RE: [SouthBayVeggies] Seeking Vegan friendly doctor

[Guest guest]

I think your post should be titled " seeking normal doctor " . You must have

lucked out. I've seen many doctors in California in my life and never met

anyone who could possibly say such things as she told you. Right now I go

to Palo Alto Medical Foundation and El Camino Medical Group, they have

various locations in the South Bay and all the doctors there are very good,

and I can't imagine any of them tell me I had to eat steak. That said I do

know that strictly vegan diet lacks B-12, so vegans take this in some

supplement form. Any vegan correct me on that if I am wrong. Mark

 

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of Michelle

Wednesday, May 27, 2009 3:56 PM

 

[southBayVeggies] Seeking Vegan friendly doctor

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi, I'm sorry if this is a repeat topic. (also posted in SFBaveg)

 

I've been vegan for about 3 years now, and I just got back from my (omni)

doctor appointment and I'm mortified. She wants me to eat whey protein and

steak! I had a full physical and all my blood and cholesterol levels are

within normal range, but she feels that because I am vegan that I am somehow

more deficient B12, Folic acid and Protein (of course). She is Indian, and

her mother is vegetarian, so I thought she would be more open and

knowledgeable about the topic, however, I think her opinions are set as a

meat eater. She's even against eating nuts!

 

Before I continue on with all that she has prescribed to enrich my diet with

more protein, B12 and folic acid, I'd like to get a second opinion because I

believe she is wrong. I am very careful with my diet, I make sure its

balanced and healthy, and don't want to be taking things I don't feel are

necessary, especially if they aren't vegan.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

i recomend my friend Elizabeth Korza but she is in Berkeley, not south

bay. www.berkeley-naturopathic.com/

 

phil

 

philip gelb

phil

http://philipgelb.com

http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood

http://myspace.com/philipgelb

 

On May 27, 2009, at 3:56 PM, Michelle wrote:

 

>

>

> Hi, I'm sorry if this is a repeat topic. (also posted in SFBaveg)

>

> I've been vegan for about 3 years now, and I just got back from my

> (omni) doctor appointment and I'm mortified. She wants me to eat

> whey protein and steak! I had a full physical and all my blood and

> cholesterol levels are within normal range, but she feels that

> because I am vegan that I am somehow more deficient B12, Folic acid

> and Protein (of course). She is Indian, and her mother is

> vegetarian, so I thought she would be more open and knowledgeable

> about the topic, however, I think her opinions are set as a meat

> eater. She's even against eating nuts!

>

> Before I continue on with all that she has prescribed to enrich my

> diet with more protein, B12 and folic acid, I'd like to get a second

> opinion because I believe she is wrong. I am very careful with my

> diet, I make sure its balanced and healthy, and don't want to be

> taking things I don't feel are necessary, especially if they aren't

> vegan.

>

> So if anyone out there knows of a vegan friendly doctor, preferably

> in the South Bay, please let me know. I am willing to travel, but do

> prefer someone close by if possible. Thanks everyone!

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I second the excellent advice about B12 and Omega 3. Both are almost

non-existent in vegan diets without supplementation.

 

As for the protein, I also agree that total protein deficiency is

unlikely. It's very rare in the United States to see protein-energy

malnutrition (PEM). However, it's possible to be short on specific

amino acids that are not readily found in plants.

 

Folic acid is *extremely* important for women of childbearing age. A

deficiency during the first trimester of pregnancy can cause neural

tube defects (spina bifida or anencephaly). Folic acid deficiencies

can take months to resolve, so it's important not to be deficient at

conception.

 

Nuts are a *great* source of protein and unsaturated fats.

Consumption of nuts should only be restricted for people on reducing

diets.

 

IGNORE this doctor and find an RD who has experience with vegan

diets. Physicans know very little about nutrition. :-) The American

Dietetic Association has a great website, and the ADA is very veg

friendly.

 

http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/home_fanp_consumer_ENU_HTML.htm

 

 

-Steve

 

 

On May 28, 2009, at 12:05 AM, yarrow wrote:

 

>

>

> Yes, you need to be conscientious about getting vitamin b12. See

> http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/everyvegan/

> The other supplement that's recommended for vegans is omega-3s -- you

> can get ground flaxseed at Trader Joe's and eat a tablespoon or two a

> day.

>

> No, I very much doubt that you need more protein from any source,

> unless you are subsisting on junk food, alcohol, or only fruits. If

> you're eating real food and

> getting enough calories, you're getting enough (probably excess)

> protein.

>

> I can't imagine why she's against eating nuts. That's nuts!

>

> At 10:56 PM +0000 5/27/09, Michelle wrote:

> I've been vegan for about 3 years now, and I just got back from my

> (omni) doctor appointment and I'm mortified. She wants me to eat whey

> protein and steak! I had a full physical and all my blood and

> cholesterol levels are within normal range, but she feels that

> because I am vegan that I am somehow more deficient B12, Folic acid

> and Protein (of course). She is Indian, and her mother is vegetarian,

> so I thought she would be more open and knowledgeable about the

> topic, however, I think her opinions are set as a meat eater. She's

> even against eating nuts!

>

> Before I continue on with all that she has prescribed to enrich my

> diet with more protein, B12 and folic acid, I'd like to get a second

> opinion because I believe she is wrong. I am very careful with my

> diet, I make sure its balanced and healthy, and don't want to be

> taking things I don't feel are necessary, especially if they aren't

> vegan.

>

> So if anyone out there knows of a vegan friendly doctor, preferably

> in the South Bay, please let me know. I am willing to travel, but do

> prefer someone close by if possible. Thanks everyone!

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, you need to be conscientious about getting vitamin b12. See

http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/everyvegan/

The other supplement that's recommended for vegans is omega-3s -- you

can get ground flaxseed at Trader Joe's and eat a tablespoon or two a

day.

 

No, I very much doubt that you need more protein from any source,

unless you are subsisting on junk food, alcohol, or only fruits. If

you're eating real food and

getting enough calories, you're getting enough (probably excess) protein.

 

I can't imagine why she's against eating nuts. That's nuts!

 

 

At 10:56 PM +0000 5/27/09, Michelle wrote:

I've been vegan for about 3 years now, and I just got back from my

(omni) doctor appointment and I'm mortified. She wants me to eat whey

protein and steak! I had a full physical and all my blood and

cholesterol levels are within normal range, but she feels that

because I am vegan that I am somehow more deficient B12, Folic acid

and Protein (of course). She is Indian, and her mother is vegetarian,

so I thought she would be more open and knowledgeable about the

topic, however, I think her opinions are set as a meat eater. She's

even against eating nuts!

 

Before I continue on with all that she has prescribed to enrich my

diet with more protein, B12 and folic acid, I'd like to get a second

opinion because I believe she is wrong. I am very careful with my

diet, I make sure its balanced and healthy, and don't want to be

taking things I don't feel are necessary, especially if they aren't

vegan.

 

So if anyone out there knows of a vegan friendly doctor, preferably

in the South Bay, please let me know. I am willing to travel, but do

prefer someone close by if possible. Thanks everyone!

[Guest guest]

My doctor is Indian and vegetarian (I think) and she thinks it's great that I'm

vegan ('though she probably thinks I should lose a few pounds). Anyway, this is

my doctor (a " normal " doctor as Mark would say):

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=bommakanti++san+jose,+ca & latlng=652876165315396168\

5 & ei=UZoeStCxBZ7etAO9_qmKCQ

 

--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Michelle <soychick wrote:

> Michelle <soychick

> Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 6:56 PM

>

> She is Indian, and her mother is

> vegetarian, so I thought she would be more open  and

> knowledgeable about the topic, however, I think her opinions

> are set as a meat eater.  She's even against eating

> nuts!

>

> So if anyone out there knows of a vegan friendly doctor,

> preferably in the South Bay, please let me know.  I am

> willing to travel, but do prefer someone close by if

> possible.  Thanks everyone!

[Guest guest]

>As for the protein, I also agree that total protein deficiency is

unlikely. It's very rare in the United States to see protein-energy

malnutrition (PEM). However, it's possible to be short on specific

amino acids that are not readily found in plants.

 

 

 

More about proteins: I use a nutrition software, that knows about the

recommended daily allowances of all nutrients, including amino-acids, and I

check for " completeness " of the protein, which is that any one amino-acid

can only be utilized if it is consumed with others. I am not completely

vegan, but " mostly " , there are weeks where I go completely vegan.

 

I found, that if I get at least 60 grams of protein a day from various plant

sources, and other nutrients are satisfied too, then the amino-acids

allowances and completeness are always satisfied automatically - never had a

case where they wouldn't. In other words, as long as you are consuming

recommended amounts of protein as a whole and other nutrients, which means

you are necessarily getting various sources of protein, then you don't have

to worry about specific amino-acids and completeness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

At 8:41 AM -0700 5/28/09, Mark Galeck wrote:

.....I found, that if I get at least 60 grams of protein a day from

various plant

sources, and other nutrients are satisfied too, then the amino-acids

allowances and completeness are always satisfied automatically - never had a

case where they wouldn't. In other words, as long as you are consuming

recommended amounts of protein as a whole and other nutrients, which means

you are necessarily getting various sources of protein, then you don't have

to worry about specific amino-acids and completeness.

>>

 

And that's essentially what Frances Moore Lappe said in the 10th?

anniversary edition of her book Diet for a Small Planet. The original

version made " protein complementarity " a household word of sorts, but

in later editions she said further research revealed it may be

something to consider in laboratory situations, but in the real world

it's just not an issue.

 

Unfortunately, the fact that plant-based foods provide complete

protein has not quite reached journalists or nutritionists, even all

these years later. They're still clinging to that old dog-eared

original version of DSP and its long-debunked nutrition caveats. It's

unusual to see an article about vegans in the popular press that

doesn't warn people how hard it is to get " complete " proteins and

" enough " protein if they eat only plant-based foods.

 

/end rant/

 

Plant-based foods provide complete proteins.

 

Vegans get enough protein if they're eating real food.

 

It's easy eating green.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> Unfortunately, the fact that plant-based foods provide complete

> protein has not quite reached journalists or nutritionists, even all

> these years later. They're still clinging to that old dog-eared

> original version of DSP and its long-debunked nutrition caveats. It's

> unusual to see an article about vegans in the popular press that

> doesn't warn people how hard it is to get " complete " proteins and

> " enough " protein if they eat only plant-based foods.

>

> /end rant/

>

 

I'm going to disagree with one point that you make, even though I

agree with the spirit of everything you've written.

 

As you say, the protein combining crap from the 1970s is total bunk.

No need to get " complete " proteins at every meal.

 

 

> Plant-based foods provide complete proteins.

>

 

Here's my slight disagreement. Plant-based foods provide complete

proteins AS LONG AS vegans eat a variety of foods. That's probably

obvious to most people, but it's still worth repeating.

 

 

> Vegans get enough protein if they're eating real food.

>

> It's easy eating green.

>

 

 

Indeed.

 

If anyone needs scientific references for dealing with medical folks,

here are some references:

 

* Position of the American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of

Canada: Vegetarian diets.

Journal American Dietetic Assoc. 2003 Jun;103(6):748-65.

 

* Health effects of vegetarian and vegan diets.

Key TJ, Appleby PN, Rosell MS.

Proc Nutr Soc. 2006 Feb;65(1):35-41.

 

* Health effects of vegan diets.

Craig WJ.

Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 May;89(5):1627S-1633S.

 

* Should dairy be recommended as part of a healthy vegetarian diet?

Counterpoint.

Lanou AJ.

Am J Clin Nutr. 2009 May;89(5):1638S-1642S.

 

 

These are all available in Pubmed ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/

pubmed/ )

[Guest guest]

>Here's my slight disagreement. Plant-based foods provide complete

proteins AS LONG AS vegans eat a variety of foods. That's probably

obvious to most people, but it's still worth repeating.

 

I think the easiest way for a vegan to get the recommended “completeness” of

the protein, is to take soy protein powder. For me, it would be enough to

take about 1 ½ ounce every day, or about 40 grams, to get all the

recommended allowances of all the amino-acids in the right proportions, in

other words, the “complete” protein requirement. (However, this would only

be about 25 grams of protein as a whole, not enough, so one still needs more

any-kind-of protein). That’s for me, a male, for females, probably a little

bit less. Soy protein powder, the cheapest way is to get by mail order, 40

pounds at about 4 dollars a pound, or (similar price) at some cheap bulk

stores if you are close to one of them, Milk Pail market, or Rainbow Grocery

in SF.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

At 11:42 PM -0700 5/28/09, Steven Cogorno wrote:

I'm going to disagree with one point that you make, even though I

agree with the spirit of everything you've written.

 

As you say, the protein combining crap from the 1970s is total bunk.

No need to get " complete " proteins at every meal.

 

> Plant-based foods provide complete proteins.

>

 

Here's my slight disagreement. Plant-based foods provide complete

proteins AS LONG AS vegans eat a variety of foods. That's probably

obvious to most people, but it's still worth repeating.

>>

 

No, protein is simply not an issue for vegans. Many plant foods

provide complete protein, even if they are the only food eaten, as

long as enough calories are consumed of wholesome foods (not junk or

alcohol).

 

See the tables in the following article showing amino acid profiles

of starches and vegetables:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/apr/dairy.htm

 

" Many investigators have measured the capacity of plant foods to

satisfy protein needs. Their findings show that children and adults

thrive on diets based on single or combined starches, and grow

healthy and strong. Furthermore, no improvement has been found from

mixing plant foods or supplementing them with amino acid mixtures to

make the combined amino acid pattern look more like that of flesh,

milk, or eggs. In fact, supplementing a food with an amino acid in

order to conform to a contrived reference standard can create amino

acid imbalances. "

 

The reason for eating a variety of whole foods is not to get protein,

it's to get all the vitamins and minerals, as well as to get the

valuable phytonutrients that only plant foods provide.