OT - The definition of vegetarianism/veganism

[Guest guest]

> A very nice story. Your niece's statement is a perfect fuzzy logic

> statement.

 

Give the kid a break, my friend - she was only four! But yes, a very very nice

story. I'm going to adopt her, in imagination, as my very own niece (I have only

nephews and grand-nephews. and they eat meat.)

 

>. . .there is also something special

> about the perception of people who are raised vegan, vegetarian or

> near vegetarian. Some Mormon patriarchs of about a hundred years ago

> called for a " Daniel Generation, " where a whole generation of youth

> are raised as vegetarians and are expected to have the health and

> wisdom like Daniel and the other youths who refused meat while under

> rule of the Persian empire - such a generation of youths would save

> the world.

 

More fuzzy logic, you mean? Er, just as a matter of curiosity, is this in favour

of

or against vegetarianism??? Sounds kinda scary to me, and I've been veggie

for ages! Maybe best if we skip arguments for and against vegetarianism

based on religion, superstition, etc., for fear we might inadvertently turn

rational minds off us all. (We skip religion and politics on this list - always

a

danger - and if you wonder what this has to do with politics, cast your mind

back some 70 years.)

 

Entirely my own work / my own opinion / my own work / my own opinion . . .

 

> " Indigo children " are said to thrive with a vegetarian or

> near vegetarian diet by various sources....

 

ALL children, actually. Regardless of colour. Not my own work.

 

Pat

[Guest guest]

, " veggiehound "

<veggiehound> wrote:

>

> > A very nice story. Your niece's statement is a perfect fuzzy

logic statement.

> Give the kid a break, my friend - she was only four!

 

Yes, only four, and she's speaking perfect fuzzy logic, because it's

innate.

 

> >. . .there is also something special about the perception of

people who are raised vegan, vegetarian or near vegetarian. Some

Mormon patriarchs of about a hundred years ago called for a " Daniel

Generation, " where a whole generation of youth are raised as

vegetarians and are expected to have the health and wisdom like

Daniel and the other youths who refused meat while under rule of the

Persian empire - such a generation of youths would save the world.

> More fuzzy logic, you mean? Er, just as a matter of curiosity, is

this in favour of or against vegetarianism??? Sounds kinda scary to

me, and I've been veggie for ages! Maybe best if we skip arguments

for and against vegetarianism based on religion, superstition, etc.,

for fear we might inadvertently turn rational minds off us all. (We

skip religion and politics on this list - always a danger - and if

you wonder what this has to do with politics, cast your mind back

some 70 years.)

 

I wasn't advocating any particular religious view – I am not Mormon,

Christian or Jewish, for example - but that story about Daniel is

very clearly in favor of vegetarianism. It comes out of an amazing

time in history, the 6th century BC, which some historians refer to

as one of the highest points in human history. There was the

foundation of Taoism, Buddhism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism, Pythagoras

and some other Greek wise guys, and you had the Israeli prophets,

including Daniel. While some were pacifist - there is one Taoist

story about Lao Tzu leaving because of militarism - and some were

militaristic - Zoroastrianism was the state religion of the Persian

Empire - and while some were egalitarian - women could be monks in

Pythagoras' intentional community according to some - and some were

patriarchal - some of the Israeli prophets, for example - they all

had two things in common: Their followers were characterized by the

wearing of simple linen garments, and they all were vegetarian. So

you had this vegetarian thing going on across Asia, Europe, and

Africa. As vegetarians, we have this as a part of our heritage.

You'll find vegetarians disproportionately represented in any list

of the most influential people of history...

 

You seem to be confusing fuzzy logic with modes of thinking like

superstitious thinking, and you're not the first to do so. Fuzzy

logic is a rational thinking process which has been formalized, and

this is allowing many of the new strategies in advancing artificial

intelligence and technology, allowing things like washing machines

which decide how much water and all to get clothes the optimal clean

with the minimum of waste. The Japanese, who have ancient traditions

which see things like imperfection in perfection, are making strides

in this area and leaving the West behind – the West which has made

two value logic dogma and can't get over it.

 

> > " Indigo children " are said to thrive with a vegetarian or near

vegetarian diet by various sources....

> ALL children, actually. Regardless of colour.

 

Yes, I would agree with that. The notion of " indigo children " isn't

from a tradition I belong to or would advocate. I only know about

this idea because of the James Twyman, Neale Donald Walsch, Stephen

Simon film that was filmed here in Ashland, Oregon. I find it

interesting, however, how they sound like the Daniel Generation that

the Mormon patriarchs envisioned. By the way, indigo children aren't

any particular color. They're all around the world, from

every " race " of humanity.

 

And I would say, if there is truly an increasing phenomenon which is

being called indigo children, it is because vegetarianism has become

more widespread. And I'm all for this. I am an activist, have been

for decades, with my veganism and vegetarianism always being a part

of my advocacy. Most of the time, things look pretty grim. The idea

of a Daniel Generation or indigo children is one of the most hopeful

things I see for the world.....

Peace,

Tom

[Guest guest]

> Yes, only four, and she's speaking perfect fuzzy logic, because it's

> innate.

 

Innate? Not learned?? Some assumption.

 

> I wasn't advocating any particular religious view . . .all

> had two things in common: Their followers were characterized by . . .and

they all were vegetarian. So

> you had this vegetarian thing going on across Asia, Europe, and

> Africa. . . we have this as a part of our heritage.

> You'll find vegetarians disproportionately represented in any list

> of the most influential people of history...

 

Preaching to the choir, Tom ;=) How'd we get into this here???

 

> You seem to be confusing fuzzy logic with modes of thinking like

> superstitious thinking, and you're not the first to do so.

 

No. Not. And we don't all embrace western modes of thought. (And, btw,

please don't condescend.)

 

>By the way, indigo children aren't

> any particular color. They're all around the world, from

> every " race " of humanity.

 

Sigggh. Again, an attempt to lighten up. Indigo is a colour - get it??? Race

never entered my mind. But all this does rather remind me . . . .

 

Okay. Let's try to draw a line under this, okay? I'm sure everyone is weary of

this discussion which is definitely OT here. Apologies to all.

 

Best love, Pat

[Guest guest]

" vgan_spryt_guy " antipreophogistiii said, " that story about

Daniel is very clearly in favor of vegetarianism. It comes out of an

amazing

time in history, the 6th century BC, which some historians refer to

as one of the highest points in human history. There was the

foundation of Taoism, Buddhism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism, Pythagoras

and some other Greek wise guys, and you had the Israeli prophets,

including Daniel. "

 

My husband follows something called the Nazerite. It comes from the

Bible, Book of Numbers, chapter 6. His cartoon series is based on that.

See http://www.MessengerMan.com. Daniel was a Nazir. So was Sampson,

John the Baptist, and so was Jesus when he was in the wilderness. The

third rule of the Rite of the Nazir says you shall not go near a dead

body, which some Rabbis interpret to mean don't eat dead animals. You

might go further and say you should have a live food diet (raw vegan).

This diet results in higher consciousness.

 

from Maida

Citizens for Pets in Condos, http://www.petsincondos.org

South Florida Vegetarian Events, http://www.soflavegevents.net

[Guest guest]

>> " that story about Daniel . . .

 

> Daniel was a Nazir. So was . . .

 

Okay, guys, do as you will. I'm flying off to join the Pastafarians.

 

pat - veggiehound - persona non pasta