Reliable sources of B12 -- Vegans please read

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

 

I just want to add to this. I am a long-time vegan (16 years)/

vegetarian (30 years). I recently had a blood test which found that I

had the beginnings of pernicious anemia (B-12

deficiency). I had always kept up-to-date on forms of B-12 and vegan

nutrition and taken B vitamins and used nutritional yeast at least

once per week. I had taken a sublingual (under the tongue) over the

years but not regularly. Apparently I was not absorbing the B-12

through my diet. I wonder why, because I'm a very healthy person.

Rarely sick, and good digestion. I have a very good diet (everyone

thinks I'm a " health freak " ). I started taking a sublingual, high

dose, every day and also got occasional B-12 shots. I've been

retested and I am back to normal after around 6 months. I never had

any obvious symptoms and had normal/good energy.

 

Bottom line: From my experience, if you are a long time vegan, get

yourself tested (blood) once in a while. Also, take a sublingual once

a week to be safe (by passes the gastric system just in case you

don't have the intrinsic factor in your gut needed to absorb B-12).

Some forms are absorbed better than others (methylcobalamin -- the

other is cyanocobalamin). I'm wondering if vegans, after many years,

lose the intrinsic factor? I have read that a lot of people (non

vegans as well) start to lose it as they age and should take a

sublingual. I'm only 46, though! I'm just glad that I went to a

naturopathic doctor who recommended testing.

 

Debra, I think these matters should be addressed in the article. What

do you think? I have no idea how common my problem is, but the

standard advice didn't work for me.

 

Tracy

 

On May 21, 2007, at 5:49 AM, Debra Wasserman wrote:

 

> Parents should read the following article from the most recent edition

> of Simply Vegan concerning reliable sources of Vitamin B12. Seaweed is

> not a reliable resource. See:

> http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm

>

> Debra

>

>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

where would you get a sublingual and how much would it cost?

 

i wonder how much of absorption issues are specific to a person regardless

of diet. i have a friend who eats a WAPF sort of diet - TONS of meat,

cheese, milk and eggs - and she was just diagnosed with a major b12

deficiency. she has to get b12 injections every week for six months.

 

On 5/21/07, Tracy Childs <tracychilds wrote:

>

> Hi there,

>

> I just want to add to this. I am a long-time vegan (16 years)/

> vegetarian (30 years). I recently had a blood test which found that I

> had the beginnings of pernicious anemia (B-12

> deficiency). I had always kept up-to-date on forms of B-12 and vegan

> nutrition and taken B vitamins and used nutritional yeast at least

> once per week. I had taken a sublingual (under the tongue) over the

> years but not regularly. Apparently I was not absorbing the B-12

> through my diet. I wonder why, because I'm a very healthy person.

> Rarely sick, and good digestion. I have a very good diet (everyone

> thinks I'm a " health freak " ). I started taking a sublingual, high

> dose, every day and also got occasional B-12 shots. I've been

> retested and I am back to normal after around 6 months. I never had

> any obvious symptoms and had normal/good energy.

>

> Bottom line: From my experience, if you are a long time vegan, get

> yourself tested (blood) once in a while. Also, take a sublingual once

> a week to be safe (by passes the gastric system just in case you

> don't have the intrinsic factor in your gut needed to absorb B-12).

> Some forms are absorbed better than others (methylcobalamin -- the

> other is cyanocobalamin). I'm wondering if vegans, after many years,

> lose the intrinsic factor? I have read that a lot of people (non

> vegans as well) start to lose it as they age and should take a

> sublingual. I'm only 46, though! I'm just glad that I went to a

> naturopathic doctor who recommended testing.

>

> Debra, I think these matters should be addressed in the article. What

> do you think? I have no idea how common my problem is, but the

> standard advice didn't work for me.

>

> Tracy

>

> On May 21, 2007, at 5:49 AM, Debra Wasserman wrote:

>

> > Parents should read the following article from the most recent edition

> > of Simply Vegan concerning reliable sources of Vitamin B12. Seaweed is

> > not a reliable resource. See:

> > http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm

> >

> > Debra

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This may be more than most people want to know but I am posting it to help

explain a bit about vitamin B12.

The absorption of most vitamins is a pretty simple process. Vitamin B12

absorption is more complicated and involves the following:

If you eat animal foods that contains vitamin B12, stomach acid is needed to

separate vitamin B12 from the protein in the animal food. If your vitamin B12

comes from a supplement or a fortified food, this separation from protein step

is not necessary.

Next, in your stomach, the vitamin B12 binds with a special protein called R

protein.

In the small intestines, the R protein is removed and vitamin B12 is bound to

intrinsic factor. Intrinsic factor is a substance that is produced in the

stomach and moves into the small intestine where it hooks onto vitamin B12.

The vitamin B12-intrinsic factor is absorbed towards the end of the small

intestine in an area called the ileum.

If anything goes wrong with any step of this process, vitamin B12 is not

absorbed. What can go wrong? Many things. Here are a few:

a.. You don't produce much stomach acid. This is a condition that is called

atrophic gastritis and that occurs as we get older. Since stomach acid is only

important for those relying on animal foods as a vitamin B12 source,

recommendations for those age 51 and older call for using vitamin B12-fortified

foods or a vitamin B12 supplement as the main source of vitamin B12.

b.. Your body does not produce R protein or intrinsic factor. Loss of

intrinsic factor appears to run in families and to be more common as people get

older (cases have been reported in those as young as 30 although the average age

at diagnosis is 60). Risk factors include a family history of pernicious

anemia, Scandinavian or Northern European descent, and a history of autoimmune

endocrine disorders like type 1 diabetes, Addison's disease, and chronic

thyroiditis . There is no evidence that vegans lose intrinsic factor and as

Tracy points out, pernicious anemia occurs in both vegans and non-vegans. It is

the most common cause of vitamin B12 deficiency in non-elderly non-vegetarians.

A diagnosis of pernicious anemia is due to the loss of intrinsic factor, not to

a dietary vitamin B12 deficiency. As many of 2% of people age 60 and older have

pernicious anemia; it is less common in younger people.

c.. Your stomach or ileum have to be surgically removed

So, it is important for vegans to have a regular, reliable source of vitamin

B12. If you are concerned that you are not absorbing vitamin B12 because of a

lack of intrinsic factor or are concerned about your vitamin B12 status in

general, discuss options for testing vitamin B12 status with your health care

provider.

Reed

 

Re: Reliable sources of B12 -- Vegans please read

Posted by: " Tracy Childs " tracychilds tracychildz

Mon May 21, 2007 6:52 pm (PST)

Hi there,

 

I just want to add to this. I am a long-time vegan (16 years)/

vegetarian (30 years). I recently had a blood test which found that I

had the beginnings of pernicious anemia (B-12

deficiency). I had always kept up-to-date on forms of B-12 and vegan

nutrition and taken B vitamins and used nutritional yeast at least

once per week. I had taken a sublingual (under the tongue) over the

years but not regularly. Apparently I was not absorbing the B-12

through my diet. I wonder why, because I'm a very healthy person.

Rarely sick, and good digestion. I have a very good diet (everyone

thinks I'm a " health freak " ). I started taking a sublingual, high

dose, every day and also got occasional B-12 shots. I've been

retested and I am back to normal after around 6 months. I never had

any obvious symptoms and had normal/good energy.

 

Bottom line: From my experience, if you are a long time vegan, get

yourself tested (blood) once in a while. Also, take a sublingual once

a week to be safe (by passes the gastric system just in case you

don't have the intrinsic factor in your gut needed to absorb B-12).

Some forms are absorbed better than others (methylcobalamin -- the

other is cyanocobalamin). I'm wondering if vegans, after many years,

lose the intrinsic factor? I have read that a lot of people (non

vegans as well) start to lose it as they age and should take a

sublingual. I'm only 46, though! I'm just glad that I went to a

naturopathic doctor who recommended testing.

 

Debra, I think these matters should be addressed in the article. What

do you think? I have no idea how common my problem is, but the

standard advice didn't work for me.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sublingual B-12 should be available at most health food stores. There

are many different kinds. Some dissolve very rapidly under your

tongue, and some take longer. They

are all very high dosage. I believe that is so that some will make it

into your system by being absorbed under your tongue. The rest will

go through the gastric

system and may or may not be absorbed (for most people, it will).

 

Most people should only have to take one every week or so. I took

them twice a day for a while, until I was retested and found not to

have the deficiency any more.

 

Tracy

 

On May 22, 2007, at 7:59 AM, chandelle' wrote:

 

> where would you get a sublingual and how much would it cost?

>

> i wonder how much of absorption issues are specific to a person

> regardless

> of diet. i have a friend who eats a WAPF sort of diet - TONS of meat,

> cheese, milk and eggs - and she was just diagnosed with a major b12

> deficiency. she has to get b12 injections every week for six months.

>

> On 5/21/07, Tracy Childs <tracychilds wrote:

> >

> > Hi there,

> >

> > I just want to add to this. I am a long-time vegan (16 years)/

> > vegetarian (30 years). I recently had a blood test which found

> that I

> > had the beginnings of pernicious anemia (B-12

> > deficiency). I had always kept up-to-date on forms of B-12 and vegan

> > nutrition and taken B vitamins and used nutritional yeast at least

> > once per week. I had taken a sublingual (under the tongue) over the

> > years but not regularly. Apparently I was not absorbing the B-12

> > through my diet. I wonder why, because I'm a very healthy person.

> > Rarely sick, and good digestion. I have a very good diet (everyone

> > thinks I'm a " health freak " ). I started taking a sublingual, high

> > dose, every day and also got occasional B-12 shots. I've been

> > retested and I am back to normal after around 6 months. I never had

> > any obvious symptoms and had normal/good energy.

> >

> > Bottom line: From my experience, if you are a long time vegan, get

> > yourself tested (blood) once in a while. Also, take a sublingual

> once

> > a week to be safe (by passes the gastric system just in case you

> > don't have the intrinsic factor in your gut needed to absorb B-12).

> > Some forms are absorbed better than others (methylcobalamin -- the

> > other is cyanocobalamin). I'm wondering if vegans, after many years,

> > lose the intrinsic factor? I have read that a lot of people (non

> > vegans as well) start to lose it as they age and should take a

> > sublingual. I'm only 46, though! I'm just glad that I went to a

> > naturopathic doctor who recommended testing.

> >

> > Debra, I think these matters should be addressed in the article.

> What

> > do you think? I have no idea how common my problem is, but the

> > standard advice didn't work for me.

> >

> > Tracy

> >

> > On May 21, 2007, at 5:49 AM, Debra Wasserman wrote:

> >

> > > Parents should read the following article from the most recent

> edition

> > > of Simply Vegan concerning reliable sources of Vitamin B12.

> Seaweed is

> > > not a reliable resource. See:

> > > http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm

> > >

> > > Debra

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Reed, thanks for all of the great info. I found out some things that

I didn't know. My Dr. said it was difficult to test for intrinsic

factor, but according to your info, I

definitely have this problem if I have/had pernicious anemia. Very

interesting... I don't know if anyone else in my family has this

problem. I can't figure out why I have it,

though, since I've always been so healthy and generally I come from

healthy stock I think I have to accept the fact that I'm not

perfect I don't think most

people are routinely tested for this, am I correct? It really sounds

like they should be. It might be more common than we think.

 

I do hear about lots of people getting b-12 shots. I know that they

help increase energy and such, but I wonder why, if the percentage is

2%, as you say. I guess it's because

of case (a), lack of stomach acid. This sounds very common. It sounds

like all older people should be taking a supplement just to be sure!

 

Anyway, thanks again Reed. I really appreciate your taking the time

to explain this to us. I had read much on the subject, but you really

explained it clearly!

 

Tracy

 

On May 22, 2007, at 8:06 AM, reed mangels wrote:

 

> This may be more than most people want to know but I am posting it

> to help explain a bit about vitamin B12.

> The absorption of most vitamins is a pretty simple process. Vitamin

> B12 absorption is more complicated and involves the following:

> If you eat animal foods that contains vitamin B12, stomach acid is

> needed to separate vitamin B12 from the protein in the animal food.

> If your vitamin B12 comes from a supplement or a fortified food,

> this separation from protein step is not necessary.

> Next, in your stomach, the vitamin B12 binds with a special protein

> called R protein.

> In the small intestines, the R protein is removed and vitamin B12

> is bound to intrinsic factor. Intrinsic factor is a substance that

> is produced in the stomach and moves into the small intestine where

> it hooks onto vitamin B12.

> The vitamin B12-intrinsic factor is absorbed towards the end of the

> small intestine in an area called the ileum.

> If anything goes wrong with any step of this process, vitamin B12

> is not absorbed. What can go wrong? Many things. Here are a few:

> a.. You don't produce much stomach acid. This is a condition that

> is called atrophic gastritis and that occurs as we get older. Since

> stomach acid is only important for those relying on animal foods as

> a vitamin B12 source, recommendations for those age 51 and older

> call for using vitamin B12-fortified foods or a vitamin B12

> supplement as the main source of vitamin B12.

> b.. Your body does not produce R protein or intrinsic factor. Loss

> of intrinsic factor appears to run in families and to be more

> common as people get older (cases have been reported in those as

> young as 30 although the average age at diagnosis is 60). Risk

> factors include a family history of pernicious anemia, Scandinavian

> or Northern European descent, and a history of autoimmune endocrine

> disorders like type 1 diabetes, Addison's disease, and chronic

> thyroiditis . There is no evidence that vegans lose intrinsic

> factor and as Tracy points out, pernicious anemia occurs in both

> vegans and non-vegans. It is the most common cause of vitamin B12

> deficiency in non-elderly non-vegetarians. A diagnosis of

> pernicious anemia is due to the loss of intrinsic factor, not to a

> dietary vitamin B12 deficiency. As many of 2% of people age 60 and

> older have pernicious anemia; it is less common in younger people.

> c.. Your stomach or ileum have to be surgically removed

> So, it is important for vegans to have a regular, reliable source

> of vitamin B12. If you are concerned that you are not absorbing

> vitamin B12 because of a lack of intrinsic factor or are concerned

> about your vitamin B12 status in general, discuss options for

> testing vitamin B12 status with your health care provider.

> Reed

>

> Re: Reliable sources of B12 -- Vegans please read

> Posted by: " Tracy Childs " tracychilds tracychildz

> Mon May 21, 2007 6:52 pm (PST)

> Hi there,

>

> I just want to add to this. I am a long-time vegan (16 years)/

> vegetarian (30 years). I recently had a blood test which found that I

> had the beginnings of pernicious anemia (B-12

> deficiency). I had always kept up-to-date on forms of B-12 and vegan

> nutrition and taken B vitamins and used nutritional yeast at least

> once per week. I had taken a sublingual (under the tongue) over the

> years but not regularly. Apparently I was not absorbing the B-12

> through my diet. I wonder why, because I'm a very healthy person.

> Rarely sick, and good digestion. I have a very good diet (everyone

> thinks I'm a " health freak " ). I started taking a sublingual, high

> dose, every day and also got occasional B-12 shots. I've been

> retested and I am back to normal after around 6 months. I never had

> any obvious symptoms and had normal/good energy.

>

> Bottom line: From my experience, if you are a long time vegan, get

> yourself tested (blood) once in a while. Also, take a sublingual once

> a week to be safe (by passes the gastric system just in case you

> don't have the intrinsic factor in your gut needed to absorb B-12).

> Some forms are absorbed better than others (methylcobalamin -- the

> other is cyanocobalamin). I'm wondering if vegans, after many years,

> lose the intrinsic factor? I have read that a lot of people (non

> vegans as well) start to lose it as they age and should take a

> sublingual. I'm only 46, though! I'm just glad that I went to a

> naturopathic doctor who recommended testing.

>

> Debra, I think these matters should be addressed in the article. What

> do you think? I have no idea how common my problem is, but the

> standard advice didn't work for me.

>

>