why organic matters - for Lfriend

March 14, 2007

We're pretty tight on cash, my husband is the only one working, I am 'at

home' with our son and the sacrifices are worth it for us. Beans and rice

are very inexpensive (we do get canned, organic, no salt ones because they

are nice and quick). Eat more of that as the meat replacers (ie vegan

burgers/premade seitan) are very expensive. We get them on occasion as they

are quick (they are better than their counterparts, but still wouldn't base

my diet off of them every day). Tofu is pretty inexpensive, as well (one

brick can make a meal for at least 4, a bit mroe if you stretch it (like

tofu burgers or in a stirfry).

Depending on where you are, vital gluten flour seems kind of expensive for

the little bag (bob's red mill) but enough for 6 servings is only like 2

cups of it and I think you can get 2-3 of those out of one bag, so it' isn't

very expensive - the pre-made ones are extremely expensive.

We tend to get our things second hand when we can. We can't always afford

organic foods, but we do have a yard now, and I've just started a compost

pile out back, and have laid out my kitchen garden for this year, so we can

eat from that instead of stuff from the store. We also have farmer's markets

(not always available in some places - like where my mom is, but she can go

to the flea market and there are folks who run fresh vegetable stands all

year long so she tends to go there )

I think it may have been in the Economist, or maybe some other magazine or

somewhere else, but it basically said that sure organic was good, if you can

afford it, BUT if you are still buying stuff that travels just as far as the

non-organic stuff, it loses nutrients just like those do and isnt' much

better overall (nutrient wise, not otherwise). If you can get stuff fresher

that is not organic, it is better because it has more nutrients because it

didn't have as far to travel. I also found a list somewhere online that was

a list of what you SHOULD buy organic and stuff that you could just get

regularly (usually tough skinned fruits/vegies and stuff pesticides/etc

don't stick to/get into). It was handy and made me feel better about what we

could get from here or there, and of course the farmer's market in the

spring/summer/fall.

We go to a children's clothing consignment sale 2x a year (it's seasonal),

we do a lot of 'thrifting' for some things, but probably not as often as we

ought to...I don't think running out and getting new clothes to replace

yours is good for the environment...as what you have, if it's in good

condition...than it's fine. One of my favorite pairs of pants is from the

goodwill. Sometimes you can find stuff that is much better made than the

junk they sell today. It's amazing. My grandma had to take so much stuff to

the salvation army, and I know she had tons of it for as long as I can

remember and I know it was older than that (maybe some from when my mom was

a kid). I couldn't take it all - I wish I could have taken more than I

did...Reusing things I think is better than always getting the new stuff.

As for cleaning supplies - vinegar, water and baking soda are your friends.

Vinegar is a mild antibacterial/antiviral. Mix with water 1:1 or 2:1 for

stronger solutions. As we find $ to spare in teh budget I get essential oils

(tea tree oil is an anti-viral/anti-bacterial/anti-sceptic as is I think

grapefriut extract) Lavender essential oil is as well (I order them from a

food buying co-op we're part of and many of them are organic and some are

even environmentally friendly harvested).

We also do what we can when we can do it.

I'm just getting more excited about having our own garden this year, a REAL

garden - I could take up our whole yard with one, but I think my son should

have some space out there to play. LOL. Though when I was designing it,

and told my husband I wanted to make the design into a bio-hazard symbol, he

suggested taking the entire front yard to do it so we could googlemap it.

I hope this comes off as helpful as I totally know what you mean with funds

being tight, and trying to make the best choices. You're not alone, as

it's one of my frustrations. Sometimes you can only do so much. Once my son

is in school (next year) I'll be back to work part time, so things will

hopefully be a bit better then.

Missie

On 2/21/07, L Friend <mountain_laurel1183 wrote:

>

> You know what else is sad? That many of the poor are forced to exploit

> other poor people because they can't afford to get the non-exploited

> products, such as the fair trade chocolates and coffees. My husband and I,

> who are just starting out and are kind of poor, can't afford to buy the

> organic clothes, coffee, and foods, etc. We make sacrifices just to buy the

> organic foods because they are hard to find and very expensive in our area.

> And if you think the food is hard to find, the clothes are almost

> impossible--online ordering only if we were going to do that. For us, it is

> definitely not cheaper to be vegetarian and even more expensive to be vegan

> (which we aren't entirely due to the difficulty of finding foods and the

> social aspect of it--our situation is a little different). It makes me sad,

> but I don't know what else to do. We do what we can, but it never seems

> enough. As we find out how terrible one product is and replace it, another

> one pops up. I don't buy chocolate

> or coffee hardly at all any more, but we have to have clothes and we can't

> afford to replace our entire wardrobe. It is definitely frustrating to me.

>

> Tricia McElwee <triciamcelwee <triciamcelwee%40>>

> wrote: If you're not feeling too weepy, check out the Environmental Justice

> Foundation's reports on White Gold to see the blanket poverty and

> devastation conventional cotton brings to the nation of Uzbekistan. Good

> reason to buy organic and know where you cotton comes from. The White Gold

> video is only 90 seconds....it's quite a video, watch it and pass it onto

> your family and friends. This is a great website for educating yourself on

> what non-organic cottons are doing for agriculture, the environment, child

> labor, etc... in general.

> http://www.ejfoundation.org/

>

> " The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are

> treated. " Gandhi

>

> " Each man is haunted until his humanity awakens " Blake

>

> " Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to give up

> every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abyss

> Nature leads, or you shall learn nothing. " T.H. Huxley

>

> Get your own web address.

> Have a HUGE year through Small Business.

>

March 14, 2007

Regarding gardening: has anyone tried the square foot gardening method or the

raised-bed method? Can anyone recommend a book that is a must-have for a

first-time gardener wanting to use less than a 1/2 acre of land to grow organic

vegetables? I've done container gardening on the deck with extremely small

yields and would like to do some serious planting soon.

March 14, 2007

Hi there,

I'm interested in this as well. I've been gardening for a few years now

in my backyard with raised beds and some flat beds. It's been an

interesting experiment...I haven't read very many books, mostly just

talked to other gardeners for ideas. I'd be interested in knowing if

there is a great book out there too:) So far it seems like there is a

lot of experimentation and learning by making mistakes for me:) I'm

trying starting some seeds inside this year early because we live in a

mountainous area of Canada and the growing season is quite short.

I have to say Kale has so far been my best crop. I started the kale

with some organic seeds from a local seed sharing gathering two years

ago. I let some go to seed each year and collected the seeds to plant

the next year. (But also some of the kale self seeded...so I have a huge

section of kale now. I guess it's a bi-annual so it also regrew the

next year on the last years plants. It was the first and one of the

last things I could eat in my garden and it's full of great nutrients.

It was a bit of a hard sell on the kids but they now love it in soups &

pureed with potatoes as " Green mashed potatoes " .

I think crop rotation, companion planting & good nourishment for the

soil are important for increasing your veggie yeilds...also maybe

getting varieties of plants that suit your climate.

Well, all the best with your garden. I'm looking forward to hearing if

anyone has a good recommendation on a book to read:) Or also a good

recommendation on bear friendly composting?

Melanie.

admartin5 wrote:

>

> Regarding gardening: has anyone tried the square foot gardening method

> or the raised-bed method? Can anyone recommend a book that is a

> must-have for a first-time gardener wanting to use less than a 1/2

> acre of land to grow organic vegetables? I've done container gardening

> on the deck with extremely small yields and would like to do some

> serious planting soon.

>

March 14, 2007

That was totally helpful! Thank you so much. I am new to all this,

and we don't eat a lot of meat substitutes either, but yes, it was

all very helpful. I should buy more secondhand stuff. My parents wore

their stuff completely out--and we are talking duct tape everywhere.

When I was pregnant, I electrocuted myself on an exposed wire on an

appliance that was already duct taped together in other places. After

that, I hated using secondhand stuff, or stuff that was worn out. I

thought their house just looked old and worn out. I have been getting

better about it; I have had to out of necessity, but I can see a LOT

of areas where I could still improve, and your comments helped me

think of even more areas I could save on. Thank you!

Laura

, " Missie Ward " <mszzzi wrote:

>

> We're pretty tight on cash, my husband is the only one working, I

am 'at

> home' with our son and the sacrifices are worth it for us. Beans

and rice

> are very inexpensive (we do get canned, organic, no salt ones

because they

> are nice and quick). Eat more of that as the meat replacers (ie

vegan

> burgers/premade seitan) are very expensive. We get them on occasion

as they

> are quick (they are better than their counterparts, but still

wouldn't base

> my diet off of them every day). Tofu is pretty inexpensive, as well

(one

> brick can make a meal for at least 4, a bit mroe if you stretch it

(like

> tofu burgers or in a stirfry).

> Depending on where you are, vital gluten flour seems kind of

expensive for

> the little bag (bob's red mill) but enough for 6 servings is only

like 2

> cups of it and I think you can get 2-3 of those out of one bag, so

it' isn't

> very expensive - the pre-made ones are extremely expensive.

>

> We tend to get our things second hand when we can. We can't always

afford

> organic foods, but we do have a yard now, and I've just started a

compost

> pile out back, and have laid out my kitchen garden for this year,

so we can

> eat from that instead of stuff from the store. We also have

farmer's markets

> (not always available in some places - like where my mom is, but

she can go

> to the flea market and there are folks who run fresh vegetable

stands all

> year long so she tends to go there )

>

> I think it may have been in the Economist, or maybe some other

magazine or

> somewhere else, but it basically said that sure organic was good,

if you can

> afford it, BUT if you are still buying stuff that travels just as

far as the

> non-organic stuff, it loses nutrients just like those do and isnt'

much

> better overall (nutrient wise, not otherwise). If you can get stuff

fresher

> that is not organic, it is better because it has more nutrients

because it

> didn't have as far to travel. I also found a list somewhere online

that was

> a list of what you SHOULD buy organic and stuff that you could just

get

> regularly (usually tough skinned fruits/vegies and stuff

pesticides/etc

> don't stick to/get into). It was handy and made me feel better

about what we

> could get from here or there, and of course the farmer's market in

the

> spring/summer/fall.

>

> We go to a children's clothing consignment sale 2x a year (it's

seasonal),

> we do a lot of 'thrifting' for some things, but probably not as

often as we

> ought to...I don't think running out and getting new clothes to

replace

> yours is good for the environment...as what you have, if it's in

good

> condition...than it's fine. One of my favorite pairs of pants is

from the

> goodwill. Sometimes you can find stuff that is much better made

than the

> junk they sell today. It's amazing. My grandma had to take so much

stuff to

> the salvation army, and I know she had tons of it for as long as I

can

> remember and I know it was older than that (maybe some from when my

mom was

> a kid). I couldn't take it all - I wish I could have taken more

than I

> did...Reusing things I think is better than always getting the new

stuff.

>

> As for cleaning supplies - vinegar, water and baking soda are your

friends.

> Vinegar is a mild antibacterial/antiviral. Mix with water 1:1 or

2:1 for

> stronger solutions. As we find $ to spare in teh budget I get

essential oils

> (tea tree oil is an anti-viral/anti-bacterial/anti-sceptic as is I

think

> grapefriut extract) Lavender essential oil is as well (I order them

from a

> food buying co-op we're part of and many of them are organic and

some are

> even environmentally friendly harvested).

>

> We also do what we can when we can do it.

>

> I'm just getting more excited about having our own garden this

year, a REAL

> garden - I could take up our whole yard with one, but I think my

son should

> have some space out there to play. LOL. Though when I was

designing it,

> and told my husband I wanted to make the design into a bio-hazard

symbol, he

> suggested taking the entire front yard to do it so we could

googlemap it.

>

> I hope this comes off as helpful as I totally know what you mean

with funds

> being tight, and trying to make the best choices. You're not

alone, as

> it's one of my frustrations. Sometimes you can only do so much.

Once my son

> is in school (next year) I'll be back to work part time, so things

will

> hopefully be a bit better then.

>

> Missie

>

> On 2/21/07, L Friend <mountain_laurel1183 wrote:

> >

> > You know what else is sad? That many of the poor are forced to

exploit

> > other poor people because they can't afford to get the non-

exploited

> > products, such as the fair trade chocolates and coffees. My

husband and I,

> > who are just starting out and are kind of poor, can't afford to

buy the

> > organic clothes, coffee, and foods, etc. We make sacrifices just

to buy the

> > organic foods because they are hard to find and very expensive in

our area.

> > And if you think the food is hard to find, the clothes are almost

> > impossible--online ordering only if we were going to do that. For

us, it is

> > definitely not cheaper to be vegetarian and even more expensive

to be vegan

> > (which we aren't entirely due to the difficulty of finding foods

and the

> > social aspect of it--our situation is a little different). It

makes me sad,

> > but I don't know what else to do. We do what we can, but it never

seems

> > enough. As we find out how terrible one product is and replace

it, another

> > one pops up. I don't buy chocolate

> > or coffee hardly at all any more, but we have to have clothes and

we can't

> > afford to replace our entire wardrobe. It is definitely

frustrating to me.

> >

> > Tricia McElwee <triciamcelwee <triciamcelwee%40>>

> > wrote: If you're not feeling too weepy, check out the

Environmental Justice

> > Foundation's reports on White Gold to see the blanket poverty and

> > devastation conventional cotton brings to the nation of

Uzbekistan. Good

> > reason to buy organic and know where you cotton comes from. The

White Gold

> > video is only 90 seconds....it's quite a video, watch it and pass

it onto

> > your family and friends. This is a great website for educating

yourself on

> > what non-organic cottons are doing for agriculture, the

environment, child

> > labor, etc... in general.

> > http://www.ejfoundation.org/

> >

> > " The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals

are

> > treated. " Gandhi

> >

> > " Each man is haunted until his humanity awakens " Blake

> >

> > " Sit down before fact like a little child, and be prepared to

give up

> > every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever

abyss

> > Nature leads, or you shall learn nothing. " T.H. Huxley

> >

> > Get your own web address.

> > Have a HUGE year through Small Business.

> >

March 14, 2007

" Lasagna Gardening " is good - and an easy set up. It's how I " m doing my

garden this year (I've got maybe a 5sq ft space, but you can do much less

than that). You build it up, and it's like a raised bed system...

For some fun, you can also look up Potager Gardens (also under Kitchen

Gardens) - it's using vegetables and flowers (I have an edible flower garden

book I'm using to add those into it, too). There's a ton of info out on the

net for the potager garden, lists of what is good. Basically it's using

vegetables for a decorative kind of a garden. The same way you'd do or see

flower beds - textures and colors. It's really quite nice. I was trying it

on my own and a friend of mine told me she had this kind. I have a bunch

from the library, too (I only buy the ones I know I'll use all the time).

They tend to be small scale beds (many are raised, too), but there's a lot

of them together to make the designs and such. In France they are front

gardens, so they are small (originally) but they can be quite elaborate if

you have the space and want them to be.

There is a book called Square Foot Gardening (I think that's what it was), a

friend of mine had that one, and it seemed pretty good from what I recall.

We only ever had container gardening before our house, so that's mostly the

ones I have.

Hope that helps.

Missie

On 3/13/07, admartin5 <admartin5 wrote:

>

> Regarding gardening: has anyone tried the square foot gardening method

> or the raised-bed method? Can anyone recommend a book that is a must-have

> for a first-time gardener wanting to use less than a 1/2 acre of land to

> grow organic vegetables? I've done container gardening on the deck with

> extremely small yields and would like to do some serious planting soon.

>

March 15, 2007

Glad it was helpful.

There are some things that we do get new (like appliances, though I have a

blender, but it's from a friend of mine and pretty decent shape - I use it

for papermaking, when I get a chance to do it anyway).

When we get to where things need duct tape, that's when we replace them.

LOL. I've heard of many folks getting shocked and what not from secondhand

appliances. I do have a used ipod, 3rd gen. So it depends on what kinds of

electronics that we get used. That would be one, but something like a

toaster, I'd probably not buy secondhand. Furniture is another one, as I've

heard horror stories from a friend of a friend who got an infestation of

bedbugs (EEK). So you do have to be careful with some stuff.

We don't always get it, but we do where/whenever we can. I have a beautiful

pyrex pie dish I got at a goodwill - the bottom is all textured so it looks

like a pie slice checkerboard.

Missie

On 3/14/07, mountain_laurel1183 <mountain_laurel1183 wrote:

>

> That was totally helpful! Thank you so much. I am new to all this,

> and we don't eat a lot of meat substitutes either, but yes, it was

> all very helpful. I should buy more secondhand stuff. My parents wore

> their stuff completely out--and we are talking duct tape everywhere.

> When I was pregnant, I electrocuted myself on an exposed wire on an

> appliance that was already duct taped together in other places. After

> that, I hated using secondhand stuff, or stuff that was worn out. I

> thought their house just looked old and worn out. I have been getting

> better about it; I have had to out of necessity, but I can see a LOT

> of areas where I could still improve, and your comments helped me

> think of even more areas I could save on. Thank you!

> Laura

>

March 15, 2007

Melanie

My son loves kale. I had never tried it myself and probably never would have

except I was tring to make sure he was as healthy as possible. Usually we

saute it in olive oil with garlic (my son is a bit off onions at the moment

but we used to add onions) and add a little watered down soy sauce (we are

now using Braggs) or Annie's Sesame Shitake salad dressing. To make it a

heartier meal I throw in a can of chick peas and he is in heaven. He has

loved this meal since he was 18 mos/2ish. It is his comfort food. And it

only takes 10 minutes. Like you we have found kale to be our best crop and

it keeps growing despite neglect. Even my meat and potatoes mother likes

kake this way. I also rip off little bits and throw it into miso just a few

minutes before I serve it. My son also likes this and it makes the miso a

little heartier. If you or anyone has any other quick and easy kale ideas

I'd love to hear them. :)Madeline

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March 17, 2007

I love my vintage pyrex; I have a few covered dishes and pie plates.

Missie Ward <mszzzi wrote: Glad it was helpful.