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Hi,

 

DH and I have decided our choice of guardians for DD is no longer

appropriate. We are having a very difficult time choosing new

guardians. Our most important criteria is veganism or at least

vegetarianism. However, all potential guardians that would try to

follow this have been ruled out for very major reasons.

 

We are preparing to make a list of pros and cons for all family

members and friends, again. However, we have absolutely no one we

want to raise DD if we can't. Some of the other criteria we are

considering are religion, age and physical and mental/emotional

health, relationship with spouse and children and parenting style,

the time they spend with family and views on issues such as

environment, race, gender, politics and other. While it may seem that

we are insisting on the perfect person(s), we really aren't. The

people we know that aren't veg*n are in diametric opposition to most

of our beliefs. Even though I would want my child to be raised by

family or a close friend, I am scared for that to happen and

sometimes feel that foster care offers better odds. Of course I don't

want foster care for my daughter - I have seen how that usually turns

out! We are very frustrated and worried.

 

How have you handled potential guardians and veganism? What other

criteria have you used? Maybe one of your suggestions will give more

positive weight to our " candidates. "

 

Thanks,

Carrol

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I appreciate your question. I've been leery to travel with my husband without

my children because of the guardianship issue. I also have similar issues with

childcare, which is one reason I chose to be a stay-at-home mom.

 

The only person I would feel comfortable with caring for my children is my

mother, but she is terminally ill. My next choice is a close friend, but she is

single and has always had financial problems. I've come to the conclusion that

no one can take the place of Mommy and Daddy, and I just pray that God keeps my

husband and/or me around long enough for my children to reach adulthood. I've

heard too many horror stories about foster care and therefore, would not want

that option for my children.

 

 

-

rtillmansmail

Monday, August 07, 2006 12:27 AM

choosing guardians

 

 

Hi,

 

DH and I have decided our choice of guardians for DD is no longer

appropriate. We are having a very difficult time choosing new

guardians. Our most important criteria is veganism or at least

vegetarianism. However, all potential guardians that would try to

follow this have been ruled out for very major reasons.

 

We are preparing to make a list of pros and cons for all family

members and friends, again. However, we have absolutely no one we

want to raise DD if we can't. Some of the other criteria we are

considering are religion, age and physical and mental/emotional

health, relationship with spouse and children and parenting style,

the time they spend with family and views on issues such as

environment, race, gender, politics and other. While it may seem that

we are insisting on the perfect person(s), we really aren't. The

people we know that aren't veg*n are in diametric opposition to most

of our beliefs. Even though I would want my child to be raised by

family or a close friend, I am scared for that to happen and

sometimes feel that foster care offers better odds. Of course I don't

want foster care for my daughter - I have seen how that usually turns

out! We are very frustrated and worried.

 

How have you handled potential guardians and veganism? What other

criteria have you used? Maybe one of your suggestions will give more

positive weight to our " candidates. "

 

Thanks,

Carrol

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Did you ever see that episode of Cosby where the older daughter and

her husband have twins but refuse to be in the same place at any

time? They were afraid if they were in the same location, they would

perish together leaving the children parentless. They wore themselves

out trying to avoid each other. While this is not realistic and

doesn't lend itself towards a good marriage or stable family, I can

understand the point of the episode.

 

My grandmother was a great foster parent. I lived with her during

this time (I was going to college). She received many children that

suffered more at the hands of their foster parents than their own

parents. I would never want my child in foster home. I am just so

frustrated. I feel like it is a huge gamble with any of our family

members (other issues like parenting style, intolerance and religion

are a problem as well).

 

Someone advised we let go of our beliefs and chose somneone with a

good parenting style and a stable home. As I mentioned above, that is

definitley part of the problem. Two of our family members will work

with vegetarianism (not exclusively) but gentle parenting and

stablility are not in their vocabulary, or most of our family.

 

We are not old but are not young parents either. We are in our early

40's with a 3 year old. I expect to live forever but have to face the

reality that we could leave a minor parentless (I already have an

undiagnosed problem). Fortunately, as long as we are able to keep up

on insurance premiums etc, finances for our child won't be a problem.

And I have no problem pointing a trustee separate from the guardian.

 

We just don't want our child to be raised in a bad environment and

are trying to determine which is best. I don't want a judge making

the decision.

Carrol

 

, <admartin5 wrote:

>

> I appreciate your question. I've been leery to travel with my

husband without my children because of the guardianship issue. I

also have similar issues with childcare, which is one reason I chose

to be a stay-at-home mom.

>

> The only person I would feel comfortable with caring for my

children is my mother, but she is terminally ill. My next choice is

a close friend, but she is single and has always had financial

problems. I've come to the conclusion that no one can take the place

of Mommy and Daddy, and I just pray that God keeps my husband and/or

me around long enough for my children to reach adulthood. I've

heard too many horror stories about foster care and therefore, would

not want that option for my children.

>

>

>

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We have also wrestled with this. Mid '40s with a ten year old, we agonized over

this throughout my pregnance. We choose a close friend as guardian/godmother

for our daughter. We have been friends since we were five and her life

philosophy is closest to ours. Despite being single and childless (though she

is a teacher and has three dogs), we know that if we were not here, our friend

and daughter would be a great family and our daughter would remain involved with

her friends and blood relations.

 

rtillmansmail <rtillmansmail wrote: Did you ever see that episode of

Cosby where the older daughter and

her husband have twins but refuse to be in the same place at any

time? They were afraid if they were in the same location, they would

perish together leaving the children parentless. They wore themselves

out trying to avoid each other. While this is not realistic and

doesn't lend itself towards a good marriage or stable family, I can

understand the point of the episode.

 

My grandmother was a great foster parent. I lived with her during

this time (I was going to college). She received many children that

suffered more at the hands of their foster parents than their own

parents. I would never want my child in foster home. I am just so

frustrated. I feel like it is a huge gamble with any of our family

members (other issues like parenting style, intolerance and religion

are a problem as well).

 

Someone advised we let go of our beliefs and chose somneone with a

good parenting style and a stable home. As I mentioned above, that is

definitley part of the problem. Two of our family members will work

with vegetarianism (not exclusively) but gentle parenting and

stablility are not in their vocabulary, or most of our family.

 

We are not old but are not young parents either. We are in our early

40's with a 3 year old. I expect to live forever but have to face the

reality that we could leave a minor parentless (I already have an

undiagnosed problem). Fortunately, as long as we are able to keep up

on insurance premiums etc, finances for our child won't be a problem.

And I have no problem pointing a trustee separate from the guardian.

 

We just don't want our child to be raised in a bad environment and

are trying to determine which is best. I don't want a judge making

the decision.

Carrol

 

, wrote:

>

> I appreciate your question. I've been leery to travel with my

husband without my children because of the guardianship issue. I

also have similar issues with childcare, which is one reason I chose

to be a stay-at-home mom.

>

> The only person I would feel comfortable with caring for my

children is my mother, but she is terminally ill. My next choice is

a close friend, but she is single and has always had financial

problems. I've come to the conclusion that no one can take the place

of Mommy and Daddy, and I just pray that God keeps my husband and/or

me around long enough for my children to reach adulthood. I've

heard too many horror stories about foster care and therefore, would

not want that option for my children.

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

 

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

 

 

 

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we've considered this many times too. we have a 16-month-old and another on

the way. we're younger (22 and 27), but we're not so naive that we don't

realize that anything could happen at any time. so we've definitely

considered the issue. we're vegan, but really that's the least of our

lifestyle issues. my husband and i grew up in completely different

circumstances. there are pros and cons on both sides. on my side, my

stepmother was abusive to me, but she's turned around in some ways (at least

with physical violence) and she adores our son. my husband's parents are

complete opposites from mine. they would raise him with at least some

aspects of our spirituality, but not others. neither set of parents would

be willing to raise him vegetarian, much less vegan, or to

attachment-parent. neither set would consider alternative schooling. both

sides are extremely conservative politically. we love our parents, but

honestly there are more reasons why we would NOT want our children with them

than reasons why we would. but we recognize that in the event of our

deaths, if we don't have a decision laid out, there would be a huge legal

battle between our families (and our parents don't get along, so it would be

pretty ugly). so we thought long and hard about it. i'm an only child. my

husband has five siblings. so we thought a lot about his siblings. two we

ruled out immediately because they're too young. two others, married, we

ruled out because they don't share any of our values at all. but we are

very fortunate in that he has one sibling, a brother, who shares many of our

beliefs. we even converted him to vegetarianism and he's trying to push his

wife to become vegan with him also. he's in favor of homebirthing and

attachment-parenting. i'm a student midwife and he's already planning on me

catching their babies (she's a little more hesitant but he's working on her,

lol). they are both artists and quite liberal politically (but independent,

not democrats, which is also a plus!). they share our religion, although

he's sort of uncomfortably effusive about it. there are some other

drawbacks also (like i think they are both very immature, but then, they're

only 21), but i consider it a tremendous blessing that we have someone in

the family whom we trust who share many of our values and beliefs. and they

were completely receptive to the idea of becoming our son's guardians. so

on isaiah's first birthday we had them sign a paper stating that they would

become isaiah's legal guardians in the event of our deaths.

 

of course you have to compromise. i don't know about other people but i

know that my husband and i are extremely isolated in our values and belief

systems. so finding someone who was even remotely close to that was a

miracle, and we jumped on it. they know how we'd like to raise our kids,

how we're attempting to raise them. of course they have their own ideas,

but we just have to trust that at least we chose the closest approximation.

 

chandelle'

 

 

 

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I think two points which have already been brought up

are so important that they're worth repeating....

 

1) Have a will/trust naming the first choice guardian,

and a back-up. Anything/anyone is better than letting

the courts (and your respective families) duke it out.

 

2) If you're not independently wealthy, make sure you

have adequate life insurance payable to your children.

You can name a separate fiduciary (financial) trustee

to manage the money rather than the children's

guardian(s), if you want.

 

Taking on someone else's children because their

parents have died is enough of a shock without also

having to absorb all of the added costs. In addition,

if money isn't as much of an issue, you can consider

people you think would make good guardians but who

otherwise wouldn't have been able to take the

responsibility on.

 

FWIW, the guardians I've named are not vegetarian, and

their lifestyle isn't exactly like ours. However,

they would respect our diet WRT raising my children.

And they are honest, honourable, good people who love

my children, and whom my children love.

 

You can't have everything, so you have to prioritize.

 

Liz

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>My next choice is a close friend, but she is single and has always

>had financial problems.

 

i got around a similar problem that making sure my life insurance

policy provides enough for my daughter's care and pays off the house

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We have taken care of the financial issues. When we take veg'nism out

of the equation that leaves only people who have parentng styles we

can't stand. Things like intolerance, racism, shame and guilt,

spanking and " children are to be seen and not heard. " Heartbreaking

for me to think my dd would be raised by people like this. This even

includes our best childhood friends. We have grown so much more than

our family and friends. We are considering moving to an area that has

a larger community of veg*ns or AP parents just so we can make new

friends. Does anyone know which areas of the US this may be? I'm

serious. I mean, we are talking about moving for her education. So,

why not for her potential guardians?

 

Chandelle - that's great that you were able to do that. All of the

people in my life that are flexible are not in good enough health to

consider.

 

We thought we could count on one particular couple and then a single

friend but have found that these choices are just as bad as the

others.

Carrol

 

 

, ERB <bakwin wrote:

>

> I think two points which have already been brought up

> are so important that they're worth repeating....

>

> 1) Have a will/trust naming the first choice guardian,

> and a back-up. Anything/anyone is better than letting

> the courts (and your respective families) duke it out.

>

> 2) If you're not independently wealthy, make sure you

> have adequate life insurance payable to your children.

> You can name a separate fiduciary (financial) trustee

> to manage the money rather than the children's

> guardian(s), if you want.

>

> Taking on someone else's children because their

> parents have died is enough of a shock without also

> having to absorb all of the added costs. In addition,

> if money isn't as much of an issue, you can consider

> people you think would make good guardians but who

> otherwise wouldn't have been able to take the

> responsibility on.

>

> FWIW, the guardians I've named are not vegetarian, and

> their lifestyle isn't exactly like ours. However,

> they would respect our diet WRT raising my children.

> And they are honest, honourable, good people who love

> my children, and whom my children love.

>

> You can't have everything, so you have to prioritize.

>

> Liz

>

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Carrol,

 

I think you're doing exactly the right thing. Moving isn't a bad

idea. It sounds like you've out grown your current friends in more

than one way. The most vegan friendly place I know is Seattle, WA.

It's amazing and there is a true sense of community there. You

should check it out...maybe a vacation or a long weekend. You will

be impressed. Even the surrounding areas are very veggie/vegan

savvy. The school are good, as well.

 

Susan

, " rtillmansmail "

<rtillmansmail wrote:

>

> We have taken care of the financial issues. When we take veg'nism

out

> of the equation that leaves only people who have parentng styles

we

> can't stand. Things like intolerance, racism, shame and guilt,

> spanking and " children are to be seen and not heard. "

Heartbreaking

> for me to think my dd would be raised by people like this. This

even

> includes our best childhood friends. We have grown so much more

than

> our family and friends. We are considering moving to an area that

has

> a larger community of veg*ns or AP parents just so we can make new

> friends. Does anyone know which areas of the US this may be? I'm

> serious. I mean, we are talking about moving for her education.

So,

> why not for her potential guardians?

>

> Chandelle - that's great that you were able to do that. All of the

> people in my life that are flexible are not in good enough health

to

> consider.

>

> We thought we could count on one particular couple and then a

single

> friend but have found that these choices are just as bad as the

> others.

> Carrol

>

>

> , ERB <bakwin@> wrote:

> >

> > I think two points which have already been brought up

> > are so important that they're worth repeating....

> >

> > 1) Have a will/trust naming the first choice guardian,

> > and a back-up. Anything/anyone is better than letting

> > the courts (and your respective families) duke it out.

> >

> > 2) If you're not independently wealthy, make sure you

> > have adequate life insurance payable to your children.

> > You can name a separate fiduciary (financial) trustee

> > to manage the money rather than the children's

> > guardian(s), if you want.

> >

> > Taking on someone else's children because their

> > parents have died is enough of a shock without also

> > having to absorb all of the added costs. In addition,

> > if money isn't as much of an issue, you can consider

> > people you think would make good guardians but who

> > otherwise wouldn't have been able to take the

> > responsibility on.

> >

> > FWIW, the guardians I've named are not vegetarian, and

> > their lifestyle isn't exactly like ours. However,

> > they would respect our diet WRT raising my children.

> > And they are honest, honourable, good people who love

> > my children, and whom my children love.

> >

> > You can't have everything, so you have to prioritize.

> >

> > Liz

> >

>

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Carrol,

 

Come to Chicago! A wonderful, diverse city. Our daughter is in a public

school that was rated one of the top ten in the US. Please contact me offlist

if you have any questions.

 

Robin

 

rtillmansmail <rtillmansmail wrote:

We have taken care of the financial issues. When we take veg'nism out

of the equation that leaves only people who have parentng styles we

can't stand. Things like intolerance, racism, shame and guilt,

spanking and " children are to be seen and not heard. " Heartbreaking

for me to think my dd would be raised by people like this. This even

includes our best childhood friends. We have grown so much more than

our family and friends. We are considering moving to an area that has

a larger community of veg*ns or AP parents just so we can make new

friends. Does anyone know which areas of the US this may be? I'm

serious. I mean, we are talking about moving for her education. So,

why not for her potential guardians?

 

Chandelle - that's great that you were able to do that. All of the

people in my life that are flexible are not in good enough health to

consider.

 

We thought we could count on one particular couple and then a single

friend but have found that these choices are just as bad as the

others.

Carrol

 

 

, ERB wrote:

>

> I think two points which have already been brought up

> are so important that they're worth repeating....

>

> 1) Have a will/trust naming the first choice guardian,

> and a back-up. Anything/anyone is better than letting

> the courts (and your respective families) duke it out.

>

> 2) If you're not independently wealthy, make sure you

> have adequate life insurance payable to your children.

> You can name a separate fiduciary (financial) trustee

> to manage the money rather than the children's

> guardian(s), if you want.

>

> Taking on someone else's children because their

> parents have died is enough of a shock without also

> having to absorb all of the added costs. In addition,

> if money isn't as much of an issue, you can consider

> people you think would make good guardians but who

> otherwise wouldn't have been able to take the

> responsibility on.

>

> FWIW, the guardians I've named are not vegetarian, and

> their lifestyle isn't exactly like ours. However,

> they would respect our diet WRT raising my children.

> And they are honest, honourable, good people who love

> my children, and whom my children love.

>

> You can't have everything, so you have to prioritize.

>

> Liz

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

 

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

 

 

 

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Guest guest

We're in the process of moving to Austin, TX for the same reasons. There are

many veg only restaurants and veg friendly restaurants too. Definitely a true

sense of community, cool people, mild weather, great culture and music scene,

hilly and green, affordable and very liberal.

 

We were looking at Austin, Portland and Seattle as the top choices. N.Ca and

Boulder would have been great but we would not have been able to afford even a 1

room studio and my husband and I already lived in Colorado!! We decided on

Austin. Although, you can't go wrong with any of them!

 

earthgrlss <earthgrl wrote:

Carrol,

 

I think you're doing exactly the right thing. Moving isn't a bad

idea. It sounds like you've out grown your current friends in more

than one way. The most vegan friendly place I know is Seattle, WA.

It's amazing and there is a true sense of community there. You

should check it out...maybe a vacation or a long weekend. You will

be impressed. Even the surrounding areas are very veggie/vegan

savvy. The school are good, as well.

 

Susan

, " rtillmansmail "

<rtillmansmail wrote:

>

> We have taken care of the financial issues. When we take veg'nism

out

> of the equation that leaves only people who have parentng styles

we

> can't stand. Things like intolerance, racism, shame and guilt,

> spanking and " children are to be seen and not heard. "

Heartbreaking

> for me to think my dd would be raised by people like this. This

even

> includes our best childhood friends. We have grown so much more

than

> our family and friends. We are considering moving to an area that

has

> a larger community of veg*ns or AP parents just so we can make new

> friends. Does anyone know which areas of the US this may be? I'm

> serious. I mean, we are talking about moving for her education.

So,

> why not for her potential guardians?

>

> Chandelle - that's great that you were able to do that. All of the

> people in my life that are flexible are not in good enough health

to

> consider.

>

> We thought we could count on one particular couple and then a

single

> friend but have found that these choices are just as bad as the

> others.

> Carrol

>

>

> , ERB <bakwin@> wrote:

> >

> > I think two points which have already been brought up

> > are so important that they're worth repeating....

> >

> > 1) Have a will/trust naming the first choice guardian,

> > and a back-up. Anything/anyone is better than letting

> > the courts (and your respective families) duke it out.

> >

> > 2) If you're not independently wealthy, make sure you

> > have adequate life insurance payable to your children.

> > You can name a separate fiduciary (financial) trustee

> > to manage the money rather than the children's

> > guardian(s), if you want.

> >

> > Taking on someone else's children because their

> > parents have died is enough of a shock without also

> > having to absorb all of the added costs. In addition,

> > if money isn't as much of an issue, you can consider

> > people you think would make good guardians but who

> > otherwise wouldn't have been able to take the

> > responsibility on.

> >

> > FWIW, the guardians I've named are not vegetarian, and

> > their lifestyle isn't exactly like ours. However,

> > they would respect our diet WRT raising my children.

> > And they are honest, honourable, good people who love

> > my children, and whom my children love.

> >

> > You can't have everything, so you have to prioritize.

> >

> > Liz

> >

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

" The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated. "

Gandhi

 

 

 

" Each man is haunted until his humanity awakens " Blake

 

 

 

" Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up every

preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss Nature leads,

or you shall learn nothing. " T.H. Huxley

 

 

 

Everyone is raving about the all-new Mail Beta.

 

 

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<<We are considering moving to an area that has a

larger community of veg*ns or AP parents just so we

can make new friends. Does anyone know which areas of

the US this may be?>>

 

Any big city or university town would be a huge

improvement to your current situation.

 

Every state has some place....even Texas has Austin.

Which part of the country are you in? And are your

jobs transferable?

 

Liz

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, " rtillmansmail " <rtillmansmail

wrote:

>

> We have taken care of the financial issues. When we take veg'nism

out

> of the equation that leaves only people who have parentng styles we

> can't stand. Things like intolerance, racism, shame and guilt,

> spanking and " children are to be seen and not heard. " ......

...Does anyone know which areas of the US this may be? I'm

> serious. I mean, we are talking about moving for her education. So,

why not for her potential guardians?...

 

Oh, please consider Jersey Village, TX! No, not really. We have some

decent schools, but I think I'm the only vegetarian in this part of

the Houston area.

 

I have a similar problem with finding a guardian. My husband wants to

name his sister - who may or may not respect vegetarian. BUT she's a

smoker - UGGGHH!

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We can't wait to have y'all here, Tricia!

:-)

Amy

 

On Aug 9, 2006, at 12:12 PM, wrote:

 

> 2c. Re: choosing guardians

> Posted by: " Tricia McElwee " triciamcelwee triciamcelwee

> Wed Aug 9, 2006 5:15 am (PDT)

>

> We're in the process of moving to Austin, TX for the same reasons.

> There are many veg only restaurants and veg friendly restaurants

> too. Definitely a true sense of community, cool people, mild

> weather, great culture and music scene, hilly and green, affordable

> and very liberal.

>

> We were looking at Austin, Portland and Seattle as the top

> choices. N.Ca and Boulder would have been great but we would not

> have been able to afford even a 1 room studio and my husband and I

> already lived in Colorado!! We decided on Austin. Although, you

> can't go wrong with any of them!

 

 

 

 

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Thank you :-) Soooo looking forward to it.

 

Amy Nylund <austinvegan wrote: We can't wait to have y'all

here, Tricia!

:-)

Amy

 

On Aug 9, 2006, at 12:12 PM, wrote:

 

> 2c. Re: choosing guardians

> Posted by: " Tricia McElwee " triciamcelwee triciamcelwee

> Wed Aug 9, 2006 5:15 am (PDT)

>

> We're in the process of moving to Austin, TX for the same reasons.

> There are many veg only restaurants and veg friendly restaurants

> too. Definitely a true sense of community, cool people, mild

> weather, great culture and music scene, hilly and green, affordable

> and very liberal.

>

> We were looking at Austin, Portland and Seattle as the top

> choices. N.Ca and Boulder would have been great but we would not

> have been able to afford even a 1 room studio and my husband and I

> already lived in Colorado!! We decided on Austin. Although, you

> can't go wrong with any of them!

 

 

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> We have grown so much more than our family and friends. We are considering

> moving to an area that has a larger community of veg*ns or AP parents just so

> we can make new friends. Does anyone know which areas of the US this may be?

> I'm serious. I mean, we are talking about moving for her education. So, why

not

> for her potential guardians?

 

How about the Philadelphia, PA area or Bethlehem, PA. We live between the two

and both

are veggie friendly. Plenty of health food stores. More and more veg restaurants

opening

up. The area has alot of great school districts and many colleges & universities

to choose

from. There are also many veg groups active in the area. I read an article

recently (I forget

where) that Bethlehem is one of the best places to retire and Philly was named

by National

Geographic traveler as the next young & hip city to move to. The area's economy

is

booming too! Lots to do outdoors as well. Philly has the largest city park

system in the

country and Pennsylvania has more state parks than any state, so you're never

far from the

country if you like that.

 

Too place my opinion in context, I grew up in NW Pennsylvania in a small rural

dairy

farming communtiy and am not too fond of urban and suburban areas, but I live

here now

(my wife is from Philly) and am pretty happy with where I am. If I just could

afford 100

acres to have my farm!

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We were in Philly about 5 years ago. I did notice how veg friendly it

is. And, although my husband was raised in Atlanta, he was born in

Philly. He lived in Upper Darby (or is it Lower Darby?) for his first

6 years. None of his family lives in PA now but I will mention it to

him. When we considered it years ago we were childless with different

priorities. It seems that maybe the crime rate was an issue at that

time. Do you have info on this?

 

We love the parks and outdoor activities. How else would you describe

the area you live in - size, transportation, culture, etc.? Can you

get houses with real yards (not farm sized!) without paying a

fortune? I'll look some of this up but first hand experience is

always handy.

 

Thanks for the reminder!

Carrol

 

 

> How about the Philadelphia, PA area or Bethlehem, PA. We live

between the two and both

> are veggie friendly. Plenty of health food stores. More and more

veg restaurants opening

> up. The area has alot of great school districts and many colleges &

universities to choose

> from. There are also many veg groups active in the area. I read an

article recently (I forget

> where) that Bethlehem is one of the best places to retire and

Philly was named by National

> Geographic traveler as the next young & hip city to move to. The

area's economy is

> booming too! Lots to do outdoors as well. Philly has the largest

city park system in the

> country and Pennsylvania has more state parks than any state, so

you're never far from the

> country if you like that.

>

> Too place my opinion in context, I grew up in NW Pennsylvania in a

small rural dairy

> farming communtiy and am not too fond of urban and suburban areas,

but I live here now

> (my wife is from Philly) and am pretty happy with where I am. If I

just could afford 100

> acres to have my farm!

>

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The whole Delaware Valley (SE Penn) is quite a large area. It is like many

metropolitin

areas. Remember we are part of the Megalopolis that stretches from Washington

D.C to

Boston. Every open space that isn't protected is being taken up with housing,

commercial

interests and buisiness. That being said, you can find houses with a small bit

of land

usually around .2 acres.

 

Philadelphia & the Deleware Valley has pretty decent public transportation (for

the US) and

there is a push to expand it. We definitely need it as the major and minor

thoroughfares

are becoming more and more congested.

 

The prices have been increasing rapidly, but I think we're more affordable than

other areas

like Boston, NY and San Francisco. The real estate market has certainly cooled

down this

year. My wife and I bought our 1440 sq. ft. townhouse with .08 acres, 4 years

ago for

$115,000 and we are selling right now for $188,900. Similar homes in our

development

have sold for $190,000-$195,000.

 

We are moving closer to Philly to be close to my DW's family and a comperable

house just

outside the city limits are going from $200,000 to $250,000, depending on the

community.

 

Just to give some visual, here's a link to our house. Notice the organic, raised

bed garden

that gives us lots of delicious goodies. The covered stuff is my basil that the

japaneese

beetles have been trying to destroy.

 

http://WebLinks.trendmls.com/Ecard/Ecard.asp?

DM=CV & i=25776512 & e=5714 & k=57%2E047

 

I hope this helps!

 

David

 

 

 

> We love the parks and outdoor activities. How else would you describe

> the area you live in - size, transportation, culture, etc.? Can you

> get houses with real yards (not farm sized!) without paying a

> fortune? I'll look some of this up but first hand experience is

> always handy.

>

> Thanks for the reminder!

> Carrol

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>

>How about the Philadelphia, PA area or Bethlehem, PA.

 

 

I live about 8 miles outside of Bethlehem and while there are a lot

of stores that make veg living possible and some restaurants and

stuff, I think the rapidly changing character of the area makes it

hard to recommend to anyone. Housing costs are skyrocketing-- I

bought my half a double in '03 for 95k, my friend bought a similar

but slightly smaller home in 04 for 120K and now it would be $150.

It's hard to find jobs that pay decently close to home. Plus with all

the commercial and residential development, and the potential of

casinos in Bethlehem, who know what kind of situation the area will

be in in five years? Plus the public transport here is very limited

and the highways can be troublesome, but nothing like traffic in

major metropolis areas.

 

I'm also editor of a newspaper in Bethlehem.

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