eating meat question

[Guest guest]

I still wouldn't eat meat. And let me assure you this is not because

I stopped enjoying the taste of meat. I loved the taste of meat. It's

not even that the taste or texture or thought of what I was eating

grossed me out. I do also refrain from eating animal products

because of my health (for instance if someone offered me meat that

would otherwise be thrown away, I would still refuse).

 

However, I gave up meat purely because I came to see animals as my

equal. I wouldn't kill people for food no matter how tasty they were,

and it is the same with all nonhuman animals. I'm of the opion that

there is no such thing as humane slaughter. I do have more respect

for people who raise their livestock in the way Kevin's parents do

than people who get their meat from the supermarket, but I still

believe killing animals for food is always cruel and unnecessary.

Even with anasthetia before dehorning or castration, there will be

pain; ask anyone who has ever had surgery. Also, it is extremely

arrogant of homo sapiens to treat other animals as though they aren't

entitled to live a long life, that they don't enjoy being alive, and

that they wouldn't miss their slaughtered companions. My own

pleasure is not worth even the minute suffering of an animal.

 

I don't believe animals should exist to provide humans with food when

there are so many other far more nutritious things we could be

eating. Meat-eaters tend to eat the same thing over and over again.

Since becoming vegan, I am a more adventuresome eater and enjoy food

more because I am also trying new foods, from a wide variety of

ethnic origins.

 

> , " Jigilou Snicklefitz "

> <jigilou> wrote:

> > Kevin,

> >

> > I think your parents definitely have the right idea! I might

> raise

> > the venom of the group here saying this, but if meat production

> were

> > always conducted as your family does, I would reconsider my

> > vegetarian diet. Kudos to you and them!

>

>

> This brings up a good question for the group and a good poll

> question idea.....

>

> If all meat production were done as Kevin's parents do, would you

> change your mind about vegetarianism? In other words, would you

eat the meat?

>

> My answer: no. My vegetarianism goes further than just the

> slaughterhouse conditions. I don't like them at all of course, but

> I just can't bring myself to eat animals. I don't like the thought

> of it and I really don't like all the blood and grease either. Not

> to mention that I know I feel better not eating it.

[Guest guest]

Well said and I do agree with you!!!

 

, " dave " <dave4sale>

wrote:

> I still wouldn't eat meat. And let me assure you this is not

because

> I stopped enjoying the taste of meat. I loved the taste of meat.

It's

> not even that the taste or texture or thought of what I was eating

> grossed me out. I do also refrain from eating animal products

> because of my health (for instance if someone offered me meat that

> would otherwise be thrown away, I would still refuse).

>

> However, I gave up meat purely because I came to see animals as my

> equal. I wouldn't kill people for food no matter how tasty they

were,

> and it is the same with all nonhuman animals.

[Guest guest]

>

> This brings up a good question for the group and a good poll

> question idea.....

>

> If all meat production were done as Kevin's parents do, would

> you

> change your mind about vegetarianism? In other words, would you

> eat

> the meat?

>

 

Sorry, but I find this discussion offensive, especially on a vegetarian

list. I am a vegetarian. I thought this was a 'safe place' ;=) I am

aware that the person posing the question has answered in the negative,

for excellent reasons, and for that I applaud her. I don't want to stand

up and sound like a bigoted bitch (whatsa matta, you guys? It's okay to

discuss eating animals but not okay to use the word bigot?) who thinks

she is holier than the pope, etc etc (fill in your own words), but I

cannot do this. Absolutely effin not.

 

Not so good let alone best,

Pat :=(

--

SANTBROWN

townhounds/

vegetarianslimming/

HOMEPAGE: http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/

----------

* " There are too many idiots in this world. And having said it, I have

the burden of proving it. " (Franz Fanon)

* " Until he extends the circle of compassion to all living things, man

will not himself find peace. " (Albert Schweitzer)

[Guest guest]

No, I would still not wish to eat meat.

I grew up near small farms, and when the animals

were killed to be eaten and it was a terrible thing to be around

or witness; even if they were loved and well cared for prior to

their untimely deaths at the hands of their caregivers.

 

~ PT ~

 

" If it be leyd under mann's heed,

He shal sleepyn as he were deed,

He shal never drede ne wakyn

Till fro under his heed be takyn. "

~From a medieval medical manuscript

~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~~~~~>

, " Sheryl " <ssarndt>

wrote:

 

> This brings up a good question for the group and a good poll

> question idea.....

>

> If all meat production were done as Kevin's parents do, would you

> change your mind about vegetarianism? In other words, would you

eat

> the meat?

[Guest guest]

>

> Sorry, but I find this discussion offensive, especially on a

vegetarian

> list. I am a vegetarian. I thought this was a 'safe place' ;=) I am

> aware that the person posing the question has answered in the

negative,

> for excellent reasons, and for that I applaud her. I don't want to

stand

> up and sound like a bigoted bitch (whatsa matta, you guys? It's

okay to

> discuss eating animals but not okay to use the word bigot?) who

thinks

> she is holier than the pope, etc etc (fill in your own words), but

I

> cannot do this. Absolutely effin not.

>

> Not so good let alone best,

> Pat :=(

 

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. The question was not intended to

offend anyone, but to spark a discussion on why people choose not to

eat animals. I am genuinely interested to learn how others feel

about this. It is not intended to make anyone feel " unsafe " in any

manner and you are welcome to ignore the question. I am genuinely a

curious, questioning person. Curious minds want to know what other

people think about this. I do not and will never advocate a meat-

eating diet. I had this notion that there are people who are

vegetarian purely for reasons of the horrible conditions in the

slaughterhouses. It would stand to reason to me that if someone

chose to boycott eating meat because of the way animals were

treated, that they might consider eating meat if the conditions were

different. It's kind of like boycotting a certain company because

you dislike something they do and then as soon as they correct the

problem, you could go back to purchasing their products. The

conditions in the slaughterhouses are among my reasons for not

eating meat, but even if they clean up their acts, I will not change

my mind. My mind was made up as a child whose parents raised a

couple of cows to slaughter. They were raised in decent conditions

(to my knowledge at the time) and were slaughtered such. It had

nothing to do with today's slaughterhouses and everything to do with

just not wanting to eat animals period.

Please don't be offended by the question. Anyone who knows me will

tell you that I am absolutely a kind and caring person who makes

every attempt to get along with everyone and offend none.

[Guest guest]

I agree people went reading unfair and wrong things into your post.

 

Asking people what they base their moral acts on is not hostility to

the value. That'd be like arguing only terrorists would ask if

locking people up indefinitely in Guantanamo violates habeas corpus,

and therefore the questioners should get locked up too.

 

She didn't ask the question to challenge the value, she asked it to

SOLIDIFY it, to ascertain for how many people vegetarianism rested on

conviction rather than shallowness and convenience. Weirdly, people

were attacking a person who agreed with them, not who disagreed.

 

Surely we're above self-destructive witch hunts that lump even the

innocent together for burning with the guilty? Agree this thread

should close, but in the face of a dogpile like that, I think it's

fair to get at least one defense in there too.

 

Being a believer in a free society, I am not offended by open

questions and debate, -- but I AM offended when free speech is not

only attacked but misrepresented as saying things it never did to

begin with.

 

This is written in haste, but guys, if you're going to overreact,

consider at least saving it for the meatheads instead :-/

 

 

, " Sheryl " <ssarndt> wrote:

>

> >

> > Sorry, but I find this discussion offensive, especially on a

> vegetarian

> > list. I am a vegetarian. I thought this was a 'safe place' ;=) I am

> > aware that the person posing the question has answered in the

> negative,

> > for excellent reasons, and for that I applaud her. I don't want to

> stand

> > up and sound like a bigoted bitch (whatsa matta, you guys? It's

> okay to

> > discuss eating animals but not okay to use the word bigot?) who

> thinks

> > she is holier than the pope, etc etc (fill in your own words), but

> I

> > cannot do this. Absolutely effin not.

> >

> > Not so good let alone best,

> > Pat :=(

>

>

> I'm sorry you feel that way. The question was not intended to

> offend anyone, but to spark a discussion on why people choose not to

> eat animals. I am genuinely interested to learn how others feel

> about this. It is not intended to make anyone feel " unsafe " in any

> manner and you are welcome to ignore the question. I am genuinely a

> curious, questioning person. Curious minds want to know what other

> people think about this. I do not and will never advocate a meat-

> eating diet. I had this notion that there are people who are

> vegetarian purely for reasons of the horrible conditions in the

> slaughterhouses. It would stand to reason to me that if someone

> chose to boycott eating meat because of the way animals were

> treated, that they might consider eating meat if the conditions were

> different. It's kind of like boycotting a certain company because

> you dislike something they do and then as soon as they correct the

> problem, you could go back to purchasing their products. The

> conditions in the slaughterhouses are among my reasons for not

> eating meat, but even if they clean up their acts, I will not change

> my mind. My mind was made up as a child whose parents raised a

> couple of cows to slaughter. They were raised in decent conditions

> (to my knowledge at the time) and were slaughtered such. It had

> nothing to do with today's slaughterhouses and everything to do with

> just not wanting to eat animals period.

> Please don't be offended by the question. Anyone who knows me will

> tell you that I am absolutely a kind and caring person who makes

> every attempt to get along with everyone and offend none.

[Guest guest]

, " radcsusa " <radcsusa@n...>

wrote:

> I agree people went reading unfair and wrong things into your post.

 

Unfair? Wrong? Pretty strong words. Lets not fan flames

that do not exist, please.

 

>

> Asking people what they base their moral acts on is not hostility to

> the value. That'd be like arguing only terrorists would ask if

> locking people up indefinitely in Guantanamo violates habeas corpus,

> and therefore the questioners should get locked up too.

 

Again this is quite leap. I think this discussion, and the

way you are adding more to it, just goes to prove that it

is ended and should have ended long ago. Please stop

or be prepared to be placed on moderation.

 

>

> She didn't ask the question to challenge the value, she asked it to

> SOLIDIFY it, to ascertain for how many people vegetarianism rested

on

> conviction rather than shallowness and convenience. Weirdly, people

> were attacking a person who agreed with them, not who disagreed.

 

Oh please! Nobody attacked anyone personally, so stop it.

Pat asked if this was the right place for that sort of discussion

and expressed _politely_ that she felt it was going too far.

She didn't " attack " anyone.

It is _not_ our place to " ascertain " how many people are simply

vegetarian out of " conviction rather than shallowness and

convenience " . Who cares? It isn't our place here to judge people's

motivations to become vegetarian. The purpose of this list is to

lift up and encourage others who have chosen the vegetarian

path; to give them recipes and tools to lead them along

_whatever the reason_ they decided to become a vegetarian.

I saw the warning flags, and I believe rightly asked the

conversation to end as I felt it would go right where you

ended up taking it.... I have seen that sort of thing get

way out of hand on other lists, and I do not wish for it to

happen here.

 

I will NOT allow this discussion to ruin our list.

If you have something more to say on it to this poster or

another about it, take it offlist to private emails.

If anyone has problems with my decision on this, please

email me offlist as well.

Namaste

 

~ PT ~