family struggles

[Guest guest]

i am posting this here because i know the people on this list are the only

ones who would understand. this is SO frustrating.

 

we are vegan. we have an almost-2 y/o boy, isaiah, and a 9 w/o girl,

willow. my husband's family knows we are vegan. we've made it very clear

what we do and do not eat. in general, excluding confusing additives,

there's no way that they can give isaiah something with an animal product in

it and not know about it.

 

we've raised isaiah vegan from birth, so we've always worried that things

would be really hard with our families. now that isaiah is pretty

autonomous, and can ask for things and express himself, but is not yet old

enough to understand or express what we do and do not eat, things have

become extremely difficult.

 

last night we had dinner at my in-laws. we've converted my BIL and his wife

to veg, so now 2 of the 5 married couples in the fam are veg, so my MIL very

kindly tries to make something we can eat - last night she made sweet and

sour chicken and made half of it without chicken for us. we're so grateful

for her kindness and consideration of us that, when we eat over there, as

long as the food is animal-free, we eat it, even if it's white rice or

lettuce so covered in pesticide it's bitter. but we always stand firm on

the vegan thing.

 

after dinner, my MIL served not one, but two cakes. (this family has some

major obesity problems and it's no surprise.) one chocolate cake with

chocolate icing and one carrot cake with cream cheese frosting. we knew

that an issue would come up with isaiah asking for food because he doesn't

know any better, so we took him into another room to play. my MIL followed

us in with a plate of carrot cake. isaiah was pretty uninterested until she

started making all kinds of noises about how good the cake was. he came

over and sat on her lap and she gave him a bite. my husband said, " mom, we

don't eat eggs and milk. " she hemmed and hawed but said ok. a few minutes

later, she tried to give him another bite. (he hadn't even asked for it.)

my husband put his hand in front isaiah's mouth and said, again, " mom, we

don't eat that stuff, please stop trying to feed it to him. " she said,

" it's only a little bit, it's not like i'm giving him a fried egg or a glass

of milk! " he said, " i'm sorry, we don't eat that stuff. beyond the white

flour, white sugar, and refined oils, it has animal products in it, and you

know we don't eat that no matter what. " she said ok. a few minutes later,

she tried to give him a bite AGAIN! so my husband picked isaiah up and left

the room. she got really mad and said that we were being really stupid and

couldn't we see how sad he was and how much we were depriving him. (he

wasn't sad; he didn't even notice. and he hadn't even been asking for it or

showing any interest beyond the first bite - probably he didn't even like it

and that's why he didn't ask for more.)

 

my MIL went in the other room and started complaining to my FIL that she had

just given isaiah a " tiny bite " of cake and we had freaked out and that she

was sick of not being able to enjoy food with her grandson. (food is a very

big deal in this family. we ALWAYS bring things isaiah can eat, including

sweet - but healthy - stuff like cookies, so it's not like there's nothing

they can feed him.)

 

my husband and i feel like this really indicates that we absolutely cannot

trust them - if they'll so deliberately go against our explicit wishes and

do it right in front of us, what are they going to feed him when we're not

around to say no? how confusing is it going to be for our kids if we say

that we don't eat these things because it hurts our bodies and the animals,

and then they go over there and get to eat it?

 

i am so frustrated! it's even worse when they try to feed him something

because he's showing interest or asking for it and i have to come along like

the bad guy and say no and then they freak out because we're being so " mean "

to him. what happened to parents who would have said with their own kids,

" they shouldn't get everything they ask for " or " just because he wants it

doesn't mean he should have it or that it's good for him or healthy " or

" we're the parents; we decide what our kids do and don't do " ? why is there

such a complete turnaround when the parents become grandparents? i just

don't get it.

 

chandelle'

 

--

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.

-Gloria Steinem

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Have you sat down and spoken to them about the specific reasons you have chosen

to raise your children vegan? Be prepared for questions and let them know that

food is not something you base your family around. It shouldn't be a way to

bond. Just be sure to have lots of evidence as to exactly why you've chosen to

be vegan. I know it will be hard (my father can't understand, no matter how much

information I've given him.. and sometimes it's just that way.) It's not the

best decision, but if they just can't seem to accept it, maybe family meals with

the in-laws isn't a good idea? Or perhaps you could invite them over for a vegan

meal?

 

 

 

 

Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse

 

Life is an adventure in forgiveness.

Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990)

 

 

 

 

 

earthmother <earthmother213

 

Monday, January 29, 2007 9:57:05 AM

family struggles

 

i am posting this here because i know the people on this list are the only

ones who would understand. this is SO frustrating.

 

we are vegan. we have an almost-2 y/o boy, isaiah, and a 9 w/o girl,

willow. my husband's family knows we are vegan. we've made it very clear

what we do and do not eat. in general, excluding confusing additives,

there's no way that they can give isaiah something with an animal product in

it and not know about it.

 

we've raised isaiah vegan from birth, so we've always worried that things

would be really hard with our families. now that isaiah is pretty

autonomous, and can ask for things and express himself, but is not yet old

enough to understand or express what we do and do not eat, things have

become extremely difficult.

 

last night we had dinner at my in-laws. we've converted my BIL and his wife

to veg, so now 2 of the 5 married couples in the fam are veg, so my MIL very

kindly tries to make something we can eat - last night she made sweet and

sour chicken and made half of it without chicken for us. we're so grateful

for her kindness and consideration of us that, when we eat over there, as

long as the food is animal-free, we eat it, even if it's white rice or

lettuce so covered in pesticide it's bitter. but we always stand firm on

the vegan thing.

 

after dinner, my MIL served not one, but two cakes. (this family has some

major obesity problems and it's no surprise.) one chocolate cake with

chocolate icing and one carrot cake with cream cheese frosting. we knew

that an issue would come up with isaiah asking for food because he doesn't

know any better, so we took him into another room to play. my MIL followed

us in with a plate of carrot cake. isaiah was pretty uninterested until she

started making all kinds of noises about how good the cake was. he came

over and sat on her lap and she gave him a bite. my husband said, " mom, we

don't eat eggs and milk. " she hemmed and hawed but said ok. a few minutes

later, she tried to give him another bite. (he hadn't even asked for it.)

my husband put his hand in front isaiah's mouth and said, again, " mom, we

don't eat that stuff, please stop trying to feed it to him. " she said,

" it's only a little bit, it's not like i'm giving him a fried egg or a glass

of milk! " he said, " i'm sorry, we don't eat that stuff. beyond the white

flour, white sugar, and refined oils, it has animal products in it, and you

know we don't eat that no matter what. " she said ok. a few minutes later,

she tried to give him a bite AGAIN! so my husband picked isaiah up and left

the room. she got really mad and said that we were being really stupid and

couldn't we see how sad he was and how much we were depriving him. (he

wasn't sad; he didn't even notice. and he hadn't even been asking for it or

showing any interest beyond the first bite - probably he didn't even like it

and that's why he didn't ask for more.)

 

my MIL went in the other room and started complaining to my FIL that she had

just given isaiah a " tiny bite " of cake and we had freaked out and that she

was sick of not being able to enjoy food with her grandson. (food is a very

big deal in this family. we ALWAYS bring things isaiah can eat, including

sweet - but healthy - stuff like cookies, so it's not like there's nothing

they can feed him.)

 

my husband and i feel like this really indicates that we absolutely cannot

trust them - if they'll so deliberately go against our explicit wishes and

do it right in front of us, what are they going to feed him when we're not

around to say no? how confusing is it going to be for our kids if we say

that we don't eat these things because it hurts our bodies and the animals,

and then they go over there and get to eat it?

 

i am so frustrated! it's even worse when they try to feed him something

because he's showing interest or asking for it and i have to come along like

the bad guy and say no and then they freak out because we're being so " mean "

to him. what happened to parents who would have said with their own kids,

" they shouldn't get everything they ask for " or " just because he wants it

doesn't mean he should have it or that it's good for him or healthy " or

" we're the parents; we decide what our kids do and don't do " ? why is there

such a complete turnaround when the parents become grandparents? i just

don't get it.

 

chandelle'

 

--

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.

-Gloria Steinem

 

 

[Guest guest]

Chandelle asked:

 

<<what happened to parents who would have said with

their own kids, " they shouldn't get everything they

ask for " or " just because he wants it doesn't mean he

should have it or that it's good for him or healthy "

or " we're the parents; we decide what our kids do and

don't do " ? why is there such a complete turnaround

when the parents become grandparents?>>

 

I think it's because there are two issues at stake,

not just one. There is the societal expectation that

grandparents get to " spoil " their grandchildren, which

of course they were never allowed to do to their own

children growing up. And then, on top of that, there

is a strong (irrational) feeling that vegetarianism is

unhealthy, so feeding a growing child becomes a huge

power struggle. It's kind of like smoking....they

might not like if their adult child smokes, but they

won't force you to quit, whereas if they see your

child showing an interest in smoking, they'll leap to

the " rescue " .

 

And yes, I used that analogy for a reason. For many

people -- certainly my entire family -- vegetarianism

is literally thought of as being at least as dangerous

to one's health as smoking. Sad but true.

 

Liz

[Guest guest]

Somehow this woman needs to get the message that FOOD IS NOT LOVE!!! Your

husband is very lucky to have you and have a healthy attitude.

 

 

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote:

i am posting this here because i know the people on this list are the

only

ones who would understand. this is SO frustrating.

 

we are vegan. we have an almost-2 y/o boy, isaiah, and a 9 w/o girl,

willow. my husband's family knows we are vegan. we've made it very clear

what we do and do not eat. in general, excluding confusing additives,

there's no way that they can give isaiah something with an animal product in

it and not know about it.

 

we've raised isaiah vegan from birth, so we've always worried that things

would be really hard with our families. now that isaiah is pretty

autonomous, and can ask for things and express himself, but is not yet old

enough to understand or express what we do and do not eat, things have

become extremely difficult.

 

last night we had dinner at my in-laws. we've converted my BIL and his wife

to veg, so now 2 of the 5 married couples in the fam are veg, so my MIL very

kindly tries to make something we can eat - last night she made sweet and

sour chicken and made half of it without chicken for us. we're so grateful

for her kindness and consideration of us that, when we eat over there, as

long as the food is animal-free, we eat it, even if it's white rice or

lettuce so covered in pesticide it's bitter. but we always stand firm on

the vegan thing.

 

after dinner, my MIL served not one, but two cakes. (this family has some

major obesity problems and it's no surprise.) one chocolate cake with

chocolate icing and one carrot cake with cream cheese frosting. we knew

that an issue would come up with isaiah asking for food because he doesn't

know any better, so we took him into another room to play. my MIL followed

us in with a plate of carrot cake. isaiah was pretty uninterested until she

started making all kinds of noises about how good the cake was. he came

over and sat on her lap and she gave him a bite. my husband said, " mom, we

don't eat eggs and milk. " she hemmed and hawed but said ok. a few minutes

later, she tried to give him another bite. (he hadn't even asked for it.)

my husband put his hand in front isaiah's mouth and said, again, " mom, we

don't eat that stuff, please stop trying to feed it to him. " she said,

" it's only a little bit, it's not like i'm giving him a fried egg or a glass

of milk! " he said, " i'm sorry, we don't eat that stuff. beyond the white

flour, white sugar, and refined oils, it has animal products in it, and you

know we don't eat that no matter what. " she said ok. a few minutes later,

she tried to give him a bite AGAIN! so my husband picked isaiah up and left

the room. she got really mad and said that we were being really stupid and

couldn't we see how sad he was and how much we were depriving him. (he

wasn't sad; he didn't even notice. and he hadn't even been asking for it or

showing any interest beyond the first bite - probably he didn't even like it

and that's why he didn't ask for more.)

 

my MIL went in the other room and started complaining to my FIL that she had

just given isaiah a " tiny bite " of cake and we had freaked out and that she

was sick of not being able to enjoy food with her grandson. (food is a very

big deal in this family. we ALWAYS bring things isaiah can eat, including

sweet - but healthy - stuff like cookies, so it's not like there's nothing

they can feed him.)

 

my husband and i feel like this really indicates that we absolutely cannot

trust them - if they'll so deliberately go against our explicit wishes and

do it right in front of us, what are they going to feed him when we're not

around to say no? how confusing is it going to be for our kids if we say

that we don't eat these things because it hurts our bodies and the animals,

and then they go over there and get to eat it?

 

i am so frustrated! it's even worse when they try to feed him something

because he's showing interest or asking for it and i have to come along like

the bad guy and say no and then they freak out because we're being so " mean "

to him. what happened to parents who would have said with their own kids,

" they shouldn't get everything they ask for " or " just because he wants it

doesn't mean he should have it or that it's good for him or healthy " or

" we're the parents; we decide what our kids do and don't do " ? why is there

such a complete turnaround when the parents become grandparents? i just

don't get it.

 

chandelle'

 

--

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.

-Gloria Steinem

 

 

[Guest guest]

Just know that you're not alone in this. We no longer allow my parents to be

alone with the kids unless they're in our house (no meat in the house, not even

in the dog food). It's sad that your mother in-law is being so disrespectful,

but she knows the rules, she broke them, and you are the parents. Be glad you

and your husband are in agreement, and maybe next time you could have the meal

at your house and just plain not allow anything in the house that you and your

son can't eat. Then Grandma can feed him anything she can find and it's fine.

I'm sorry this happened in the first place though. Especially since she knows

better.

 

 

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: i

am posting this here because i know the people on this list are the only

ones who would understand. this is SO frustrating.

 

we are vegan. we have an almost-2 y/o boy, isaiah, and a 9 w/o girl,

willow. my husband's family knows we are vegan. we've made it very clear

what we do and do not eat. in general, excluding confusing additives,

there's no way that they can give isaiah something with an animal product in

it and not know about it.

 

we've raised isaiah vegan from birth, so we've always worried that things

would be really hard with our families. now that isaiah is pretty

autonomous, and can ask for things and express himself, but is not yet old

enough to understand or express what we do and do not eat, things have

become extremely difficult.

 

last night we had dinner at my in-laws. we've converted my BIL and his wife

to veg, so now 2 of the 5 married couples in the fam are veg, so my MIL very

kindly tries to make something we can eat - last night she made sweet and

sour chicken and made half of it without chicken for us. we're so grateful

for her kindness and consideration of us that, when we eat over there, as

long as the food is animal-free, we eat it, even if it's white rice or

lettuce so covered in pesticide it's bitter. but we always stand firm on

the vegan thing.

 

after dinner, my MIL served not one, but two cakes. (this family has some

major obesity problems and it's no surprise.) one chocolate cake with

chocolate icing and one carrot cake with cream cheese frosting. we knew

that an issue would come up with isaiah asking for food because he doesn't

know any better, so we took him into another room to play. my MIL followed

us in with a plate of carrot cake. isaiah was pretty uninterested until she

started making all kinds of noises about how good the cake was. he came

over and sat on her lap and she gave him a bite. my husband said, " mom, we

don't eat eggs and milk. " she hemmed and hawed but said ok. a few minutes

later, she tried to give him another bite. (he hadn't even asked for it.)

my husband put his hand in front isaiah's mouth and said, again, " mom, we

don't eat that stuff, please stop trying to feed it to him. " she said,

" it's only a little bit, it's not like i'm giving him a fried egg or a glass

of milk! " he said, " i'm sorry, we don't eat that stuff. beyond the white

flour, white sugar, and refined oils, it has animal products in it, and you

know we don't eat that no matter what. " she said ok. a few minutes later,

she tried to give him a bite AGAIN! so my husband picked isaiah up and left

the room. she got really mad and said that we were being really stupid and

couldn't we see how sad he was and how much we were depriving him. (he

wasn't sad; he didn't even notice. and he hadn't even been asking for it or

showing any interest beyond the first bite - probably he didn't even like it

and that's why he didn't ask for more.)

 

my MIL went in the other room and started complaining to my FIL that she had

just given isaiah a " tiny bite " of cake and we had freaked out and that she

was sick of not being able to enjoy food with her grandson. (food is a very

big deal in this family. we ALWAYS bring things isaiah can eat, including

sweet - but healthy - stuff like cookies, so it's not like there's nothing

they can feed him.)

 

my husband and i feel like this really indicates that we absolutely cannot

trust them - if they'll so deliberately go against our explicit wishes and

do it right in front of us, what are they going to feed him when we're not

around to say no? how confusing is it going to be for our kids if we say

that we don't eat these things because it hurts our bodies and the animals,

and then they go over there and get to eat it?

 

i am so frustrated! it's even worse when they try to feed him something

because he's showing interest or asking for it and i have to come along like

the bad guy and say no and then they freak out because we're being so " mean "

to him. what happened to parents who would have said with their own kids,

" they shouldn't get everything they ask for " or " just because he wants it

doesn't mean he should have it or that it's good for him or healthy " or

" we're the parents; we decide what our kids do and don't do " ? why is there

such a complete turnaround when the parents become grandparents? i just

don't get it.

 

chandelle'

 

--

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.

-Gloria Steinem

 

[Guest guest]

yes, i have explained extensively. as a student midwife, i'm a serious

student of nutrition and i've shared everything i know with our families.

my in-laws consider it irrelevent. they refuse to believe that farming has

changed at all from " their day. " my MIL's grandfather was a dairy farmer and

he had the typical pastoral scene of a few dairy cows hanging out in the

pasture with the chickens. they think farming is still like that and

anything that says or shows that it is not is " propaganda. " for most big

family meals, like at holidays, we actually provide most of the food, other

than the obligatory centerpiece carcass. everyone loves our food and sees

that we eat well. nobody *really* believes that we are deprived. and as

for health, my in-laws could care less if something is healthy or not. so i

really don't know what it is, other than that my MIL equates food with

love. as an example, my FIL is severely obese and has always been

overweight. in the last few years he has actually lost quite a bit of

weight by exercise alone. by exercise alone because my MIL refuses to let

him eat normally. she always gives him the biggest portions at a meal and

insists that he have multiple servings. if he says no, she gets mad and

assumes that he doesn't like her food. so there's really no hope for him,

or anyone else who lives in that house (my husband and his five siblings

have all struggled with weight issues until they move out). so i guess that

really is all it is for my MIL; she feels like she has to express her love

by giving our kids what she views as " treats " - when to us, a " treat " is

some fruit leather or a smoothie and our son is quite satisfied with that

because that's all he's ever known, which is GREAT! my guess is that she

feels it is her duty as a grandparent to " spoil " our kids, and since we have

our own ideas on pretty much everything (toys, food, tv, etc.), she slips

stuff in where she can, food being a big one since she refuses to be

educated and really doesn't have any respect for us at all because she

thinks she knows better. as for my FIL, i think he just doesn't think it's

a big deal if our kids have a " little bit " of something. he's also

resistant to education, couldn't care less, but in a much more passive way

than my MIL.

 

i have wanted to sit down with them again, now that isaiah is getting older

and they are undermining our authority like this, and try to lay down the

law a little more firmly, but i know that the #1 question they will have is,

why does it matter if they have a little something that happens to have egg

or milk in it? since they wouldn't know any differently anyway and

health-wise, a tiny amount like that isn't really going to affect them? and

i don't know that i have a really good answer for that other than " no means

no. " ???

 

On 1/29/07, Jess <veg4animals2006 wrote:

>

> Have you sat down and spoken to them about the specific reasons you have

> chosen to raise your children vegan? Be prepared for questions and let them

> know that food is not something you base your family around. It shouldn't be

> a way to bond. Just be sure to have lots of evidence as to exactly why

> you've chosen to be vegan. I know it will be hard (my father can't

> understand, no matter how much information I've given him.. and sometimes

> it's just that way.) It's not the best decision, but if they just can't seem

> to accept it, maybe family meals with the in-laws isn't a good idea? Or

> perhaps you could invite them over for a vegan meal?

>

>

>

>

> Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse

>

> Life is an adventure in forgiveness.

> Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990)

>

>

>

>

>

> earthmother <earthmother213

>

> Monday, January 29, 2007 9:57:05 AM

> family struggles

>

> i am posting this here because i know the people on this list are the only

> ones who would understand. this is SO frustrating.

>

> we are vegan. we have an almost-2 y/o boy, isaiah, and a 9 w/o girl,

> willow. my husband's family knows we are vegan. we've made it very clear

> what we do and do not eat. in general, excluding confusing additives,

> there's no way that they can give isaiah something with an animal product

> in

> it and not know about it.

>

> we've raised isaiah vegan from birth, so we've always worried that things

> would be really hard with our families. now that isaiah is pretty

> autonomous, and can ask for things and express himself, but is not yet old

> enough to understand or express what we do and do not eat, things have

> become extremely difficult.

>

> last night we had dinner at my in-laws. we've converted my BIL and his

> wife

> to veg, so now 2 of the 5 married couples in the fam are veg, so my MIL

> very

> kindly tries to make something we can eat - last night she made sweet and

> sour chicken and made half of it without chicken for us. we're so grateful

> for her kindness and consideration of us that, when we eat over there, as

> long as the food is animal-free, we eat it, even if it's white rice or

> lettuce so covered in pesticide it's bitter. but we always stand firm on

> the vegan thing.

>

> after dinner, my MIL served not one, but two cakes. (this family has some

> major obesity problems and it's no surprise.) one chocolate cake with

> chocolate icing and one carrot cake with cream cheese frosting. we knew

> that an issue would come up with isaiah asking for food because he doesn't

> know any better, so we took him into another room to play. my MIL followed

> us in with a plate of carrot cake. isaiah was pretty uninterested until

> she

> started making all kinds of noises about how good the cake was. he came

> over and sat on her lap and she gave him a bite. my husband said, " mom, we

> don't eat eggs and milk. " she hemmed and hawed but said ok. a few minutes

> later, she tried to give him another bite. (he hadn't even asked for it.)

> my husband put his hand in front isaiah's mouth and said, again, " mom, we

> don't eat that stuff, please stop trying to feed it to him. " she said,

> " it's only a little bit, it's not like i'm giving him a fried egg or a

> glass

> of milk! " he said, " i'm sorry, we don't eat that stuff. beyond the white

> flour, white sugar, and refined oils, it has animal products in it, and

> you

> know we don't eat that no matter what. " she said ok. a few minutes later,

> she tried to give him a bite AGAIN! so my husband picked isaiah up and

> left

> the room. she got really mad and said that we were being really stupid and

> couldn't we see how sad he was and how much we were depriving him. (he

> wasn't sad; he didn't even notice. and he hadn't even been asking for it

> or

> showing any interest beyond the first bite - probably he didn't even like

> it

> and that's why he didn't ask for more.)

>

> my MIL went in the other room and started complaining to my FIL that she

> had

> just given isaiah a " tiny bite " of cake and we had freaked out and that

> she

> was sick of not being able to enjoy food with her grandson. (food is a

> very

> big deal in this family. we ALWAYS bring things isaiah can eat, including

> sweet - but healthy - stuff like cookies, so it's not like there's nothing

> they can feed him.)

>

> my husband and i feel like this really indicates that we absolutely cannot

> trust them - if they'll so deliberately go against our explicit wishes and

> do it right in front of us, what are they going to feed him when we're not

> around to say no? how confusing is it going to be for our kids if we say

> that we don't eat these things because it hurts our bodies and the

> animals,

> and then they go over there and get to eat it?

>

> i am so frustrated! it's even worse when they try to feed him something

> because he's showing interest or asking for it and i have to come along

> like

> the bad guy and say no and then they freak out because we're being so

> " mean "

> to him. what happened to parents who would have said with their own kids,

> " they shouldn't get everything they ask for " or " just because he wants it

> doesn't mean he should have it or that it's good for him or healthy " or

> " we're the parents; we decide what our kids do and don't do " ? why is there

> such a complete turnaround when the parents become grandparents? i just

> don't get it.

>

> chandelle'

>

> --

> The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.

> -Gloria Steinem

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just the other day my mom was taking about, poor Greg. He does not get to

eat the " good stuff. " Greg is our 2 y/o, raised vegetarian - on our way to

vegan by summer. I am taking the veganism slowly to give everyone else time

to adjust. We are a vegan household already. I responded by explaining

Greg is eating the good stuff and the right stuff! I told her that if she

has any question, just look at the kid. He is nothing but a healthy,

bouncing off the walls baby boy. She quickly quieted herself. I just try

to explain that we make our choices for our reasons. It is our lifestyle

choice. They know by now that I mean business. If they tried to go behind

my back, they would only see Greg supervised. They cancelled Thanksgiving

because it came down to me telling them he was our child, and we know what

is best for him. I think not having us over for the holidays played a toll

on them. It was their choice, but it did not go well for them. Since then,

they have been much better. It will become an issue though when my dad

tries to take my son hunting. I am dreading that day. How do you explain

to your son that grandpa kills animals, the very ones we try so hard to

protect?

 

 

 

 

On

Behalf Of earthmother

Monday, January 29, 2007 10:57 AM

 

family struggles

 

 

 

i am posting this here because i know the people on this list are the only

ones who would understand. this is SO frustrating.

 

we are vegan. we have an almost-2 y/o boy, isaiah, and a 9 w/o girl,

willow. my husband's family knows we are vegan. we've made it very clear

what we do and do not eat. in general, excluding confusing additives,

there's no way that they can give isaiah something with an animal product in

it and not know about it.

 

we've raised isaiah vegan from birth, so we've always worried that things

would be really hard with our families. now that isaiah is pretty

autonomous, and can ask for things and express himself, but is not yet old

enough to understand or express what we do and do not eat, things have

become extremely difficult.

 

last night we had dinner at my in-laws. we've converted my BIL and his wife

to veg, so now 2 of the 5 married couples in the fam are veg, so my MIL very

kindly tries to make something we can eat - last night she made sweet and

sour chicken and made half of it without chicken for us. we're so grateful

for her kindness and consideration of us that, when we eat over there, as

long as the food is animal-free, we eat it, even if it's white rice or

lettuce so covered in pesticide it's bitter. but we always stand firm on

the vegan thing.

 

after dinner, my MIL served not one, but two cakes. (this family has some

major obesity problems and it's no surprise.) one chocolate cake with

chocolate icing and one carrot cake with cream cheese frosting. we knew

that an issue would come up with isaiah asking for food because he doesn't

know any better, so we took him into another room to play. my MIL followed

us in with a plate of carrot cake. isaiah was pretty uninterested until she

started making all kinds of noises about how good the cake was. he came

over and sat on her lap and she gave him a bite. my husband said, " mom, we

don't eat eggs and milk. " she hemmed and hawed but said ok. a few minutes

later, she tried to give him another bite. (he hadn't even asked for it.)

my husband put his hand in front isaiah's mouth and said, again, " mom, we

don't eat that stuff, please stop trying to feed it to him. " she said,

" it's only a little bit, it's not like i'm giving him a fried egg or a glass

of milk! " he said, " i'm sorry, we don't eat that stuff. beyond the white

flour, white sugar, and refined oils, it has animal products in it, and you

know we don't eat that no matter what. " she said ok. a few minutes later,

she tried to give him a bite AGAIN! so my husband picked isaiah up and left

the room. she got really mad and said that we were being really stupid and

couldn't we see how sad he was and how much we were depriving him. (he

wasn't sad; he didn't even notice. and he hadn't even been asking for it or

showing any interest beyond the first bite - probably he didn't even like it

and that's why he didn't ask for more.)

 

my MIL went in the other room and started complaining to my FIL that she had

just given isaiah a " tiny bite " of cake and we had freaked out and that she

was sick of not being able to enjoy food with her grandson. (food is a very

big deal in this family. we ALWAYS bring things isaiah can eat, including

sweet - but healthy - stuff like cookies, so it's not like there's nothing

they can feed him.)

 

my husband and i feel like this really indicates that we absolutely cannot

trust them - if they'll so deliberately go against our explicit wishes and

do it right in front of us, what are they going to feed him when we're not

around to say no? how confusing is it going to be for our kids if we say

that we don't eat these things because it hurts our bodies and the animals,

and then they go over there and get to eat it?

 

i am so frustrated! it's even worse when they try to feed him something

because he's showing interest or asking for it and i have to come along like

the bad guy and say no and then they freak out because we're being so " mean "

to him. what happened to parents who would have said with their own kids,

" they shouldn't get everything they ask for " or " just because he wants it

doesn't mean he should have it or that it's good for him or healthy " or

" we're the parents; we decide what our kids do and don't do " ? why is there

such a complete turnaround when the parents become grandparents? i just

don't get it.

 

chandelle'

 

--

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.

-Gloria Steinem

 

 

[Guest guest]

A lot of people have the misconception that vegetarianism can be unhealthy. And

to tell the truth, it depends on the person. If you don't incorporate the right

ingredients into your vegetarian/vegan diet it can be unhealthy. But you have to

be prepared for that if you're to change your diet in any way, not just

eliminating meat or animal products.

 

 

jessica-1.jpg

src= " http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90/My_Photos_0/Me/jessica-1.jpg?t=1170038\

213 " >

 

Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse

 

Life is an adventure in forgiveness.

Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990)

 

 

 

 

 

ERB <bakwin

 

Monday, January 29, 2007 12:49:39 PM

Re: family struggles

 

Chandelle asked:

 

<<what happened to parents who would have said with

their own kids, " they shouldn't get everything they

ask for " or " just because he wants it doesn't mean he

should have it or that it's good for him or healthy "

or " we're the parents; we decide what our kids do and

don't do " ? why is there such a complete turnaround

when the parents become grandparents? >>

 

I think it's because there are two issues at stake,

not just one. There is the societal expectation that

grandparents get to " spoil " their grandchildren, which

of course they were never allowed to do to their own

children growing up. And then, on top of that, there

is a strong (irrational) feeling that vegetarianism is

unhealthy, so feeding a growing child becomes a huge

power struggle. It's kind of like smoking....they

might not like if their adult child smokes, but they

won't force you to quit, whereas if they see your

child showing an interest in smoking, they'll leap to

the " rescue " .

 

And yes, I used that analogy for a reason. For many

people -- certainly my entire family -- vegetarianism

is literally thought of as being at least as dangerous

to one's health as smoking. Sad but true.

 

Liz

 

 

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

TV dinner still cooling?

Check out " Tonight's Picks " on TV.

http://tv./

 

 

[Guest guest]

your names are on the birth certificates. you get to choose what your children

eat, how they dress, guide their spirituality, etc., until they are old enough

to make these decisions on their own. your parents and in-laws had their

childrenand made their choices, now it is your turn without their interference.

if your children can't be in their home, then so be it.

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: yes, i have explained

extensively. as a student midwife, i'm a serious

student of nutrition and i've shared everything i know with our families.

my in-laws consider it irrelevent. they refuse to believe that farming has

changed at all from " their day. " my MIL's grandfather was a dairy farmer and

he had the typical pastoral scene of a few dairy cows hanging out in the

pasture with the chickens. they think farming is still like that and

anything that says or shows that it is not is " propaganda. " for most big

family meals, like at holidays, we actually provide most of the food, other

than the obligatory centerpiece carcass. everyone loves our food and sees

that we eat well. nobody *really* believes that we are deprived. and as

for health, my in-laws could care less if something is healthy or not. so i

really don't know what it is, other than that my MIL equates food with

love. as an example, my FIL is severely obese and has always been

overweight. in the last few years he has actually lost quite a bit of

weight by exercise alone. by exercise alone because my MIL refuses to let

him eat normally. she always gives him the biggest portions at a meal and

insists that he have multiple servings. if he says no, she gets mad and

assumes that he doesn't like her food. so there's really no hope for him,

or anyone else who lives in that house (my husband and his five siblings

have all struggled with weight issues until they move out). so i guess that

really is all it is for my MIL; she feels like she has to express her love

by giving our kids what she views as " treats " - when to us, a " treat " is

some fruit leather or a smoothie and our son is quite satisfied with that

because that's all he's ever known, which is GREAT! my guess is that she

feels it is her duty as a grandparent to " spoil " our kids, and since we have

our own ideas on pretty much everything (toys, food, tv, etc.), she slips

stuff in where she can, food being a big one since she refuses to be

educated and really doesn't have any respect for us at all because she

thinks she knows better. as for my FIL, i think he just doesn't think it's

a big deal if our kids have a " little bit " of something. he's also

resistant to education, couldn't care less, but in a much more passive way

than my MIL.

 

i have wanted to sit down with them again, now that isaiah is getting older

and they are undermining our authority like this, and try to lay down the

law a little more firmly, but i know that the #1 question they will have is,

why does it matter if they have a little something that happens to have egg

or milk in it? since they wouldn't know any differently anyway and

health-wise, a tiny amount like that isn't really going to affect them? and

i don't know that i have a really good answer for that other than " no means

no. " ???

 

On 1/29/07, Jess <veg4animals2006 wrote:

>

> Have you sat down and spoken to them about the specific reasons you have

> chosen to raise your children vegan? Be prepared for questions and let them

> know that food is not something you base your family around. It shouldn't be

> a way to bond. Just be sure to have lots of evidence as to exactly why

> you've chosen to be vegan. I know it will be hard (my father can't

> understand, no matter how much information I've given him.. and sometimes

> it's just that way.) It's not the best decision, but if they just can't seem

> to accept it, maybe family meals with the in-laws isn't a good idea? Or

> perhaps you could invite them over for a vegan meal?

>

>

>

>

> Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse

>

> Life is an adventure in forgiveness.

> Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990)

>

>

>

>

>

> earthmother <earthmother213

>

> Monday, January 29, 2007 9:57:05 AM

> family struggles

>

> i am posting this here because i know the people on this list are the only

> ones who would understand. this is SO frustrating.

>

> we are vegan. we have an almost-2 y/o boy, isaiah, and a 9 w/o girl,

> willow. my husband's family knows we are vegan. we've made it very clear

> what we do and do not eat. in general, excluding confusing additives,

> there's no way that they can give isaiah something with an animal product

> in

> it and not know about it.

>

> we've raised isaiah vegan from birth, so we've always worried that things

> would be really hard with our families. now that isaiah is pretty

> autonomous, and can ask for things and express himself, but is not yet old

> enough to understand or express what we do and do not eat, things have

> become extremely difficult.

>

> last night we had dinner at my in-laws. we've converted my BIL and his

> wife

> to veg, so now 2 of the 5 married couples in the fam are veg, so my MIL

> very

> kindly tries to make something we can eat - last night she made sweet and

> sour chicken and made half of it without chicken for us. we're so grateful

> for her kindness and consideration of us that, when we eat over there, as

> long as the food is animal-free, we eat it, even if it's white rice or

> lettuce so covered in pesticide it's bitter. but we always stand firm on

> the vegan thing.

>

> after dinner, my MIL served not one, but two cakes. (this family has some

> major obesity problems and it's no surprise.) one chocolate cake with

> chocolate icing and one carrot cake with cream cheese frosting. we knew

> that an issue would come up with isaiah asking for food because he doesn't

> know any better, so we took him into another room to play. my MIL followed

> us in with a plate of carrot cake. isaiah was pretty uninterested until

> she

> started making all kinds of noises about how good the cake was. he came

> over and sat on her lap and she gave him a bite. my husband said, " mom, we

> don't eat eggs and milk. " she hemmed and hawed but said ok. a few minutes

> later, she tried to give him another bite. (he hadn't even asked for it.)

> my husband put his hand in front isaiah's mouth and said, again, " mom, we

> don't eat that stuff, please stop trying to feed it to him. " she said,

> " it's only a little bit, it's not like i'm giving him a fried egg or a

> glass

> of milk! " he said, " i'm sorry, we don't eat that stuff. beyond the white

> flour, white sugar, and refined oils, it has animal products in it, and

> you

> know we don't eat that no matter what. " she said ok. a few minutes later,

> she tried to give him a bite AGAIN! so my husband picked isaiah up and

> left

> the room. she got really mad and said that we were being really stupid and

> couldn't we see how sad he was and how much we were depriving him. (he

> wasn't sad; he didn't even notice. and he hadn't even been asking for it

> or

> showing any interest beyond the first bite - probably he didn't even like

> it

> and that's why he didn't ask for more.)

>

> my MIL went in the other room and started complaining to my FIL that she

> had

> just given isaiah a " tiny bite " of cake and we had freaked out and that

> she

> was sick of not being able to enjoy food with her grandson. (food is a

> very

> big deal in this family. we ALWAYS bring things isaiah can eat, including

> sweet - but healthy - stuff like cookies, so it's not like there's nothing

> they can feed him.)

>

> my husband and i feel like this really indicates that we absolutely cannot

> trust them - if they'll so deliberately go against our explicit wishes and

> do it right in front of us, what are they going to feed him when we're not

> around to say no? how confusing is it going to be for our kids if we say

> that we don't eat these things because it hurts our bodies and the

> animals,

> and then they go over there and get to eat it?

>

> i am so frustrated! it's even worse when they try to feed him something

> because he's showing interest or asking for it and i have to come along

> like

> the bad guy and say no and then they freak out because we're being so

> " mean "

> to him. what happened to parents who would have said with their own kids,

> " they shouldn't get everything they ask for " or " just because he wants it

> doesn't mean he should have it or that it's good for him or healthy " or

> " we're the parents; we decide what our kids do and don't do " ? why is there

> such a complete turnaround when the parents become grandparents? i just

> don't get it.

>

> chandelle'

>

> --

> The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.

> -Gloria Steinem

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Just know that you're not alone in this. We no longer allow my

>parents to be alone with the kids unless >they're in our house (no

>meat in the house, not even in the dog food).

 

While this logic is good, with grandparents it doesn't always work.

My MIL has blatantly said " Well, I don't want to eat your food " not

because of _what_ it is but apparently she's uncomfortable taking my

food to feed to my kid because I may have had other plans for it,

like she'd screw up our grocery budget or I wouldn't know what to

make for dinner because she used something.

 

I even try to compromise, and buy stuff like vegetarian chik*n

nuggets, and what do they do? Get wendy's and feed her those chicken

nuggets. And bring her chocolate milk pints when I have a half-gallon

of chocolate soy milk in the fridge.

 

And don't get me started on the sandwiches (lunch meat-- it's not

ham, it's turkey ham--like that matters)--I bake bread, they bring a

loaf of " whole wheat " Strohmann from the discount bread store. I buy

Terra vegetable chips, they bring potato chips. EVERY MEAL and they

LEAVE THE LEFTOVERS HERE and bring MORE chips the next week. It's not

uncommon for me to have three bags of open potato chips in my pantry.

Then, my FIL brings the jumbo bag of cheese curls-- you know the dark

orange ones. I just throw it all away as soon as I see it and pray

that they " get it " soon.

 

But anyway... I don't need advice, I just need to get them out of my

house. Unfortunately, job arrangements require this and daycare won't

work. I just try to work my schedule so I can circumvent meal

conflicts.

 

Last week, my well meaning MIL bought turkey sausages at Sam's Club--

now that's got to be the epitome of factory-farmed, processed food,

right? And she asks me when I get home at noon, " Do you want these

for dinner? "

I say no, and walk away, repulsed that she had those things on my

stove (this is the woman who burns meat in my pans. I only have three

frying pans and I just threw one away because she made herself meat

and forgot about it)

Anyway. I walk away. She follows me, holding the sausage. " Are you

sure? I bought them at Sam's Club. "

I tell her I don't want them.

" They're turkey "

I'm trying not to lose it. " No, " I say.

" They're stuffed with mozzerella and sundried tomatoes. "

" We won't eat that, " I say.

She drops it.

 

So, don't think it's safe to have anyone who doesn't understand

around your kids. The only way I can keep my IL from giving Eva (my

daughter) dairy is to say it gives her an ear infection.

[Guest guest]

> so i guess that

>really is all it is for my MIL; she feels like she has to express her love

>by giving our kids what she views as " treats " - when to us, a " treat " is

>some fruit leather or a smoothie and our son is quite satisfied with that

>because that's all he's ever known, which is GREAT!

 

 

I was so proud today. I offered my two-and-a-half year old a treat of

her choosing since she'd been very good while I ignored her all

morning due to a project from work and then she went to the potty

with minimal prodding and I thought, " Wow. " So, I'm all ready to whip

out candy or cookies and do you know what she asks for?

 

 

RAISINS

[Guest guest]

>It will become an issue though when my dad

>tries to take my son hunting. I am dreading that day. How do you explain

>to your son that grandpa kills animals, the very ones we try so hard to

>protect?

>

>

 

I may get flamed for this, but, I would have less of a problem with

that than say, McDOnalds. My problem is the big business of food, the

questionable practices of factory farming, the impact of food-borne

illness and the fact that we don't know where our food comes from.

So, in that line of thinking, if you went out, was able to kill it

and clean it, go ahead and eat it, because you made an informed

choice, took responsibility for it and did it without big business

interfering. But I don't think anyone raised on a veg diet would be

able to do that.

[Guest guest]

I think there's some definite maturity and control issues going on with your

MIL. It's clear from your description that she tries to control people with

food, and there might even be some passive-aggressiveness thrown in for good

measure. My mother has maturity issues, too, and basically eats the diet of

a (poorly eating) twelve-year-old boy: soda, dessert for breakfast, pizza,

etc. She did know prior to my son's birth that we were totally dedicated to

our vegan lifestyle and maintaining the same thing for our child. She also

knows that I am serious enough that her relationship with my child would

suffer because I wouldn't be able to trust her with him if she did not

respect our standards. It does NOT mean that she would have to understand

them or we would have to properly justify it to her: those were the rules

and she respects that. My son is four and we've had no problems.

 

I'd say that when you're dealing with someone with these issues, you have to

be very simple and clear. I think over-explaining will add to confusion and

it's subtly subverting your authority as parent. Does she have to justify

her every conviction to you or for fear that otherwise you'd undermine it?

I'd guess not. Have you tried to make an analogy she might understand, like,

comparing it to Jews eating a Kosher diet, that it's against their beliefs

to violate it? She might not be mature enough. You may have to speak to her

as though she were a child and simply say, " Because I said so. "

 

It's really sad what she's doing to your father-in-law. I knew a couple with

the exact same dynamic when I was growing up - they were friends of my

parents - and it really tortured him. There were other things going on in

that marriage as well that are likely not happening with your in-laws, but

he did end up committing suicide. I'm not trying to be overly-dramatic, but

that is what happened. I have very clear memories of her literally chasing

him through the house with a plate of food. Scary, scary...

 

Marla

 

> yes, i have explained extensively. as a student midwife, i'm a serious

> student of nutrition and i've shared everything i know with our families.

> my in-laws consider it irrelevent. they refuse to believe that farming has

> changed at all from " their day. " my MIL's grandfather was a dairy farmer and

> he had the typical pastoral scene of a few dairy cows hanging out in the

> pasture with the chickens. they think farming is still like that and

> anything that says or shows that it is not is " propaganda. " for most big

> family meals, like at holidays, we actually provide most of the food, other

> than the obligatory centerpiece carcass. everyone loves our food and sees

> that we eat well. nobody *really* believes that we are deprived. and as

> for health, my in-laws could care less if something is healthy or not. so i

> really don't know what it is, other than that my MIL equates food with

> love. as an example, my FIL is severely obese and has always been

> overweight. in the last few years he has actually lost quite a bit of

> weight by exercise alone. by exercise alone because my MIL refuses to let

> him eat normally. she always gives him the biggest portions at a meal and

> insists that he have multiple servings. if he says no, she gets mad and

> assumes that he doesn't like her food. so there's really no hope for him,

> or anyone else who lives in that house (my husband and his five siblings

> have all struggled with weight issues until they move out). so i guess that

> really is all it is for my MIL; she feels like she has to express her love

> by giving our kids what she views as " treats " - when to us, a " treat " is

> some fruit leather or a smoothie and our son is quite satisfied with that

> because that's all he's ever known, which is GREAT! my guess is that she

> feels it is her duty as a grandparent to " spoil " our kids, and since we have

> our own ideas on pretty much everything (toys, food, tv, etc.), she slips

> stuff in where she can, food being a big one since she refuses to be

> educated and really doesn't have any respect for us at all because she

> thinks she knows better. as for my FIL, i think he just doesn't think it's

> a big deal if our kids have a " little bit " of something. he's also

> resistant to education, couldn't care less, but in a much more passive way

> than my MIL.

>

> i have wanted to sit down with them again, now that isaiah is getting older

> and they are undermining our authority like this, and try to lay down the

> law a little more firmly, but i know that the #1 question they will have is,

> why does it matter if they have a little something that happens to have egg

> or milk in it? since they wouldn't know any differently anyway and

> health-wise, a tiny amount like that isn't really going to affect them? and

> i don't know that i have a really good answer for that other than " no means

> no. " ???

>

> On 1/29/07, Jess <veg4animals2006 wrote:

>>

>> Have you sat down and spoken to them about the specific reasons you have

>> chosen to raise your children vegan? Be prepared for questions and let them

>> know that food is not something you base your family around. It shouldn't be

>> a way to bond. Just be sure to have lots of evidence as to exactly why

>> you've chosen to be vegan. I know it will be hard (my father can't

>> understand, no matter how much information I've given him.. and sometimes

>> it's just that way.) It's not the best decision, but if they just can't seem

>> to accept it, maybe family meals with the in-laws isn't a good idea? Or

>> perhaps you could invite them over for a vegan meal?

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Jessica, Robert, and Baby Jesse

>>

>> Life is an adventure in forgiveness.

>> Norman Cousins (1915 - 1990)

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> earthmother <earthmother213

>>

>> Monday, January 29, 2007 9:57:05 AM

>> family struggles

>>

>> i am posting this here because i know the people on this list are the only

>> ones who would understand. this is SO frustrating.

>>

>> we are vegan. we have an almost-2 y/o boy, isaiah, and a 9 w/o girl,

>> willow. my husband's family knows we are vegan. we've made it very clear

>> what we do and do not eat. in general, excluding confusing additives,

>> there's no way that they can give isaiah something with an animal product

>> in

>> it and not know about it.

>>

>> we've raised isaiah vegan from birth, so we've always worried that things

>> would be really hard with our families. now that isaiah is pretty

>> autonomous, and can ask for things and express himself, but is not yet old

>> enough to understand or express what we do and do not eat, things have

>> become extremely difficult.

>>

>> last night we had dinner at my in-laws. we've converted my BIL and his

>> wife

>> to veg, so now 2 of the 5 married couples in the fam are veg, so my MIL

>> very

>> kindly tries to make something we can eat - last night she made sweet and

>> sour chicken and made half of it without chicken for us. we're so grateful

>> for her kindness and consideration of us that, when we eat over there, as

>> long as the food is animal-free, we eat it, even if it's white rice or

>> lettuce so covered in pesticide it's bitter. but we always stand firm on

>> the vegan thing.

>>

>> after dinner, my MIL served not one, but two cakes. (this family has some

>> major obesity problems and it's no surprise.) one chocolate cake with

>> chocolate icing and one carrot cake with cream cheese frosting. we knew

>> that an issue would come up with isaiah asking for food because he doesn't

>> know any better, so we took him into another room to play. my MIL followed

>> us in with a plate of carrot cake. isaiah was pretty uninterested until

>> she

>> started making all kinds of noises about how good the cake was. he came

>> over and sat on her lap and she gave him a bite. my husband said, " mom, we

>> don't eat eggs and milk. " she hemmed and hawed but said ok. a few minutes

>> later, she tried to give him another bite. (he hadn't even asked for it.)

>> my husband put his hand in front isaiah's mouth and said, again, " mom, we

>> don't eat that stuff, please stop trying to feed it to him. " she said,

>> " it's only a little bit, it's not like i'm giving him a fried egg or a

>> glass

>> of milk! " he said, " i'm sorry, we don't eat that stuff. beyond the white

>> flour, white sugar, and refined oils, it has animal products in it, and

>> you

>> know we don't eat that no matter what. " she said ok. a few minutes later,

>> she tried to give him a bite AGAIN! so my husband picked isaiah up and

>> left

>> the room. she got really mad and said that we were being really stupid and

>> couldn't we see how sad he was and how much we were depriving him. (he

>> wasn't sad; he didn't even notice. and he hadn't even been asking for it

>> or

>> showing any interest beyond the first bite - probably he didn't even like

>> it

>> and that's why he didn't ask for more.)

>>

>> my MIL went in the other room and started complaining to my FIL that she

>> had

>> just given isaiah a " tiny bite " of cake and we had freaked out and that

>> she

>> was sick of not being able to enjoy food with her grandson. (food is a

>> very

>> big deal in this family. we ALWAYS bring things isaiah can eat, including

>> sweet - but healthy - stuff like cookies, so it's not like there's nothing

>> they can feed him.)

>>

>> my husband and i feel like this really indicates that we absolutely cannot

>> trust them - if they'll so deliberately go against our explicit wishes and

>> do it right in front of us, what are they going to feed him when we're not

>> around to say no? how confusing is it going to be for our kids if we say

>> that we don't eat these things because it hurts our bodies and the

>> animals,

>> and then they go over there and get to eat it?

>>

>> i am so frustrated! it's even worse when they try to feed him something

>> because he's showing interest or asking for it and i have to come along

>> like

>> the bad guy and say no and then they freak out because we're being so

>> " mean "

>> to him. what happened to parents who would have said with their own kids,

>> " they shouldn't get everything they ask for " or " just because he wants it

>> doesn't mean he should have it or that it's good for him or healthy " or

>> " we're the parents; we decide what our kids do and don't do " ? why is there

>> such a complete turnaround when the parents become grandparents? i just

>> don't get it.

>>

>> chandelle'

>>

>> --

>> The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.

>> -Gloria Steinem

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi

 

I don't think many people could kill, prepare, cook and eat an animal

even if they do eat meat themselves. I remember very clearly my mother

saying that if she had to kill to eat, she would be vegetarian because

she couldn't look at herself in the mirror once she'd killed something.

 

Maggie

San Ramon CA

[Guest guest]

I would have a freakin cow if someone gave my child chicken nuggets or sausage

like that! Why are they having to stay with you? I would check vegetarian

restaurants and see if they have listings for veg nannies.

Renee

 

 

 

 

" darranged " <darranged

 

Monday, January 29, 2007 6:56:35 PM

Re: family struggles

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>Just know that you're not alone in this. We no longer allow my

 

>parents to be alone with the kids unless >they're in our house (no

 

>meat in the house, not even in the dog food).

 

 

 

While this logic is good, with grandparents it doesn't always work.

 

My MIL has blatantly said " Well, I don't want to eat your food " not

 

because of _what_ it is but apparently she's uncomfortable taking my

 

food to feed to my kid because I may have had other plans for it,

 

like she'd screw up our grocery budget or I wouldn't know what to

 

make for dinner because she used something.

 

 

 

I even try to compromise, and buy stuff like vegetarian chik*n

 

nuggets, and what do they do? Get wendy's and feed her those chicken

 

nuggets. And bring her chocolate milk pints when I have a half-gallon

 

of chocolate soy milk in the fridge.

 

 

 

And don't get me started on the sandwiches (lunch meat-- it's not

 

ham, it's turkey ham--like that matters)--I bake bread, they bring a

 

loaf of " whole wheat " Strohmann from the discount bread store. I buy

 

Terra vegetable chips, they bring potato chips. EVERY MEAL and they

 

LEAVE THE LEFTOVERS HERE and bring MORE chips the next week. It's not

 

uncommon for me to have three bags of open potato chips in my pantry.

 

Then, my FIL brings the jumbo bag of cheese curls-- you know the dark

 

orange ones. I just throw it all away as soon as I see it and pray

 

that they " get it " soon.

 

 

 

But anyway... I don't need advice, I just need to get them out of my

 

house. Unfortunately, job arrangements require this and daycare won't

 

work. I just try to work my schedule so I can circumvent meal

 

conflicts.

 

 

 

Last week, my well meaning MIL bought turkey sausages at Sam's Club--

 

now that's got to be the epitome of factory-farmed, processed food,

 

right? And she asks me when I get home at noon, " Do you want these

 

for dinner? "

 

I say no, and walk away, repulsed that she had those things on my

 

stove (this is the woman who burns meat in my pans. I only have three

 

frying pans and I just threw one away because she made herself meat

 

and forgot about it)

 

Anyway. I walk away. She follows me, holding the sausage. " Are you

 

sure? I bought them at Sam's Club. "

 

I tell her I don't want them.

 

" They're turkey "

 

I'm trying not to lose it. " No, " I say.

 

" They're stuffed with mozzerella and sundried tomatoes. "

 

" We won't eat that, " I say.

 

She drops it.

 

 

 

So, don't think it's safe to have anyone who doesn't understand

 

around your kids. The only way I can keep my IL from giving Eva (my

 

daughter) dairy is to say it gives her an ear infection.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

<!--

 

#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}

#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}

#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}

#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}

#ygrp-text{

font-family:Georgia;

}

#ygrp-text p{

margin:0 0 1em 0;

}

#ygrp-tpmsgs{

font-family:Arial;

clear:both;

}

#ygrp-vitnav{

padding-top:10px;

font-family:Verdana;

font-size:77%;

margin:0;

}

#ygrp-vitnav a{

padding:0 1px;

}

#ygrp-actbar{

clear:both;

margin:25px 0;

white-space:nowrap;

color:#666;

text-align:right;

}

#ygrp-actbar .left{

float:left;

white-space:nowrap;

}

..bld{font-weight:bold;}

#ygrp-grft{

font-family:Verdana;

font-size:77%;

padding:15px 0;

}

#ygrp-ft{

font-family:verdana;

font-size:77%;

border-top:1px solid #666;

padding:5px 0;

}

#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{

padding-bottom:10px;

}

 

#ygrp-vital{

background-color:#e0ecee;

margin-bottom:20px;

padding:2px 0 8px 8px;

}

#ygrp-vital #vithd{

font-size:77%;

font-family:Verdana;

font-weight:bold;

color:#333;

text-transform:uppercase;

}

#ygrp-vital ul{

padding:0;

margin:2px 0;

}

#ygrp-vital ul li{

list-style-type:none;

clear:both;

border:1px solid #e0ecee;

}

#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{

font-weight:bold;

color:#ff7900;

float:right;

width:2em;

text-align:right;

padding-right:.5em;

}

#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{

font-weight:bold;

}

#ygrp-vital a {

text-decoration:none;

}

 

#ygrp-vital a:hover{

text-decoration:underline;

}

 

#ygrp-sponsor #hd{

color:#999;

font-size:77%;

}

#ygrp-sponsor #ov{

padding:6px 13px;

background-color:#e0ecee;

margin-bottom:20px;

}

#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{

padding:0 0 0 8px;

margin:0;

}

#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{

list-style-type:square;

padding:6px 0;

font-size:77%;

}

#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{

text-decoration:none;

font-size:130%;

}

#ygrp-sponsor #nc {

background-color:#eee;

margin-bottom:20px;

padding:0 8px;

}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad{

padding:8px 0;

}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{

font-family:Arial;

font-weight:bold;

color:#628c2a;

font-size:100%;

line-height:122%;

}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{

text-decoration:none;

}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{

text-decoration:underline;

}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{

margin:0;

}

o {font-size:0;}

..MsoNormal {

margin:0 0 0 0;

}

#ygrp-text tt{

font-size:120%;

}

blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}

..replbq {margin:4;}

-->

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

Bored stiff? Loosen up...

Download and play hundreds of games for free on Games.

http://games./games/front

 

 

[Guest guest]

Same here, if anyone fed meat to my kids they wouldn't be around them anymore.

That's a complete disregard for a parent's rights to raise their own children.

 

Renee Carroll <renecarol25 wrote: I

would have a freakin cow if someone gave my child chicken nuggets or sausage

like that! Why are they having to stay with you? I would check vegetarian

restaurants and see if they have listings for veg nannies.

Renee

 

" darranged " <darranged

Monday, January 29, 2007 6:56:35 PM

Re: family struggles

 

>Just know that you're not alone in this. We no longer allow my

 

>parents to be alone with the kids unless >they're in our house (no

 

>meat in the house, not even in the dog food).

 

While this logic is good, with grandparents it doesn't always work.

 

My MIL has blatantly said " Well, I don't want to eat your food " not

 

because of _what_ it is but apparently she's uncomfortable taking my

 

food to feed to my kid because I may have had other plans for it,

 

like she'd screw up our grocery budget or I wouldn't know what to

 

make for dinner because she used something.

 

I even try to compromise, and buy stuff like vegetarian chik*n

 

nuggets, and what do they do? Get wendy's and feed her those chicken

 

nuggets. And bring her chocolate milk pints when I have a half-gallon

 

of chocolate soy milk in the fridge.

 

And don't get me started on the sandwiches (lunch meat-- it's not

 

ham, it's turkey ham--like that matters)--I bake bread, they bring a

 

loaf of " whole wheat " Strohmann from the discount bread store. I buy

 

Terra vegetable chips, they bring potato chips. EVERY MEAL and they

 

LEAVE THE LEFTOVERS HERE and bring MORE chips the next week. It's not

 

uncommon for me to have three bags of open potato chips in my pantry.

 

Then, my FIL brings the jumbo bag of cheese curls-- you know the dark

 

orange ones. I just throw it all away as soon as I see it and pray

 

that they " get it " soon.

 

But anyway... I don't need advice, I just need to get them out of my

 

house. Unfortunately, job arrangements require this and daycare won't

 

work. I just try to work my schedule so I can circumvent meal

 

conflicts.

 

Last week, my well meaning MIL bought turkey sausages at Sam's Club--

 

now that's got to be the epitome of factory-farmed, processed food,

 

right? And she asks me when I get home at noon, " Do you want these

 

for dinner? "

 

I say no, and walk away, repulsed that she had those things on my

 

stove (this is the woman who burns meat in my pans. I only have three

 

frying pans and I just threw one away because she made herself meat

 

and forgot about it)

 

Anyway. I walk away. She follows me, holding the sausage. " Are you

 

sure? I bought them at Sam's Club. "

 

I tell her I don't want them.

 

" They're turkey "

 

I'm trying not to lose it. " No, " I say.

 

" They're stuffed with mozzerella and sundried tomatoes. "

 

" We won't eat that, " I say.

 

She drops it.

 

So, don't think it's safe to have anyone who doesn't understand

 

around your kids. The only way I can keep my IL from giving Eva (my

 

daughter) dairy is to say it gives her an ear infection.

 

<!--

 

#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}

#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99%

arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}

#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}

#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}

#ygrp-text{

font-family:Georgia;

}

#ygrp-text p{

margin:0 0 1em 0;

}

#ygrp-tpmsgs{

font-family:Arial;

clear:both;

}

#ygrp-vitnav{

padding-top:10px;

font-family:Verdana;

font-size:77%;

margin:0;

}

#ygrp-vitnav a{

padding:0 1px;

}

#ygrp-actbar{

clear:both;

margin:25px 0;

white-space:nowrap;

color:#666;

text-align:right;

}

#ygrp-actbar .left{

float:left;

white-space:nowrap;

}

.bld{font-weight:bold;}

#ygrp-grft{

font-family:Verdana;

font-size:77%;

padding:15px 0;

}

#ygrp-ft{

font-family:verdana;

font-size:77%;

border-top:1px solid #666;

padding:5px 0;

}

#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{

padding-bottom:10px;

}

 

#ygrp-vital{

background-color:#e0ecee;

margin-bottom:20px;

padding:2px 0 8px 8px;

}

#ygrp-vital #vithd{

font-size:77%;

font-family:Verdana;

font-weight:bold;

color:#333;

text-transform:uppercase;

}

#ygrp-vital ul{

padding:0;

margin:2px 0;

}

#ygrp-vital ul li{

list-style-type:none;

clear:both;

border:1px solid #e0ecee;

}

#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{

font-weight:bold;

color:#ff7900;

float:right;

width:2em;

text-align:right;

padding-right:.5em;

}

#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{

font-weight:bold;

}

#ygrp-vital a {

text-decoration:none;

}

 

#ygrp-vital a:hover{

text-decoration:underline;

}

 

#ygrp-sponsor #hd{

color:#999;

font-size:77%;

}

#ygrp-sponsor #ov{

padding:6px 13px;

background-color:#e0ecee;

margin-bottom:20px;

}

#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{

padding:0 0 0 8px;

margin:0;

}

#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{

list-style-type:square;

padding:6px 0;

font-size:77%;

}

#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{

text-decoration:none;

font-size:130%;

}

#ygrp-sponsor #nc {

background-color:#eee;

margin-bottom:20px;

padding:0 8px;

}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad{

padding:8px 0;

}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{

font-family:Arial;

font-weight:bold;

color:#628c2a;

font-size:100%;

line-height:122%;

}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{

text-decoration:none;

}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{

text-decoration:underline;

}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{

margin:0;

}

o {font-size:0;}

.MsoNormal {

margin:0 0 0 0;

}

#ygrp-text tt{

font-size:120%;

}

blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}

.replbq {margin:4;}

-->

 

________

Bored stiff? Loosen up...

Download and play hundreds of games for free on Games.

http://games./games/front

 

[Guest guest]

They don't stay with me, they babysit two days a week. If I could

afford a nanny, I wouldn't work. I just mentioned my struggles as a

warning who think well-meaning relatives wouldn't manage to break

every principle you have even if in your house, surrounded by healthy

alternatives. My situation is complex. Don't worry about it.

 

>I would have a freakin cow if someone gave my child chicken nuggets

>or sausage like that! Why are they having to stay with you? I

>would check vegetarian restaurants and see if they have listings for

>veg nannies.

>Renee

>

[Guest guest]

To me, it's the lesser of evils type situation. So, please stop

telling me how wrong they are. I mentioned it as a warning. Some of

us can't afford to alienate our parents, because we need the help.

And part of it is my fault for letting little things slide in the

past.

 

>Same here, if anyone fed meat to my kids they wouldn't be around

>them anymore. That's a complete disregard for a parent's rights to

>raise their own children.

[Guest guest]

hi, I'm pretty new on here, and this is only my second post, but I have a

feeling I am going to be running into this problem with my in-laws, too. As my

in-laws live in Japan and won't be coming for another two years, (the only time

they saw my daughter was when she was 3 months and not having anything besides

milk), I have a little time to teach her. But when I saw them, they did other

things deliberately in a way I told them not to, and my MIL said, " I read the

ingredients, and whole wheat tortillas aren't any better than regular. " I looked

at them and said, " uh, they have fewer calories, more fiber, and less fat. " She

said, " Well, the carbs are the same. " So, yes, it will be VERY hard to visit

them.

 

Anyways, when she or anyone else says my kid is deprived, or going to be

deprived, I just say, " You're right! She is going to be deprived of caner, heart

problems, obesity and the social problems that comes with it. She will be

deprived of other health problems, pesticides, and toxins. And the list goes

on. " That usually shuts them right up.

 

earthmother <earthmother213 wrote: i

am posting this here because i know the people on this list are the only

ones who would understand. this is SO frustrating.

 

we are vegan. we have an almost-2 y/o boy, isaiah, and a 9 w/o girl,

willow. my husband's family knows we are vegan. we've made it very clear

what we do and do not eat. in general, excluding confusing additives,

there's no way that they can give isaiah something with an animal product in

it and not know about it.

 

we've raised isaiah vegan from birth, so we've always worried that things

would be really hard with our families. now that isaiah is pretty

autonomous, and can ask for things and express himself, but is not yet old

enough to understand or express what we do and do not eat, things have

become extremely difficult.

 

last night we had dinner at my in-laws. we've converted my BIL and his wife

to veg, so now 2 of the 5 married couples in the fam are veg, so my MIL very

kindly tries to make something we can eat - last night she made sweet and

sour chicken and made half of it without chicken for us. we're so grateful

for her kindness and consideration of us that, when we eat over there, as

long as the food is animal-free, we eat it, even if it's white rice or

lettuce so covered in pesticide it's bitter. but we always stand firm on

the vegan thing.

 

after dinner, my MIL served not one, but two cakes. (this family has some

major obesity problems and it's no surprise.) one chocolate cake with

chocolate icing and one carrot cake with cream cheese frosting. we knew

that an issue would come up with isaiah asking for food because he doesn't

know any better, so we took him into another room to play. my MIL followed

us in with a plate of carrot cake. isaiah was pretty uninterested until she

started making all kinds of noises about how good the cake was. he came

over and sat on her lap and she gave him a bite. my husband said, " mom, we

don't eat eggs and milk. " she hemmed and hawed but said ok. a few minutes

later, she tried to give him another bite. (he hadn't even asked for it.)

my husband put his hand in front isaiah's mouth and said, again, " mom, we

don't eat that stuff, please stop trying to feed it to him. " she said,

" it's only a little bit, it's not like i'm giving him a fried egg or a glass

of milk! " he said, " i'm sorry, we don't eat that stuff. beyond the white

flour, white sugar, and refined oils, it has animal products in it, and you

know we don't eat that no matter what. " she said ok. a few minutes later,

she tried to give him a bite AGAIN! so my husband picked isaiah up and left

the room. she got really mad and said that we were being really stupid and

couldn't we see how sad he was and how much we were depriving him. (he

wasn't sad; he didn't even notice. and he hadn't even been asking for it or

showing any interest beyond the first bite - probably he didn't even like it

and that's why he didn't ask for more.)

 

my MIL went in the other room and started complaining to my FIL that she had

just given isaiah a " tiny bite " of cake and we had freaked out and that she

was sick of not being able to enjoy food with her grandson. (food is a very

big deal in this family. we ALWAYS bring things isaiah can eat, including

sweet - but healthy - stuff like cookies, so it's not like there's nothing

they can feed him.)

 

my husband and i feel like this really indicates that we absolutely cannot

trust them - if they'll so deliberately go against our explicit wishes and

do it right in front of us, what are they going to feed him when we're not

around to say no? how confusing is it going to be for our kids if we say

that we don't eat these things because it hurts our bodies and the animals,

and then they go over there and get to eat it?

 

i am so frustrated! it's even worse when they try to feed him something

because he's showing interest or asking for it and i have to come along like

the bad guy and say no and then they freak out because we're being so " mean "

to him. what happened to parents who would have said with their own kids,

" they shouldn't get everything they ask for " or " just because he wants it

doesn't mean he should have it or that it's good for him or healthy " or

" we're the parents; we decide what our kids do and don't do " ? why is there

such a complete turnaround when the parents become grandparents? i just

don't get it.

 

chandelle'

 

--

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.

-Gloria Steinem

 

[Guest guest]

Regarding intrusive in-laws, or over-indulgent

grandparents,

I can completely relate.

While we are just beginning our vegetarian journey, I

am not looking forward to the battles down the road.

With both my parents and my husband's, I have had more

than enough moments of standing up for my " weird "

lifestyle choices of not allowing my children to eat

all the sugary and fat-laden snacks they can get their

hands on, or even worse, telling the grandparents that

they need to stop buying them more toys and presents

than the children can even appreciate.

I took the worst flak for this from my MIL because she

can't understand why you wouldn't want your child to

have everything.

" I don't want to not buy something for her if I see it

in the store and I want to give it to her, " she said.

Yes, odd grammar, but truthfully, she didn't want to

put limits on herself. It had nothing to do with

limiting my child. It was all about her (MIL) feelings

and what she (MIL) wanted. The gifts also had nothing

to do with my child and making her happy, as Grandma

said they did. The gifts were there because my child's

reaction to them made Grandma feel good about herself.

I felt like she was using my child as an

anti-depressant, which is fine in many ways (kids can

definitely lift your spirits), but she never really

" got it. "

 

Now, my husband and I have chosen not to eat meat. We

are not vegan...yet, but they still think we're

completely nuts, overboard, misguided, jeopardizing

our health. My parents all along have had trouble

with the most basic healthy choices, like limiting

sugar and nasty snacks. They don't understand why my

perfectly healthy, not-overweight children can't have

a candy bar, ice cream, " fruit " snacks, etc. etc.

whenever they come to Grandma's. I don't trust them at

all to feed the kids well. When my nephew was 4 days

old, my mother decided he needed to eat some grape

jelly. ?? After all, all healthy newborns need to

have their first taste of grape jelly before their 5th

day of life.

 

I would say I don't get it, but what it seems to be is

that they have been adults for so long they don't like

someone telling them what to do, and they're going to

rebel and do what they want. If a fun idea occurs to

them involving the grandchildren, they're going to

push it even if it isn't what we want.

 

I recently viewed a video my dad made of my daughter

when she was 2 yrs. old. He had taken her to the

corner park while he and my mom were sitting for us.

He had also taken along the videocamera for fun. So

I'm watching this video 8 years later of my then 2

year old, standing at the top of a tall slide, crying,

with no pants on over her diaper (why no pants??), and

my dad videotaping at the bottom, " Come on honey, you

can do it. Just slide down, " and I'm thinking 'why no

pants?' 'where is my mother?' and 'thank God she

didn't fall off the slide.'

I love my parents, but I am so grateful that they had

me when they were young enough to think

clearly...well, clearly enough.

 

I don't honestly think that there is a good solution

to a rebellious grandparent. Once you have explained

it, they either choose to honor your choices or their

own. Makes for strained family gatherings, but you

just have to police them.

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

Looking for earth-friendly autos?

Browse Top Cars by " Green Rating " at Autos' Green Center.

http://autos./green_center/

[Guest guest]

Sorry I didn't mean for it to seem like I was jumping on you. My father-in-law

stayed with us for several months. He at least cooked/ate vegetarian at our

home. He was planning to build a house next to us as we own the 5 acre plot

next to us. Financially we really needed him next to us. To help out with our

daughter (things like picking her up from school especially in the event of an

emergency instead of having to pay someone to). And also to offload that piece

of land because we really need the money. It doesn't benefit us any just

sitting there. I was out of work for several months and since November I've

only been working part-time. We had an issue at Thanksgiving though where he

invited my husband's brother and sisters' families to our house for

Thanksgiving. Expecting to cook turkey in our home when we never allow any meat

in our house. It was pretty warm here he was thinking he could grill a turkey

outside on his grill and have everyone eat outside. My

husband and I talked and finally decided that was unexceptable. If we allowed

that he would expect to cook meat at our house all the time and it would end up

inside in the fridge. We decided that everyone could have a veg Thanksgiving (I

had a lot of things planned tofurky, stuffing, gravy, mashed potatoes,

cranberries, sweet potatoes and apples, pies, etc) with us if they wanted to

come. And that is what we did. And all the cooking got left on me to do for

it. And pay for the food as well (when I had just returned to work parttime

after being unemployed). My husband made pumpkin and apple pie with my

sister-in-law. Pretty neglible contribution to the meal if I do say so myself.

I had a lot of anger for having to do ALL the cooking for people I didn't even

invite. We have managed to alienate my fil when we were getting along pretty

well. The loss of his support (he was cooking for us vegetarian meals even,

cleaning, helping watch our daughter). I understand what

it is like to need it. I want to believe we are better off. I just signed a

paper agreeing to pay my daughter's Tae Kwon Do center $15 a day to pick her up

if school gets out early for any reason. The Tae Kwon Do center is ran by a

mixed-veg family so I at least trust they know what to feed her.

Renee

 

 

" darranged " <darranged

 

Monday, January 29, 2007 8:34:48 PM

Re: family struggles

 

To me, it's the lesser of evils type situation. So, please stop

telling me how wrong they are. I mentioned it as a warning. Some of

us can't afford to alienate our parents, because we need the help.

And part of it is my fault for letting little things slide in the

past.

 

>Same here, if anyone fed meat to my kids they wouldn't be around

>them anymore. That's a complete disregard for a parent's rights to

>raise their own children.

 

 

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

Bored stiff? Loosen up...

Download and play hundreds of games for free on Games.

http://games./games/front

 

 

[Guest guest]

<<I took the worst flak for this from my MIL because

she can't understand why you wouldn't want your child

to have everything. " I don't want to not buy something

for her if I see it in the store and I want to give it

to her, " she said. Yes, odd grammar, but truthfully,

she didn't want to put limits on herself. It had

nothing to do with limiting my child. It was all about

her (MIL) feelings and what she (MIL) wanted. The

gifts also had nothing to do with my child and making

her happy, as Grandma said they did. The gifts were

there because my child's reaction to them made Grandma

feel good about herself.>>

 

I know this is slightly OT because it doesn't deal

directly with veg stuff, but here's what I did to get

the point across to my dad: I explained to him that

if every time he saw my kids he brought them

something, then he would never know if they were happy

to see him because of HIM, or because of the gifts.

He got the point. I hope your MIL can see the logic,

too.

 

Liz

[Guest guest]

I agree that hunting is far less offensive than factory farmed

products. And you're right, I don't think the grandfather would

stand a chance getting the child to hunt.

 

As for chicken nuggets from Wendy's, the first time someone who knows

our diet tried feeding that to my children would be the last time. I

think you might find that you have better luck with a daycare or

babysitter.

Jill

 

, darranged wrote:

>

> >It will become an issue though when my dad

> >tries to take my son hunting. I am dreading that day. How do you

explain

> >to your son that grandpa kills animals, the very ones we try so

hard to

> >protect?

> >

> >

>

> I may get flamed for this, but, I would have less of a problem with

> that than say, McDOnalds. My problem is the big business of food,

the

> questionable practices of factory farming, the impact of food-borne

> illness and the fact that we don't know where our food comes from.

> So, in that line of thinking, if you went out, was able to kill it

> and clean it, go ahead and eat it, because you made an informed

> choice, took responsibility for it and did it without big business

> interfering. But I don't think anyone raised on a veg diet would be

> able to do that.

>

[Guest guest]

I love my parents, but I am so grateful that they had

me when they were young enough to think

clearly...well, clearly enough.

 

I'm sorry, but this just makes me laugh! We've also had to get after my mom

about buying the kids stuff. Books are fine. She can buy them all the books she

wants. But she'll see something cute in the store for one of the kids, and then

she AND my dad (he's in on this too) will spend an hour and a half in the store

picking out something for the other child. I'll get phone calls from one or the

other of them at 9 at night asking if there's anything Jeffery wants. ??? I

remember wearing the same $2 pair of plaid flannel pajama shorts to school three

days in a row! Now this!!! And they mail these things (they live in TX, we live

in IL) to the kids and insist on being on the phone when the kids open it. And

you know what else they do? They send me and Jeff something like a t-shirt from

the thrift store. I actually think it's funny. A little silly, but funny. They

mean well.

 

 

 

..

 

 

 

 

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

Build a man a fire and he'll stay warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll

stay warm the rest of his life.

 

" THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!! " -Captain Picard, Next Generation, " Chain of Command

part 2 "

 

Check out my new , Classical 2 at

http://launch.classical2/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited.

 

 

[Guest guest]

why not ask them to take the money they would spend on gifts and put it in an

education savings account? this worked with my parents...

 

Kadee M <abbey_road3012 wrote:

 

I love my parents, but I am so grateful that they had

me when they were young enough to think

clearly...well, clearly enough.

 

I'm sorry, but this just makes me laugh! We've also had to get after my mom

about buying the kids stuff. Books are fine. She can buy them all the books she

wants. But she'll see something cute in the store for one of the kids, and then

she AND my dad (he's in on this too) will spend an hour and a half in the store

picking out something for the other child. I'll get phone calls from one or the

other of them at 9 at night asking if there's anything Jeffery wants. ??? I

remember wearing the same $2 pair of plaid flannel pajama shorts to school three

days in a row! Now this!!! And they mail these things (they live in TX, we live

in IL) to the kids and insist on being on the phone when the kids open it. And

you know what else they do? They send me and Jeff something like a t-shirt from

the thrift store. I actually think it's funny. A little silly, but funny. They

mean well.

 

..

 

 

 

 

Kadee Sedtal

 

Build a man a fire and he'll stay warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll

stay warm the rest of his life.

 

" THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!! " -Captain Picard, Next Generation, " Chain of Command

part 2 "

 

Check out my new , Classical 2 at

http://launch.classical2/

 

 

Access over 1 million songs - Music Unlimited.