Guest guest Posted September 11, 2005 Report Share Posted September 11, 2005 Please don't take what I wrote so personal. I didn't directly call your opinion about the consumption of fish oil nitpicking, and I intended to not do that. I just said that such an opinion is perceived as nitpicking - " When vegetarians and vegans seem to nitpick over things like fish oil... " I personally shun fish oil because I don't want to be a part of harming fish, recognizing them as beings who have feelings, so I agree with you at least part of the way. My intent was to find a way of talking about such issues in a way that doesn't deter people from adopting a more plant-based diet and making progress towards becoming more vegan. I've been a vegetarian for 32 years and a vegan, except for honey and bee pollen, for 23 years, I've been outspoken in favor of vegetarianism and veganism for all that time, and I will continue to be outspoken in its favor, as I believe it is so very very important. My experience in advocacy, and in training, counseling, tutoring, etc., which work on principles similar to advocacy, is that positive reinforcement works wonders, and adjusting the message is sometimes necessary to get people to try what you want them to do. There is certainly a place for expressing higher expectations, but any salesperson can tell you that you first need a " yes " from a person to make him or her a customer, and once you hit a " no " you're probably done. To get someone from the standard American diet to where we are rejecting even fish oil takes either a series of yeses or one big yes. It's so hard to get a big yes compared to getting a bunch of smaller yeses. I think a definition of veganism that requires one big yes harms more fish than a definition based on fuzzy logic would..... , kleelibby@w... wrote: > Dear vgan_spryt_guy, > It is not your right to negate my opinion about the consumption of fish oil, by calling it " negative nitpicking about relatively minor issues " . > Karen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 I responding to several posts. Fish is NOT VEGETARIAN. End of discussion. It is NOT nitpicking to state that people who eat animal flesh are not vegetarians. It is simply a definition. We can " embrace " the pescaterians with peace as people who are starting out on a path TOWARDS vegetarianism, but let's not call them vegetarians. I am sure that we all have carnivores in our lives who we also embrace this way. Pat, I do think it is important to at least mention the need for healthy oils, slimming recipe group or not. The ultimate vegan nutrition expert, Dr. Michael Greger, MD (http://www.veganmd.com) is telling all vegetarians, actually everyone, to supplement with omega-3 fatty acids. (We are talking about a fraction of a teaspoon here, not an amount that would affect anyone's weight.) We really need to have good fats in our diet, in small amounts. More than that, we need a good balance of essential fatty acids - omega 3's, 6's, 9's. Most people get too much omega 6 from vegetable oils and processed foods. That is why omega 3's are emphasized. In my own case, I don't like ground flax seeds on everything, so I need to resort to a supplement. I go out of my way to buy any supplements I take in veggie caps. There are a few prescription drugs where I have less choice. I just do the best I can do. from Maida Citizens for Pets in Condos, http://www.petsincondos.org South Florida Vegetarian Events, http://www.soflavegevents.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2005 Report Share Posted September 12, 2005 Hi Maida! > Fish is NOT VEGETARIAN. End of discussion. It is NOT nitpicking to > state that people who eat animal flesh are not vegetarians. It is > simply a definition. We can " embrace " the pescaterians with peace as > people who are starting out on a path TOWARDS vegetarianism, but let's > not call them vegetarians. I am sure that we all have carnivores in our > lives who we also embrace this way. Agreed ;=) Great minds and all that stuff. > Pat, I do think it is important to at least mention the need for healthy > oils, slimming recipe group or not. Definitely - and I should have done so in the same breath that brought forth the chuckle over taking so much time to discuss oils on a low-fat list (I still get a smile from it!). This list is *low* fat not *no* fat (and even no-fatters recognize the need for some fats). Get your fatty acids, boys n girls ;=) I certainly make sure I do! > I go out of my way to buy any supplements I take in veggie caps. There > are a few prescription drugs where I have less choice. I just do the > best I can do. Don't we all! Thanks, Maida ;=) Best love, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 This doesn't have anything to do with slimming but I just thought that I'd share something cute on this subject from my little niece. She has been an ovo/lacto vegetarian since conception. A couple of years ago (she was 4 at the time) we were having lunch at a diner and she looked at my chicken burger (I was just starting to cut red meat out of my diet at the time) and she asked me why I ate animals. I told her that I was trying to stop and that I didn't eat cows or pigs anymore. Then she told me with her all forgiving 4 year old attitude, " Oh that's good! So now you're a half vegetarian! " She figured that was better than nothing. Kids....gotta love 'em. Stef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2005 Report Share Posted September 13, 2005 >Then she told me with her all forgiving 4 year old > attitude, " Oh that's good! So now you're a half vegetarian! " She > figured that was better than nothing. Kids....gotta love 'em. Adorable! LOL I guess you could try to teach her 'semi' vegetarian but she might have wondered what highway vehicles had to do with it . . . luv, pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2005 Report Share Posted September 15, 2005 A very nice story. Your niece's statement is a perfect fuzzy logic statement. Any quantification of the degree of truthfulness of a notion is usually an estimate. " Half " is a fair estimate. Our ability to use fuzzy logic is innate. But there is also something special about the perception of people who are raised vegan, vegetarian or near vegetarian. Some Mormon patriarchs of about a hundred years ago called for a " Daniel Generation, " where a whole generation of youth are raised as vegetarians and are expected to have the health and wisdom like Daniel and the other youths who refused meat while under rule of the Persian empire - such a generation of youths would save the world. " Indigo children " are said to thrive with a vegetarian or near vegetarian diet by various sources.... Peace, Tom , " steffdav46 " <steffdav46> wrote: > This doesn't have anything to do with slimming but I just thought > that I'd share something cute on this subject from my little niece. > She has been an ovo/lacto vegetarian since conception. A couple of > years ago (she was 4 at the time) we were having lunch at a diner and > she looked at my chicken burger (I was just starting to cut red meat > out of my diet at the time) and she asked me why I ate animals. I told > her that I was trying to stop and that I didn't eat cows or pigs > anymore. Then she told me with her all forgiving 4 year old > attitude, " Oh that's good! So now you're a half vegetarian! " She > figured that was better than nothing. Kids....gotta love 'em. > Stef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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