To Ron

[Guest guest]

Ron,

i am very sorry to do this, especially after having just apologised

for offending you, but i am going to have to ask you to leave the

group. I had hoped that we could work this out without

difficulties. But having now read you last posts i feel i have to

protect the group members who put their faith in me as a moderator.

I feel that your last posts have been extremely offensive to both

the group as a whole, and several group members individually, and i

will not allow group members to be personally attacked in a " safe

forum " . It is completely unacceptable.

I am posting this message up to everyone as i have no wish to

conduct such proceedings in secret.

I do hope you succeed in your goal for a healthy lifestyle and i

hope you find more like minded people to talk to who share your

vision. As i said originally you can easily create your own group

on the homepage.

 

Good luck for the future,

 

Laura

[Guest guest]

>>...to ask you to leave the group...i

have to protect the group members who

put their faith in me as a moderator.<<

 

Laura, a tough decision in a tough situation. You held up well under fire.

 

>>...your last posts have been extremely

offensive to both the group as a whole,

and several group members individually...<<

 

I agree, the last couple of posts crossed the line.

 

It's indeed sad to read that kind of personal attack and then expect

civility to be the result. That's not a world I want to live in.

 

Dave

[Guest guest]

Thank you. It would be a tough decision to have to make but I think you thought it through both pros and cons and made the right one.

Allison MurpheyAdministrative AssistantPlanned Parenthood of Western Pennsylvania(412) 434-8957

 

Ron,i am very sorry to do this, especially after having just apologised for offending you, but i am going to have to ask you to leave the group.

[Guest guest]

Ron,

i am very sorry to do this, especially after having

just apologised

for offending you, but i am going to have to ask you

to leave the

group.

 

 

-------

 

Thank you. It would be a tough decision

to have to make but I think you thought it through both pros and cons

and made the right one.

 

Allison Murphey

Administrative Assistant

Planned Parenthood of Western Pennsylvania

(412) 434-8957

 

 

I was going to protest this, but now that I've read all his

posts, I have to agree. I was perfectly willing to discuss the issues

with him. I don't mind a bald and frank discussion of the problem--for

me it's a problem!--but I don't want write a thoughtful, honest post

and get attacked for my trouble.

 

this remark here:

 

At 8:00 PM +0000 1/15/03, rlmftw <rlmftw

wrote:

Susan:

 

Hope you don't mind if I say that you appear to be eating for

pleasure, comfort, escape, recreation, entertainment, etc.

 

I think it is a waste of time for a person to diet who is not

willing

to put health and wellness, weight loss, conditioning or something

besides pleasure and comfort in first priority.

 

is not " experience, strength and hope " It's

blame-fixing. If I didn't have a problem, then I wouldn't need to be

in a group like this. Besides, nobody gets points for impersonating my

mother.

 

AA-style cold turkey isn't going to work for weight loss. You

must eat to live. An alcoholic can quit entirely. He/she can leave the

" culture " of drinking and get away from drinking buddies.

Imagine an alcoholic who *must* drink 1 drink every day and *must*

live in a bar with other people who are drinking all the time.

 

But overeating isn't overdrinking. It's *very* tempting to use

the addiction model for overeating. There are a lot of similarities. I

can talk the addiction model by the yard anytime I care to. But it

just doesn't work. Food isn't addicting. I was in Overeaters Anonymous

for about 3 years. I saw literally hundreds of people come and go. I

saw exactly 2 (count them: t-w-o) people lose significant weight and

keep it off using the program. I saw lots of people *try* for six

months or more and lose small amounts but I saw only those two succeed

and one of them was in AA also. It was like watching people use

antibiotics to cure a virus infection. Food just isn't alcohol or

drugs and overuse can't be cured the same way.

 

Susan

 

--

---------

Please visit my website:

http://members.cox.net/sbcogan

 

Also, check out an excerpt of " Jubilee, " which will be

published in the next few months:

http://members.cox.net/sbcogan/writing.html

[Guest guest]

* * * * Susan wrote. . .

 

>>. . . now that I've read all his posts, I have to agree. <<

 

With you kind of in the middle of it yesterday, I'm glad you also responded.

 

While Ron certainly brought a high level of energy to the group, his opinions seemed to move all across the scale of feelings. Sadly, his personal limits did not include a necessary level of respect for others.

 

I don't justify his actions, but I understand the confusion (this is my preception and probably not his) he was experiencing and did not communicate very well.

 

I believe Laura x made the best decision.

 

>>. . . I say that you appear to be eating forpleasure, comfort, escape, recreation, entertainment, etc. <<

 

Likewise, this comment was the final straw for me.

 

Even if a person knows these factors to be true about another person, it is still *totally* tactless to say it. And, the only purpose to do so would be to "inflict pain." Sadly, on the web that kind of behavior is common, but IMHO it is never, ever acceptable.

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> AA-style cold turkey isn't going to work for weight loss. You must eat to

live. An alcoholic can quit

> entirely. He/she can leave the " culture " of drinking and get away from

drinking buddies. Imagine an

> alcoholic who *must* drink 1 drink every day and *must* live in a bar with

other people who are

> drinking all the time.

>

Hi Susn,

 

I really admire you for persevering in this. How difficult it must be

for you I can only imagine. I think you are very brave to be constantly

battling like this, and I do hope you can manage, with a little support,

to be able to drop a few pounds and feel better about yourself. The

trick is, of course, when you are in that 'food' bar with those 'food'

people you are more or less coerced - either by them or by your own need

to satisfy yourself - to indulge in things that are not always low cal

or low fat.

 

Can you do something at home that will help? Such as, move all the no-no

foods to an empty cupboard and throw away the key (better still, throw

or give them away)? Fill your refrigerator with crunchy vegetables that

taste good raw? You can make lovely lovely dips out of yoghurt and

although not the same as chips and dips (my downfall some thirty-five

years ago!) they can be pretty satisfying. Even now I make up plastic

containers of crunchie veggies and others of various kinds of 'dip' and

pig out on them whenever I feel the need to crunch something up between

meals. I indulge that whenever I like because I rationalize that the

vitamins are good for me and they're low cal anyway ;=)

 

If you want another tip that you'll have heard before, best thing for

*me* is to measure the food for my meal onto a small side plate rather

than a dinner plate (not counting the leafy salads, that is) - I put my

husband's meal directly onto his full-sized plate too, when I'm trying

to lose weight, so that I won't be tempted by dishes on the table. But -

hey - you'll have tried all this obvious stuff. Sorry.

 

Well, Susan, you're here - and you're going to drop a few pounds even if

we have to bully you into it - gentle bullying of course ;=) Verrrry

very gentle ;=) Lots and lots of luck from me to you.

 

best,

pat

--

PAT (In London, Ontario)

Email List: townhounds-

(townhounds/)

Personal Email: SANTBROWN

Personal Webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/

----------

* " Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man

will not himself find peace. " - Albert Schweitzer

* " Don't be afraid. Just start the tape. " - Anne Rice

* " I don't do pawprints. " -- Snoopy

----------

[Guest guest]

> > AA-style cold turkey isn't going to work for weight loss. You

>must eat to live. An alcoholic can quit

>> entirely. He/she can leave the " culture " of drinking and get away

>>from drinking buddies. Imagine an

>> alcoholic who *must* drink 1 drink every day and *must* live in a

>>bar with other people who are

> > drinking all the time.

> >

>

>Sant & Brown wrote:

>

>I really admire you for persevering in this. How difficult it must be

>for you I can only imagine. I think you are very brave to be constantly

>battling like this, and I do hope you can manage, with a little support,

>to be able to drop a few pounds and feel better about yourself.

 

thank you. I'm very tough, though. :-) I was willing to continue the

conversation, though I was going to mention his bitchiness again. It

was a slippery slope, best someone stopped it.

 

>Can you do something at home that will help?

 

 

Actually I *have* made many strides in managing my weight. My husband

does like to have snacks around, but they live out of sight in the

pantry. I don't have much of a sweet tooth (which is good!) and so

the sweets he keeps around don't attract me in the least. The only

exception is chocolate and he is very considerate about not bringing

that home.

 

My big problem is what I call " opportunistic eating. " The birthday

party last night, the church potluck last Sunday. The wedding two

weeks ago. " Hey, where shall we have dinner? " " Oh, how about that

Thai buffet? " OMG somebody hold me down. I have a prescription for

Xenecal and that often helps with these occasional binges. Then I

need to have a plan to deal with the hunger. (Xenecal is a drug that

keeps fat from being absorbed. It works nicely but then you are

*hungry* after 2 or 3 hours.) I sort of like your yogurt veggie dip

idea.

 

 

<excellent suggestions snipped>

 

>

>If you want another tip that you'll have heard before, best thing for

>*me* is to measure the food for my meal onto a small side plate rather

>than a dinner plate (not counting the leafy salads, that is) - I put my

>husband's meal directly onto his full-sized plate too, when I'm trying

>to lose weight, so that I won't be tempted by dishes on the table. But -

>hey - you'll have tried all this obvious stuff. Sorry.

 

 

When I have had success in the past, it is because I weighed and

measured everything. IT's amazing how large an ounce of cheese can

look sometimes and other times it looks like a crumb.

 

>Well, Susan, you're here - and you're going to drop a few pounds even if

>we have to bully you into it - gentle bullying of course ;=) Verrrry

>very gentle ;=) Lots and lots of luck from me to you.

 

<giggle> Thank you :-)

 

This kind of chatter about the topic is really very good for me. I'm

feeling really crazy and out of control these days, but really I do

better other times. I'm working too much and getting too emotionally

extended. I need to start meditating regularly (Buddhist) and I think

that will help. The more I meditate the better *everything* in my

life gets.

 

Thank you for a nice post :-)

 

Susan

--

---------

Please visit my website:

http://members.cox.net/sbcogan

 

Also, check out an excerpt of " Jubilee, " which will be published in

the next few months:

http://members.cox.net/sbcogan/writing.html

[Guest guest]

Hi again Susan.

 

You say:

 

> My big problem is what I call " opportunistic eating. " The birthday

> party last night, the . . .

>

On isn't that always how we put weight on - unless of course it is from

inactivity over illness or injury :=( And some of these events you just

don't want to and shouldn't want to avoid. Well, I used to cheat by

having a small slimming meal before I went and then playing around with

a salad - a bit tricky on a Thai buffet, I admit. I think the only thing

to do there is *not* to order the buffet but to order the veggie stirfry

and eat only a little rice. Buffets are the very devil - designed by

people who are too lazy to cook fresh for their customers and patronized

by people who are their victims because they are in a hurry. Not fair.

And who isn't tempted to get their money's worth ;=O

 

You also say:

 

> When I have had success in the past, it is because I weighed and

> measured everything. IT's amazing how large an ounce of cheese can

> look sometimes and other times it looks like a crumb.

>

My favourite dieting tool - more important than my bathroom scale even -

is my kitchen scale. You're dead right about that ounce of cheese! And

even potatoes, as you say, can change shape and size and weight

depending on your appetite. It's not much use knowing that something is

a 'slimming' vegetable, for example, if you eat enough of it to equal

something starchy and full of calories. (Another unfair thing about the

world, to be sure!)

 

Hey, about the yoghurt dip for veggies: make it really 'sinful' with

lots and lots of spicy things in it - And don't forget that you can make

a really tasty salsa out of tomatoes and stuff that has practically no

fattening things in it at all. Also, I know they have preservatives and

salt, but sour pickles really satisfy me as a pre-meal snack - and those

*hot* pickles - the kind with loads of chillies - are very low in

calories, like veggies, and the spicy kick, if you like 'hot' food, is

really comforting to the tum. (If you're not used to spicy stuff, of

course, it will give you a terrible tummy ache - but I am only writing

that so no one will tell me off for trying to poison you ;=) - I'm not,

honestly!)

 

Anyway, you know all this stuff ;=) I just like writing about food!!!!

 

best,

pat

 

PAT (In London, Ontario)

Email List: townhounds-

(townhounds/)

Personal Email: SANTBROWN

Personal Webpage: http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/

----------

* " Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man

will not himself find peace. " - Albert Schweitzer

* " Don't be afraid. Just start the tape. " - Anne Rice

* " I don't do pawprints. " -- Snoopy

----------