fuzzy wuzzy was an altruist... was: Wilfred Crone's death

July 23, 2002

B " H

I have been saying the same thing for years.... that when you boil

everything down, it's all selfish. We help others because either we

expect them to like us, or we expect something in return or it makes

us feel good, fullfilled, or otherwise " warm and fuzzy " .

The thing that separates the altruistic acts from the

totally " selfish " acts is that the selfish gain we get from

altruistic acts is good feeling. Of course, there are various levels

of selfishness. For example, some of the things I do to try to get

graphic design business or sell my writing etc. might be seen as

selfish, but why is this any more selfish that applying for a job

that 200 other people apply for and getting it by making a good

impression or whatever? I'm not looking to be rich, I'd just really

like to be able to support myself without having to live with my

parents (how many 47 year olds do you know who live with their

parents because they can't afford to have their own place?????)......

But I digress......

Debbie

Hi Janey / Michael

> That could also be deemed as selfish, no?

Isn't everything we do selfish? For instance - how many of us would

be vegan if it didn't make us feel better about ourselves? I know we

do it because it helps animals, the environment, etc. etc. but

ultimately it is because it makes us feel better about ourselves!

OK - maybe I'm cynical, but that's the way I see things!

BB

Peter

July 23, 2002

more then i care to admit....

(how many 47 year olds do you know who live with their

>parents because they can't afford to have their own place?????)......

>

>But I digress......

>

>Debbie

>

>Hi Janey / Michael

>

>> That could also be deemed as selfish, no?

>

>Isn't everything we do selfish? For instance - how many of us would

>be vegan if it didn't make us feel better about ourselves? I know we

>do it because it helps animals, the environment, etc. etc. but

>ultimately it is because it makes us feel better about ourselves!

>

>OK - maybe I'm cynical, but that's the way I see things!

>

>BB

>Peter

>

>To send an email to -

>

July 24, 2002

My brother in law lives with his mum and he is nearly 45.

Nothing wrong with wanting to move out from your parents, I wish you luck.

I used to help others, did various voluntary work when I was a young adult, without expecting anything back at the time, it has been since having kids that I have wanted a little bit of help back (and felt disappointed at the lack of help forthcoming), but I will give more back again when my time is my own and my kids are older, I can't see myself turning selfish just because my friends turned out selfish, and then I will probably need help again when I am frail and elderly. That is how it should be, each give according to their ability and each accept help according to their need, and it varies at different times in life. Yes I do expect help back when in need and I don't think that is unreasonable. It's not as if I want to overall take all the time and give nothing back.

You help care for your nieces, and obviously that is not just to help out their parents (although with 7 of them they are probably extremely glad of your help - I have three and it's very hard work, we don't get enough sleep), it's also because you like to do it. I just wish my old friends without kids were a bit like you and would lend a hand from time to time.

I want to do more for the causes I believe in, but I am also aware of the fact that doing something worthwhile will make me more popular and respected, and that is a very selfish desire, to be liked and respected. I think a large part of my problem with my life as a full-time mum is that I feel I am not respected or valued much and few people care about my needs and my personal fulfilment of my dreams seems to end up as a very low priority.

Lesley

compugraphd [compugraphd]23 July 2002 22:16 Subject: fuzzy wuzzy was an altruist... was: Wilfred Crone's deathB"HI have been saying the same thing for years.... that when you boil everything down, it's all selfish. We help others because either we expect them to like us, or we expect something in return or it makes us feel good, fullfilled, or otherwise "warm and fuzzy".The thing that separates the altruistic acts from the totally "selfish" acts is that the selfish gain we get from altruistic acts is good feeling. Of course, there are various levels of selfishness. For example, some of the things I do to try to get graphic design business or sell my writing etc. might be seen as selfish, but why is this any more selfish that applying for a job that 200 other people apply for and getting it by making a good impression or whatever? I'm not looking to be rich, I'd just really like to be able to support myself without having to live with my parents (how many 47 year olds do you know who live with their parents because they can't afford to have their own place?????)......But I digress......DebbieHi Janey / Michael> That could also be deemed as selfish, no?Isn't everything we do selfish? For instance - how many of us would be vegan if it didn't make us feel better about ourselves? I know we do it because it helps animals, the environment, etc. etc. but ultimately it is because it makes us feel better about ourselves!OK - maybe I'm cynical, but that's the way I see things!BBPeterTo send an email to -

July 24, 2002

Lesley

> I think a large part of my problem with my life as a full-time mum is that I feel I am not respected or valued much and few people >care about my needs and my personal fulfilment of my dreams seems to end up as a very low priority.

I think that does happen when you have a young family. I used to just hope that my husband and children valued and respected me. Actually, I don't think that many people, other than my closest, care about my needs etc. I suppose you just come to accept that as you get older. As long as you have someone (your husband) who really cares I think you can feel happy. I know it doesn't help with the tiredness and the putting on hold of all your plans, but if your children grow up healthy and happy then you can feel proud that you have done a really important job. I still remember how tired I was. I only had two, but my first never slept at all in the day, right from when she came home from hospital. You can guess what Peter was like - very easy!

The only consolation I can offer is that they grow up and then you have more time to yourself. I know when Laura left home when she was 19 it took me six months to stop feeling sad (I did still see her, but it was different). At the end of that time I started thinking about all the things I might like to do, and I'm having a whale of a time now, going out more than staying at home. You too will be able to take up your interests again, but I guess at the moment it is hard to patient.

Jo

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