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Hi!

My husband and I have been vegan since about 1995. We have 5 kiddos,

all vegan since birth. I have always been happy with our choice to

be vegan and never doubted it! I have Dr.Klaper books and I have

read John Robbins " Diet For a New America " . I recently joined the

mothering bbs to discuss homeschooling and veganism (there is a

specific vegan board). Well I quickly realized that many folks on

that bbs PUMP the " nurturing traditions " diet (aka raw milk and

organic meat). I had never heard of this diet OR Weston A Price

foundation. I have since checked their website, read the anti-soy

Mothering article and the John Robbins article in response to that

article. I'm not buying the anti-soy stuff. BUT I'm wondering about

our diet, what should we eat, what shouldn't we eat. We eat fruits

and veggies, but also proccessed veggie meats and lots of Silk soy

milk. I would love to hear opinions about going raw, and what you

all think is the " best " diet. I know it is each person's opinion, I

want to hear them all! I left the Mothering bbs because I didn't

want to hear one more person talk about the Weston A Price

Foundation and " just look at the site..the facts are astoudning " !

I hope I'm not opening a can of worms! I look forward to hearing

from some of you!

Rebecca

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Hi! I'm new to the list too. I've been a vegetarian 10 years. All that stuff

about raw milk and organic meat... blah. Cow's milk is designed for cows, not

humans. Raw or otherwise. And meat... ah, here I go. If we're supposed to drink

raw milk, why not raw meat? Because we're not carnivores. Physically. We're not

built to digest meat. ALL natural carnivores eat raw meat. Tigers, bears,

snakes, wolves, you just don't see them around a barbecue grill cooking up their

latest kill. They're designed to digest meat. Our digestive systems turn meat

into poison when we eat it with stuff that takes longer to digest, like grains.

Why else do vegetarians and vegans have lower cancer rates? Organic or not,

we're simply not built to digest it. I've seen the site for all that, and to

each their own. I won't take my chances. Just me. In my opinion, for my family,

I think a maximum amount of fruits and vegetables are the best, and other stuff,

like meat alternatives, soy/rice/whatever

milk, bread, grains, and whatever else are next, and last comes sweets and junk

food. We do eat our fair share of junk food, but I figure we deserve it for our

good dietary deeds. :) It's great because where most kids my daughter's age

would be wanting cookies or candy, my Leah will beg and plead and do just about

anything for what?? Broccoli. She freaks people out at restaurants. She wants

broccoli, she tells the waitress, and she eats every single bite. Then she wants

more. Carrots, too. Plain, raw carrots. She screams like a little hellion if I

cut the tops off, so she eats the whole thing. The more fruits and vegetables a

child gets, the better. Raw if possible. They'll grow to prefer those things

over sweets as they get older. I wasn't raised vegetarian, I switched when I was

12, but my mom really got me hooked on good stuff. Give me strawberries or a

carrot over a bag of candy any day. While I was pregnant, both times, I had

horrible, insatiable cravings for brussels

sprouts. I ate those things like mad. Sometimes two 16 ounce bags in a day.

Some days I would eat nothing else. I was kind of surprised that I got white

babies- I figured they'd be green!! The anti-soy stuff... Too much of anything

is a bad thing. If 75% of a person's diet was raw spinach, they'd have problems,

no matter how good spinach is for you. Soy milk with soy " meat " and roasted

soynuts, plus tofu and TVP and soy, soy, soy, well of course that's not

balanced. But soymilk with cereal and a Gardenburger portabella patty sandwich

with veggies, plus a glass of tea and some fruit, that's balanced. I don't think

it's really an issue of soy being bad, it's just an issue of " too much of a good

thing. "

Well there's my own personal opinion. :) I know it does get irritating having

one view completely shut down those with a minority opinion. Just today I

unsubscibed from my favorite list, for people with pet rats, because everyone

but me and one other person hates PETA and won't shut up about it. So yeah, I

look forward to reading everyone's responses too. It's always nice to know what

other vegetarians are doing. :)

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

loghomeschool <rebecca_richard wrote:

Hi!

My husband and I have been vegan since about 1995. We have 5 kiddos,

all vegan since birth. I have always been happy with our choice to

be vegan and never doubted it! I have Dr.Klaper books and I have

read John Robbins " Diet For a New America " . I recently joined the

mothering bbs to discuss homeschooling and veganism (there is a

specific vegan board). Well I quickly realized that many folks on

that bbs PUMP the " nurturing traditions " diet (aka raw milk and

organic meat). I had never heard of this diet OR Weston A Price

foundation. I have since checked their website, read the anti-soy

Mothering article and the John Robbins article in response to that

article. I'm not buying the anti-soy stuff. BUT I'm wondering about

our diet, what should we eat, what shouldn't we eat. We eat fruits

and veggies, but also proccessed veggie meats and lots of Silk soy

milk. I would love to hear opinions about going raw, and what you

all think is the " best " diet. I know it is each person's opinion, I

want to hear them all! I left the Mothering bbs because I didn't

want to hear one more person talk about the Weston A Price

Foundation and " just look at the site..the facts are astoudning " !

I hope I'm not opening a can of worms! I look forward to hearing

from some of you!

Rebecca

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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i hear you on irritation about people peddling those diets. i belong to a

couple different attachment-parenting groups and it seems like every time i

make a health suggestion i've got someone in there saying, go to the weston

price website to see why that's wrong... one woman was suggesting to

another, a woman who was in the process of going vegan, that she feed her

iron-deficient baby LIVER. i was like, um, excuse me, but the liver is the

garbage disposal of the body. PLEASE don't even eat it yourself much less

feed it to your baby! and of course she was there with the weston price

advice that the liver actually neutralizes toxins and a whole host of other

BS. it's very frustrating.

 

 

 

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In the sixties, pediatricians told mothers to mix raw, scraped liver with

whatever went into the bottle (milk and corn syrup). My mother was told to stop

breastfeeding in 1961 because I was too fat.

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: i hear you on irritation about

people peddling those diets. i belong to a

couple different attachment-parenting groups and it seems like every time i

make a health suggestion i've got someone in there saying, go to the weston

price website to see why that's wrong... one woman was suggesting to

another, a woman who was in the process of going vegan, that she feed her

iron-deficient baby LIVER. i was like, um, excuse me, but the liver is the

garbage disposal of the body. PLEASE don't even eat it yourself much less

feed it to your baby! and of course she was there with the weston price

advice that the liver actually neutralizes toxins and a whole host of other

BS. it's very frustrating.

 

 

 

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I shudder at this. I'm glad to have been born in the 80's. Raw liver in a

bottle? Uggggggh. I'm gonna go get the kids a nice, safe carrot to eat. :)

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: In the

sixties, pediatricians told mothers to mix raw, scraped liver with whatever went

into the bottle (milk and corn syrup). My mother was told to stop breastfeeding

in 1961 because I was too fat.

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: i hear you on irritation about

people peddling those diets. i belong to a

couple different attachment-parenting groups and it seems like every time i

make a health suggestion i've got someone in there saying, go to the weston

price website to see why that's wrong... one woman was suggesting to

another, a woman who was in the process of going vegan, that she feed her

iron-deficient baby LIVER. i was like, um, excuse me, but the liver is the

garbage disposal of the body. PLEASE don't even eat it yourself much less

feed it to your baby! and of course she was there with the weston price

advice that the liver actually neutralizes toxins and a whole host of other

BS. it's very frustrating.

 

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The thing is the westonprice people only have their own faulty theories

backing them up. Do any decent search of the scientific literature and you

will literally find REAMS of studies showing that a plantbased diet reduces

the incidence of most diseases that plague the western hemisphere: diabetes,

cancers of all kinds, heart disease in its many forms, other vascular

diseases, etc etc. That's why scientific studies are important. There is an

undeniably huge weight of evidence proving that if you eat a diet that is

overwhelmingly composed of whole grains, fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds,

legumes, and some healthy fats/oils sparingly, you will be much healthier.

No one can deny the research. People who tout the benefits of raw milk,

organic meat, organ meats are not interested in the evidence. People should

familiarize themselves with the nutrition research done over the last 100

years, and it will be clear to them how they should eat if they want to

maximize their health.

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I shutter too, I'm glad my mom and dad were vegetarian, as was our family

doctor growing up. This is just disgusting, that a doctor would even suggest

this.

-

Kadee M

Thursday, September 14, 2006 12:21 PM

Re: Intro and some questions

 

 

I shudder at this. I'm glad to have been born in the 80's. Raw liver in a

bottle? Uggggggh. I'm gonna go get the kids a nice, safe carrot to eat. :)

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: In the sixties, pediatricians told

mothers to mix raw, scraped liver with whatever went into the bottle (milk and

corn syrup). My mother was told to stop breastfeeding in 1961 because I was too

fat.

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: i hear you on irritation about

people peddling those diets. i belong to a

couple different attachment-parenting groups and it seems like every time i

make a health suggestion i've got someone in there saying, go to the weston

price website to see why that's wrong... one woman was suggesting to

another, a woman who was in the process of going vegan, that she feed her

iron-deficient baby LIVER. i was like, um, excuse me, but the liver is the

garbage disposal of the body. PLEASE don't even eat it yourself much less

feed it to your baby! and of course she was there with the weston price

advice that the liver actually neutralizes toxins and a whole host of other

BS. it's very frustrating.

 

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I think it's important to note that there is diversity

in every era. I was also very young in 1961, but

living in a household that ate whole grain bread, no

processed foods, significantly less meat and

significantly more fruits & vegetables (and fresh, not

canned) than the norm. Healthy diets were possible,

even then. Of course, we were considered very weird

at the time by some people, but not as many as you'd

think.

 

Meanwhile, it's in recent times that notions like the

South Beach Diet have proliferated. Access to more

possibilities doesn't always mean that people make

better choices.

 

Liz

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My mother was the only one on the block who breastfed, though she smoked at the

time (late '50s and early '60s).

 

ERB <bakwin wrote: I think it's important to note that there is

diversity

in every era. I was also very young in 1961, but

living in a household that ate whole grain bread, no

processed foods, significantly less meat and

significantly more fruits & vegetables (and fresh, not

canned) than the norm. Healthy diets were possible,

even then. Of course, we were considered very weird

at the time by some people, but not as many as you'd

think.

 

Meanwhile, it's in recent times that notions like the

South Beach Diet have proliferated. Access to more

possibilities doesn't always mean that people make

better choices.

 

Liz

 

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

 

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

 

 

 

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You know you're very lucky? I wasn't raised vegetarian, but I got here as fast

as I could! I'm so glad my kids get to be raised this way! :)

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

wwjd <jtwigg wrote: I shutter

too, I'm glad my mom and dad were vegetarian, as was our family doctor growing

up. This is just disgusting, that a doctor would even suggest this.

-

Kadee M

Thursday, September 14, 2006 12:21 PM

Re: Intro and some questions

 

I shudder at this. I'm glad to have been born in the 80's. Raw liver in a

bottle? Uggggggh. I'm gonna go get the kids a nice, safe carrot to eat. :)

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: In the sixties, pediatricians told

mothers to mix raw, scraped liver with whatever went into the bottle (milk and

corn syrup). My mother was told to stop breastfeeding in 1961 because I was too

fat.

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: i hear you on irritation about

people peddling those diets. i belong to a

couple different attachment-parenting groups and it seems like every time i

make a health suggestion i've got someone in there saying, go to the weston

price website to see why that's wrong... one woman was suggesting to

another, a woman who was in the process of going vegan, that she feed her

iron-deficient baby LIVER. i was like, um, excuse me, but the liver is the

garbage disposal of the body. PLEASE don't even eat it yourself much less

feed it to your baby! and of course she was there with the weston price

advice that the liver actually neutralizes toxins and a whole host of other

BS. it's very frustrating.

 

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That is such a good point!

 

-

ERB

Thursday, September 14, 2006 3:01 PM

Re: Intro and some questions

 

 

 

I think it's important to note that there is diversity

in every era. I was also very young in 1961, but

living in a household that ate whole grain bread, no

processed foods, significantly less meat and

significantly more fruits & vegetables (and fresh, not

canned) than the norm. Healthy diets were possible,

even then. Of course, we were considered very weird

at the time by some people, but not as many as you'd

think.

 

Meanwhile, it's in recent times that notions like the

South Beach Diet have proliferated. Access to more

possibilities doesn't always mean that people make

better choices.

 

Liz

 

 

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Yeah, years ago I actually came across the " formula " the hospital sent home with

my Mom in 1963 when I was born. It was evaporated milk and corn syrup! Now I ask

you, where is the nutrition in THAT recipe?? My mother attempted to breast feed

my older brother in the late '50's but had no encouragement or support and

wasn't successful. I can't believe the thinking from that era. Well, even in the

'80's when I nursed my kids, my friends thought I was a loon. People should

realize rubber nipples are not what has gotten the human to suvive for all these

millions of years! Formula makes no sense to me at all!

And I think liver tastes bad for a reason....

 

-

Kadee M

Thursday, September 14, 2006 1:21 PM

Re: Intro and some questions

 

 

 

I shudder at this. I'm glad to have been born in the 80's. Raw liver in a

bottle? Uggggggh. I'm gonna go get the kids a nice, safe carrot to eat. :)

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: In the sixties, pediatricians told

mothers to mix raw, scraped liver with whatever went into the bottle (milk and

corn syrup). My mother was told to stop breastfeeding in 1961 because I was

too fat.

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: i hear you on irritation about

people peddling those diets. i belong to a

couple different attachment-parenting groups and it seems like every time i

make a health suggestion i've got someone in there saying, go to the weston

price website to see why that's wrong... one woman was suggesting to

another, a woman who was in the process of going vegan, that she feed her

iron-deficient baby LIVER. i was like, um, excuse me, but the liver is the

garbage disposal of the body. PLEASE don't even eat it yourself much less

feed it to your baby! and of course she was there with the weston price

advice that the liver actually neutralizes toxins and a whole host of other

BS. it's very frustrating.

 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

For more information about vegetarianism, please visit the VRG website at

http://www.vrg.org and for materials especially useful for families go to

http://www.vrg.org/family.This is a discussion list and is not intended to

provide personal medical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a

qualified health professional.

 

edical advice. Medical advice should be obtained from a qualified health

professional.

 

Links

 

 

 

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This string of emails has been very interesting. I belong to

a " natural living " in my area. They're always talking

about Weston Price and organic meat, etc. When I think " natural

living, " I'm not thinking what they're thinking, but once in a while

someone posts something useful for me, so I stay. Actually just

recently it was pointed out to me by a vegetarian on the board (who's

in a veggie group with me, too) that the " natural living " group

follows the " nurturing traditions " diet. I didn't even know what it

was. I just knew there was a lot of talk about raw milks and organic

meat on the board. They must not like me bc my signature has a link to

my veg*n playgroup!!! Someone did recently post an article about how

humans evolved to eat meat. I didn't post a reply bc I really don't

care what they think, and they wouldn't listen to what I had to say,

so why bother. I'm a vegan for ethical reasons and just enjoy the

health benefits as a bonus, so their information, correct or not (and

I don't think it is), doesn't influence my diet. Like someone else

said, all things in moderation, and I have a chocolate soy milk

addiction myself, so easier said than done on that front. :)

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I feel very lucky. You children will too... I can't even imagine raising mine

any other way. It is good to teach them how to stand up against anyone that

would try to convince them otherwise. You know the say " If you don't stand

for something, you fall for anything " ....

 

Here'e to all the healthier children that are being raised by parents here, to

all the animals that won't have to die for our diner tables and to all the land

that will be far better used for raising grains that we can eat instead of

feeding them to animals. I remember hearing John Robbins, say something like,

that it take 10 acreas of grain, to produce one pound of beef.. Can you imagine

how many things could have been made into food for folks with all that grain,

but instead only reaped one lb of beef..........?

Judy

-

Kadee M

Thursday, September 14, 2006 3:41 PM

Re: Intro and some questions

 

 

You know you're very lucky? I wasn't raised vegetarian, but I got here as fast

as I could! I'm so glad my kids get to be raised this way! :)

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

wwjd <jtwigg wrote: I shutter too, I'm glad my mom and dad

were vegetarian, as was our family doctor growing up. This is just disgusting,

that a doctor would even suggest this.

-

Kadee M

Thursday, September 14, 2006 12:21 PM

Re: Intro and some questions

 

I shudder at this. I'm glad to have been born in the 80's. Raw liver in a

bottle? Uggggggh. I'm gonna go get the kids a nice, safe carrot to eat. :)

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: In the sixties, pediatricians told

mothers to mix raw, scraped liver with whatever went into the bottle (milk and

corn syrup). My mother was told to stop breastfeeding in 1961 because I was too

fat.

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: i hear you on irritation about

people peddling those diets. i belong to a

couple different attachment-parenting groups and it seems like every time i

make a health suggestion i've got someone in there saying, go to the weston

price website to see why that's wrong... one woman was suggesting to

another, a woman who was in the process of going vegan, that she feed her

iron-deficient baby LIVER. i was like, um, excuse me, but the liver is the

garbage disposal of the body. PLEASE don't even eat it yourself much less

feed it to your baby! and of course she was there with the weston price

advice that the liver actually neutralizes toxins and a whole host of other

BS. it's very frustrating.

 

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(...) There is an

> undeniably huge weight of evidence proving that if

> you eat a diet that is

> overwhelmingly composed of whole grains, fruits,

> vegetables, nuts, seeds,

> legumes, and some healthy fats/oils sparingly, you

> will be much healthier.

> No one can deny the research. People who tout the

> benefits of raw milk,

> organic meat, organ meats are not interested in the

> evidence. People should

> familiarize themselves with the nutrition research

> done over the last 100

> years, and it will be clear to them how they should

> eat if they want to

> maximize their health.

------

A hearty second to that. Adele Davis wrote several

popular books in the '60's about modern diet and

health. She had a lot of good points but maintained

all that crap about organ meats, etc. She died of

cancer, I believe, aged 70, around 1970. She said it

was because of the junk she ate at 20; I knew better

even as a teenager.

 

~DJ

 

 

Correo

Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!

Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol./

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Seems that a *lot* of meat-eaters get cancer. After seeing my uncle Jim, who I

absolutely adored, die very slowly of cancer, I do all I can to minimize my risk

of that, and even more I try to minimize my husband's and children's risk of it.

I can't imagine the pain people feel as they die of cancer. I know my uncle Jim

hurt a lot. He was in home hospice for a while, then at the hospital till he

died, and even with the painkillers he got, he was still in excruciating pain

all the time. Don't people look at statistics? While I do feel very deeply sorry

for anyone who has to go through that, I really wonder how much they did in

their lives to try and prevent it.

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

DJ <doovinator wrote: (...) There is

an

> undeniably huge weight of evidence proving that if

> you eat a diet that is

> overwhelmingly composed of whole grains, fruits,

> vegetables, nuts, seeds,

> legumes, and some healthy fats/oils sparingly, you

> will be much healthier.

> No one can deny the research. People who tout the

> benefits of raw milk,

> organic meat, organ meats are not interested in the

> evidence. People should

> familiarize themselves with the nutrition research

> done over the last 100

> years, and it will be clear to them how they should

> eat if they want to

> maximize their health.

------

A hearty second to that. Adele Davis wrote several

popular books in the '60's about modern diet and

health. She had a lot of good points but maintained

all that crap about organ meats, etc. She died of

cancer, I believe, aged 70, around 1970. She said it

was because of the junk she ate at 20; I knew better

even as a teenager.

 

~DJ

 

Correo

Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis!

Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol./

 

 

 

 

 

 

Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Small

Business.

 

 

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And I'm grateful to my mother and to the nurses of the small hospital I

was born in on Prince Edward Island, late sixties who at my mother's

request went and found a nurse who had " instructions " on how to

breastfeed. It was an odd thing to do back then. But this nurse who knew

something about breastfeeding sat there and read the directions to my

mother. Seems funny in hindsight.

 

I think that was after they attended to my father who was in the

delivery room and apparently needed more medical help than my mom!

 

~P :)

 

robin koloms wrote:

> My mother was the only one on the block who breastfed, though she smoked at

the time (late '50s and early '60s).

 

--

www.mackenziewild.ca

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