WAP/sweeteners/beeswax woes

[Guest guest]

this is a breath of fresh air! i'm on a couple different AP/natural

parenting groups and i always feel like i'm drowning in a sea of NT/WAP

fanatics. it sucks because their arguments sound so sensible, even though

they're NOT...and if i try to counter them, i end up sounding like the

zealot. sigh.

 

in place of honey...we sort of only used honey for herbal teas and

occasionally bread, since we make our own. in tea i use molasses and/or

agave nectar. in bread we use brown rice syrup. we use BRS a lot,

actually. if we need a dry sugar we use organic unrefined fair trade cane

sugar. or sucanat, if we need a richer taste. i've never used barley

malt syrup but i understand some people use that as a " wet " sugar also. i

also know a lot of people use stevia, but i'm not brave enough yet.

supposedly it's hard to get the measurements right and if you screw it up

it's REALLY screwed up. we use sugar very sparingly so to us, usually when

we use it it's because we need the actual flavor of sugar, not just a

sweetener, if that makes sense.

 

i'm really bummed about this, but my husband is a waldorf teacher, and

recently we've gotten into using beeswax. waldorf education is heavy on

natural materials, like they only use wooden toys and organic cotton.

they're also heavy on wool, which i won't use no matter what, although i

know our kids will be exposed to it at school, but we'll educate them on it

and why we won't have it at home. and they're quite heavy on the use of

beeswax, in their crayons and other coloring materials, and as a modeling

medium. they use it because they consider it a good alternative to

petroleum-based products, and i'm inclined to agree. it sucks because it's

actually really cool stuff. i've played with it at the school myself and i

can definitely see the value of it. we haven't bought any on our own, thank

goodness, but i'm feeling vegan guilt hard-core. it's very

frustrating. i'd like to stick to only " natural " products also, but not if

that means animal products (and let's face it -- it usually does). on my

other groups people promote wool diaper " soakers " heavily, and my

understanding is they really ARE the best. my first choice isn't using

petroleum-based PUL diaper covers! but i like sheep more than i like wool,

you know? sigh. it seems like since we've gone vegan it's been one long

stream of compromises that we don't always feel great about, especially when

it seems like we're damaging the environment with some of our

animal-product-avoidance choices. i'm NOT going omni or anything or bashing

the vegan way of life by any means...it's just frustrating sometimes

weighing every little thing. anyone else have this feeling?

 

chandelle' in UT

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

If it makes you feel better, my husband's head sometimes turns into a bare skull

with fire coming out the eye sockets when I bring up getting rid of eggs.

It's awesome that you think so much. If only the rest of the world would

consider things as deeply as you are doing, we would have far fewer problems.

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote:

this is a breath of fresh air! i'm on a couple different AP/natural

parenting groups and i always feel like i'm drowning in a sea of NT/WAP

fanatics. it sucks because their arguments sound so sensible, even though

they're NOT...and if i try to counter them, i end up sounding like the

zealot. sigh.

 

in place of honey...we sort of only used honey for herbal teas and

occasionally bread, since we make our own. in tea i use molasses and/or

agave nectar. in bread we use brown rice syrup. we use BRS a lot,

actually. if we need a dry sugar we use organic unrefined fair trade cane

sugar. or sucanat, if we need a richer taste. i've never used barley

malt syrup but i understand some people use that as a " wet " sugar also. i

also know a lot of people use stevia, but i'm not brave enough yet.

supposedly it's hard to get the measurements right and if you screw it up

it's REALLY screwed up. we use sugar very sparingly so to us, usually when

we use it it's because we need the actual flavor of sugar, not just a

sweetener, if that makes sense.

 

i'm really bummed about this, but my husband is a waldorf teacher, and

recently we've gotten into using beeswax. waldorf education is heavy on

natural materials, like they only use wooden toys and organic cotton.

they're also heavy on wool, which i won't use no matter what, although i

know our kids will be exposed to it at school, but we'll educate them on it

and why we won't have it at home. and they're quite heavy on the use of

beeswax, in their crayons and other coloring materials, and as a modeling

medium. they use it because they consider it a good alternative to

petroleum-based products, and i'm inclined to agree. it sucks because it's

actually really cool stuff. i've played with it at the school myself and i

can definitely see the value of it. we haven't bought any on our own, thank

goodness, but i'm feeling vegan guilt hard-core. it's very

frustrating. i'd like to stick to only " natural " products also, but not if

that means animal products (and let's face it -- it usually does). on my

other groups people promote wool diaper " soakers " heavily, and my

understanding is they really ARE the best. my first choice isn't using

petroleum-based PUL diaper covers! but i like sheep more than i like wool,

you know? sigh. it seems like since we've gone vegan it's been one long

stream of compromises that we don't always feel great about, especially when

it seems like we're damaging the environment with some of our

animal-product-avoidance choices. i'm NOT going omni or anything or bashing

the vegan way of life by any means...it's just frustrating sometimes

weighing every little thing. anyone else have this feeling?

 

chandelle' in UT

 

[Guest guest]

Kadee, You are so funny! ; )

 

Rebecca, We use pure maple syrup in place of honey. Our neighbors have tons of

maple trees and they make syrup. For some recipes it's too thin, so you can just

boil it down to the right consistency. We don't substitute for white sugar, I

just make sure to use Michigan Sugar which is made from sugar beets (not sugar

cane) and not processed through bone char, so it is vegan.

 

Bonnie

 

 

[Guest guest]

chandelle'-

I'm feeling you! I consider us " waldorf-inspired " homeschoolers. I

don't/won't use the clay. But we have a set of beeswax block crayons ONLY

because they came with Oak Meadow preschool. I have heard that many waldorf

schools are very into milk, and promote it as a " wholesome " and " nurturing "

drink. I don't know if that is true! I have been living my vegan life for so

long, I didn't realize the internet was bombarded with all the WAP stuff! I

know what you mean about sounding like a zealot! lol! But they seem, to me,

to be fanatical,militant zombies when it comes to promoting milk,meat and

the wap webiste! It is irritating and a turn off to me. I have no desire to

hear this everyday!

People in my life have always been supportive of our choices, and most

people in our life eat meat and dairy, and they NEVER say " oh you need meat

and milk! " .

Anyway, you are not alone!

Thanks for answering me about sweetners. We never really used honet anyway.

And we don't use wool, which is what the waldorf schools use to knit, as you

know.

waldorfhomeschoolers.com is run by a raw vegan, but that is unusual for a

waldorfer.

Rebecca

 

 

>earthmother <earthmother213

>

>

> WAP/sweeteners/beeswax woes

>Fri, 15 Sep 2006 08:59:51 -0600

>

>this is a breath of fresh air! i'm on a couple different AP/natural

>parenting groups and i always feel like i'm drowning in a sea of NT/WAP

>fanatics. it sucks because their arguments sound so sensible, even though

>they're NOT...and if i try to counter them, i end up sounding like the

>zealot. sigh.

>

>in place of honey...we sort of only used honey for herbal teas and

>occasionally bread, since we make our own. in tea i use molasses and/or

>agave nectar. in bread we use brown rice syrup. we use BRS a lot,

>actually. if we need a dry sugar we use organic unrefined fair trade cane

>sugar. or sucanat, if we need a richer taste. i've never used barley

>malt syrup but i understand some people use that as a " wet " sugar also. i

>also know a lot of people use stevia, but i'm not brave enough yet.

>supposedly it's hard to get the measurements right and if you screw it up

>it's REALLY screwed up. we use sugar very sparingly so to us, usually when

>we use it it's because we need the actual flavor of sugar, not just a

>sweetener, if that makes sense.

>

>i'm really bummed about this, but my husband is a waldorf teacher, and

>recently we've gotten into using beeswax. waldorf education is heavy

>on

>natural materials, like they only use wooden toys and organic cotton.

>they're also heavy on wool, which i won't use no matter what, although i

>know our kids will be exposed to it at school, but we'll educate them on it

>and why we won't have it at home. and they're quite heavy on the use of

>beeswax, in their crayons and other coloring materials, and as a modeling

>medium. they use it because they consider it a good alternative to

>petroleum-based products, and i'm inclined to agree. it sucks because it's

>actually really cool stuff. i've played with it at the school myself and i

>can definitely see the value of it. we haven't bought any on our own,

>thank

>goodness, but i'm feeling vegan guilt hard-core. it's very

>frustrating. i'd like to stick to only " natural " products also, but not if

>that means animal products (and let's face it -- it usually does). on my

>other groups people promote wool diaper " soakers " heavily, and my

>understanding is they really ARE the best. my first choice isn't using

>petroleum-based PUL diaper covers! but i like sheep more than i like wool,

>you know? sigh. it seems like since we've gone vegan it's been one long

>stream of compromises that we don't always feel great about, especially

>when

>it seems like we're damaging the environment with some of our

>animal-product-avoidance choices. i'm NOT going omni or anything or

>bashing

>the vegan way of life by any means...it's just frustrating sometimes

>weighing every little thing. anyone else have this feeling?

>

>chandelle' in UT

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

not processed through bone char, so it is vegan.

 

What's this?

 

 

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

 

 

..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Get on board. You're invited to try the new Mail.

 

 

[Guest guest]

yeah, at my husband's school he says a great many of his students' parents

are into WAP/NT. but the director/main teacher of the school is primarily

vegetarian (she gets eggs from a neighbor with a chicken coop, but that's

basically it), and while they do use beeswax and wool plentifully in the

school, the snacks so far have never had animal products and she felt very

comfortable hiring him knowing that he didn't feel comfortable using those

products and whatnot. so that's very lucky for us. a few of the parents

are veggie. one parent that we know is basically vegan because they have so

many food allergies in their family, and we exhange recipes often. it's

nice that it's a very small school and very diverse so no one ideology tilts

the school one way or another.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chandelle wrote:

 

<<it seems like since we've gone vegan it's been one

long stream of compromises that we don't always feel

great about, especially when it seems like we're

damaging the environment with some of our

animal-product- avoidance choices. i'm NOT going omni

or anything or bashing the vegan way of life by any

means...it's just frustrating sometimes weighing every

little thing. anyone else have this feeling?>>

 

The point is that you're thinking about these issues,

and trying hard to make ethical choices.

 

You live in Utah, for heaven's sakes! Think of how

many people don't have the fortitude to be a vegan

there, to fight against the cultural norms of a very

western, cattle-oriented lifestyle.

 

You could live in the center of Berkeley and still

find it impossible to be a " perfect " vegan. The tires

of your cars have animal byproducts in them. Same

with photo processing (unless you use digital!). The

fact that you're weighing the options and trying to

come up with the path of least harm is the whole

point. Give yourself credit!

 

Liz

[Guest guest]

white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone char in a bleaching

process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses

that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that

refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of

energy?

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You are lucky to find a diverse private school. In Chicago, the private schools

are a sea of white. We had our daughter in one for two years; fortunately she

was able to get into a magnet school. The first day of kindergarten, after

being in a very diverse preschool, my little darling asked why everyone in the

school had light skin. Walking into the school she had been attending since

second grade is like walking into the UN; the diversity is so beautiful. Her

classmates (or their parents) are from China, Russia, Cameroon, Mexico, Nigeria,

Pakistan, India, Korea, etc.

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: yeah, at my husband's school he

says a great many of his students' parents

are into WAP/NT. but the director/main teacher of the school is primarily

vegetarian (she gets eggs from a neighbor with a chicken coop, but that's

basically it), and while they do use beeswax and wool plentifully in the

school, the snacks so far have never had animal products and she felt very

comfortable hiring him knowing that he didn't feel comfortable using those

products and whatnot. so that's very lucky for us. a few of the parents

are veggie. one parent that we know is basically vegan because they have so

many food allergies in their family, and we exhange recipes often. it's

nice that it's a very small school and very diverse so no one ideology tilts

the school one way or another.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

we actually WILL only use digital. and we don't have a car. but

there's a whole mess of other things that just seem unavoidable. i know

it's not about being perfect. i try hard to make omnis realize that because

they always come at us thinking that we're trying to attain some level of

vegan purity. i always tell them, it's not about being pure, because that's

impossible. you'd drive yourself crazy trying to eliminate everything! you

couldn't live in a house or ride a bike or eat almost anything. it's just

about doing the best you can. yes, it is a HUGE challenge in utah. most of

our lifestyle choices are a huge challenge here, actually. >

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

oh...well, by diversity i was mainly referring to lifestyle choices. but

this IS still utah i'm talking about here; it's pretty much a novelty to see

anyone who is not white (a big reason why we want to move!).

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on earth haven't all we veg

people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is in charge of labeling

things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on things? That would save us all SO

much time reading labels in the grocery store.

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote:

white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone char in a bleaching

process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses

that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that

refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of

energy?

 

[Guest guest]

Come to Chicago! Very veg friendly and no one will think you are weird if you

don't have a car (I haven't driven in years).

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: oh...well, by diversity i was

mainly referring to lifestyle choices. but

this IS still utah i'm talking about here; it's pretty much a novelty to see

anyone who is not white (a big reason why we want to move!).

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

our goal has always been to move to oregon and run a little farm/sanctuary.

i'm a student midwife and oregon is the place to be for homebirth also.

but i have heard wonderful thing about chicago. it seems they've made some

really positive " green " changes in recent years.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

This is something I feel would be very beneficial. I have wondered myself what

it would take to get such a lable put on foods. I am fairly new to being vegan,

switching mostly with the birth of my daughter and did not know alot about

stuff. I am learning as I go. I would definitely support some kind of mandated

labeling. They usually will have notes for people allergic to nuts, dairy or

soy--so how difficult would it be.

 

Kadee M <abbey_road3012 wrote: That's so awful, I never even

knew that. Ugh. Why on earth haven't all we veg people gotten together and made

the FDA or whoever is in charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or

vegan label on things? That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the

grocery store.

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is

refined through bone char in a bleaching

process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses

that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that

refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of

energy?

 

 

[Guest guest]

Tricky labels list the phrase " natural flavoring " instead of what's really in

it, and me being the suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I suspect it's to trick

us vegetarians into buying something we shouldn't. Example- Many varieties of

Hamburger Helper appear to be vegetarian, but they're not. I read somewhere that

Prego does not make a single vegetarian spaghetti sauce! That's the brand I've

always used. The label made me feel safe.

Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like something it

isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they meet certain

requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because without a

labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're talking about.

I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the FDA, or

whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what they say. I'd

love to get something started. A little green " V " or something next to the

ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add onto packaging, and

it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If anyone else would want

to try to figure out how to go about this too, look it up also. This would be a

really great thing for all of us.

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

Laura Ballinger <lballinger wrote:

This is something I feel would be very beneficial. I have wondered myself what

it would take to get such a lable put on foods. I am fairly new to being vegan,

switching mostly with the birth of my daughter and did not know alot about

stuff. I am learning as I go. I would definitely support some kind of mandated

labeling. They usually will have notes for people allergic to nuts, dairy or

soy--so how difficult would it be.

 

Kadee M <abbey_road3012 wrote: That's so awful, I never

even knew that. Ugh. Why on earth haven't all we veg people gotten together and

made the FDA or whoever is in charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or

vegan label on things? That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the

grocery store.

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is

refined through bone char in a bleaching

process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses

that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that

refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of

energy?

 

[Guest guest]

We have used the Muir Glen pasta sauces for a long time. We recently tried the

Ragu organic; it's a bit sweeter than we like, but not bad. I have purchased

both brands at Costco.

 

Kadee M <abbey_road3012 wrote: Tricky labels list the phrase

" natural flavoring " instead of what's really in it, and me being the

suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I suspect it's to trick us vegetarians into

buying something we shouldn't. Example- Many varieties of Hamburger Helper

appear to be vegetarian, but they're not. I read somewhere that Prego does not

make a single vegetarian spaghetti sauce! That's the brand I've always used. The

label made me feel safe.

Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like something it

isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they meet certain

requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because without a

labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're talking about.

I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the FDA, or

whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what they say. I'd

love to get something started. A little green " V " or something next to the

ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add onto packaging, and

it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If anyone else would want

to try to figure out how to go about this too, look it up also. This would be a

really great thing for all of us.

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

Laura Ballinger wrote: This is something I feel would be very beneficial. I have

wondered myself what it would take to get such a lable put on foods. I am fairly

new to being vegan, switching mostly with the birth of my daughter and did not

know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I would definitely support some

kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have notes for people allergic to

nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be.

 

Kadee M wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on earth

haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is in

charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on things? That

would save us all SO much time reading labels in the grocery store.

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

earthmother wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone char in

a bleaching

process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses

that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that

refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of

energy?

 

 

[Guest guest]

I know that some companys do use a vegan symbol, voluntarily. see below What

is the Certified Vegan Logo?

The Logo is a registered trademark, similar in nature to the " kosher " mark, for

products that do not contain animal products and that have not been tested on

animals. The Logo is easily visible to consumers interested in vegan products

and helps vegans to shop without constantly consulting ingredient lists; it

helps companies recognize a growing vegan market; and it helps bring the word

" vegan " —and the lifestyle it represents—into the mainstream. (Please keep in

mind, however, that the logo is not yet on every vegan product.)

 

The Logo is administered by The Vegan Awareness Foundation (official name of

Vegan Action), a 501©3 nonprofit organization dedicated to educating the

public about veganism and to assist vegan-friendly businesses. A Universal

Vegetarian Symbol The European V-Label Already 20 years ago there was an

intention to launch one symbol for vegetarianism world-wide. In fact William

Pick, founder and President of the Jewish Vegetarian Society, tried to spread a

universal vegetarian symbol in 1976.

The 'V'-label was created by the Italian artist Prof. Bruno Nascimben,

(Castenaso) and was presented for world-wide use at the EVU Congress 1985 in

Cervia Italy. Many vegetarian and vegan societies have adopted the 'V'-label in

the meantime and it has become the most widely used vegetarian symbol

world-wide.

Since then a lot of work has been done for the elaboration of rules,

conditions and many more things for the use of the symbol. A portal for all

information about the label can be found here: www.v-label.info

 

and check out these labels.

 

http://www.rawdc.org/food/veglogo.html

 

Kadee M <abbey_road3012 wrote:

Tricky labels list the phrase " natural flavoring " instead of what's

really in it, and me being the suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I suspect it's

to trick us vegetarians into buying something we shouldn't. Example- Many

varieties of Hamburger Helper appear to be vegetarian, but they're not. I read

somewhere that Prego does not make a single vegetarian spaghetti sauce! That's

the brand I've always used. The label made me feel safe.

Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like something it

isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they meet certain

requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because without a

labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're talking about.

I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the FDA, or

whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what they say. I'd

love to get something started. A little green " V " or something next to the

ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add onto packaging, and

it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If anyone else would want

to try to figure out how to go about this too, look it up also. This would be a

really great thing for all of us.

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

Laura Ballinger <lballinger wrote: This is something I feel

would be very beneficial. I have wondered myself what it would take to get such

a lable put on foods. I am fairly new to being vegan, switching mostly with the

birth of my daughter and did not know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I

would definitely support some kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have

notes for people allergic to nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be.

 

Kadee M <abbey_road3012 wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew

that. Ugh. Why on earth haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the

FDA or whoever is in charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan

label on things? That would save us all SO much time reading labels in the

grocery store.

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is

refined through bone char in a bleaching

process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses

that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that

refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of

energy?

 

 

[Guest guest]

I've seen the Ragu kind you're talking about, but I've never heard of Muir Glen.

Do you think they'd have it at Whole Foods? Thanks for the tip. I really don't

want to go to all that trouble to make it from scratch!

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: We have

used the Muir Glen pasta sauces for a long time. We recently tried the Ragu

organic; it's a bit sweeter than we like, but not bad. I have purchased both

brands at Costco.

 

Kadee M <abbey_road3012 wrote: Tricky labels list the phrase

" natural flavoring " instead of what's really in it, and me being the

suspicious-of-big-businesses type, I suspect it's to trick us vegetarians into

buying something we shouldn't. Example- Many varieties of Hamburger Helper

appear to be vegetarian, but they're not. I read somewhere that Prego does not

make a single vegetarian spaghetti sauce! That's the brand I've always used. The

label made me feel safe.

Companies find every way they can to make their product seem like something it

isn't. They lie and mislead, and the FDA allows it so long as they meet certain

requirements, which of course to us don't mean anything because without a

labeling degree most of us don't know what in the heck they're talking about.

I'm going to look this up. If I can get in contact with someone from the FDA,

or whoever I'd need to get in touch with about this, I'll post what they say.

I'd love to get something started. A little green " V " or something next to the

ingredients list wouldn't cost companies anything to add onto packaging, and

it'd save us all some time. I'll see what I can find. If anyone else would want

to try to figure out how to go about this too, look it up also. This would be a

really great thing for all of us.

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

Laura Ballinger wrote: This is something I feel would be very beneficial. I

have wondered myself what it would take to get such a lable put on foods. I am

fairly new to being vegan, switching mostly with the birth of my daughter and

did not know alot about stuff. I am learning as I go. I would definitely support

some kind of mandated labeling. They usually will have notes for people allergic

to nuts, dairy or soy--so how difficult would it be.

 

Kadee M wrote: That's so awful, I never even knew that. Ugh. Why on earth

haven't all we veg people gotten together and made the FDA or whoever is in

charge of labeling things, require a vegetarian or vegan label on things? That

would save us all SO much time reading labels in the grocery store.

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

earthmother wrote: white, refined " table " sugar is refined through bone char in

a bleaching

process. they also remove all the trace elements and the natural molasses

that is normally present. ironically in brown sugar they do all that

refining and then add the molasses back; doesn't that seem like a waste of

energy?