Guest guest Posted July 23, 2002 Report Share Posted July 23, 2002 I have only just joined this group recently. I have been reading this post with interest and reading all the various points of view. I feel myself whatever the reasons regarding someone taking their own life, how very sad to think that the person involved apparently felt they had no one to turn to. Geraldine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2002 Report Share Posted July 23, 2002 That is my thought too! Surely his fellow vegans could have been more supportive of him when he was in need? It feels like the vegan community has failed when this happens. But I know first hand how they can abandon one of their own. In my case I had loads of vegan friends but it was when I had my first child that I was abandoned by the vegan friends I was expecting to be there as my support network, of aunties and uncles to my kids. Lesley cav2was7 [geraldine.mccarthy]23 July 2002 17:22 Subject: re: Wilfred Crone's DeathI have only just joined this group recently. I have been reading this post with interest and reading all the various points of view.I feel myself whatever the reasons regarding someone taking their own life, how very sad to think that the person involved apparently felt they had no one to turn to.GeraldineTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2002 Report Share Posted July 23, 2002 Hi Lesley You mention being abandoned by your vegan friends when you had children so many times in your posts, its quite a regular theme. Is this something that has affected you quite deeply? Just wondering. Janey x But I know first hand how they can abandon one of their own. In my case I had loads of vegan friends but it was when I had my first child that I was abandoned by the vegan friends I was expecting to be there as my support network, of aunties and uncles to my kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2002 Report Share Posted July 23, 2002 It did affect me deeply, since we were so close to certain people in a vegan group we were in, of course I naturally expected these friends without kids to be there to take the place of extended family as we live so far from our real family. These were people we were close to and met up with at walks and meetings and restaurant visits several times a month, but when I was exhausted and depressed after my son was born because I was so cut off from my friends, none of them offered to babysit, or even phoned or visited. They never even bothered with me when I was in hospital after the birth. I could not believe how they treated me. If the tables were turned I would not have ignored one of them like that after having a child, it would have been unthinkable. I would have made sure I was there for them. Paul was not so surprised at their actions but I thought I had them all lined up as aunties and uncles for the kids, and it has made me a very anxious and depressed mother, although I have Paul, I fear very much having no support if widowed or him having no support if I died and either of us was left alone to raise the kids. It's hard enough for just the two of us without support most of the time. I used to be very bubbly and cheerful believe it or not! I thought I had friends before having kids (I was wrong they were not real friends), so I didn't have these fears. My fears became even worse after having Lucy, because we had just started meeting once a month at the Chai with a few other local veggies and vegans, and they turned out like the rest and did not give a damn about lifting a finger to help when I was having a bad time in pregnancy. We mostly dropped out of the meals after Lucy was born. I had not been able to find one person from this crowd who would be willing to babysit even before we had Lucy. Paul had to take the kids to stay with his mother (she is nearly 80 but very good for her age) and his brother who lives with his mother for a few days, then he came back to be with me for the birth and then went back for the kids. My parents helped a bit with them while they were at Paul's mum's place. I would have preferred some local veggie or vegan friends to have helped with taking care of them but there was no-one, so we had to send them away. Compare this to the fact that I had phoned one old vegan lady who had been to some of the local meals, and I offered to help when I heard she had had a stroke, and likewise offered help to another who had cancer. Neither of them took me up on anything but they knew without a shadow of a doubt that the offer was there, the old lady had two daughters taking care of her, so she didn't need me. So I don't understand why some of the young and able bodied veggie/vegan people without kids would not help those in need of support. Some people think I expect too much but I've never expected that which I would not have been prepared to give if the tables were turned. My experience is the reason why I warn aspiring mums to be sure of the true character of their friends. Lesley Janey [janey]23 July 2002 18:18 Subject: Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death Hi Lesley You mention being abandoned by your vegan friends when you had children so many times in your posts, its quite a regular theme. Is this something that has affected you quite deeply? Just wondering. Janey x But I know first hand how they can abandon one of their own. In my case I had loads of vegan friends but it was when I had my first child that I was abandoned by the vegan friends I was expecting to be there as my support network, of aunties and uncles to my kids.To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2002 Report Share Posted July 23, 2002 i guess some folks just don't like kids.... my partner happens to love the lil rugrats, and is always offerin to babysit the critters.... fraggle " Lesley Dove " <Lesley wrote: > >It did affect me deeply, since we were so close to certain people in a vegan >group we were in, of course I naturally expected these friends without kids >to be there to take the place of extended family as we live so far from our >real family. These were people we were close to and met up with at walks and >meetings and restaurant visits several times a month, but when I was >exhausted and depressed after my son was born because I was so cut off from >my friends, none of them offered to babysit, or even phoned or visited. They >never even bothered with me when I was in hospital after the birth. I could >not believe how they treated me. If the tables were turned I would not have >ignored one of them like that after having a child, it would have been >unthinkable. I would have made sure I was there for them. Paul was not so >surprised at their actions but I thought I had them all lined up as aunties >and uncles for the kids, and it has made me a very anxious and depressed >mother, although I have Paul, I fear very much having no support if widowed >or him having no support if I died and either of us was left alone to raise >the kids. It's hard enough for just the two of us without support most of >the time. I used to be very bubbly and cheerful believe it or not! > >I thought I had friends before having kids (I was wrong they were not real >friends), so I didn't have these fears. My fears became even worse after >having Lucy, because we had just started meeting once a month at the Chai >with a few other local veggies and vegans, and they turned out like the rest >and did not give a damn about lifting a finger to help when I was having a >bad time in pregnancy. We mostly dropped out of the meals after Lucy was >born. I had not been able to find one person from this crowd who would be >willing to babysit even before we had Lucy. Paul had to take the kids to >stay with his mother (she is nearly 80 but very good for her age) and his >brother who lives with his mother for a few days, then he came back to be >with me for the birth and then went back for the kids. My parents helped a >bit with them while they were at Paul's mum's place. I would have preferred >some local veggie or vegan friends to have helped with taking care of them >but there was no-one, so we had to send them away. Compare this to the fact >that I had phoned one old vegan lady who had been to some of the local >meals, and I offered to help when I heard she had had a stroke, and likewise >offered help to another who had cancer. Neither of them took me up on >anything but they knew without a shadow of a doubt that the offer was there, >the old lady had two daughters taking care of her, so she didn't need me. So >I don't understand why some of the young and able bodied veggie/vegan people >without kids would not help those in need of support. > >Some people think I expect too much but I've never expected that which I >would not have been prepared to give if the tables were turned. > >My experience is the reason why I warn aspiring mums to be sure of the true >character of their friends. > >Lesley > > > > Janey [janey] > 23 July 2002 18:18 > > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death > > > Hi Lesley > > You mention being abandoned by your vegan friends when you had children so >many times in your posts, its quite a regular theme. Is this something that >has affected you quite deeply? Just wondering. > > Janey > x > > > But I know first hand how they can abandon one of their own. In my case >I had loads of vegan friends but it was when I had my first child that I was >abandoned by the vegan friends I was expecting to be there as my support >network, of aunties and uncles to my kids. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2002 Report Share Posted July 23, 2002 Lesley While I can see your point about helping, sometimes people have thought long and hard about their decision to commit suicide, and really do not want to be counselled by anyone. JO That is my thought too! Surely his fellow vegans could have been more supportive of him when he was in need? It feels like the vegan community has failed when this happens. But I know first hand how they can abandon one of their own. In my case I had loads of vegan friends but it was when I had my first child that I was abandoned by the vegan friends I was expecting to be there as my support network, of aunties and uncles to my kids. Lesley cav2was7 [geraldine.mccarthy]23 July 2002 17:22 Subject: re: Wilfred Crone's DeathI have only just joined this group recently. I have been reading this post with interest and reading all the various points of view.I feel myself whatever the reasons regarding someone taking their own life, how very sad to think that the person involved apparently felt they had no one to turn to.GeraldineTo send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2002 Report Share Posted July 23, 2002 Lesley I'm sorry to hear that you are so upset at what has happened. You sound like you are a very helpful person. Unfortunately not everyone is. It could be that the people without children did not realise how you felt when you weren't feeling well, or were shy with babies. Before I had my first baby I had only held one baby for about ten seconds, and it scared me no end. Maybe it was because they were so unsure of themselves that they didn't offer help. Anyway, I am sure that if you keep trying, you will eventually find friends who are not shy with babies/children, or other parents that you can sit for in turns. BBJo It did affect me deeply, since we were so close to certain people in a vegan group we were in, of course I naturally expected these friends without kids to be there to take the place of extended family as we live so far from our real family. These were people we were close to and met up with at walks and meetings and restaurant visits several times a month, but when I was exhausted and depressed after my son was born because I was so cut off from my friends, none of them offered to babysit, or even phoned or visited. They never even bothered with me when I was in hospital after the birth. I could not believe how they treated me. If the tables were turned I would not have ignored one of them like that after having a child, it would have been unthinkable. I would have made sure I was there for them. Paul was not so surprised at their actions but I thought I had them all lined up as aunties and uncles for the kids, and it has made me a very anxious and depressed mother, although I have Paul, I fear very much having no support if widowed or him having no support if I died and either of us was left alone to raise the kids. It's hard enough for just the two of us without support most of the time. I used to be very bubbly and cheerful believe it or not! I thought I had friends before having kids (I was wrong they were not real friends), so I didn't have these fears. My fears became even worse after having Lucy, because we had just started meeting once a month at the Chai with a few other local veggies and vegans, and they turned out like the rest and did not give a damn about lifting a finger to help when I was having a bad time in pregnancy. We mostly dropped out of the meals after Lucy was born. I had not been able to find one person from this crowd who would be willing to babysit even before we had Lucy. Paul had to take the kids to stay with his mother (she is nearly 80 but very good for her age) and his brother who lives with his mother for a few days, then he came back to be with me for the birth and then went back for the kids. My parents helped a bit with them while they were at Paul's mum's place. I would have preferred some local veggie or vegan friends to have helped with taking care of them but there was no-one, so we had to send them away. Compare this to the fact that I had phoned one old vegan lady who had been to some of the local meals, and I offered to help when I heard she had had a stroke, and likewise offered help to another who had cancer. Neither of them took me up on anything but they knew without a shadow of a doubt that the offer was there, the old lady had two daughters taking care of her, so she didn't need me. So I don't understand why some of the young and able bodied veggie/vegan people without kids would not help those in need of support. Some people think I expect too much but I've never expected that which I would not have been prepared to give if the tables were turned. My experience is the reason why I warn aspiring mums to be sure of the true character of their friends. Lesley Janey [janey]23 July 2002 18:18 Subject: Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death Hi Lesley You mention being abandoned by your vegan friends when you had children so many times in your posts, its quite a regular theme. Is this something that has affected you quite deeply? Just wondering. Janey x But I know first hand how they can abandon one of their own. In my case I had loads of vegan friends but it was when I had my first child that I was abandoned by the vegan friends I was expecting to be there as my support network, of aunties and uncles to my kids.To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2002 Report Share Posted July 23, 2002 Well I have already asked one or two other veggie and vegan mums in my area if they would be interested in exchange babysitting, and no-one was, even though some of them are in the same position as us without a babysitter. It's hard to understand why they won't do it as an arrangement where we help one another. Lesley Heartwork [Heartwork]23 July 2002 20:25 Subject: Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death Lesley I'm sorry to hear that you are so upset at what has happened. You sound like you are a very helpful person. Unfortunately not everyone is. It could be that the people without children did not realise how you felt when you weren't feeling well, or were shy with babies. Before I had my first baby I had only held one baby for about ten seconds, and it scared me no end. Maybe it was because they were so unsure of themselves that they didn't offer help. Anyway, I am sure that if you keep trying, you will eventually find friends who are not shy with babies/children, or other parents that you can sit for in turns. BBJo It did affect me deeply, since we were so close to certain people in a vegan group we were in, of course I naturally expected these friends without kids to be there to take the place of extended family as we live so far from our real family. These were people we were close to and met up with at walks and meetings and restaurant visits several times a month, but when I was exhausted and depressed after my son was born because I was so cut off from my friends, none of them offered to babysit, or even phoned or visited. They never even bothered with me when I was in hospital after the birth. I could not believe how they treated me. If the tables were turned I would not have ignored one of them like that after having a child, it would have been unthinkable. I would have made sure I was there for them. Paul was not so surprised at their actions but I thought I had them all lined up as aunties and uncles for the kids, and it has made me a very anxious and depressed mother, although I have Paul, I fear very much having no support if widowed or him having no support if I died and either of us was left alone to raise the kids. It's hard enough for just the two of us without support most of the time. I used to be very bubbly and cheerful believe it or not! I thought I had friends before having kids (I was wrong they were not real friends), so I didn't have these fears. My fears became even worse after having Lucy, because we had just started meeting once a month at the Chai with a few other local veggies and vegans, and they turned out like the rest and did not give a damn about lifting a finger to help when I was having a bad time in pregnancy. We mostly dropped out of the meals after Lucy was born. I had not been able to find one person from this crowd who would be willing to babysit even before we had Lucy. Paul had to take the kids to stay with his mother (she is nearly 80 but very good for her age) and his brother who lives with his mother for a few days, then he came back to be with me for the birth and then went back for the kids. My parents helped a bit with them while they were at Paul's mum's place. I would have preferred some local veggie or vegan friends to have helped with taking care of them but there was no-one, so we had to send them away. Compare this to the fact that I had phoned one old vegan lady who had been to some of the local meals, and I offered to help when I heard she had had a stroke, and likewise offered help to another who had cancer. Neither of them took me up on anything but they knew without a shadow of a doubt that the offer was there, the old lady had two daughters taking care of her, so she didn't need me. So I don't understand why some of the young and able bodied veggie/vegan people without kids would not help those in need of support. Some people think I expect too much but I've never expected that which I would not have been prepared to give if the tables were turned. My experience is the reason why I warn aspiring mums to be sure of the true character of their friends. Lesley Janey [janey]23 July 2002 18:18 Subject: Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death Hi Lesley You mention being abandoned by your vegan friends when you had children so many times in your posts, its quite a regular theme. Is this something that has affected you quite deeply? Just wondering. Janey x But I know first hand how they can abandon one of their own. In my case I had loads of vegan friends but it was when I had my first child that I was abandoned by the vegan friends I was expecting to be there as my support network, of aunties and uncles to my kids.To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2002 Report Share Posted July 23, 2002 I did a bit of babysitting before I had my own, when I was a teenager for some neighbours, can't understand why so many people won't do it for friends. I know I would have if I had had friends with kids. None of my friends ever said that they would be so unwilling to act as auntie and uncle figures before I had my son. I would have thought it would be an honour for them to have been asked to take on this role, I have no brothers or sisters, but I remember thinking before I had kids how much I would be delighted if I had been appointed as an auntie to a friend's child, and occasional babysitter. Lesley EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx]23 July 2002 19:58 Subject: RE: re: Wilfred Crone's Deathi guess some folks just don't like kids....my partner happens to love the lil rugrats, and is always offerin to babysit the critters....fraggle"Lesley Dove" <Lesley wrote:>>It did affect me deeply, since we were so close to certain people in a vegan>group we were in, of course I naturally expected these friends without kids>to be there to take the place of extended family as we live so far from our>real family. These were people we were close to and met up with at walks and>meetings and restaurant visits several times a month, but when I was>exhausted and depressed after my son was born because I was so cut off from>my friends, none of them offered to babysit, or even phoned or visited. They>never even bothered with me when I was in hospital after the birth. I could>not believe how they treated me. If the tables were turned I would not have>ignored one of them like that after having a child, it would have been>unthinkable. I would have made sure I was there for them. Paul was not so>surprised at their actions but I thought I had them all lined up as aunties>and uncles for the kids, and it has made me a very anxious and depressed>mother, although I have Paul, I fear very much having no support if widowed>or him having no support if I died and either of us was left alone to raise>the kids. It's hard enough for just the two of us without support most of>the time. I used to be very bubbly and cheerful believe it or not!>>I thought I had friends before having kids (I was wrong they were not real>friends), so I didn't have these fears. My fears became even worse after>having Lucy, because we had just started meeting once a month at the Chai>with a few other local veggies and vegans, and they turned out like the rest>and did not give a damn about lifting a finger to help when I was having a>bad time in pregnancy. We mostly dropped out of the meals after Lucy was>born. I had not been able to find one person from this crowd who would be>willing to babysit even before we had Lucy. Paul had to take the kids to>stay with his mother (she is nearly 80 but very good for her age) and his>brother who lives with his mother for a few days, then he came back to be>with me for the birth and then went back for the kids. My parents helped a>bit with them while they were at Paul's mum's place. I would have preferred>some local veggie or vegan friends to have helped with taking care of them>but there was no-one, so we had to send them away. Compare this to the fact>that I had phoned one old vegan lady who had been to some of the local>meals, and I offered to help when I heard she had had a stroke, and likewise>offered help to another who had cancer. Neither of them took me up on>anything but they knew without a shadow of a doubt that the offer was there,>the old lady had two daughters taking care of her, so she didn't need me. So>I don't understand why some of the young and able bodied veggie/vegan people>without kids would not help those in need of support.>>Some people think I expect too much but I've never expected that which I>would not have been prepared to give if the tables were turned.>>My experience is the reason why I warn aspiring mums to be sure of the true>character of their friends.>>Lesley>>> > Janey [janey]> 23 July 2002 18:18> > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death>>> Hi Lesley>> You mention being abandoned by your vegan friends when you had children so>many times in your posts, its quite a regular theme. Is this something that>has affected you quite deeply? Just wondering.>> Janey> x>>> But I know first hand how they can abandon one of their own. In my case>I had loads of vegan friends but it was when I had my first child that I was>abandoned by the vegan friends I was expecting to be there as my support>network, of aunties and uncles to my kids.>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2002 Report Share Posted July 23, 2002 , " cav2was7 " <geraldine.mccarthy@n...> wrote: > I have only just joined this group recently. I have been reading > this post with interest and reading all the various points of view. > > I feel myself whatever the reasons regarding someone taking their own > life, how very sad to think that the person involved apparently felt > they had no one to turn to. Apparently Mr. Crone said he didn't want to be a burden to others. But he pretty much burdened that train driver and his family didn't he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2002 Report Share Posted July 24, 2002 When my children were young, I didn't want to let anyone else look after them. I didn't really trust anyone else to look after them properly. In fact Colin and I went out by ourselves only once in the whole time they were growing up! It could be that the people you mention are like that, although I don't see why they couldn't look after yours occasionally so you could go out. BBJo - Lesley Dove Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:22 PM RE: re: Wilfred Crone's Death Well I have already asked one or two other veggie and vegan mums in my area if they would be interested in exchange babysitting, and no-one was, even though some of them are in the same position as us without a babysitter. It's hard to understand why they won't do it as an arrangement where we help one another. Lesley Heartwork [Heartwork]23 July 2002 20:25 Subject: Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death Lesley I'm sorry to hear that you are so upset at what has happened. You sound like you are a very helpful person. Unfortunately not everyone is. It could be that the people without children did not realise how you felt when you weren't feeling well, or were shy with babies. Before I had my first baby I had only held one baby for about ten seconds, and it scared me no end. Maybe it was because they were so unsure of themselves that they didn't offer help. Anyway, I am sure that if you keep trying, you will eventually find friends who are not shy with babies/children, or other parents that you can sit for in turns. BBJo It did affect me deeply, since we were so close to certain people in a vegan group we were in, of course I naturally expected these friends without kids to be there to take the place of extended family as we live so far from our real family. These were people we were close to and met up with at walks and meetings and restaurant visits several times a month, but when I was exhausted and depressed after my son was born because I was so cut off from my friends, none of them offered to babysit, or even phoned or visited. They never even bothered with me when I was in hospital after the birth. I could not believe how they treated me. If the tables were turned I would not have ignored one of them like that after having a child, it would have been unthinkable. I would have made sure I was there for them. Paul was not so surprised at their actions but I thought I had them all lined up as aunties and uncles for the kids, and it has made me a very anxious and depressed mother, although I have Paul, I fear very much having no support if widowed or him having no support if I died and either of us was left alone to raise the kids. It's hard enough for just the two of us without support most of the time. I used to be very bubbly and cheerful believe it or not! I thought I had friends before having kids (I was wrong they were not real friends), so I didn't have these fears. My fears became even worse after having Lucy, because we had just started meeting once a month at the Chai with a few other local veggies and vegans, and they turned out like the rest and did not give a damn about lifting a finger to help when I was having a bad time in pregnancy. We mostly dropped out of the meals after Lucy was born. I had not been able to find one person from this crowd who would be willing to babysit even before we had Lucy. Paul had to take the kids to stay with his mother (she is nearly 80 but very good for her age) and his brother who lives with his mother for a few days, then he came back to be with me for the birth and then went back for the kids. My parents helped a bit with them while they were at Paul's mum's place. I would have preferred some local veggie or vegan friends to have helped with taking care of them but there was no-one, so we had to send them away. Compare this to the fact that I had phoned one old vegan lady who had been to some of the local meals, and I offered to help when I heard she had had a stroke, and likewise offered help to another who had cancer. Neither of them took me up on anything but they knew without a shadow of a doubt that the offer was there, the old lady had two daughters taking care of her, so she didn't need me. So I don't understand why some of the young and able bodied veggie/vegan people without kids would not help those in need of support. Some people think I expect too much but I've never expected that which I would not have been prepared to give if the tables were turned. My experience is the reason why I warn aspiring mums to be sure of the true character of their friends. Lesley Janey [janey]23 July 2002 18:18 Subject: Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death Hi Lesley You mention being abandoned by your vegan friends when you had children so many times in your posts, its quite a regular theme. Is this something that has affected you quite deeply? Just wondering. Janey x But I know first hand how they can abandon one of their own. In my case I had loads of vegan friends but it was when I had my first child that I was abandoned by the vegan friends I was expecting to be there as my support network, of aunties and uncles to my kids.To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2002 Report Share Posted July 24, 2002 if we all had multiple mates then you'd have plenty of folks to look after the kiddies!! thats it..i'm starting my ployamorous succession party right now!! the open relationship peoples republic of california!!! fraggle " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: >When my children were young, I didn't want to let anyone else look after them. I didn't really trust anyone else to look after them properly. In fact Colin and I went out by ourselves only once in the whole time they were growing up! It could be that the people you mention are like that, although I don't see why they couldn't look after yours occasionally so you could go out. > >BB >Jo > - > Lesley Dove > > Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:22 PM > RE: re: Wilfred Crone's Death > > > Well I have already asked one or two other veggie and vegan mums in my area if they would be interested in exchange babysitting, and no-one was, even though some of them are in the same position as us without a babysitter. It's hard to understand why they won't do it as an arrangement where we help one another. > > Lesley > > > Heartwork [Heartwork] > 23 July 2002 20:25 > > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death > > > Lesley > > I'm sorry to hear that you are so upset at what has happened. You sound like you are a very helpful person. Unfortunately not everyone is. It could be that the people without children did not realise how you felt when you weren't feeling well, or were shy with babies. Before I had my first baby I had only held one baby for about ten seconds, and it scared me no end. Maybe it was because they were so unsure of themselves that they didn't offer help. > > Anyway, I am sure that if you keep trying, you will eventually find friends who are not shy with babies/children, or other parents that you can sit for in turns. > > BB > Jo > It did affect me deeply, since we were so close to certain people in a vegan group we were in, of course I naturally expected these friends without kids to be there to take the place of extended family as we live so far from our real family. These were people we were close to and met up with at walks and meetings and restaurant visits several times a month, but when I was exhausted and depressed after my son was born because I was so cut off from my friends, none of them offered to babysit, or even phoned or visited. They never even bothered with me when I was in hospital after the birth. I could not believe how they treated me. If the tables were turned I would not have ignored one of them like that after having a child, it would have been unthinkable. I would have made sure I was there for them. Paul was not so surprised at their actions but I thought I had them all lined up as aunties and uncles for the kids, and it has made me a very anxious and depressed mother, although I have Paul, I fear very much having no support if widowed or him having no support if I died and either of us was left alone to raise the kids. It's hard enough for just the two of us without support most of the time. I used to be very bubbly and cheerful believe it or not! > > I thought I had friends before having kids (I was wrong they were not real friends), so I didn't have these fears. My fears became even worse after having Lucy, because we had just started meeting once a month at the Chai with a few other local veggies and vegans, and they turned out like the rest and did not give a damn about lifting a finger to help when I was having a bad time in pregnancy. We mostly dropped out of the meals after Lucy was born. I had not been able to find one person from this crowd who would be willing to babysit even before we had Lucy. Paul had to take the kids to stay with his mother (she is nearly 80 but very good for her age) and his brother who lives with his mother for a few days, then he came back to be with me for the birth and then went back for the kids. My parents helped a bit with them while they were at Paul's mum's place. I would have preferred some local veggie or vegan friends to have helped with taking care of them but there was no-one, so we had to send them away. Compare this to the fact that I had phoned one old vegan lady who had been to some of the local meals, and I offered to help when I heard she had had a stroke, and likewise offered help to another who had cancer. Neither of them took me up on anything but they knew without a shadow of a doubt that the offer was there, the old lady had two daughters taking care of her, so she didn't need me. So I don't understand why some of the young and able bodied veggie/vegan people without kids would not help those in need of support. > > Some people think I expect too much but I've never expected that which I would not have been prepared to give if the tables were turned. > > My experience is the reason why I warn aspiring mums to be sure of the true character of their friends. > > Lesley > > > > Janey [janey] > 23 July 2002 18:18 > > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death > > > Hi Lesley > > You mention being abandoned by your vegan friends when you had children so many times in your posts, its quite a regular theme. Is this something that has affected you quite deeply? Just wondering. > > Janey > x > > > But I know first hand how they can abandon one of their own. In my case I had loads of vegan friends but it was when I had my first child that I was abandoned by the vegan friends I was expecting to be there as my support network, of aunties and uncles to my kids. > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2002 Report Share Posted July 24, 2002 MrBig off the other list talks like this, he is interested in polygamy. I don't agree, I simply don't see any reason why like-minded folks can't act like extended family and help one another without being polyamorous, can you? Lesley EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx]24 July 2002 21:29 Subject: Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Deathif we all had multiple mates then you'd have plenty of folks to look after the kiddies!!thats it..i'm starting my ployamorous succession party right now!! the open relationship peoples republic of california!!!fraggle"Heartwork" <Heartwork wrote:>When my children were young, I didn't want to let anyone else look after them. I didn't really trust anyone else to look after them properly. In fact Colin and I went out by ourselves only once in the whole time they were growing up! It could be that the people you mention are like that, although I don't see why they couldn't look after yours occasionally so you could go out.>>BB>Jo> -> Lesley Dove> > Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:22 PM> RE: re: Wilfred Crone's Death>>> Well I have already asked one or two other veggie and vegan mums in my area if they would be interested in exchange babysitting, and no-one was, even though some of them are in the same position as us without a babysitter. It's hard to understand why they won't do it as an arrangement where we help one another.>> Lesley>> > Heartwork [Heartwork]> 23 July 2002 20:25> > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death>>> Lesley>> I'm sorry to hear that you are so upset at what has happened. You sound like you are a very helpful person. Unfortunately not everyone is. It could be that the people without children did not realise how you felt when you weren't feeling well, or were shy with babies. Before I had my first baby I had only held one baby for about ten seconds, and it scared me no end. Maybe it was because they were so unsure of themselves that they didn't offer help.>> Anyway, I am sure that if you keep trying, you will eventually find friends who are not shy with babies/children, or other parents that you can sit for in turns.>> BB> Jo> It did affect me deeply, since we were so close to certain people in a vegan group we were in, of course I naturally expected these friends without kids to be there to take the place of extended family as we live so far from our real family. These were people we were close to and met up with at walks and meetings and restaurant visits several times a month, but when I was exhausted and depressed after my son was born because I was so cut off from my friends, none of them offered to babysit, or even phoned or visited. They never even bothered with me when I was in hospital after the birth. I could not believe how they treated me. If the tables were turned I would not have ignored one of them like that after having a child, it would have been unthinkable. I would have made sure I was there for them. Paul was not so surprised at their actions but I thought I had them all lined up as aunties and uncles for the kids, and it has made me a very anxious and depressed mother, although I have Paul, I fear very much having no support if widowed or him having no support if I died and either of us was left alone to raise the kids. It's hard enough for just the two of us without support most of the time. I used to be very bubbly and cheerful believe it or not!>> I thought I had friends before having kids (I was wrong they were not real friends), so I didn't have these fears. My fears became even worse after having Lucy, because we had just started meeting once a month at the Chai with a few other local veggies and vegans, and they turned out like the rest and did not give a damn about lifting a finger to help when I was having a bad time in pregnancy. We mostly dropped out of the meals after Lucy was born. I had not been able to find one person from this crowd who would be willing to babysit even before we had Lucy. Paul had to take the kids to stay with his mother (she is nearly 80 but very good for her age) and his brother who lives with his mother for a few days, then he came back to be with me for the birth and then went back for the kids. My parents helped a bit with them while they were at Paul's mum's place. I would have preferred some local veggie or vegan friends to have helped with taking care of them but there was no-one, so we had to send them away. Compare this to the fact that I had phoned one old vegan lady who had been to some of the local meals, and I offered to help when I heard she had had a stroke, and likewise offered help to another who had cancer. Neither of them took me up on anything but they knew without a shadow of a doubt that the offer was there, the old lady had two daughters taking care of her, so she didn't need me. So I don't understand why some of the young and able bodied veggie/vegan people without kids would not help those in need of support.>> Some people think I expect too much but I've never expected that which I would not have been prepared to give if the tables were turned.>> My experience is the reason why I warn aspiring mums to be sure of the true character of their friends.>> Lesley>>> > Janey [janey]> 23 July 2002 18:18> > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death>>> Hi Lesley>> You mention being abandoned by your vegan friends when you had children so many times in your posts, its quite a regular theme. Is this something that has affected you quite deeply? Just wondering.>> Janey> x>>> But I know first hand how they can abandon one of their own. In my case I had loads of vegan friends but it was when I had my first child that I was abandoned by the vegan friends I was expecting to be there as my support network, of aunties and uncles to my kids.>>> To send an email to - >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2002 Report Share Posted July 24, 2002 like minded folks is fine finding like minded folks is a whole other barrel of tofu.... we all is different.... and i was half joking lesley.... fraggle " Lesley Dove " <Lesley wrote: > >MrBig off the other list talks like this, he is interested in polygamy. > >I don't agree, I simply don't see any reason why like-minded folks can't act >like extended family and help one another without being polyamorous, can >you? > >Lesley > > > EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] > 24 July 2002 21:29 > > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death > > > > if we all had multiple mates then you'd have plenty of folks to look after >the kiddies!! > thats it..i'm starting my ployamorous succession party right now!! > the open relationship peoples republic of california!!! > fraggle > > " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: > > >When my children were young, I didn't want to let anyone else look after >them. I didn't really trust anyone else to look after them properly. In >fact Colin and I went out by ourselves only once in the whole time they were >growing up! It could be that the people you mention are like that, although >I don't see why they couldn't look after yours occasionally so you could go >out. > > > >BB > >Jo > > - > > Lesley Dove > > > > Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:22 PM > > RE: re: Wilfred Crone's Death > > > > > > Well I have already asked one or two other veggie and vegan mums in my >area if they would be interested in exchange babysitting, and no-one was, >even though some of them are in the same position as us without a >babysitter. It's hard to understand why they won't do it as an arrangement >where we help one another. > > > > Lesley > > > > > > Heartwork [Heartwork] > > 23 July 2002 20:25 > > > > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death > > > > > > Lesley > > > > I'm sorry to hear that you are so upset at what has happened. You >sound like you are a very helpful person. Unfortunately not everyone is. >It could be that the people without children did not realise how you felt >when you weren't feeling well, or were shy with babies. Before I had my >first baby I had only held one baby for about ten seconds, and it scared me >no end. Maybe it was because they were so unsure of themselves that they >didn't offer help. > > > > Anyway, I am sure that if you keep trying, you will eventually find >friends who are not shy with babies/children, or other parents that you can >sit for in turns. > > > > BB > > Jo > > It did affect me deeply, since we were so close to certain people >in a vegan group we were in, of course I naturally expected these friends >without kids to be there to take the place of extended family as we live so >far from our real family. These were people we were close to and met up with >at walks and meetings and restaurant visits several times a month, but when >I was exhausted and depressed after my son was born because I was so cut off >from my friends, none of them offered to babysit, or even phoned or visited. >They never even bothered with me when I was in hospital after the birth. I >could not believe how they treated me. If the tables were turned I would not >have ignored one of them like that after having a child, it would have been >unthinkable. I would have made sure I was there for them. Paul was not so >surprised at their actions but I thought I had them all lined up as aunties >and uncles for the kids, and it has made me a very anxious and depressed >mother, although I have Paul, I fear very much having no support if widowed >or him having no support if I died and either of us was left alone to raise >the kids. It's hard enough for just the two of us without support most of >the time. I used to be very bubbly and cheerful believe it or not! > > > > I thought I had friends before having kids (I was wrong they were >not real friends), so I didn't have these fears. My fears became even worse >after having Lucy, because we had just started meeting once a month at the >Chai with a few other local veggies and vegans, and they turned out like the >rest and did not give a damn about lifting a finger to help when I was >having a bad time in pregnancy. We mostly dropped out of the meals after >Lucy was born. I had not been able to find one person from this crowd who >would be willing to babysit even before we had Lucy. Paul had to take the >kids to stay with his mother (she is nearly 80 but very good for her age) >and his brother who lives with his mother for a few days, then he came back >to be with me for the birth and then went back for the kids. My parents >helped a bit with them while they were at Paul's mum's place. I would have >preferred some local veggie or vegan friends to have helped with taking care >of them but there was no-one, so we had to send them away. Compare this to >the fact that I had phoned one old vegan lady who had been to some of the >local meals, and I offered to help when I heard she had had a stroke, and >likewise offered help to another who had cancer. Neither of them took me up >on anything but they knew without a shadow of a doubt that the offer was >there, the old lady had two daughters taking care of her, so she didn't need >me. So I don't understand why some of the young and able bodied veggie/vegan >people without kids would not help those in need of support. > > > > Some people think I expect too much but I've never expected that >which I would not have been prepared to give if the tables were turned. > > > > My experience is the reason why I warn aspiring mums to be sure of >the true character of their friends. > > > > Lesley > > > > > > > > Janey [janey] > > 23 July 2002 18:18 > > > > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death > > > > > > Hi Lesley > > > > You mention being abandoned by your vegan friends when you had >children so many times in your posts, its quite a regular theme. Is this >something that has affected you quite deeply? Just wondering. > > > > Janey > > x > > > > > > But I know first hand how they can abandon one of their own. In >my case I had loads of vegan friends but it was when I had my first child >that I was abandoned by the vegan friends I was expecting to be there as my >support network, of aunties and uncles to my kids. > > > > > > To send an email to >- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2002 Report Share Posted July 24, 2002 Hi Fraggle > if we all had multiple mates then you'd have plenty of folks to look after the kiddies!! If we have the right one, we don't want others. I was quite happy to spend my time with Colin and my kids. > thats it..i'm starting my ployamorous succession party right now!! > the open relationship peoples republic of california!!! That's one thing I won't be joining! Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release 10/07/02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2002 Report Share Posted July 24, 2002 oh..you probably believe the earth is flat also!! *giggle* ya know i'm just kidding with you.... to each their own... and happy you are happy.. fraggle " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: >Hi Fraggle > >> if we all had multiple mates then you'd have plenty of folks to look after >the kiddies!! > >If we have the right one, we don't want others. I was quite happy to spend >my time with Colin and my kids. > >> thats it..i'm starting my ployamorous succession party right now!! >> the open relationship peoples republic of california!!! > >That's one thing I won't be joining! > >Jo > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release 10/07/02 > > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Darn! I had my fishbowl all ready for the car keys, too!! Hannah EBbrewpunx 7/24/2002 4:59 PM RE: re: Wilfred Crone's Death like minded folks is fine finding like minded folks is a whole other barrel of tofu.... we all is different.... and i was half joking lesley.... fraggle " Lesley Dove " <Lesley wrote: > >MrBig off the other list talks like this, he is interested in polygamy. > >I don't agree, I simply don't see any reason why like-minded folks can't act >like extended family and help one another without being polyamorous, can >you? > >Lesley > > > EBbrewpunx [EBbrewpunx] > 24 July 2002 21:29 > > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death > > > > if we all had multiple mates then you'd have plenty of folks to look after >the kiddies!! > thats it..i'm starting my ployamorous succession party right now!! > the open relationship peoples republic of california!!! > fraggle > > " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: > > >When my children were young, I didn't want to let anyone else look after >them. I didn't really trust anyone else to look after them properly. In >fact Colin and I went out by ourselves only once in the whole time they were >growing up! It could be that the people you mention are like that, although >I don't see why they couldn't look after yours occasionally so you could go >out. > > > >BB > >Jo > > - > > Lesley Dove > > > > Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:22 PM > > RE: re: Wilfred Crone's Death > > > > > > Well I have already asked one or two other veggie and vegan mums in my >area if they would be interested in exchange babysitting, and no-one was, >even though some of them are in the same position as us without a >babysitter. It's hard to understand why they won't do it as an arrangement >where we help one another. > > > > Lesley > > > > > > Heartwork [Heartwork] > > 23 July 2002 20:25 > > > > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death > > > > > > Lesley > > > > I'm sorry to hear that you are so upset at what has happened. You >sound like you are a very helpful person. Unfortunately not everyone is. >It could be that the people without children did not realise how you felt >when you weren't feeling well, or were shy with babies. Before I had my >first baby I had only held one baby for about ten seconds, and it scared me >no end. Maybe it was because they were so unsure of themselves that they >didn't offer help. > > > > Anyway, I am sure that if you keep trying, you will eventually find >friends who are not shy with babies/children, or other parents that you can >sit for in turns. > > > > BB > > Jo > > It did affect me deeply, since we were so close to certain people >in a vegan group we were in, of course I naturally expected these friends >without kids to be there to take the place of extended family as we live so >far from our real family. These were people we were close to and met up with >at walks and meetings and restaurant visits several times a month, but when >I was exhausted and depressed after my son was born because I was so cut off >from my friends, none of them offered to babysit, or even phoned or visited. >They never even bothered with me when I was in hospital after the birth. I >could not believe how they treated me. If the tables were turned I would not >have ignored one of them like that after having a child, it would have been >unthinkable. I would have made sure I was there for them. Paul was not so >surprised at their actions but I thought I had them all lined up as aunties >and uncles for the kids, and it has made me a very anxious and depressed >mother, although I have Paul, I fear very much having no support if widowed >or him having no support if I died and either of us was left alone to raise >the kids. It's hard enough for just the two of us without support most of >the time. I used to be very bubbly and cheerful believe it or not! > > > > I thought I had friends before having kids (I was wrong they were >not real friends), so I didn't have these fears. My fears became even worse >after having Lucy, because we had just started meeting once a month at the >Chai with a few other local veggies and vegans, and they turned out like the >rest and did not give a damn about lifting a finger to help when I was >having a bad time in pregnancy. We mostly dropped out of the meals after >Lucy was born. I had not been able to find one person from this crowd who >would be willing to babysit even before we had Lucy. Paul had to take the >kids to stay with his mother (she is nearly 80 but very good for her age) >and his brother who lives with his mother for a few days, then he came back >to be with me for the birth and then went back for the kids. My parents >helped a bit with them while they were at Paul's mum's place. I would have >preferred some local veggie or vegan friends to have helped with taking care >of them but there was no-one, so we had to send them away. Compare this to >the fact that I had phoned one old vegan lady who had been to some of the >local meals, and I offered to help when I heard she had had a stroke, and >likewise offered help to another who had cancer. Neither of them took me up >on anything but they knew without a shadow of a doubt that the offer was >there, the old lady had two daughters taking care of her, so she didn't need >me. So I don't understand why some of the young and able bodied veggie/vegan >people without kids would not help those in need of support. > > > > Some people think I expect too much but I've never expected that >which I would not have been prepared to give if the tables were turned. > > > > My experience is the reason why I warn aspiring mums to be sure of >the true character of their friends. > > > > Lesley > > > > > > > > Janey [janey] > > 23 July 2002 18:18 > > > > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's Death > > > > > > Hi Lesley > > > > You mention being abandoned by your vegan friends when you had >children so many times in your posts, its quite a regular theme. Is this >something that has affected you quite deeply? Just wondering. > > > > Janey > > x > > > > > > But I know first hand how they can abandon one of their own. In >my case I had loads of vegan friends but it was when I had my first child >that I was abandoned by the vegan friends I was expecting to be there as my >support network, of aunties and uncles to my kids. > > > > > > To send an email to >- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Hi Fraggle > oh..you probably believe the earth is flat also!! How can it possibly be flat? Everyone knows it's hollow. BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release 10/07/02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Don't worry, Hannah -- he said he was only " half kidding. " Which means he was half not kidding, too -- right, fraggle? ;-D Hey...what about those of us who don't have cars? -- jojo --- " Trusty, Hannah " <hannah.trusty wrote: > Darn! I had my fishbowl all ready for the car > keys, too!! > > Hannah > > > EBbrewpunx > > 7/24/2002 4:59 PM > RE: re: Wilfred Crone's Death > > > like minded folks is fine > finding like minded folks is a whole other barrel of > tofu.... > we all is different.... > > and i was half joking lesley.... > fraggle > > " Lesley Dove " <Lesley wrote: > > > > >MrBig off the other list talks like this, he is > interested in polygamy. > > > >I don't agree, I simply don't see any reason why > like-minded folks > can't act > >like extended family and help one another without > being polyamorous, > can > >you? > > > >Lesley > > > > > > EBbrewpunx > [EBbrewpunx] > > 24 July 2002 21:29 > > > > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's > Death > > > > > > > > if we all had multiple mates then you'd have > plenty of folks to look > after > >the kiddies!! > > thats it..i'm starting my ployamorous succession > party right now!! > > the open relationship peoples republic of > california!!! > > fraggle > > > > " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: > > > > >When my children were young, I didn't want to > let anyone else look > after > >them. I didn't really trust anyone else to look > after them properly. > In > >fact Colin and I went out by ourselves only once in > the whole time they > were > >growing up! It could be that the people you > mention are like that, > although > >I don't see why they couldn't look after yours > occasionally so you > could go > >out. > > > > > >BB > > >Jo > > > - > > > Lesley Dove > > > > > > Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:22 PM > > > RE: re: Wilfred Crone's > Death > > > > > > > > > Well I have already asked one or two other > veggie and vegan mums > in my > >area if they would be interested in exchange > babysitting, and no-one > was, > >even though some of them are in the same position > as us without a > >babysitter. It's hard to understand why they won't > do it as an > arrangement > >where we help one another. > > > > > > Lesley > > > > > > > > > Heartwork > [Heartwork] > > > 23 July 2002 20:25 > > > > > > Re: re: Wilfred > Crone's Death > > > > > > > > > Lesley > > > > > > I'm sorry to hear that you are so upset at > what has happened. > You > >sound like you are a very helpful person. > Unfortunately not everyone > is. > >It could be that the people without children did > not realise how you > felt > >when you weren't feeling well, or were shy with > babies. Before I had > my > >first baby I had only held one baby for about ten > seconds, and it > scared me > >no end. Maybe it was because they were so unsure > of themselves that > they > >didn't offer help. > > > > > > Anyway, I am sure that if you keep trying, > you will eventually > find > >friends who are not shy with babies/children, or > other parents that you > can > >sit for in turns. > > > > > > BB > > > Jo > > > It did affect me deeply, since we were so > close to certain > people > >in a vegan group we were in, of course I naturally > expected these > friends > >without kids to be there to take the place of > extended family as we > live so > >far from our real family. These were people we were > close to and met up > with > >at walks and meetings and restaurant visits several > times a month, but > when > >I was exhausted and depressed after my son was born > because I was so > cut off > >from my friends, none of them offered to babysit, > or even phoned or > visited. > >They never even bothered with me when I was in > hospital after the > birth. I > >could not believe how they treated me. If the > tables were turned I > would not > >have ignored one of them like that after having a > child, it would have > been > >unthinkable. I would have made sure I was there for > them. Paul was not > so > >surprised at their actions but I thought I had them > all lined up as > aunties > >and uncles for the kids, and it has made me a very > anxious and > depressed > >mother, although I have Paul, I fear very much > having no support if > widowed > >or him having no support if I died and either of us > was left alone to > raise > >the kids. It's hard enough for just the two of us > without support most > of > >the time. I used to be very bubbly and cheerful > believe it or not! > > > > > > I thought I had friends before having kids > (I was wrong they > were > >not real friends), so I didn't have these fears. My > fears became even > worse > >after having Lucy, because we had just started > meeting once a month at > the > === message truncated === Health - Feel better, live better http://health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 oh yes..i fergot..a dysine sphere..er is that where they keep the base fer the greys?? with that opening up at the poles?? or is that the way to narnia?? mmm...turkish delight... fraggle " Peter " <Snowbow wrote: >Hi Fraggle > >> oh..you probably believe the earth is flat also!! > >How can it possibly be flat? Everyone knows it's hollow. > >BB >Peter > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release 10/07/02 > > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 umm yup!!!! wot can i say..you caught me.... fraggle jojo <tofujojo wrote: >Don't worry, Hannah -- he said he was only " half >kidding. " Which means he was half not kidding, too -- >right, fraggle? ;-D > >Hey...what about those of us who don't have cars? > >-- jojo > >--- " Trusty, Hannah " <hannah.trusty wrote: >> Darn! I had my fishbowl all ready for the car >> keys, too!! >> >> Hannah >> >> >> EBbrewpunx >> >> 7/24/2002 4:59 PM >> RE: re: Wilfred Crone's Death >> >> >> like minded folks is fine >> finding like minded folks is a whole other barrel of >> tofu.... >> we all is different.... >> >> and i was half joking lesley.... >> fraggle >> >> " Lesley Dove " <Lesley wrote: >> >> > >> >MrBig off the other list talks like this, he is >> interested in polygamy. >> > >> >I don't agree, I simply don't see any reason why >> like-minded folks >> can't act >> >like extended family and help one another without >> being polyamorous, >> can >> >you? >> > >> >Lesley >> > >> > >> > EBbrewpunx >> [EBbrewpunx] >> > 24 July 2002 21:29 >> > >> > Re: re: Wilfred Crone's >> Death >> > >> > >> > >> > if we all had multiple mates then you'd have >> plenty of folks to look >> after >> >the kiddies!! >> > thats it..i'm starting my ployamorous succession >> party right now!! >> > the open relationship peoples republic of >> california!!! >> > fraggle >> > >> > " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: >> > >> > >When my children were young, I didn't want to >> let anyone else look >> after >> >them. I didn't really trust anyone else to look >> after them properly. >> In >> >fact Colin and I went out by ourselves only once in >> the whole time they >> were >> >growing up! It could be that the people you >> mention are like that, >> although >> >I don't see why they couldn't look after yours >> occasionally so you >> could go >> >out. >> > > >> > >BB >> > >Jo >> > > - >> > > Lesley Dove >> > > >> > > Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:22 PM >> > > RE: re: Wilfred Crone's >> Death >> > > >> > > >> > > Well I have already asked one or two other >> veggie and vegan mums >> in my >> >area if they would be interested in exchange >> babysitting, and no-one >> was, >> >even though some of them are in the same position >> as us without a >> >babysitter. It's hard to understand why they won't >> do it as an >> arrangement >> >where we help one another. >> > > >> > > Lesley >> > > >> > > >> > > Heartwork >> [Heartwork] >> > > 23 July 2002 20:25 >> > > >> > > Re: re: Wilfred >> Crone's Death >> > > >> > > >> > > Lesley >> > > >> > > I'm sorry to hear that you are so upset at >> what has happened. >> You >> >sound like you are a very helpful person. >> Unfortunately not everyone >> is. >> >It could be that the people without children did >> not realise how you >> felt >> >when you weren't feeling well, or were shy with >> babies. Before I had >> my >> >first baby I had only held one baby for about ten >> seconds, and it >> scared me >> >no end. Maybe it was because they were so unsure >> of themselves that >> they >> >didn't offer help. >> > > >> > > Anyway, I am sure that if you keep trying, >> you will eventually >> find >> >friends who are not shy with babies/children, or >> other parents that you >> can >> >sit for in turns. >> > > >> > > BB >> > > Jo >> > > It did affect me deeply, since we were so >> close to certain >> people >> >in a vegan group we were in, of course I naturally >> expected these >> friends >> >without kids to be there to take the place of >> extended family as we >> live so >> >far from our real family. These were people we were >> close to and met up >> with >> >at walks and meetings and restaurant visits several >> times a month, but >> when >> >I was exhausted and depressed after my son was born >> because I was so >> cut off >> >from my friends, none of them offered to babysit, >> or even phoned or >> visited. >> >They never even bothered with me when I was in >> hospital after the >> birth. I >> >could not believe how they treated me. If the >> tables were turned I >> would not >> >have ignored one of them like that after having a >> child, it would have >> been >> >unthinkable. I would have made sure I was there for >> them. Paul was not >> so >> >surprised at their actions but I thought I had them >> all lined up as >> aunties >> >and uncles for the kids, and it has made me a very >> anxious and >> depressed >> >mother, although I have Paul, I fear very much >> having no support if >> widowed >> >or him having no support if I died and either of us >> was left alone to >> raise >> >the kids. It's hard enough for just the two of us >> without support most >> of >> >the time. I used to be very bubbly and cheerful >> believe it or not! >> > > >> > > I thought I had friends before having kids >> (I was wrong they >> were >> >not real friends), so I didn't have these fears. My >> fears became even >> worse >> >after having Lucy, because we had just started >> meeting once a month at >> the >> >=== message truncated === > > > > > Health - Feel better, live better >http://health. > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Hi Fraggle > oh yes..i fergot..a dysine sphere I thought that was made up for Star Trek! > with that opening up at the poles?? That's the one. Apparently Adolf Hitler was a bit obsessed with the theory, and sent fighter pilots to fly to the poles to see if they could find the openings. In some ways the concept of a hollow earth makes sense - after all, according to most theories, the earth started off as a molten mass - so logically, the centrifugal force of the turning motion should have thrown everything to the outside! > or is that the way to narnia?? Nah - that's in the back of the wardrobe. BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release 10/07/02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 Hi Jojo > Hey...what about those of us who don't have cars? I think you're cofusing the term " polyamorous " for " car pool " :-) BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release 10/07/02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2002 Report Share Posted July 25, 2002 , EBbrewpunx@c... wrote: > > like minded folks is fine > finding like minded folks is a whole other barrel of tofu.... > we all is different.... > > and i was half joking lesley.... Which half? Top, bottom, or straight down the middle?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2002 Report Share Posted July 26, 2002 star tek..made up... wot are you saying??? *looks at you perplexed* next you'll be telling me that vulcans don't have green blood... apparantly hitler was also convinced that there was a hole in antartica as well, and that the templar's treasure was in the south of france and.... but, reagan had daily astrology readings, so.... fraggle " Peter " <Snowbow wrote: >Hi Fraggle > >> oh yes..i fergot..a dysine sphere > >I thought that was made up for Star Trek! > >> with that opening up at the poles?? > >That's the one. Apparently Adolf Hitler was a bit obsessed with the theory, >and sent fighter pilots to fly to the poles to see if they could find the >openings. In some ways the concept of a hollow earth makes sense - after >all, according to most theories, the earth started off as a molten mass - so >logically, the centrifugal force of the turning motion should have thrown >everything to the outside! > >> or is that the way to narnia?? > >Nah - that's in the back of the wardrobe. > >BB >Peter > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.375 / Virus Database: 210 - Release 10/07/02 > > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.