Guest guest Posted August 8, 2004 Report Share Posted August 8, 2004 My (former) boyfriend, a meateater, once told me, that he had read somewhere, that vegetarians gets sick more often. Not sick with like the flu, but more serious diseases like cancer. I am quite ready to push it away as a mere scare story, but is there some sort of truth to it? Kind regards, Pernille ===== " They throw the best damn parties at the rim of hell " " What are you afraid of? It's only rock and roll... " LPW/ _________ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2004 Report Share Posted August 8, 2004 >My (former) boyfriend, a meateater, once told me, that >he had read somewhere, that vegetarians gets sick more >often. Pleased to hear that he is a 'former' boyfriend. I am super cautious about anyone who cites as a reason for their prejudice that they have 'read it somewhere' but can't or won't show me where. >Not sick with like the flu, but more serious >diseases like cancer. Lovely man! Did he also cast spells? LOL >I am quite ready to push it away as a mere scare >story . . . Yes, do that. It's nonsense. Actually, it is so far off the mark that it is almost funny. >. . . but is there some sort of truth to it? Nope. Best, gf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2004 Report Share Posted August 8, 2004 There are so many people willing to jump to such conclusions—actually, in vegan societies, cancer is almost unheard of, as is heart disease and other major ills. Several studies (real, documented ones!) have shown that people living on a vegan diet will live longer, healthier lives (one such study was done about 50 years ago, I believe, and studied Adventists—normally about ½ Adventists are considered vegetarian—and found they lived several years longer than the American average at that time—and had fewer major health issues). When someone quotes “facts” such as your former boyfriend did, ask to see the actual information and research. If they are not able or willing, it is just someone’s opinion. Further, if you find such studies and research, analyze it carefully. A couple of days ago, new research was released to show that those on high carb diets were more inclined toward cancer and other health issues. When I delved into the study, the “high carbs” included all carbs, including simple sugars and refined grains—both of which are known to be “problem foods”. This current study did not address simple vs complex carbs, nor other such issues. Diane ~ FL Homeschool mom to 5 homegrown blessings: Devin, 18; Zachary, 15; Oliver, 14; Joshua, 6; and Bethany, 5 and with dh Richard we are all... praying to adopt Anna and Vitaly from Russia 2004 now collecting Vegan recipes for our adoption fundraising cookbook 2HostKids SouthBrevardShamrocks4H Homeschool & 4H ? ~? homeschool_4-H 4H dogs ~? 4-HDogs Pernille Pedersen [uma181] Sunday, August 08, 2004 4:31 AM To: Sick easier My (former) boyfriend, a meateater, once told me, that he had read somewhere, that vegetarians gets sick more often. Not sick with like the flu, but more serious diseases like cancer. I am quite ready to push it away as a mere scare story, but is there some sort of truth to it? Kind regards, Pernille Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2004 Report Share Posted August 8, 2004 Hi there Diane ;=) Our messages kinda 'crossed' in cyberspace - or at least= I was still writing mine and sending off before I saw yours! >. . .actually, in > vegan societies, cancer is almost unheard of, as is heart disease and oth= er > major ills. Several studies (real, documented ones!) have shown that people > living on a vegan diet will live longer, healthier lives . . . Funny thing is, that other studies try to prove that this all wasn't becaus= e of the veg*n diet but because of 'other factors' like taking care to eat a balance= d diet (well, duh!) or not eating junk food (again, duh!) or not smoking or consum= ing alcohol - as if no veg*ns smoked or consumed alcohol (although some religious groups who are veg*n don't). I find that funny. If veggies as a w= hole take greater care over their intake of food and nutrients - that intake bei= ng their vegetarian diet - then if their better health is because of their car= eful diet then by definition a veggie diet, on the whole, is healthier. I'm explainin= g myself badly I know :=( > When someone quotes " facts " such as your former boyfriend did, ask to see= > the actual information and research. If they are not able or willing, it= is > just someone's opinion. Or propaganda. >Further, if you find such studies and research, > analyze it carefully. Yes, always. The kicker usually comes at the end of the article - but doesn= 't match the headline! >A couple of days ago, new research was released to > show that those on high carb diets were more inclined toward cancer and > other health issues. When I delved into the study, the " high carbs " > included all carbs, including simple sugars and refined grains—both of >>= > >which are known to be " problem foods " . This current study did not address= > >simple vs complex carbs, nor other such issues. I saw that! Thanks. Maybe this new 'research' being in the air was what triggered Pernille's recall of her boyfriend's warning? When such things ar= e in the air, we all get a little twitchy, I suspect. I do. I've been running ar= ound here complaining to my husband about biased reports, stupid reporting, etc., for= several days now ;=( Fortunately, he's also vegetarian! Best, Pat ;=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2004 Report Share Posted August 8, 2004 Diane I do not recall the source, but I read that the practicing vegetarians, of the Adventist faith, exceeded our national average life span by 15 years and of coarse, they smoke not. Another question, do many of you eat and grow sprouts, sounds like some of them could have a lot of health advantages, I have a wonderful conventional veggie garden, but I thought about growingkinds of sprouts in the off season.- Diane Kann Sunday, August 08, 2004 8:03 AM RE: Sick easier There are so many people willing to jump to such conclusions—actually, in vegan societies, cancer is almost unheard of, as is heart disease and other major ills. Several studies (real, documented ones!) have shown that people living on a vegan diet will live longer, healthier lives (one such study was done about 50 years ago, I believe, and studied Adventists—normally about ½ Adventists are considered vegetarian—and found they lived several years longer than the American average at that time—and had fewer major health issues). When someone quotes “facts” such as your former boyfriend did, ask to see the actual information and research. If they are not able or willing, it is just someone’s opinion. Further, if you find such studies and research, analyze it carefully. A couple of days ago, new research was released to show that those on high carb diets were more inclined toward cancer and other health issues. When I delved into the study, the “high carbs” included all carbs, including simple sugars and refined grains—both of which are known to be “problem foods”. This current study did not address simple vs complex carbs, nor other such issues. Diane ~ FL Homeschool mom to 5 homegrown blessings: Devin, 18; Zachary, 15; Oliver, 14; Joshua, 6; and Bethany, 5 and with dh Richard we are all... praying to adopt Anna and Vitaly from Russia 2004 now collecting Vegan recipes for our adoption fundraising cookbook 2HostKids SouthBrevardShamrocks4H Homeschool & 4H ? ~? homeschool_4-H 4H dogs ~? 4-HDogs Pernille Pedersen [uma181] Sunday, August 08, 2004 4:31 AM Subject: Sick easier My (former) boyfriend, a meateater, once told me, thathe had read somewhere, that vegetarians gets sick moreoften. Not sick with like the flu, but more seriousdiseases like cancer. I am quite ready to push it away as a mere scarestory, but is there some sort of truth to it?Kind regards,Pernille Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2004 Report Share Posted August 8, 2004 Yes, there was a study done several years ago using Adventists (because of their high rate of vegetarian lifestyle) which indicated that they live much longer and healthier (they were pursuing activities much longer) than the average American. Although the Adventist lifestyle (preferring to avoid alcohol, tobacco, high stress, etc) undoubtably is a partial factor, it is believed that the diet is a big part of the difference. Supporting studies include those involving people who immigrated here from poorer, primarily vegetarian countries (such as Asians many years ago). The first generation who immigrated were as healthy as those in their original country (little to no cancer, heart disease, etc). The next generation (who some of their parents’ diets, but also became somewhat Americanized) had an increase in these health problems and a shorter life expectancy, but still healthier and longer lived than the average American at that time. By the 3rd generation, they were eating and living as Americans and their health and life expectancy was the same as average Americans. Again, other factors were present—alcohol and tobacco usage, living a more stressful life, etc—but diet seems to be a common thread. One part of interest to me is that as a country develops and it’s people become more able to afford to eat meats and poultry, it’s overall health declines somewhat, while it’s ability to afford medical care does increase and help to offset. Still, clogged arteries are clogged and cancer can kill…medicine and money are often not enough… Diane ~ FL Homeschool mom to 5 homegrown blessings: Devin, 18; Zachary, 15; Oliver, 14; Joshua, 6; and Bethany, 5 and with dh Richard we are all... praying to adopt Anna and Vitaly from Russia 2004 now collecting Vegan recipes for our adoption fundraising cookbook 2HostKids SouthBrevardShamrocks4H Homeschool & 4H ? ~? homeschool_4-H 4H dogs ~? 4-HDogs Ralph [rsole] Sunday, August 08, 2004 11:19 AM To: Re: RE: Sick easier Diane I do not recall the source, but I read that the practicing vegetarians, of the Adventist faith, exceeded our national average life span by 15 years and of coarse, they smoke not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2004 Report Share Posted August 8, 2004 Hi Ralph, I use sprouts quite a bit, but I buy them. I have a tendecy to kill anything that looks remotely alive, including my fake plants! hahha...we have a WONDERFUL health food store that carries fresh sprouts as well as plats of wheat grass! ...· ´¨¨)) -:¦:- ¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- ((¸¸.·´ Nancy - Ralph Sunday, August 08, 2004 11:19 AM Re: RE: Sick easier Diane I do not recall the source, but I read that the practicing vegetarians, of the Adventist faith, exceeded our national average life span by 15 years and of coarse, they smoke not. Another question, do many of you eat and grow sprouts, sounds like some of them could have a lot of health advantages, I have a wonderful conventional veggie garden, but I thought about growingkinds of sprouts in the off season.- Diane Kann Sunday, August 08, 2004 8:03 AM RE: Sick easier There are so many people willing to jump to such conclusions—actually, in vegan societies, cancer is almost unheard of, as is heart disease and other major ills. Several studies (real, documented ones!) have shown that people living on a vegan diet will live longer, healthier lives (one such study was done about 50 years ago, I believe, and studied Adventists—normally about ½ Adventists are considered vegetarian—and found they lived several years longer than the American average at that time—and had fewer major health issues). When someone quotes “facts” such as your former boyfriend did, ask to see the actual information and research. If they are not able or willing, it is just someone’s opinion. Further, if you find such studies and research, analyze it carefully. A couple of days ago, new research was released to show that those on high carb diets were more inclined toward cancer and other health issues. When I delved into the study, the “high carbs” included all carbs, including simple sugars and refined grains—both of which are known to be “problem foods”. This current study did not address simple vs complex carbs, nor other such issues. Diane ~ FL Homeschool mom to 5 homegrown blessings: Devin, 18; Zachary, 15; Oliver, 14; Joshua, 6; and Bethany, 5 and with dh Richard we are all... praying to adopt Anna and Vitaly from Russia 2004 now collecting Vegan recipes for our adoption fundraising cookbook 2HostKids SouthBrevardShamrocks4H Homeschool & 4H ? ~? homeschool_4-H 4H dogs ~? 4-HDogs Pernille Pedersen [uma181] Sunday, August 08, 2004 4:31 AM Subject: Sick easier My (former) boyfriend, a meateater, once told me, thathe had read somewhere, that vegetarians gets sick moreoften. Not sick with like the flu, but more seriousdiseases like cancer. I am quite ready to push it away as a mere scarestory, but is there some sort of truth to it?Kind regards,Pernille Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 Hi Nancy Do you have favorite sprouts and what is the your favorite dish using sprouts? Thanks, Ralph - Nancy Kohn Sunday, August 08, 2004 1:54 PM Re: RE: Sick easier Hi Ralph, I use sprouts quite a bit, but I buy them. I have a tendecy to kill anything that looks remotely alive, including my fake plants! hahha...we have a WONDERFUL health food store that carries fresh sprouts as well as plats of wheat grass! ...· ´¨¨)) -:¦:- ¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) ((¸¸.·´ ..·´ -:¦:- ((¸¸.·´ Nancy - Ralph Sunday, August 08, 2004 11:19 AM Re: RE: Sick easier Diane I do not recall the source, but I read that the practicing vegetarians, of the Adventist faith, exceeded our national average life span by 15 years and of coarse, they smoke not. Another question, do many of you eat and grow sprouts, sounds like some of them could have a lot of health advantages, I have a wonderful conventional veggie garden, but I thought about growingkinds of sprouts in the off season.- Diane Kann Sunday, August 08, 2004 8:03 AM RE: Sick easier There are so many people willing to jump to such conclusions—actually, in vegan societies, cancer is almost unheard of, as is heart disease and other major ills. Several studies (real, documented ones!) have shown that people living on a vegan diet will live longer, healthier lives (one such study was done about 50 years ago, I believe, and studied Adventists—normally about ½ Adventists are considered vegetarian—and found they lived several years longer than the American average at that time—and had fewer major health issues). When someone quotes “facts” such as your former boyfriend did, ask to see the actual information and research. If they are not able or willing, it is just someone’s opinion. Further, if you find such studies and research, analyze it carefully. A couple of days ago, new research was released to show that those on high carb diets were more inclined toward cancer and other health issues. When I delved into the study, the “high carbs” included all carbs, including simple sugars and refined grains—both of which are known to be “problem foods”. This current study did not address simple vs complex carbs, nor other such issues. Diane ~ FL Homeschool mom to 5 homegrown blessings: Devin, 18; Zachary, 15; Oliver, 14; Joshua, 6; and Bethany, 5 and with dh Richard we are all... praying to adopt Anna and Vitaly from Russia 2004 now collecting Vegan recipes for our adoption fundraising cookbook 2HostKids SouthBrevardShamrocks4H Homeschool & 4H ? ~? homeschool_4-H 4H dogs ~? 4-HDogs Pernille Pedersen [uma181] Sunday, August 08, 2004 4:31 AM Subject: Sick easier My (former) boyfriend, a meateater, once told me, thathe had read somewhere, that vegetarians gets sick moreoften. Not sick with like the flu, but more seriousdiseases like cancer. I am quite ready to push it away as a mere scarestory, but is there some sort of truth to it?Kind regards,Pernille Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 9, 2004 Report Share Posted August 9, 2004 Okay, there might be something of which we should all be cautious. My own experience of eliminating meat was not health-based, and so I didn't think much about such things. Hence, my consumption of processed foods actually went up, because I did not know much about cooking and the garbage they put in our food. I don't think the danger is vegetarian vs. meat-eater, but more organic vs. processed/nonorganic, or whole grain vs. processed, or just healthy vs. unhealthy! That's why I get so annoyed at the blanket promotion of vegetarianism as an automatically healthy choice...we can too easily substitute a Kraft dinner (sorry BNL!) for that now-forbidden hamburger, and not be much better for it. Educated vegetarianism is probably healthier than carnivorism, of course! I became a vegetarian at age 17 for animal reasons, at now, at 34, I have high triglycerides, slightly high cholesterol, and I've been told that I'm almost at that " pre-diabetic " mark. This is all my responsibility and I need to make corrections, but becoming vegetarian did not prevent this from happening! Boil this down: we still need to educate ourselves on eating. I'm sure, in this group, I'm preaching to the choir! Might even be a good idea to get assistance from our medical practitioner (whichever kind we prefer) so the transition is truly healthy...healthier than our previous path! I plan to do that (get with a doctor or other expert) when I finally switch to veganism. Just some thoughts...from an ovo-lacto compulsive eater! LOL Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Hi Andrew ;=) Sorry to hear you are in poor health, but maybe you've come to the right place to find like-minded people who can help you to find the best way of eating to improve your health - along with your nutritionist, as you say. >My own experience of eliminating meat was not health-based . . . my consumption of processed foods actually went up, because I did not know >> >much about cooking and the garbage they put in our food. . . . Yes, well you don't need to abstain from meat to eat rubbishy 'food' - that's for sure and that's one good reason why there is such a health crisis on this north american continent. ;=( But yes, that can certainly happen. You were young, as you say, and it's hard when young to remember that you're not immortal and that you have to take care of the one body you've got by eating discriminately. >I don't think the danger is vegetarian vs. meat-eater. . . Except for the animals, of course ;=) Many vegetarians would disagree with you here in any case - despite any remarks about 'organic'. In any case, this is a vegetarian list and we don't want to wander into a debate regarding the possibility of having me*t in a healthy diet (although we are aware that all members are not vegetarian). I understand you weren't doing that - truly I do - but I just want to get the storyline straight for anyone who might have wandered into the theatre halfway through the first act ;=) >but more organic vs. processed/nonorganic, or whole grain vs. processed, or >just healthy vs. unhealthy! Agreed that organic grains, veggies and beans are free of pesticides and all the rest of the stuff that goes into producing more rather than better - and hence better for us! Processed foods? Well, we all (well maybe not all) eat them once in a while but as a rule of thumb it's wise to banish as many processed foods as possible from one's daily diet, likewise the white foods - wholegrains are so much tastier anyway! And yes - healthier! *lol* And for those worried about cholesterol, as you are, how about leaving eggs and dairy severely alone? Good idea. >That's why I get so annoyed at the blanket promotion of vegetarianism >as an automatically healthy choice. Where where????? I haven't seen such a 'blanket promotion' . Most of the propaganda is against vegetarianism ;=) Well, Andrew, all the very best of luck - just ask any questions and we'll try to help. Your warning is sound - omitting a whole food group from one's diet without considering what should replace it is not a good idea. Nor is adding a whole food group, btw, without due consideration. Vegans for example would have to think twice about the advisability of adding dairy to their plant-based diet! Our bodies are pretty clever, but we have to be careful of what we are feeding them if they are to continue to do good service ;=) >Might even be a good > idea to get assistance from our medical practitioner (whichever kind > we prefer) so the transition is truly healthy Medical training includes little or no training in nutrition.. . . Best, Pat ;=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Pat wrote: > Agreed that organic grains, veggies and beans are free of pesticides and all > the rest of the stuff that goes into producing more rather than better - and > hence better for us! Processed foods? Well, we all (well maybe not all) eat > them once in a while but as a rule of thumb it's wise to banish as many > processed foods as possible from one's daily diet, likewise the white foods - > wholegrains are so much tastier anyway! And yes - healthier! *lol* And for > those worried about cholesterol, as you are, how about leaving eggs and > dairy severely alone? Good idea. I agree it's difficult to make a general rule for what is healthy and what isn't cos a lot depends on the source - e.g. the US are given much more freedom to treat animals with hormones, forbidden here, which end up in the meat and milk - and the meaning of " organic " differs a lot from place to place. My own idea is that in general an ovo-lacto-vegetarian diet is healthier than an omnivorous one and contains everything needed for health. I'm not so sure if we could say that about a vegan diet, given that vitamin B12 is only present in animal sources - we don't need very much of this for a whole lifetime but what we need, we need. Piers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Oh don't even get me started on what is and isn't considered 'organic' - I'm told that European standards are stricter than N American ones - but that's a whole 'n'other discussion - which I would be pleased to take up ;=) in another email. But to continue with something you mentioned further down in your email . . . B12 is verrrry important and as you say we might not need a lot but what we need we really need ;=) It does nasty things to the mind and bod if it's not there! ;=( There are said to be vegan sources of B12 of course. I don't know what you think of this site (in our Links): http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm#reliable Since my dh and I aren't vegan, it's not been a major concern for us personally - although when flirting with veganism, as we do from time to time, we wonder. Best, Pat ;=) > My own idea is that in general an ovo-lacto-vegetarian diet is healthier > than an omnivorous one and contains everything needed for health. I'm not so > sure if we could say that about a vegan diet, given that vitamin B12 is only > present in animal sources - we don't need very much of this for a whole > lifetime but what we need, we need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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