)....that chicken didn't want us to

eat it! It wanted to walk around and be with its family! "

 

When my children got old enough to speak, we were walking past these counters,

and suddenly they'd have a sympathetic, sad and compassionate expression on

their faces, and say, " Mommy, look! We don't want to eat that! We don't eat

animals! That animal didn't want us to eat it! " They were maybe one and a half,

or two years old. I was amazed. They remembered all the different times we had

talked about why we don't eat animals.

 

When adults razz me, or just ask nicely about why we're vegetarian, I answer

them, but in different ways. If they're polite, I explain how in my friend's

anatomy class I saw that we look like chicken under the skin, that our fat is

like chicken fat, and that I didn't want to go back to meat-eating after the

class.

 

If someone is not polite, I'll ask them, " Would you eat dogs, or cats? Why not?

They're commonly eaten in the Far East. How about elephant feet? Chocolate

covered ants? Lizards? Grasshoppers?

 

" How about horses, or zebras? They eat horses in France, and zebras in Africa.

Why wouldn't you? Here, many Americans don't eat horses, but they eat cows. In

India, cows are sacred animals, never to be eaten.

 

" In Hong Kong, a very expensive delicacy is live monkey brains. Saw off the top

of a live monkey's skull, and enjoy. Very 'healthy'. Why wouldn't you eat

that??? Why are some animals okay to eat, and others not? We in my family

feel the same way about all animals, that we don't want to eat them. We are

ethical vegetarians. "

 

When there is time, we also discuss the humanitarian, health and economic sides

of vegetarianism.

 

By the time we go through this discussion, most people then at least respect my

point of view. I think my daughters seeing me speak up has helped them be firm

in their own convictions, and feel comfortable with their choices, when younger,

till now, at ages 14 and 9.

 

Successful traditions start teaching children their culture's values from birth.

This is a time in our society when we at home need to be strong teachers and

role models of our values, such as vegetarianism, not smoking or drinking, or

any other value we want our children to honor and respect. Education is the best

tool children can have.

 

Congratulations for becoming new vegetarians!

 

Warm wishes,

 

Sage

 

 

 

 

Shelly <joychild72 wrote:

I am writing this post because i wanted to talk about something that

happened here tonight to other parents who may understand. My

daughter's father was here tonight. He brought bacon for himself to

cook. I asked him to please not cook that in the house and in front

of the kids. (We are new vegetarians going on a few months now and

bacon smell is their weakness.) He cooks it anyway, against my

wishes. Then our 2 1/2 yr old asked him for some and he lovingly

leans down and gives her some bacon with a " here you go honey. " All

the while having this snide and irritated look for me. He gave her

dead pig!!! I cannot believe that he did that! He made a huge scene.

My middle daughter and I were arguing with him about taking innocent

life needlessly and he just yelled louder, right in the middle of

the kids! He has not been an authority in our daughter's life as he

has been in and out of it, now he wants to have a say?! He says she

does not have to be a vegetarian if she does not want to, that I am

making choices for her. Is giving her meat not also making a choice

for her? If I would have known then what i know now, I would have

never started any of my kids on meat. He is not even raising her, in

fact he is about to go back home, which is 2 days away from here. e

is not even the one raising her, grrrr. What do you all think?

~Shelly

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

 

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I love your response. I'll have to remember the monkey brains. I already use

the dog and cat thing. When we pass the meat section in the grocery store my

kids call it the animal grave yard.

Carol

 

" turquoiseshores " <turquoiseshores wrote:

Hi Shelly and everyone,

 

The best defense is educating our children. When they're away from us, they

will have to know how to think and feel for themselves, how to act and speak

about their vegetarianism (or any other moral value).

 

When my girls were infants, as we'd pass by the meat/fish section of the grocery

store, I'd make a sympathetic, sad and compassionate face, point to the packaged

item, and say, " Do you know what that is? It's part of a chicken (or lamb, cow,

calf, turkey, rabbit, zebra, pig, etc. etc.)....that chicken didn't want us to

eat it! It wanted to walk around and be with its family! "

 

When my children got old enough to speak, we were walking past these counters,

and suddenly they'd have a sympathetic, sad and compassionate expression on

their faces, and say, " Mommy, look! We don't want to eat that! We don't eat

animals! That animal didn't want us to eat it! " They were maybe one and a half,

or two years old. I was amazed. They remembered all the different times we had

talked about why we don't eat animals.

 

When adults razz me, or just ask nicely about why we're vegetarian, I answer

them, but in different ways. If they're polite, I explain how in my friend's

anatomy class I saw that we look like chicken under the skin, that our fat is

like chicken fat, and that I didn't want to go back to meat-eating after the

class.

 

If someone is not polite, I'll ask them, " Would you eat dogs, or cats? Why not?

They're commonly eaten in the Far East. How about elephant feet? Chocolate

covered ants? Lizards? Grasshoppers?

 

" How about horses, or zebras? They eat horses in France, and zebras in Africa.

Why wouldn't you? Here, many Americans don't eat horses, but they eat cows. In

India, cows are sacred animals, never to be eaten.

 

" In Hong Kong, a very expensive delicacy is live monkey brains. Saw off the top

of a live monkey's skull, and enjoy. Very 'healthy'. Why wouldn't you eat

that??? Why are some animals okay to eat, and others not? We in my family

feel the same way about all animals, that we don't want to eat them. We are

ethical vegetarians. "

 

When there is time, we also discuss the humanitarian, health and economic sides

of vegetarianism.

 

By the time we go through this discussion, most people then at least respect my

point of view. I think my daughters seeing me speak up has helped them be firm

in their own convictions, and feel comfortable with their choices, when younger,

till now, at ages 14 and 9.

 

Successful traditions start teaching children their culture's values from birth.

This is a time in our society when we at home need to be strong teachers and

role models of our values, such as vegetarianism, not smoking or drinking, or

any other value we want our children to honor and respect. Education is the best

tool children can have.

 

Congratulations for becoming new vegetarians!

 

Warm wishes,

 

Sage

 

 

 

 

Shelly <joychild72 wrote:

I am writing this post because i wanted to talk about something that

happened here tonight to other parents who may understand. My

daughter's father was here tonight. He brought bacon for himself to

cook. I asked him to please not cook that in the house and in front

of the kids. (We are new vegetarians going on a few months now and

bacon smell is their weakness.) He cooks it anyway, against my

wishes. Then our 2 1/2 yr old asked him for some and he lovingly

leans down and gives her some bacon with a " here you go honey. " All

the while having this snide and irritated look for me. He gave her

dead pig!!! I cannot believe that he did that! He made a huge scene.

My middle daughter and I were arguing with him about taking innocent

life needlessly and he just yelled louder, right in the middle of

the kids! He has not been an authority in our daughter's life as he

has been in and out of it, now he wants to have a say?! He says she

does not have to be a vegetarian if she does not want to, that I am

making choices for her. Is giving her meat not also making a choice

for her? If I would have known then what i know now, I would have

never started any of my kids on meat. He is not even raising her, in

fact he is about to go back home, which is 2 days away from here. e

is not even the one raising her, grrrr. What do you all think?

~Shelly

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

 

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You truly are wise Sage. I agree with all of your points. I try to talk to

others about it, but they do not want to know. In my community, for the most

part, anything that is not mainstream is considered to be hoaky, flaky, flighty,

stupid, or just weird. I do talk about animals and vegetarianism a fair bit.

Many listen for a sec and say " well I like my deer. " Where I live there are many

native people who still hunt. I have had a little bit of an issue with it, but I

have come to the conclusion that they are not " exploiting " the animal like

factory farming does. I have to get comfortable with that being that many of the

people I know are native. It is a different culture and they have very sacred

and distinct traditions. ~Shell

 

carol sobczak <cpsobczak wrote:I love your response. I'll have to

remember the monkey brains. I already use the dog and cat thing. When we pass

the meat section in the grocery store my kids call it the animal grave yard.

Carol

 

" turquoiseshores " <turquoiseshores wrote:

Hi Shelly and everyone,

 

The best defense is educating our children. When they're away from us, they

will have to know how to think and feel for themselves, how to act and speak

about their vegetarianism (or any other moral value).

 

When my girls were infants, as we'd pass by the meat/fish section of the grocery

store, I'd make a sympathetic, sad and compassionate face, point to the packaged

item, and say, " Do you know what that is? It's part of a chicken (or lamb, cow,

calf, turkey, rabbit, zebra, pig, etc. etc.)....that chicken didn't want us to

eat it! It wanted to walk around and be with its family! "

 

When my children got old enough to speak, we were walking past these counters,

and suddenly they'd have a sympathetic, sad and compassionate expression on

their faces, and say, " Mommy, look! We don't want to eat that! We don't eat

animals! That animal didn't want us to eat it! " They were maybe one and a half,

or two years old. I was amazed. They remembered all the different times we had

talked about why we don't eat animals.

 

When adults razz me, or just ask nicely about why we're vegetarian, I answer

them, but in different ways. If they're polite, I explain how in my friend's

anatomy class I saw that we look like chicken under the skin, that our fat is

like chicken fat, and that I didn't want to go back to meat-eating after the

class.

 

If someone is not polite, I'll ask them, " Would you eat dogs, or cats? Why not?

They're commonly eaten in the Far East. How about elephant feet? Chocolate

covered ants? Lizards? Grasshoppers?

 

" How about horses, or zebras? They eat horses in France, and zebras in Africa.

Why wouldn't you? Here, many Americans don't eat horses, but they eat cows. In

India, cows are sacred animals, never to be eaten.

 

" In Hong Kong, a very expensive delicacy is live monkey brains. Saw off the top

of a live monkey's skull, and enjoy. Very 'healthy'. Why wouldn't you eat

that??? Why are some animals okay to eat, and others not? We in my family

feel the same way about all animals, that we don't want to eat them. We are

ethical vegetarians. "

 

When there is time, we also discuss the humanitarian, health and economic sides

of vegetarianism.

 

By the time we go through this discussion, most people then at least respect my

point of view. I think my daughters seeing me speak up has helped them be firm

in their own convictions, and feel comfortable with their choices, when younger,

till now, at ages 14 and 9.

 

Successful traditions start teaching children their culture's values from birth.

This is a time in our society when we at home need to be strong teachers and

role models of our values, such as vegetarianism, not smoking or drinking, or

any other value we want our children to honor and respect. Education is the best

tool children can have.

 

Congratulations for becoming new vegetarians!

 

Warm wishes,

 

Sage

 

 

 

 

Shelly <joychild72 wrote:

I am writing this post because i wanted to talk about something that

happened here tonight to other parents who may understand. My

daughter's father was here tonight. He brought bacon for himself to

cook. I asked him to please not cook that in the house and in front

of the kids. (We are new vegetarians going on a few months now and

bacon smell is their weakness.) He cooks it anyway, against my

wishes. Then our 2 1/2 yr old asked him for some and he lovingly

leans down and gives her some bacon with a " here you go honey. " All

the while having this snide and irritated look for me. He gave her

dead pig!!! I cannot believe that he did that! He made a huge scene.

My middle daughter and I were arguing with him about taking innocent

life needlessly and he just yelled louder, right in the middle of

the kids! He has not been an authority in our daughter's life as he

has been in and out of it, now he wants to have a say?! He says she

does not have to be a vegetarian if she does not want to, that I am

making choices for her. Is giving her meat not also making a choice

for her? If I would have known then what i know now, I would have

never started any of my kids on meat. He is not even raising her, in

fact he is about to go back home, which is 2 days away from here. e

is not even the one raising her, grrrr. What do you all think?

~Shelly

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

 

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Shelly,

 

I have read all the posts to and from you over the last few days with

interest. I am very lucky to be married to a wonderful vegetarian man, so I

cannot help with that situation, but I am also in an area where " hoaky,

flaky, flighty, stupid or just weird " describes anything different - meaning

not conservative or traditional. Also, lots of folks, native American and

not, who hunt. I know what you mean about being resolved on that issue. I

certainly think it is preferable to any other modern method of slaughter,

but to me the thing is that it is just not necessary, you know? I realize

that I am not going to change these people, and I don't intend to live here

much longer, but I continue to bring veg*an treats to work and share info at

every opportunity. Good luck to you on your journey!

 

Chessie in OK

 

 

On

Behalf Of shelly

Thursday, November 10, 2005 1:50 PM

 

Re: teaching our children to keep their values /

dealing with people who have " nerve "

 

You truly are wise Sage. I agree with all of your points. I try to talk to

others about it, but they do not want to know. In my community, for the most

part, anything that is not mainstream is considered to be hoaky, flaky,

flighty, stupid, or just weird. I do talk about animals and vegetarianism a

fair bit. Many listen for a sec and say " well I like my deer. " Where I live

there are many native people who still hunt. I have had a little bit of an

issue with it, but I have come to the conclusion that they are not

" exploiting " the animal like factory farming does. I have to get comfortable

with that being that many of the people I know are native. It is a different

culture and they have very sacred and distinct traditions. ~Shell

 

carol sobczak <cpsobczak wrote:I love your response. I'll have

to remember the monkey brains. I already use the dog and cat thing. When

we pass the meat section in the grocery store my kids call it the animal

grave yard.

Carol

 

" turquoiseshores " <turquoiseshores wrote:

Hi Shelly and everyone,

 

The best defense is educating our children. When they're away from us, they

will have to know how to think and feel for themselves, how to act and speak

about their vegetarianism (or any other moral value).

 

When my girls were infants, as we'd pass by the meat/fish section of the

grocery store, I'd make a sympathetic, sad and compassionate face, point to

the packaged item, and say, " Do you know what that is? It's part of a

chicken (or lamb, cow, calf, turkey, rabbit, zebra, pig, etc. etc.)....that

chicken didn't want us to eat it! It wanted to walk around and be with its

family! "

 

When my children got old enough to speak, we were walking past these

counters, and suddenly they'd have a sympathetic, sad and compassionate

expression on their faces, and say, " Mommy, look! We don't want to eat

that! We don't eat animals! That animal didn't want us to eat it! " They

were maybe one and a half, or two years old. I was amazed. They remembered

all the different times we had talked about why we don't eat animals.

 

When adults razz me, or just ask nicely about why we're vegetarian, I answer

them, but in different ways. If they're polite, I explain how in my

friend's anatomy class I saw that we look like chicken under the skin, that

our fat is like chicken fat, and that I didn't want to go back to

meat-eating after the class.

 

If someone is not polite, I'll ask them, " Would you eat dogs, or cats? Why

not? They're commonly eaten in the Far East. How about elephant feet?

Chocolate covered ants? Lizards? Grasshoppers?

 

" How about horses, or zebras? They eat horses in France, and zebras in

Africa. Why wouldn't you? Here, many Americans don't eat horses, but they

eat cows. In India, cows are sacred animals, never to be eaten.

 

" In Hong Kong, a very expensive delicacy is live monkey brains. Saw off the

top of a live monkey's skull, and enjoy. Very 'healthy'. Why wouldn't you

eat that??? Why are some animals okay to eat, and others not? We in my

family feel the same way about all animals, that we don't want to eat them.

We are ethical vegetarians. "

 

When there is time, we also discuss the humanitarian, health and economic

sides of vegetarianism.

 

By the time we go through this discussion, most people then at least respect

my point of view. I think my daughters seeing me speak up has helped them

be firm in their own convictions, and feel comfortable with their choices,

when younger, till now, at ages 14 and 9.

 

Successful traditions start teaching children their culture's values from

birth. This is a time in our society when we at home need to be strong

teachers and role models of our values, such as vegetarianism, not smoking

or drinking, or any other value we want our children to honor and respect.

Education is the best tool children can have.

 

Congratulations for becoming new vegetarians!

 

Warm wishes,

 

Sage

 

 

 

 

Shelly <joychild72 wrote:

I am writing this post because i wanted to talk about something that

happened here tonight to other parents who may understand. My

daughter's father was here tonight. He brought bacon for himself to

cook. I asked him to please not cook that in the house and in front

of the kids. (We are new vegetarians going on a few months now and

bacon smell is their weakness.) He cooks it anyway, against my

wishes. Then our 2 1/2 yr old asked him for some and he lovingly

leans down and gives her some bacon with a " here you go honey. " All

the while having this snide and irritated look for me. He gave her

dead pig!!! I cannot believe that he did that! He made a huge scene.

My middle daughter and I were arguing with him about taking innocent

life needlessly and he just yelled louder, right in the middle of

the kids! He has not been an authority in our daughter's life as he

has been in and out of it, now he wants to have a say?! He says she

does not have to be a vegetarian if she does not want to, that I am

making choices for her. Is giving her meat not also making a choice

for her? If I would have known then what i know now, I would have

never started any of my kids on meat. He is not even raising her, in

fact he is about to go back home, which is 2 days away from here. e

is not even the one raising her, grrrr. What do you all think?

~Shelly

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

 

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

It's a good feeling when we really think about our values, and decide why we do

what we do! " Mainstream " sometimes means " just follow the crowd and don't think

about why. "

 

Sometimes there's a teachable moment with others, either young or mature, and

they get it when you repeat the reasoning behind vegetarianism. Mostly I tell

folks that it's not up to me if they feel comfortable eating meat, and at the

same time, these vegetarian values are mine and my kids. I think of my wonderful

veggie relatives, including my dear mom who just passed away, who over 60 years

have seen more and more people becoming vegetarian.

 

Here in Maryland it is sad when people look forward to deer season, when people

hunt to keep down the numbers of deer. There must be a better way to live

together with wildlife. In what part of the country do you live?

 

There is a great reverence for the sacrifice of animals in Native cultures, and

there's a reat appreciation which we don't see in " mainstream " society.

 

Take good care,

 

Sage

 

 

 

shelly <joychild72 wrote:

You truly are wise Sage. I agree with all of your points. I try to talk to

others about it, but they do not want to know. In my community, for the most

part, anything that is not mainstream is considered to be hoaky, flaky, flighty,

stupid, or just weird. I do talk about animals and vegetarianism a fair bit.

Many listen for a sec and say " well I like my deer. " Where I live there are many

native people who still hunt. I have had a little bit of an issue with it, but I

have come to the conclusion that they are not " exploiting " the animal like

factory farming does. I have to get comfortable with that being that many of the

people I know are native. It is a different culture and they have very sacred

and distinct traditions. ~Shell

 

carol sobczak <cpsobczak wrote:I love your response. I'll have to

remember the monkey brains. I already use the dog and cat thing. When we pass

the meat section in the grocery store my kids call it the animal grave yard.

Carol

 

" turquoiseshores " <turquoiseshores wrote:

Hi Shelly and everyone,

 

The best defense is educating our children. When they're away from us, they

will have to know how to think and feel for themselves, how to act and speak

about their vegetarianism (or any other moral value).

 

When my girls were infants, as we'd pass by the meat/fish section of the grocery

store, I'd make a sympathetic, sad and compassionate face, point to the packaged

item, and say, " Do you know what that is? It's part of a chicken (or lamb, cow,

calf, turkey, rabbit, zebra, pig, etc. etc.)....that chicken didn't want us to

eat it! It wanted to walk around and be with its family! "

 

When my children got old enough to speak, we were walking past these counters,

and suddenly they'd have a sympathetic, sad and compassionate expression on

their faces, and say, " Mommy, look! We don't want to eat that! We don't eat

animals! That animal didn't want us to eat it! " They were maybe one and a half,

or two years old. I was amazed. They remembered all the different times we had

talked about why we don't eat animals.

 

When adults razz me, or just ask nicely about why we're vegetarian, I answer

them, but in different ways. If they're polite, I explain how in my friend's

anatomy class I saw that we look like chicken under the skin, that our fat is

like chicken fat, and that I didn't want to go back to meat-eating after the

class.

 

If someone is not polite, I'll ask them, " Would you eat dogs, or cats? Why not?

They're commonly eaten in the Far East. How about elephant feet? Chocolate

covered ants? Lizards? Grasshoppers?

 

" How about horses, or zebras? They eat horses in France, and zebras in Africa.

Why wouldn't you? Here, many Americans don't eat horses, but they eat cows. In

India, cows are sacred animals, never to be eaten.

 

" In Hong Kong, a very expensive delicacy is live monkey brains. Saw off the top

of a live monkey's skull, and enjoy. Very 'healthy'. Why wouldn't you eat

that??? Why are some animals okay to eat, and others not? We in my family

feel the same way about all animals, that we don't want to eat them. We are

ethical vegetarians. "

 

When there is time, we also discuss the humanitarian, health and economic sides

of vegetarianism.

 

By the time we go through this discussion, most people then at least respect my

point of view. I think my daughters seeing me speak up has helped them be firm

in their own convictions, and feel comfortable with their choices, when younger,

till now, at ages 14 and 9.

 

Successful traditions start teaching children their culture's values from birth.

This is a time in our society when we at home need to be strong teachers and

role models of our values, such as vegetarianism, not smoking or drinking, or

any other value we want our children to honor and respect. Education is the best

tool children can have.

 

Congratulations for becoming new vegetarians!

 

Warm wishes,

 

Sage

 

 

 

 

Shelly <joychild72 wrote:

I am writing this post because i wanted to talk about something that

happened here tonight to other parents who may understand. My

daughter's father was here tonight. He brought bacon for himself to

cook. I asked him to please not cook that in the house and in front

of the kids. (We are new vegetarians going on a few months now and

bacon smell is their weakness.) He cooks it anyway, against my

wishes. Then our 2 1/2 yr old asked him for some and he lovingly

leans down and gives her some bacon with a " here you go honey. " All

the while having this snide and irritated look for me. He gave her

dead pig!!! I cannot believe that he did that! He made a huge scene.

My middle daughter and I were arguing with him about taking innocent

life needlessly and he just yelled louder, right in the middle of

the kids! He has not been an authority in our daughter's life as he

has been in and out of it, now he wants to have a say?! He says she

does not have to be a vegetarian if she does not want to, that I am

making choices for her. Is giving her meat not also making a choice

for her? If I would have known then what i know now, I would have

never started any of my kids on meat. He is not even raising her, in

fact he is about to go back home, which is 2 days away from here. e

is not even the one raising her, grrrr. What do you all think?

~Shelly

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

 

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I live in Northwestern Ontario in Canada. We are along the northshore of Lake

Superior. Not everyone is a follower here. i learned of a vegetarian resturant

that I am dying to go to AND a pig rescue. It is a potbellied pig rescue, but as

far as I can see they take wildlife and other animals too. I am thinking about

contacting them and I am thinking about hanging out at this resturant. Perhaps

there will be people there that may become like-minded friends. I hope so, it

sure would be nice to not feel like I am the only one that can see. Others are

trying to convince me that I am crazy, but I will not let them drag me down. I

did have a teachable moment with my oldest sister who is a very vulnerable

person. She is blind, has health problems, and is very much christian. I read

some of the information to her about jesus and veganism off of the link found on

the peta website. We both learned a lot, but we both still have questions. Take

care, and thanks, Shell

 

" turquoiseshores " <turquoiseshores wrote:It's a good

feeling when we really think about our values, and decide why we do what we do!

" Mainstream " sometimes means " just follow the crowd and don't think about why. "

 

Sometimes there's a teachable moment with others, either young or mature, and

they get it when you repeat the reasoning behind vegetarianism. Mostly I tell

folks that it's not up to me if they feel comfortable eating meat, and at the

same time, these vegetarian values are mine and my kids. I think of my wonderful

veggie relatives, including my dear mom who just passed away, who over 60 years

have seen more and more people becoming vegetarian.

 

Here in Maryland it is sad when people look forward to deer season, when people

hunt to keep down the numbers of deer. There must be a better way to live

together with wildlife. In what part of the country do you live?

 

There is a great reverence for the sacrifice of animals in Native cultures, and

there's a reat appreciation which we don't see in " mainstream " society.

 

Take good care,

 

Sage

 

 

 

shelly <joychild72 wrote:

You truly are wise Sage. I agree with all of your points. I try to talk to

others about it, but they do not want to know. In my community, for the most

part, anything that is not mainstream is considered to be hoaky, flaky, flighty,

stupid, or just weird. I do talk about animals and vegetarianism a fair bit.

Many listen for a sec and say " well I like my deer. " Where I live there are many

native people who still hunt. I have had a little bit of an issue with it, but I

have come to the conclusion that they are not " exploiting " the animal like

factory farming does. I have to get comfortable with that being that many of the

people I know are native. It is a different culture and they have very sacred

and distinct traditions. ~Shell

 

carol sobczak <cpsobczak wrote:I love your response. I'll have to

remember the monkey brains. I already use the dog and cat thing. When we pass

the meat section in the grocery store my kids call it the animal grave yard.

Carol

 

" turquoiseshores " <turquoiseshores wrote:

Hi Shelly and everyone,

 

The best defense is educating our children. When they're away from us, they

will have to know how to think and feel for themselves, how to act and speak

about their vegetarianism (or any other moral value).

 

When my girls were infants, as we'd pass by the meat/fish section of the grocery

store, I'd make a sympathetic, sad and compassionate face, point to the packaged

item, and say, " Do you know what that is? It's part of a chicken (or lamb, cow,

calf, turkey, rabbit, zebra, pig, etc. etc.)....that chicken didn't want us to

eat it! It wanted to walk around and be with its family! "

 

When my children got old enough to speak, we were walking past these counters,

and suddenly they'd have a sympathetic, sad and compassionate expression on

their faces, and say, " Mommy, look! We don't want to eat that! We don't eat

animals! That animal didn't want us to eat it! " They were maybe one and a half,

or two years old. I was amazed. They remembered all the different times we had

talked about why we don't eat animals.

 

When adults razz me, or just ask nicely about why we're vegetarian, I answer

them, but in different ways. If they're polite, I explain how in my friend's

anatomy class I saw that we look like chicken under the skin, that our fat is

like chicken fat, and that I didn't want to go back to meat-eating after the

class.

 

If someone is not polite, I'll ask them, " Would you eat dogs, or cats? Why not?

They're commonly eaten in the Far East. How about elephant feet? Chocolate

covered ants? Lizards? Grasshoppers?

 

" How about horses, or zebras? They eat horses in France, and zebras in Africa.

Why wouldn't you? Here, many Americans don't eat horses, but they eat cows. In

India, cows are sacred animals, never to be eaten.

 

" In Hong Kong, a very expensive delicacy is live monkey brains. Saw off the top

of a live monkey's skull, and enjoy. Very 'healthy'. Why wouldn't you eat

that??? Why are some animals okay to eat, and others not? We in my family

feel the same way about all animals, that we don't want to eat them. We are

ethical vegetarians. "

 

When there is time, we also discuss the humanitarian, health and economic sides

of vegetarianism.

 

By the time we go through this discussion, most people then at least respect my

point of view. I think my daughters seeing me speak up has helped them be firm

in their own convictions, and feel comfortable with their choices, when younger,

till now, at ages 14 and 9.

 

Successful traditions start teaching children their culture's values from birth.

This is a time in our society when we at home need to be strong teachers and

role models of our values, such as vegetarianism, not smoking or drinking, or

any other value we want our children to honor and respect. Education is the best

tool children can have.

 

Congratulations for becoming new vegetarians!

 

Warm wishes,

 

Sage

 

 

 

 

Shelly <joychild72 wrote:

I am writing this post because i wanted to talk about something that

happened here tonight to other parents who may understand. My

daughter's father was here tonight. He brought bacon for himself to

cook. I asked him to please not cook that in the house and in front

of the kids. (We are new vegetarians going on a few months now and

bacon smell is their weakness.) He cooks it anyway, against my

wishes. Then our 2 1/2 yr old asked him for some and he lovingly

leans down and gives her some bacon with a " here you go honey. " All

the while having this snide and irritated look for me. He gave her

dead pig!!! I cannot believe that he did that! He made a huge scene.

My middle daughter and I were arguing with him about taking innocent

life needlessly and he just yelled louder, right in the middle of

the kids! He has not been an authority in our daughter's life as he

has been in and out of it, now he wants to have a say?! He says she

does not have to be a vegetarian if she does not want to, that I am

making choices for her. Is giving her meat not also making a choice

for her? If I would have known then what i know now, I would have

never started any of my kids on meat. He is not even raising her, in

fact he is about to go back home, which is 2 days away from here. e

is not even the one raising her, grrrr. What do you all think?

~Shelly

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

 

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Shelly,

I have been a vegetarian for almost 20 years and have

been lucky enough to have the support of my mostly

meating eating family. You are so courageous! I really

admire you because of your desire to learn and I feel

like you have such compassion and grace when facing

obstacles and isolation. Keep your head up and please

know that you're not alone!

Jenny

 

--- shelly <joychild72 wrote:

 

> I live in Northwestern Ontario in Canada. We are

> along the northshore of Lake Superior. Not everyone

> is a follower here. i learned of a vegetarian

> resturant that I am dying to go to AND a pig rescue.

> It is a potbellied pig rescue, but as far as I can

> see they take wildlife and other animals too. I am

> thinking about contacting them and I am thinking

> about hanging out at this resturant. Perhaps there

> will be people there that may become like-minded

> friends. I hope so, it sure would be nice to not

> feel like I am the only one that can see. Others are

> trying to convince me that I am crazy, but I will

> not let them drag me down. I did have a teachable

> moment with my oldest sister who is a very

> vulnerable person. She is blind, has health

> problems, and is very much christian. I read some of

> the information to her about jesus and veganism off

> of the link found on the peta website. We both

> learned a lot, but we both still have questions.

> Take care, and thanks, Shell

>

> " turquoiseshores "

> <turquoiseshores wrote:It's a good

> feeling when we really think about our values, and

> decide why we do what we do! " Mainstream " sometimes

> means " just follow the crowd and don't think about

> why. "

>

> Sometimes there's a teachable moment with others,

> either young or mature, and they get it when you

> repeat the reasoning behind vegetarianism. Mostly I

> tell folks that it's not up to me if they feel

> comfortable eating meat, and at the same time, these

> vegetarian values are mine and my kids. I think of

> my wonderful veggie relatives, including my dear mom

> who just passed away, who over 60 years have seen

> more and more people becoming vegetarian.

>

> Here in Maryland it is sad when people look forward

> to deer season, when people hunt to keep down the

> numbers of deer. There must be a better way to live

> together with wildlife. In what part of the country

> do you live?

>

> There is a great reverence for the sacrifice of

> animals in Native cultures, and there's a reat

> appreciation which we don't see in " mainstream "

> society.

>

> Take good care,

>

> Sage

>

>

>

> shelly <joychild72 wrote:

> You truly are wise Sage. I agree with all of your

> points. I try to talk to others about it, but they

> do not want to know. In my community, for the most

> part, anything that is not mainstream is considered

> to be hoaky, flaky, flighty, stupid, or just weird.

> I do talk about animals and vegetarianism a fair

> bit. Many listen for a sec and say " well I like my

> deer. " Where I live there are many native people who

> still hunt. I have had a little bit of an issue with

> it, but I have come to the conclusion that they are

> not " exploiting " the animal like factory farming

> does. I have to get comfortable with that being that

> many of the people I know are native. It is a

> different culture and they have very sacred and

> distinct traditions. ~Shell

>

> carol sobczak <cpsobczak wrote:I love

> your response. I'll have to remember the monkey

> brains. I already use the dog and cat thing. When

> we pass the meat section in the grocery store my

> kids call it the animal grave yard.

> Carol

>

> " turquoiseshores "

> <turquoiseshores wrote:

> Hi Shelly and everyone,

>

> The best defense is educating our children. When

> they're away from us, they will have to know how to

> think and feel for themselves, how to act and speak

> about their vegetarianism (or any other moral

> value).

>

> When my girls were infants, as we'd pass by the

> meat/fish section of the grocery store, I'd make a

> sympathetic, sad and compassionate face, point to

> the packaged item, and say, " Do you know what that

> is? It's part of a chicken (or lamb, cow, calf,

> turkey, rabbit, zebra, pig, etc. etc.)....that

> chicken didn't want us to eat it! It wanted to walk

> around and be with its family! "

>

> When my children got old enough to speak, we were

> walking past these counters, and suddenly they'd

> have a sympathetic, sad and compassionate expression

> on their faces, and say, " Mommy, look! We don't

> want to eat that! We don't eat animals! That animal

> didn't want us to eat it! " They were maybe one and

> a half, or two years old. I was amazed. They

> remembered all the different times we had talked

> about why we don't eat animals.

>

> When adults razz me, or just ask nicely about why

> we're vegetarian, I answer them, but in different

> ways. If they're polite, I explain how in my

> friend's anatomy class I saw that we look like

> chicken under the skin, that our fat is like chicken

> fat, and that I didn't want to go back to

> meat-eating after the class.

>

> If someone is not polite, I'll ask them, " Would you

> eat dogs, or cats? Why not? They're commonly eaten

> in the Far East. How about elephant feet? Chocolate

> covered ants? Lizards? Grasshoppers?

>

> " How about horses, or zebras? They eat horses in

> France, and zebras in Africa. Why wouldn't you?

> Here, many Americans don't eat horses, but they eat

> cows. In India, cows are sacred animals, never to

> be eaten.

>

> " In Hong Kong, a very expensive delicacy is live

> monkey brains. Saw off the top of a live monkey's

> skull, and enjoy. Very 'healthy'. Why wouldn't you

> eat that??? Why are some animals okay to eat, and

> others not? We in my family feel the same way about

> all animals, that we don't want to eat them. We are

> ethical vegetarians. "

>

> When there is time, we also discuss the

> humanitarian, health and economic sides of

> vegetarianism.

>

> By the time we go through this discussion, most

> people then at least respect my point of view. I

> think my daughters seeing me speak up has helped

> them be firm in their own convictions, and feel

> comfortable with their choices, when younger, till

> now, at ages 14 and 9.

>

> Successful traditions start teaching children their

> culture's values from birth. This is a time in our

> society when we at home need to be strong teachers

> and role models of our values, such as

> vegetarianism, not smoking or drinking, or any other

> value we want our children to honor and respect.

> Education is the best tool children can have.

>

> Congratulations for becoming new vegetarians!

>

> Warm wishes,

>

> Sage

>

>

>

>

> Shelly <joychild72 wrote:

> I am writing this post because i wanted to talk

> about something that

> happened here tonight to other parents who may

> understand. My

> daughter's father was here tonight. He brought bacon

> for himself to

> cook. I asked him to please not cook that in the

> house and in front

> of the kids. (We are new vegetarians going on a few

> months now and

> bacon smell is their weakness.) He cooks it anyway,

> against my

> wishes. Then our 2 1/2 yr old asked him for some and

> he lovingly

> leans down and gives her some bacon with a " here you

> go honey. " All

> the while having this snide and irritated look for

> me. He gave her

> dead pig!!! I cannot believe that he did that! He

> made a huge scene.

> My middle daughter and I were arguing with him about

> taking innocent

> life needlessly and he just yelled louder, right in

> the middle of

> the kids! He has not been an authority in our

> daughter's life as he

> has been in and out of it, now he wants to have a

> say?! He says she

> does not have to be a vegetarian if she does not

> want to, that I am

> making choices for her. Is giving her meat not also

> making a choice

> for her? If I would have known then what i know now,

> I would have

> never started any of my kids on meat. He is not even

> raising her, in

> fact he is about to go back home, which is 2 days

> away

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.

http://farechase.

[Guest guest]

--

" turquoiseshores " <turquoiseshores

 

Fri, 11 Nov 2005 05:44:59 -0800 (PST)

 

 

>Here in Maryland it is sad when people look forward to deer season, when people

hunt to keep down the numbers of deer. There must be a better way to live

together with wildlife. In what part of the country do you live?

 

I know that you weren't addressing this to me, but I also live in big hunting

country...in northern WI. A couple of years ago, when I lived in another part

of the state, I was in touch with someone in a local AR group there. He told me

that they got someone from the state DNR to admit (on tape!) that the DNR has a

policy of not allowing hunters to kill as many females as males. That way, the

deer population is kept high, and the DNR gets more money from the hunters.

This would explain why the deer numbers never go down, even though I've been

hearing the 'we have to hunt to keep their numbers down' speech from hunters for

decades. Just something to think about when encountering the hunters who insist

that they're doing the deer a favor.

 

 

>There is a great reverence for the sacrifice of animals in Native cultures, and

there's a reat appreciation which we don't see in " mainstream " society.

 

In this area, there are Native American ceremonies held for any and all hunters

who wish to offer a blessing for the lives that have been taken. It's a far cry

from factory farming.

 

Blessings,

Maria

>

>

>

>

 

>

>

>

>

>

>For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

>

>edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think that we as human beings can make anything seem " ok. " We can even

rationalize the cruelest and most selfish of acts and convince ourselves and

others that they are nobel ones. It is really a sad state of affairs. ~Shelly

 

Maria Rasmussen <Fab5 wrote:

 

 

--

" turquoiseshores " <turquoiseshores

 

Fri, 11 Nov 2005 05:44:59 -0800 (PST)

 

 

>Here in Maryland it is sad when people look forward to deer season, when people

hunt to keep down the numbers of deer. There must be a better way to live

together with wildlife. In what part of the country do you live?

 

I know that you weren't addressing this to me, but I also live in big hunting

country...in northern WI. A couple of years ago, when I lived in another part

of the state, I was in touch with someone in a local AR group there. He told me

that they got someone from the state DNR to admit (on tape!) that the DNR has a

policy of not allowing hunters to kill as many females as males. That way, the

deer population is kept high, and the DNR gets more money from the hunters.

This would explain why the deer numbers never go down, even though I've been

hearing the 'we have to hunt to keep their numbers down' speech from hunters for

decades. Just something to think about when encountering the hunters who insist

that they're doing the deer a favor.

 

 

>There is a great reverence for the sacrifice of animals in Native cultures, and

there's a reat appreciation which we don't see in " mainstream " society.

 

In this area, there are Native American ceremonies held for any and all hunters

who wish to offer a blessing for the lives that have been taken. It's a far cry

from factory farming.

 

Blessings,

Maria

>

>

>

>

 

>

>

>

>

>

>For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

>

>edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Jen, that means a lot. *smiles* ~Shell

 

Jenny Rieck <jennrieck wrote:Shelly,

I have been a vegetarian for almost 20 years and have

been lucky enough to have the support of my mostly

meating eating family. You are so courageous! I really

admire you because of your desire to learn and I feel

like you have such compassion and grace when facing

obstacles and isolation. Keep your head up and please

know that you're not alone!

Jenny

 

--- shelly <joychild72 wrote:

 

> I live in Northwestern Ontario in Canada. We are

> along the northshore of Lake Superior. Not everyone

> is a follower here. i learned of a vegetarian

> resturant that I am dying to go to AND a pig rescue.

> It is a potbellied pig rescue, but as far as I can

> see they take wildlife and other animals too. I am

> thinking about contacting them and I am thinking

> about hanging out at this resturant. Perhaps there

> will be people there that may become like-minded

> friends. I hope so, it sure would be nice to not

> feel like I am the only one that can see. Others are

> trying to convince me that I am crazy, but I will

> not let them drag me down. I did have a teachable

> moment with my oldest sister who is a very

> vulnerable person. She is blind, has health

> problems, and is very much christian. I read some of

> the information to her about jesus and veganism off

> of the link found on the peta website. We both

> learned a lot, but we both still have questions.

> Take care, and thanks, Shell

>

> " turquoiseshores "

> <turquoiseshores wrote:It's a good

> feeling when we really think about our values, and

> decide why we do what we do! " Mainstream " sometimes

> means " just follow the crowd and don't think about

> why. "

>

> Sometimes there's a teachable moment with others,

> either young or mature, and they get it when you

> repeat the reasoning behind vegetarianism. Mostly I

> tell folks that it's not up to me if they feel

> comfortable eating meat, and at the same time, these

> vegetarian values are mine and my kids. I think of

> my wonderful veggie relatives, including my dear mom

> who just passed away, who over 60 years have seen

> more and more people becoming vegetarian.

>

> Here in Maryland it is sad when people look forward

> to deer season, when people hunt to keep down the

> numbers of deer. There must be a better way to live

> together with wildlife. In what part of the country

> do you live?

>

> There is a great reverence for the sacrifice of

> animals in Native cultures, and there's a reat

> appreciation which we don't see in " mainstream "

> society.

>

> Take good care,

>

> Sage

>

>

>

> shelly <joychild72 wrote:

> You truly are wise Sage. I agree with all of your

> points. I try to talk to others about it, but they

> do not want to know. In my community, for the most

> part, anything that is not mainstream is considered

> to be hoaky, flaky, flighty, stupid, or just weird.

> I do talk about animals and vegetarianism a fair

> bit. Many listen for a sec and say " well I like my

> deer. " Where I live there are many native people who

> still hunt. I have had a little bit of an issue with

> it, but I have come to the conclusion that they are

> not " exploiting " the animal like factory farming

> does. I have to get comfortable with that being that

> many of the people I know are native. It is a

> different culture and they have very sacred and

> distinct traditions. ~Shell

>

> carol sobczak <cpsobczak wrote:I love

> your response. I'll have to remember the monkey

> brains. I already use the dog and cat thing. When

> we pass the meat section in the grocery store my

> kids call it the animal grave yard.

> Carol

>

> " turquoiseshores "

> <turquoiseshores wrote:

> Hi Shelly and everyone,

>

> The best defense is educating our children. When

> they're away from us, they will have to know how to

> think and feel for themselves, how to act and speak

> about their vegetarianism (or any other moral

> value).

>

> When my girls were infants, as we'd pass by the

> meat/fish section of the grocery store, I'd make a

> sympathetic, sad and compassionate face, point to

> the packaged item, and say, " Do you know what that

> is? It's part of a chicken (or lamb, cow, calf,

> turkey, rabbit, zebra, pig, etc. etc.)....that

> chicken didn't want us to eat it! It wanted to walk

> around and be with its family! "

>

> When my children got old enough to speak, we were

> walking past these counters, and suddenly they'd

> have a sympathetic, sad and compassionate expression

> on their faces, and say, " Mommy, look! We don't

> want to eat that! We don't eat animals! That animal

> didn't want us to eat it! " They were maybe one and

> a half, or two years old. I was amazed. They

> remembered all the different times we had talked

> about why we don't eat animals.

>

> When adults razz me, or just ask nicely about why

> we're vegetarian, I answer them, but in different

> ways. If they're polite, I explain how in my

> friend's anatomy class I saw that we look like

> chicken under the skin, that our fat is like chicken

> fat, and that I didn't want to go back to

> meat-eating after the class.

>

> If someone is not polite, I'll ask them, " Would you

> eat dogs, or cats? Why not? They're commonly eaten

> in the Far East. How about elephant feet? Chocolate

> covered ants? Lizards? Grasshoppers?

>

> " How about horses, or zebras? They eat horses in

> France, and zebras in Africa. Why wouldn't you?

> Here, many Americans don't eat horses, but they eat

> cows. In India, cows are sacred animals, never to

> be eaten.

>

> " In Hong Kong, a very expensive delicacy is live

> monkey brains. Saw off the top of a live monkey's

> skull, and enjoy. Very 'healthy'. Why wouldn't you

> eat that??? Why are some animals okay to eat, and

> others not? We in my family feel the same way about

> all animals, that we don't want to eat them. We are

> ethical vegetarians. "

>

> When there is time, we also discuss the

> humanitarian, health and economic sides of

> vegetarianism.

>

> By the time we go through this discussion, most

> people then at least respect my point of view. I

> think my daughters seeing me speak up has helped

> them be firm in their own convictions, and feel

> comfortable with their choices, when younger, till

> now, at ages 14 and 9.

>

> Successful traditions start teaching children their

> culture's values from birth. This is a time in our

> society when we at home need to be strong teachers

> and role models of our values, such as

> vegetarianism, not smoking or drinking, or any other

> value we want our children to honor and respect.

> Education is the best tool children can have.

>

> Congratulations for becoming new vegetarians!

>

> Warm wishes,

>

> Sage

>

>

>

>

> Shelly <joychild72 wrote:

> I am writing this post because i wanted to talk

> about something that

> happened here tonight to other parents who may

> understand. My

> daughter's father was here tonight. He brought bacon

> for himself to

> cook. I asked him to please not cook that in the

> house and in front

> of the kids. (We are new vegetarians going on a few

> months now and

> bacon smell is their weakness.) He cooks it anyway,

> against my

> wishes. Then our 2 1/2 yr old asked him for some and

> he lovingly

> leans down and gives her some bacon with a " here you

> go honey. " All

> the while having this snide and irritated look for

> me. He gave her

> dead pig!!! I cannot believe that he did that! He

> made a huge scene.

> My middle daughter and I were arguing with him about

> taking innocent

> life needlessly and he just yelled louder, right in

> the middle of

> the kids! He has not been an authority in our

> daughter's life as he

> has been in and out of it, now he wants to have a

> say?! He says she

> does not have to be a vegetarian if she does not

> want to, that I am

> making choices for her. Is giving her meat not also

> making a choice

> for her? If I would have known then what i know now,

> I would have

> never started any of my kids on meat. He is not even

> raising her, in

> fact he is about to go back home, which is 2 days

> away

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

 

FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.

http://farechase.

 

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

 

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.