Guest guest Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 On Thursday, August 5, 2004, at 07:16 AM, wrote: > Message: 18 > Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:19:04 -0700 (PDT) > reptile grrl <reptilegoddess > Re: one reply to recent anti-soy scare > > One thing he neglects to mention is what sort of soy Okinawans eat. Do > they eat more fermented soy, such as tempeh, miso, and soy sauce? Or do > they eat soy products such as tofu and soy beans? From the article: " ...Okinawan elders eat an average of two servings of flavonoid-rich soy products per day. " > > I've read that the Asians who do eat large amounts of soy eat it almost > exclusively fermented, or mixed with a fish broth whose enzymes aid in > the digestion of soy and counteract some of its ill effects. I've lived in Japan and this is flat-out not true. They eat a wide range of soy products and certainly not always with fish broth. Nor is there anything magical about fish broth; many other chemical compounds can achieve the same effects, vinegar for instance. > > And to be honest- his letter has just as much unproven opinion as did the > article he criticizes. And to be honest, no it didn't. He cites sources you can check. Go check them. > > radcsusa <radcsusa wrote: > am sure there are others but recently noticed this. > > http://www.foodrevolution.org/mothering.htm > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 I like how you criticized her the exact way she rudely corrects other people. Peace and Love...haha Coco The Stewarts [stews9] Thursday, August 05, 2004 9:51 AM Go Check Before Talking On Thursday, August 5, 2004, at 07:16 AM, wrote: > Message: 18 > Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:19:04 -0700 (PDT) > reptile grrl <reptilegoddess > Re: one reply to recent anti-soy scare > > One thing he neglects to mention is what sort of soy Okinawans eat. Do > they eat more fermented soy, such as tempeh, miso, and soy sauce? Or do > they eat soy products such as tofu and soy beans? From the article: " ...Okinawan elders eat an average of two servings of flavonoid-rich soy products per day. " > > I've read that the Asians who do eat large amounts of soy eat it almost > exclusively fermented, or mixed with a fish broth whose enzymes aid in > the digestion of soy and counteract some of its ill effects. I've lived in Japan and this is flat-out not true. They eat a wide range of soy products and certainly not always with fish broth. Nor is there anything magical about fish broth; many other chemical compounds can achieve the same effects, vinegar for instance. > > And to be honest- his letter has just as much unproven opinion as did the > article he criticizes. And to be honest, no it didn't. He cites sources you can check. Go check them. > > radcsusa <radcsusa wrote: > am sure there are others but recently noticed this. > > http://www.foodrevolution.org/mothering.htm > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 The Stewarts <stews9 wrote: >From the article: " ...Okinawan elders eat an average of two servings of flavonoid-rich soy products per day. " And this still doesn't say what kind. >And to be honest, no it didn't. He cites sources you can >check. Go check >them. I have checked most of them. This is research I've been doing for over a decade. The only difference is that when I ate soy, I thought that any article, book, or study which had something negative to say about soy was just propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 5, 2004 Report Share Posted August 5, 2004 i don't think Priscilla was being rude in her expression of her opinion on this soy article that was posted, and neither was Gene being rude when he expressed his opinion of her critique of the article. There is a difference between being blunt and straight forward and being insulting to an individual. We all need to be kind in our replies to individual persons here. Thank you. ~ pt ~ Child stirring in the web of your mother Do not be afraid Old man turning to walk through the door Do not be afraid ~ Joy Harjo, from the poem 'Morning Song' ~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~*~~~~~~~> , " Rebecca " <squinkabink@b...> wrote: > I like how you criticized her the exact way she rudely corrects other > people. > Peace and Love...haha > Coco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 rep, be sure to look at the lengthier examination linked at the end of the first item, http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm . just more useful, and slightly more specific, perspective to add in. , The Stewarts <stews9@c...> wrote: > > On Thursday, August 5, 2004, at 07:16 AM, > wrote: > > > Message: 18 > > Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:19:04 -0700 (PDT) > > reptile grrl <reptilegoddess> > > Re: one reply to recent anti-soy scare > > > > One thing he neglects to mention is what sort of soy Okinawans eat. Do > > they eat more fermented soy, such as tempeh, miso, and soy sauce? Or do > > they eat soy products such as tofu and soy beans? > > From the article: " ...Okinawan elders eat an average of two servings of > flavonoid-rich soy products per day. " > > > > I've read that the Asians who do eat large amounts of soy eat it almost > > exclusively fermented, or mixed with a fish broth whose enzymes aid in > > the digestion of soy and counteract some of its ill effects. > > I've lived in Japan and this is flat-out not true. They eat a wide range > of soy products and certainly not always with fish broth. Nor is there > anything magical about fish broth; many other chemical compounds can > achieve the same effects, vinegar for instance. > > > > And to be honest- his letter has just as much unproven opinion as did the > > article he criticizes. > > And to be honest, no it didn't. He cites sources you can check. Go check > them. > > > > radcsusa <radcsusa@n...> wrote: > > am sure there are others but recently noticed this. > > > > http://www.foodrevolution.org/mothering.htm > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2004 Report Share Posted August 6, 2004 This is a much better article! I think one of the lessons here (and this article supports this idea) is that small to moderate amounts of soy can be beneficial, but large amounts can be harmful. This is the case with many foods, such as, say, alcohol, fats in general, proteins in general. Too much protein of any kind can tax the kidneys, too much alcohol can damage the brain and liver, too much fat can clog the arteries and damage the liver, but in moderation all of these things are good for us. This article doesn't take into account, though, that millions of vegetarians are eating soy at every meal and sometimes in between. Also, sadly, I've noticed that many, many vegetarians are " junk food vegetarians " - eating very few actual vegetables, but lots and lots of starches, along with sugars and fats. They aren't getting the health benefits of vegetarianism cited in this article, because they aren't eating healthily. Also, the author seems to attribute all benefits of a vegetarian diet (such as in the list of health benefits, and in the description of the culinary program at the school) to eating soy foods, and I think that's unrealistic. In the case of the alternative school, more than one school system has shown that feeding a more nutritious diet (most schools feed atrocious diets) results in better grades and better behavior (one such school was featured in " Supersize Me " , too.) The author regards the " brain-boosting power of soy " as responsible for the increase in grade levels- the evidence suggests that it's more likely to be the brain-boosting power of vegetarianism as opposed to the mind-numbing power of meat, starch, and cholesterol all-day every-day. I don't think that eating soy at all is bad, but that basing one's diet around soy, eating it at every meal and in between, is unhealthy. As the author pointed out, it's still an experiment in progress. I still eat soy occasionally, but I no longer eat several " servings " it at every meal, and I can see that my own health has changed for the better. I'm curious about something said in the article, because it doesn't make sense. I've never seen this allegation before, and maybe you can shed some light on it. The article says that the soaking process in tofu reduces toxins, but also says that soy milk, which is a byproduct of that soaking, is low in those same toxins. Well, where do they go? I've always read before that when leached out of the beans, they end up in the soy milk. They can't just vanish. I just scrolled back to the top and had a moment of " omigod, it's the Baskin-Robbins guy! " I saw him interviewed in 'Supersize Me " . He ate nothing but junk food when he was a kid, and was sickly, and watched his dad and uncle die of heart problems that he believes are related to too much ice cream. So he has a personal war on fat going on. Anyway, thanks for the link. Even with the discrepancies noted above, this is a much better article, especially since it concludes by suggesting moderation. radcsusa <radcsusa wrote: rep, be sure to look at the lengthier examination linked at the end of the first item, http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm . just more useful, and slightly more specific, perspective to add in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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