Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 It is not my intention to sound snide, but I must say that I was thrilled when the last car I purchased actually had a CD player and AC that worked...if Im ever in a position to turn down leather, I will be grateful!!! :-) There are many many cars already being manufactured that do not use leather upholstery or for the interior surfaces. Unless there is some kind of hidden leather in cars that Im not aware of, Im not sure this concept of vegan cars is something new. Am I missing something? Are there animal products used in parts of the car we dont see? Putting the vegan label on a car seems sort of like putting a " Now Low Fat! " sticker on an onion. Werent they always vegan? I agree that it is one thing to not eat animal based products and another thing entirely to stop wearing them. I joke that I have stopped eating the animals but I cant seem to stop wearing their dead carcasses. At least I buy second hand, so the karma is not completely mine ;-). Im working on it. As a vegetarian who eats eggs and dairy from organically raised, free range cows and chickens, I am very happy with the symbiotic relationship I share with cows, chickens, bees, etc. Im lucky enough to be able to visit the farm where I procure our eggs and honey and the chickens and bees appear to have a very happy, appropriate chicken/bee life there. Im curious as to whether vegans wear wool. I personally have issues with wearing non natural fibers so I guess that would leave....cotton? hemp? Going all vegan is something I consider doing, but the task seems incredibly daunting. I do not doubt that one could easily cut out animal based foods but it would certainly take a lot of planning if one were to eat a whole and nutritionally complete diet.<snip> [Anti-vegetarian/pro-meat remarks deleted by moderator. Please, everyone, respect the nature of this list.] Im also curious if the vegans posting here were veg first and then gradually went vegan or if they just cut everything out at once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 Hi Heather, Your points are well taken, and I do not mean to sound snide in return, but sitting on leather car seats while gripping a leather-covered steering wheel are as offensive to me as chowing down on a bloody steak. I personally cannot equate a car with air conditioning and a CD player, with the equally " high end " perk of a leather interior. Please keep in mind that this is just mho. It is lovely that the farm where you buy organic eggs, dairy and honey appears to be treating their chickens, cows and bees humanely. Have the chickens been debeaked, to keep them from pecking each other? This is a common practice. Are the cows connected twice daily to automatic milking machines, which can cause mastitis of their udders? Mastitis is an infection common in dairy cows, and guess what - the US Food and Drug Administration allows a certain amount of pus and bacteria in the milk you buy. As for those " happy " bees, I wonder how it feels when they are smoked out of their hives so that their honey can be harvested? The book, " Diet for a New America " by John Robbins gives detailed, substantiated facts regarding all of the above. Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 > Putting the vegan label on a car seems sort of like putting a " Now Low Fa= t! " sticker on an onion. Werent they always vegan? Actually, the argument rather goes the other way - that just putting non-le= ather seats on cars doesn't make them vegan. There are so many things to do with = automobiles that are non-vegan - and we're not just talking about 'non-veg= an substances like anti-freeze, bio-diesel fuel, hydraulic brake fluid, and as= phalt binder—all of which contain animal ingredients' as one article I clicked in= to mentioned ;=) However, It must be said that no leather is, from a vegan poi= nt of view, better than leather. One step at a time. >I joke that I have stopped eating the animals but I cant seem to stop wear= ing their dead carcasses. But put that way it's not really very funny. You're a great advocate for a = leather-less existence! > As a vegetarian who eats eggs and dairy from organically raised, free ran= ge cows and chickens . . This is a vegetarian list, and that also includes vegans ;=) Some arguments= are bound to be lost, however, when those of us who still use eggs and dair= y try to justify it on the grounds of the happy cows and chooks in the farmya= rd. As for symbiosis, I don't see what the cows and chooks are getting out of i= t so I don't think 'symbiotic' could possibly describe my own relationship with th= e animals that provide that part of my diet. Just a thought. > Im curious as to whether vegans wear wool. No. >I personally have issues with wearing non natural fibers so I guess that would leave....cotton? hemp? Yup. >Going all vegan is something I consider doing, but the task seems incredib= ly daunting. I do not doubt that one could easily cut out animal based foods b= ut it would certainly take a lot of planning if one were to eat a whole and nutritionally complete diet. Not really. You recommend the PETA webpage - have a look there, for example. Not a problem nutritionally. Inconvenient at times, yes ;=) And if= you check out our Links you'll find pages to link to on veganism. Also, if you = check out our recipes you'll find lots of vegan recipes. Great food! > Im also curious if the vegans posting here were veg first and then gradua= lly >went vegan or if they just cut everything out at once. I'd like to bet you'd find both here ;=) If you really do want help and adv= ice about veganism, I am sure there are plenty of people here who would be pleased to point you in the right direction and answer questions. Arguments= , however, are best avoided - on some things there just can't be agreement an= d to argue *against* veganism to those who avoid all animal products is as offensive as suggesting that vegetarians eat meat. Best, Pat ;=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 Ah, Pat, you are always the voice of calm. You make wonderful points. My *personal* belief is you reach each " stage " of this journey (and it is a journey, like everything else in life) when the time is right. Sometimes we don't know the time is right; that's left to a higher power. Whether or not we take the step in the direction we're offered is our free choice. You are so right about cars -- and I say that living in a part of the U.S. where we are so dependent on the auto industry in so many ways. Everything is terribly spread out; one cannot really exist without transportation, particularly with children involved in myriad activities. Our economy is based largely on the oil industry. You get the idea ... I would love to one day live in a place where personal cars weren't necessary. But, on the other hand, I don't know if I could live in such close contact with my neighbors! I like living " out. " Take care. I'm off to pack and clean the house for my in-laws. pj Paula Johnson blkntan " He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. " - Anonymous - Pat 9/5/2004 10:10:20 AM Re: Vegan cars and question about wool > Putting the vegan label on a car seems sort of like putting a " Now Low Fa= t! " sticker on an onion. Werent they always vegan? Actually, the argument rather goes the other way - that just putting non-le= ather seats on cars doesn't make them vegan. There are so many things to do with = automobiles that are non-vegan - and we're not just talking about 'non-veg= an substances like anti-freeze, bio-diesel fuel, hydraulic brake fluid, and as= phalt binder—all of which contain animal ingredients' as one article I clicked in= to mentioned ;=) However, It must be said that no leather is, from a vegan poi= nt of view, better than leather. One step at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 First of all let me introduce myself since this is my first post here I'm 22 and a vegan college student in kentucky (yes i feel sorry for me too lol). Although i suppose some vegan things can be deep friend too hmmm. Anyway, I'm looking forward to meeting everyone and reading more messages! This one just caught my fancy I just wanted to say that in regards to the comment about living places without a car I'm guessing you mean places with good public transportation. I lived in europe for a year and I can tell you that they even have buses for those that live out in the country. You have to live pretty far out in the middle of no where for there to be no form of transportation for you. Typically by " no form of transportation " I just mean you would have to walk quite a ways to the bus stop not that there truly isn't anything. The buses just become more and more practical the bigger the city is but I lived in a city with about 200,000 people in it and including the surrounding communities (which were much smaller) and the bus system was impressive...they ran every 5-10minutes. I wish they had that here. I was so dissapointed when I got back! jen , " Paula Johnson " <blkntan@e...> wrote: > Ah, Pat, you are always the voice of calm. You make wonderful points. > > My *personal* belief is you reach each " stage " of this journey (and it is a journey, like everything else in life) when the time is right. Sometimes we don't know the time is right; that's left to a higher power. Whether or not we take the step in the direction we're offered is our free choice. > > You are so right about cars -- and I say that living in a part of the U.S. where we are so dependent on the auto industry in so many ways. Everything is terribly spread out; one cannot really exist without transportation, particularly with children involved in myriad activities. Our economy is based largely on the oil industry. You get the idea ... I would love to one day live in a place where personal cars weren't necessary. But, on the other hand, I don't know if I could live in such close contact with my neighbors! I like living " out. " > > Take care. I'm off to pack and clean the house for my in-laws. > > pj > > Paula Johnson > blkntan@e... > > " He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. > You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, > faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. > You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. " - Anonymous > > > - > Pat > > 9/5/2004 10:10:20 AM > Re: Vegan cars and question about wool > > > > Putting the vegan label on a car seems sort of like putting a " Now Low Fa= > t! " > sticker on an onion. Werent they always vegan? > > Actually, the argument rather goes the other way - that just putting non-le= > ather > seats on cars doesn't make them vegan. There are so many things to do with = > > automobiles that are non-vegan - and we're not just talking about 'non-veg= > an > substances like anti-freeze, bio-diesel fuel, hydraulic brake fluid, and as= > phalt > binder—all of which contain animal ingredients' as one article I clicked in= > to > mentioned ;=) However, It must be said that no leather is, from a vegan poi= > nt > of view, better than leather. One step at a time. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 Let's see, hmmm. Oh, yes, deep fried dill pickles -- a favorite at " southern " state fairs! Welcome! pj in Oklahoma Paula Johnson blkntan " He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. " - Anonymous - veganbuddhist8383 9/5/2004 1:20:10 PM Re: Vegan cars and question about wool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 Hello everyone, This is my first time posting, and I really don't have too much to say except, " hello " and that I am really enjoying the message board and will probably chirp in when I break out of the small " shy jacket " I wear from time to time! My husband and I are both vegan and I posted a picture of us on the group's website under the picture part. Thanks for inviting me to your group and I look forward to talking to you all! All the best, Valerie Paula Johnson <blkntan wrote: Let's see, hmmm. Oh, yes, deep fried dill pickles -- a favorite at " southern " state fairs! Welcome! pj in Oklahoma Paula Johnson blkntan " He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion. " - Anonymous - veganbuddhist8383 9/5/2004 1:20:10 PM Re: Vegan cars and question about wool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 Hi everyone I'm living a vegan lifestyle (not wearing ANY animal products at all except cat hairs by accident) but eating vegetarian, mainly because I 'inherited' chickens with this house, and heard about a lady whose husband had some but she couldn't care for them anymore, so I ended up with those, and then my nurse had some mean ducks she didn't want... After raising the cholesterol levels of everyone we knew in the entire county by giving away all those countless eggs the feathered friends just would not quit laying, no one would take anymore; it wasn't healthy for my other rescues to eat so many of them, either, so rather than have their efforts go to waste, I started eating the eggs myself, destroying my vegan diet thereby. So in my situation, these birds were living before I took them in, and in doing so, I allow them to have as happy a life as they possibly can, to live free and die well into old age; they are constrained only to protect them from predators. Not all people who have poultry and eat eggs are the winged demons some make us out to be. I didn't even eat eggs before these birds came along, and I'm not raising them for eggs or meat or anything else; no one else wanted them. If it so happened that I took in some unwanted sheep, I'd have to shear them for their own good in these hot summers; being frugal, I'd probably end up making clothes out of their wool, and, in the absence of a market for it, I'd probably end up wearing wool myself. I rescued an unwanted goat also. If she'd been a nanny rather than a doe, I'd probably make cheese out of her milk. As it is, she's just an odd sort of companion animal to us. We actually had to buy another goat doe to keep her company, since they're herd animals. We have no plans to get them mated or to produce anything from them. My Adventures in the American Wilderness http://www.judynweena.blogspot.com Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Judy, I just wanted to say i definitely agree with you!!! I just wish I was in the place to have chickens or a goat or any kind of farm animal to give a GOOD home to like you are to your animals! Morgan - Judy N Weena Veg Slimming Monday, September 06, 2004 3:27 PM Re: Vegan cars and question about wool Hi everyone I'm living a vegan lifestyle (not wearing ANY animal products at all except cat hairs by accident) but eating vegetarian, mainly because I 'inherited' chickens with this house, and heard about a lady whose husband had some but she couldn't care for them anymore, so I ended up with those, and then my nurse had some mean ducks she didn't want... After raising the cholesterol levels of everyone we knew in the entire county by giving away all those countless eggs the feathered friends just would not quit laying, no one would take anymore; it wasn't healthy for my other rescues to eat so many of them, either, so rather than have their efforts go to waste, I started eating the eggs myself, destroying my vegan diet thereby. So in my situation, these birds were living before I took them in, and in doing so, I allow them to have as happy a life as they possibly can, to live free and die well into old age; they are constrained only to protect them from predators. Not all people who have poultry and eat eggs are the winged demons some make us out to be. I didn't even eat eggs before these birds came along, and I'm not raising them for eggs or meat or anything else; no one else wanted them. If it so happened that I took in some unwanted sheep, I'd have to shear them for their own good in these hot summers; being frugal, I'd probably end up making clothes out of their wool, and, in the absence of a market for it, I'd probably end up wearing wool myself. I rescued an unwanted goat also. If she'd been a nanny rather than a doe, I'd probably make cheese out of her milk. As it is, she's just an odd sort of companion animal to us. We actually had to buy another goat doe to keep her company, since they're herd animals. We have no plans to get them mated or to produce anything from them. My Adventures in the American Wilderness http://www.judynweena.blogspot.com Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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