Guest guest Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Good morning, Erika, and welcome to Vegetarian Slimming! Well what a good start you have made - two weeks is a good trial of vegetarianism and it is a big step for you have taken. Not so difficult, was it? People ask _how_ to become vegetarian, and of course the answer is easy: stop eating meat (Of course, it helps is they've been living off something in addition to dead animal flesh before they try to make the transition, or they'll end up looking at one soggy onion ring on their plates Fruits and veggies and lots of them is the right way to go! You don't say if you are trying to lose weight, but you will find lots of slimming recipes (and this is a low-fat group) in our Files. Read the files that were sent to you on joining, and you'll have a good idea what our group is about! We're a chatty lot, so by all means ask anything you need to know - including how to persuade your children (by example and good meals offered) to a healthier way of eating! Best, Pat (Co-owner of group with Cindi) ---- BeanVegan Food Blog: http://beanvegan.blogspot.com Raw Vegan: http://www.care2.com/c2crAw_vEgAn Vegetarian Spice: Vegan World Cuisine: http://www.care2.com/c2cvegworld Vegetarian Slimming: vegetarianslimming Vegetarians In Canada: vegetariansincanada How Far Would You Go For . . .: http://www.care2.comlocallife Fruitarian: http://www.care2.comfruitarian Antispeciesism: http://www.care2.comantispecisism " Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called medical research. " (George Bernard Shaw) ______________________________\ ____ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals./tc/blockbuster/text5.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Thanks for the welcome, and no it was not difficult at all to stop eating meat. I feel great and I am working on losing 80 pounds. Having three children, the baby weight just doesnt want to come off. I have my good days and bad. I love everyones recipes and can't wait to try them. My sister in law also doesnt eat meat (three months for her). My kids still do eat meat, they have tried tofu and have no problem with it, and thats great, I am trying out meals for them that have little or no meat in them. My mother is kindove worried that if they stop eating meat or little of they will get sick. Any ways I am glad that I found this group, well off to bed for me. Take care everyone Erika **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15 & ncid=aolhom00030\ 000000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Good luck I myself try to only eat chicken and fish. If gorillas have survived I know I will be ok. Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T ArizonaMommyOf3 Mon, 31 Mar 2008 01:52:39 Re: Hello - Erika Thanks for the welcome, and no it was not difficult at all to stop eating meat. I feel great and I am working on losing 80 pounds. Having three children, the baby weight just doesnt want to come off. I have my good days and bad. I love everyones recipes and can't wait to try them. My sister in law also doesnt eat meat (three months for her). My kids still do eat meat, they have tried tofu and have no problem with it, and thats great, I am trying out meals for them that have little or no meat in them. My mother is kindove worried that if they stop eating meat or little of they will get sick. Any ways I am glad that I found this group, well off to bed for me. Take care everyone Erika **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home. <http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15 & amp;ncid=aolhom0\ 0030000000001> aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15 & ncid=aolhom00030000000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Hi Erika, Like you, I am a Mommy of 3. In my case, I have a 5, 3, and 14 months old. I have about 60 pounds to loose. I am still breastfeeding my baby. This time around, the weight is hardly budging. It will take me an entire week to knock off 1 pound and then in a single day I can easily add it back on. And, more! I've been a couple of weeks without meat and it's no problem at all. My hub thinks I've gone bonkers and is not happy about this change at all. Even though I've assured him that I will cook him a meat dish on the side.... still he's a bit sulky about it. We are going to the UK in July for a wedding and I really want to have lost some of this weight if not all of it. My Mother-in-law is a dear woman who lives in Wales. Even when I was easting meat, I never ate Pork. Didn't agree with me. Everytime we go visit the MIL all she prepares is Pork dishes. Drives me nuts. My kids would all get upset tummys. I told her over the course of 8 years that we don't eat pork and everytime she hears it she acts like it's a big surprise. I can only imagine what her reaction will be when she finds out that I've given up meat all together!! I would LOVE to give up dairy. I've cut back on it tremendously. But, it seems like it's everywhere!! The dairy has been a real challenge. Meat, was easy. Cheers, Ginger , ArizonaMommyOf3 wrote: > > Thanks for the welcome, and no it was not difficult at all to stop eating > meat. I feel great and I am working on losing 80 pounds. Having three children, > the baby weight just doesnt want to come off. I have my good days and bad. I > love everyones recipes and can't wait to try them. My sister in law also > doesnt eat meat (three months for her). My kids still do eat meat, they have > tried tofu and have no problem with it, and thats great, I am trying out meals > for them that have little or no meat in them. My mother is kindove worried that > if they stop eating meat or little of they will get sick. Any ways I am glad > that I found this group, well off to bed for me. Take care everyone > > > > > Erika > > > > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL > Home. > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer? video=15 & ncid=aolhom00030000000001) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Yourchildren should actually become very very healthy when they cut meat and dairy from their diet. My mom thought the same thing about my daughter, 21 months, but it has been wonderful not being I'll in our home. Congrats and best wishes! Cassie " life's a garden, dig it! " Sent from my iPhone On Mar 31, 2008, at 1:52 AM, ArizonaMommyOf3 wrote: Thanks for the welcome, and no it was not difficult at all to stop eating meat. I feel great and I am working on losing 80 pounds. Having three children, the baby weight just doesnt want to come off. I have my good days and bad. I love everyones recipes and can't wait to try them. My sister in law also doesnt eat meat (three months for her). My kids still do eat meat, they have tried tofu and have no problem with it, and thats great, I am trying out meals for them that have little or no meat in them. My mother is kindove worried that if they stop eating meat or little of they will get sick. Any ways I am glad that I found this group, well off to bed for me. Take care everyone Erika **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home. (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15 & ncid=aolhom00030\ 000000001) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 > I am trying out meals > for them [the kids] that have little or no meat in them. Good for you! They'll be the better for it, as you well know > My mother is kindove worried that > if they stop eating meat or little of they > will get sick. Oh mothers always have worries - they come with the stretch marks. But we get over them (sometimes) LOL She'll be fine when she sees how healthy her grandchildren are. Of course, it's not the way she raised you, and that might bother her a bit for a couple of reasons. Hang loose Love and hugs, Pat ---- http://www.care2.com/c2cvegpets (and others listed on http://beanvegan.blogspot.com) " Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called medical research. " (George Bernard Shaw) ______________________________\ ____ Special deal for users & friends - No Cost. Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now http://tc.deals./tc/blockbuster/text3.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Dear ms.phillips The problems discussed by u are numerous 1.Resistance from your husband. It is not an issue, he may agree if you assue him proper health and cooking what he needs. 2. Since you have started vegetarianism there are no issues of ur MIL giving any food.Che children themselves resist if they dont like pork. Or they get to eat eventually, if only to please their granny. 3. Diary is not to be considered a serious " give up " case. We are not depriving anyone by taking the milk. The modern cows give 10 times more mild than can be consumed by the little one. 4. As for fat and increasing weight it is a matter of ur body constitution. Just dont mix slimming with vegetarianism. Other wise you cant explain an elephant or a HIPPO m.s.sastry Ginger <gingerdphillips wrote: Hi Erika, Like you, I am a Mommy of 3. In my case, I have a 5, 3, and 14 months old. I have about 60 pounds to loose. I am still breastfeeding my baby. This time around, the weight is hardly budging. It will take me an entire week to knock off 1 pound and then in a single day I can easily add it back on. And, more! I've been a couple of weeks without meat and it's no problem at all. My hub thinks I've gone bonkers and is not happy about this change at all. Even though I've assured him that I will cook him a meat dish on the side.... still he's a bit sulky about it. We are going to the UK in July for a wedding and I really want to have lost some of this weight if not all of it. My Mother-in-law is a dear woman who lives in Wales. Even when I was easting meat, I never ate Pork. Didn't agree with me. Everytime we go visit the MIL all she prepares is Pork dishes. Drives me nuts. My kids would all get upset tummys. I told her over the course of 8 years that we don't eat pork and everytime she hears it she acts like it's a big surprise. I can only imagine what her reaction will be when she finds out that I've given up meat all together!! I would LOVE to give up dairy. I've cut back on it tremendously. But, it seems like it's everywhere!! The dairy has been a real challenge. Meat, was easy. Cheers, Ginger , ArizonaMommyOf3 wrote: > > Thanks for the welcome, and no it was not difficult at all to stop eating > meat. I feel great and I am working on losing 80 pounds. Having three children, > the baby weight just doesnt want to come off. I have my good days and bad. I > love everyones recipes and can't wait to try them. My sister in law also > doesnt eat meat (three months for her). My kids still do eat meat, they have > tried tofu and have no problem with it, and thats great, I am trying out meals > for them that have little or no meat in them. My mother is kindove worried that > if they stop eating meat or little of they will get sick. Any ways I am glad > that I found this group, well off to bed for me. Take care everyone > > > > > Erika > > > > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL > Home. > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer? video=15 & ncid=aolhom00030000000001) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 With all respect to your views, Shankar Sastry, I can't quite agree with all you have advised another member. I'm going to take two of your points in reverse order You say: > As for fat and increasing weight it is a matter of ur body constitution. Just dont mix slimming with vegetarianism. Other wise you cant explain an elephant or a HIPPO Perhaps so, but what one eats DOES make a difference, as does exercise. You can't sit around and eat chocolates all day (lovely thought, though!). Sad but true. I do agree wholeheartedly, however, that a vegetarian diet does get confused in some minds with a slimming diet and it should not. If vegetarianism meant slimness, we wouldn't need this group LOL (I can't speak for the elephant or the hippo - that's cute!! ) You also advise: > 3. Diary is not to be considered a serious " give up " case. We are not depriving anyone by taking the milk. The modern cows give 10 times more mild than can be consumed by the little one. This is an ovo-lacto group so we don't suggest that anyone must give up dairy - although we do suggest that low-fat versions of dairy products be used and used in moderation for both health and for slimming. This is, after all, a low-fat group However, some members have expressed a wish to give up dairy and that should be respected and supported, not discouraged. We try to do that too. As for the ethical reasons for giving up dairy products, that is a matter of personal choice, but it is not a simply a matter of the amount of milk each cow gives. There is no way that, in North America at least, anyone can suggest that dairy farming is humane. Things are so very different from the ideal here! Thank you for 'listening' to me about all this. I enjoy your posts! Best as always, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 > Good luck I myself try to only eat chicken and fish. If gorillas have survived I know I will be ok. Hmm. Gorillas, eh? Love gorillas! But hey, gorillas are herbivores. See this for a quick refresher: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla They're big and tough and do just fine without ch*cken and f*sh. As for ch*cken and f*sh as it applies to this group, neither is vegetarian. I know this can be confusing because some people call themselves vegetarian when they eat these animals, but vegetarians don't eat any me*t (and 'me*t' to vegetarians includes ALL animal flesh, whether the animal swims, flies, walks, crawls, slithers or hops). Perhaps you could introduce yourself to the group? All best wishes, Pat (co-owner of group with Cindi) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Sorry, but to say that we aren¹t depriving anyone by taking the cow¹s milk because she can produce more than the calf needs isn¹t really the truth because in factory farming her calf isn¹t getting the milk. The cow is repeatedly impregnated simply so we can take the milk, and the resulting calf eventually endures the same treatment (if female) or becomes veal (if male). Also, the reason they can give so much more milk than they need to is we inject them with drugs and hormones and whatever else is necessary to ensure they produce enough. When they stop producing enough, they become hamburger. So I¹m afraid there is still death involved in dairy. I realize lots of vegetarians still consume dairy, and that¹s your prerogative, I¹m not judging anyone by any means. I just disagreed with the statement made. Anna On 1/4/08 3:25 PM, " sankar sastry " wrote: > > 3. Diary is not to be considered a serious " give up " case. We are not > depriving anyone by taking the milk. The modern cows give 10 times more mild > than can be consumed by the little one. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 dear ana. have i hurt you? sorry if i have i am aware of what u told. Such practises will continue till the last beef eater is available. I was trying to moderate the issue not disagree with you. If I wanted to disagree I could have brought the issue of the garden plants having life and emotions and the Sir C.V. Raman who has got the nobel prize proved plants have life. Now a days in India they play music in grape gardens to get better yield. Inducement of growth for commercial reasons is always there. Please accept my apologies if i offended you. NO emotions please in the fora. thanks and regards m.s.sastry Coop <rodstruelove wrote: Sorry, but to say that we aren¹t depriving anyone by taking the cow¹s milk because she can produce more than the calf needs isn¹t really the truth because in factory farming her calf isn¹t getting the milk. The cow is repeatedly impregnated simply so we can take the milk, and the resulting calf eventually endures the same treatment (if female) or becomes veal (if male). Also, the reason they can give so much more milk than they need to is we inject them with drugs and hormones and whatever else is necessary to ensure they produce enough. When they stop producing enough, they become hamburger. So I¹m afraid there is still death involved in dairy. I realize lots of vegetarians still consume dairy, and that¹s your prerogative, I¹m not judging anyone by any means. I just disagreed with the statement made. Anna On 1/4/08 3:25 PM, " sankar sastry " wrote: > > 3. Diary is not to be considered a serious " give up " case. We are not > depriving anyone by taking the milk. The modern cows give 10 times more mild > than can be consumed by the little one. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Thanks, Anna You are quite right in what you say about dairy farming. And of course people then say 'buy organic'. But even on organic dairy farms (admittedly, there may be a few exceptions, although I can't name one) the females are kept and the male calves sold - and then the milk cows are sold (for slaughter - for be*f) when they become unproductive. Whether or not all use milking machines (very painful unless one is very very careful ALL the time) is another matter. There are so many aspects of this industry that I find 'distasteful' (like that word?) in the extreme. It's no life for a fellow creature. Special hugs and love, Pat (who is also vegan) --- Coop <rodstruelove wrote: > Sorry, but to say that we aren¹t depriving > anyone by taking the cow¹s milk > because she can produce more than the calf > needs isn¹t really the truth > because in factory farming her calf isn¹t > getting the milk. The cow is > repeatedly impregnated simply so we can take > the milk, and the resulting > calf eventually endures the same treatment (if > female) or becomes veal (if > male). Also, the reason they can give so much > more milk than they need to > is we inject them with drugs and hormones and > whatever else is necessary to > ensure they produce enough. When they stop > producing enough, they become > hamburger. So I¹m afraid there is still death > involved in dairy. > > I realize lots of vegetarians still consume > dairy, and that¹s your > prerogative, I¹m not judging anyone by any > means. I just disagreed with the > statement made. > > Anna > > > On 1/4/08 3:25 PM, " sankar sastry " wrote: > > > > 3. Diary is not to be considered a serious > " give up " case. We are not > > depriving anyone by taking the milk. The > modern cows give 10 times more mild > > than can be consumed by the little one. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Hi Sastry, I guess I should clarify a couple of points.... What started me down this path was finding out about the hormones and antibiotics given to the animals. I, personally, don't want those passed on to me. After further research, I was shocked to find out about factory farming and the " for profit industry " . I had a very naive view of a barnyard. Then, once I started really thinking about what I was eating, the decision became clear to me. I read the book " Skinny Bitch " and I think it opened my eyes. Once I started looking into eating this way, I came across a couple of books by Dean Ornish, John McDougall, and Joel Fuhrman (haven't read his yet). I have been doing my best to follow the McDougall plan and relying on starches (although last night I made a mediterranean veggie stew with tofu in it and we had to dump it because it was not nice!). I have had 3 children in 5 years and have had a lot of additional stress (hubby lost job when baby was 3 weeks old....moved cross country without a company relo with 3 little ones, etc.) and the toll it has taken on my body has been tremendous. I have gained a lot of additional weight. Even eating the way I was eating and cutting out the meat, will mean a cut in calories. However, I am not eating the way I was. It's not been long enough to tell yet. Plus, I am sick at the moment. Also, regarding the dairy....according to my research, the allergies that I suffer from can be related to the dairy in my diet. According to the fine doctors above, cutting the dairy out will improve my seasonal allergies if not get rid of them altogether! Also, since moving to the east coast, I seem to have developed a berry allergy. I break out in hives when I consume blueberries or cranberries. Hoping to find some sort of help with that through diet. But, I digress.... Ideally, I would like to be vegan. No meat and no eggs and no dairy. Simply, because I think that would be healthiest for me. My constitution is a 5'8.5 " medium boned woman who has a diva inside her dying to get out!! I should weigh about 160 pounds. I weigh about 225 right now. Too heavy. I joined this group in hopes to getting help and support on my journey to 160. For me, it's more about my health and less about the cause. Thanks so much, Ginger , sankar sastry <shankarsastry wrote: > > Dear ms.phillips > > The problems discussed by u are numerous > 1.Resistance from your husband. It is not an issue, he may agree if you assue > him proper health and cooking what he needs. > > 2. Since you have started vegetarianism there are no issues of ur MIL giving any food.Che children themselves resist if they dont like pork. Or they get to eat eventually, if only to please their granny. > > 3. Diary is not to be considered a serious " give up " case. We are not depriving anyone by taking the milk. The modern cows give 10 times more mild than can be consumed by the little one. > > 4. As for fat and increasing weight it is a matter of ur body constitution. Just dont mix slimming with vegetarianism. Other wise you cant explain an elephant or a HIPPO > m.s.sastry > > > Ginger <gingerdphillips wrote: > Hi Erika, > > Like you, I am a Mommy of 3. In my case, I have a 5, 3, and 14 > months old. I have about 60 pounds to loose. I am still > breastfeeding my baby. This time around, the weight is hardly > budging. It will take me an entire week to knock off 1 pound and > then in a single day I can easily add it back on. And, more! > > I've been a couple of weeks without meat and it's no problem at all. > My hub thinks I've gone bonkers and is not happy about this change at > all. Even though I've assured him that I will cook him a meat dish > on the side.... still he's a bit sulky about it. > > We are going to the UK in July for a wedding and I really want to > have lost some of this weight if not all of it. > > My Mother-in-law is a dear woman who lives in Wales. Even when I was > easting meat, I never ate Pork. Didn't agree with me. Everytime we > go visit the MIL all she prepares is Pork dishes. Drives me nuts. > My kids would all get upset tummys. I told her over the course of 8 > years that we don't eat pork and everytime she hears it she acts like > it's a big surprise. I can only imagine what her reaction will be > when she finds out that I've given up meat all together!! > > I would LOVE to give up dairy. I've cut back on it tremendously. > But, it seems like it's everywhere!! The dairy has been a real > challenge. Meat, was easy. > > Cheers, > Ginger > > , ArizonaMommyOf3@ wrote: > > > > Thanks for the welcome, and no it was not difficult at all to stop > eating > > meat. I feel great and I am working on losing 80 pounds. Having > three children, > > the baby weight just doesnt want to come off. I have my good days > and bad. I > > love everyones recipes and can't wait to try them. My sister in law > also > > doesnt eat meat (three months for her). My kids still do eat meat, > they have > > tried tofu and have no problem with it, and thats great, I am > trying out meals > > for them that have little or no meat in them. My mother is kindove > worried that > > if they stop eating meat or little of they will get sick. Any ways > I am glad > > that I found this group, well off to bed for me. Take care > everyone > > > > > > > > > > Erika > > > > > > > > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video > on AOL > > Home. > > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer? > video=15 & ncid=aolhom00030000000001) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Forgot to mention.... For exercise, I walk/elliptical and do an hour of pilates at least twice a week (sometimes more). I know that I need to increase this. G , " Pat " <drpatsant wrote: > > With all respect to your views, Shankar Sastry, I can't quite agree with all you have advised > another member. > > I'm going to take two of your points in reverse order You say: > > > As for fat and increasing weight it is a matter of ur body constitution. Just dont mix > slimming with vegetarianism. Other wise you cant explain an elephant or a HIPPO > > Perhaps so, but what one eats DOES make a difference, as does exercise. You can't sit > around and eat chocolates all day (lovely thought, though!). Sad but true. I do agree > wholeheartedly, however, that a vegetarian diet does get confused in some minds with a > slimming diet and it should not. If vegetarianism meant slimness, we wouldn't need this > group LOL (I can't speak for the elephant or the hippo - that's cute!! ) > > You also advise: > > > 3. Diary is not to be considered a serious " give up " case. We are not depriving anyone > by taking the milk. The modern cows give 10 times more mild than can be consumed by > the little one. > > This is an ovo-lacto group so we don't suggest that anyone must give up dairy - although > we do suggest that low-fat versions of dairy products be used and used in moderation for > both health and for slimming. This is, after all, a low-fat group However, some members > have expressed a wish to give up dairy and that should be respected and supported, not > discouraged. We try to do that too. > > As for the ethical reasons for giving up dairy products, that is a matter of personal choice, > but it is not a simply a matter of the amount of milk each cow gives. There is no way that, > in North America at least, anyone can suggest that dairy farming is humane. Things are so > very different from the ideal here! > > Thank you for 'listening' to me about all this. I enjoy your posts! > > Best as always, Pat > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Sankar Sastry writes: > Such practises will continue till the last > beef eater is available. True - because they have to slaughter the male calves and that would be unproductive unless there was a market. However, we vegetarians (of whatever kind) don't eat any kind of me*t of any living creature, and that is a start > I was trying to moderate the issue not > disagree with you. Yes, I can see that you were not particularly disagreeing with her. But you were giving an argument for consuming dairy products, which she is not happy to do. *shrug* You of course will follow your own conscience in these matters - we all have to do that - but we do try not to offend others by suggesting foods which are against their lifestyle, don't we. It's all very tricky when there are different kinds of vegetarians all on one group but we do our best here to support each one's decision - within the given aims of the group: vegetarian health and slimming. You mention: > If I wanted to disagree I could have brought > the issue of the garden plants having life and > emotions Of course they have life They could not grow otherwise. But they don't have a central nervous system and they cannot therefore experience pain. However, if you are truly worried about that, you can do what some friends of mine have done: You could become a fruitarian. That way only the fruit of the plant, which drops from the plant naturally and the loss of which cannot harm the plant itself, is eaten. It is an extreme form of veganism, but it exists and is followed by many. > and the Sir C.V. Raman who has got the > nobel prize proved plants have life. The Nobel Prize was awarded to him for his work on LIGHT. Anyway, you have given us an interesting topic for discussion here For example, would we turn to the milk and milk products of other species than cows (sheep and goats are already used for such purposes and also the buffalo) if be*f were no longer 'produced'??? Why those options, then, rather than relying on plant products? Etc. etc. etc. Love and hugs, Pat (also a vegan btw) ---- http://www.care2.com/c2cvegpets (and others listed on http://beanvegan.blogspot.com) " Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called medical research. " (George Bernard Shaw) ______________________________\ ____ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals./tc/blockbuster/text5.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 No, darling, no offense taken at all. I just felt differently than you about on issue, and that¹s OK. Anna On 3/4/08 9:47 PM, " sankar sastry " <shankarsastry wrote: > dear ana. > have i hurt you? > sorry if i have > i am aware of what u told. > Such practises will continue till the last beef eater is available. > I was trying to moderate the issue not disagree with you. > If I wanted to disagree I could have brought the issue of the garden plants > having life and emotions and the Sir C.V. Raman who has got the nobel prize > proved plants have life. Now a days in India they play music in grape gardens > to get better yield. > Inducement of growth for commercial reasons is always there. > Please accept my apologies if i offended you. NO emotions please in the fora. > thanks and regards > m.s.sastry > > Coop <rodstruelove <rodstruelove%40dodo.com.au> > wrote: > Sorry, but to say that we aren¹t depriving anyone by taking the cow¹s milk > because she can produce more than the calf needs isn¹t really the truth > because in factory farming her calf isn¹t getting the milk. The cow is > repeatedly impregnated simply so we can take the milk, and the resulting > calf eventually endures the same treatment (if female) or becomes veal (if > male). Also, the reason they can give so much more milk than they need to > is we inject them with drugs and hormones and whatever else is necessary to > ensure they produce enough. When they stop producing enough, they become > hamburger. So I¹m afraid there is still death involved in dairy. > > I realize lots of vegetarians still consume dairy, and that¹s your > prerogative, I¹m not judging anyone by any means. I just disagreed with the > statement made. > > Anna > > On 1/4/08 3:25 PM, " sankar sastry " wrote: >> > >> > 3. Diary is not to be considered a serious " give up " case. We are not >> > depriving anyone by taking the milk. The modern cows give 10 times more >> mild >> > than can be consumed by the little one. >> > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Ginger wrote: > For exercise, I walk/elliptical and do an hour > of pilates at least > twice a week (sometimes more). I know that I > need to increase this. Good for you. Well, I have found that I feel better if I exercise daily, but again YMMD - although health professionals and the like often say that three times a week is enough for cardio-vascular health. What I find is that not only do I feel better physically but also more mentally alert when I exercise daily. So I do LOL (Need all the help I can get, eh!) Love and hugs, Pat ---- http://www.care2.com/c2cvegpets (and others listed on http://beanvegan.blogspot.com) " Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called medical research. " (George Bernard Shaw) ______________________________\ ____ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals./tc/blockbuster/text5.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 On dairy, yes these things are distressing, I am bothered. I don't know about non dairy cheeses. I am concerned for the welfare of these animals, but I makes me wonder-what about the human beings in 3 world counties who are living in far worse conditions than dairy cattle in the US? Just opened a can o worms I'm sure, but when I think of " humane " practices, should we not be as concerned with the welfare of our own species? BTW, Hi Erika, I live in Mesa, AZ, welcome! I'm new too, will probably get a talkin to over my above commentary, but its my conscience speaking. Pat <drpatsant wrote: Thanks, Anna You are quite right in what you say about dairy farming. And of course people then say 'buy organic'. But even on organic dairy farms (admittedly, there may be a few exceptions, although I can't name one) the females are kept and the male calves sold - and then the milk cows are sold (for slaughter - for be*f) when they become unproductive. Whether or not all use milking machines (very painful unless one is very very careful ALL the time) is another matter. There are so many aspects of this industry that I find 'distasteful' (like that word?) in the extreme. It's no life for a fellow creature. Special hugs and love, Pat (who is also vegan) --- Coop <rodstruelove wrote: > Sorry, but to say that we aren¹t depriving > anyone by taking the cow¹s milk > because she can produce more than the calf > needs isn¹t really the truth > because in factory farming her calf isn¹t > getting the milk. The cow is > repeatedly impregnated simply so we can take > the milk, and the resulting > calf eventually endures the same treatment (if > female) or becomes veal (if > male). Also, the reason they can give so much > more milk than they need to > is we inject them with drugs and hormones and > whatever else is necessary to > ensure they produce enough. When they stop > producing enough, they become > hamburger. So I¹m afraid there is still death > involved in dairy. > > I realize lots of vegetarians still consume > dairy, and that¹s your > prerogative, I¹m not judging anyone by any > means. I just disagreed with the > statement made. > > Anna > > > On 1/4/08 3:25 PM, " sankar sastry " wrote: > > > > 3. Diary is not to be considered a serious > " give up " case. We are not > > depriving anyone by taking the milk. The > modern cows give 10 times more mild > > than can be consumed by the little one. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > --- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Well, I for one am concerned about what dairy is doing to my health and the health of others (i.e. Children) in America (as a result of those antibiotics and bovine growth hormone that the FDA has now allowed the dairy industry to NOT mark on the product). As an allergy sufferer I am hoping that nixing the dairy will have a positive effect. Btw, which 3 world countries are you talking about? G , Daphne Barton <daphnebarton wrote: > > On dairy, yes these things are distressing, I am bothered. I don't know about non dairy cheeses. I am concerned for the welfare of these animals, but I makes me wonder-what about the human beings in 3 world counties who are living in far worse conditions than dairy cattle in the US? Just opened a can o worms I'm sure, but when I think of " humane " practices, should we not be as concerned with the welfare of our own species? > > BTW, Hi Erika, I live in Mesa, AZ, welcome! I'm new too, will probably get a talkin to over my above commentary, but its my conscience speaking. > > Pat <drpatsant wrote: > Thanks, Anna > > You are quite right in what you say about dairy > farming. And of course people then say 'buy > organic'. But even on organic dairy farms > (admittedly, there may be a few exceptions, > although I can't name one) the females are kept > and the male calves sold - and then the milk cows > are sold (for slaughter - for be*f) when they > become unproductive. Whether or not all use > milking machines (very painful unless one is very > very careful ALL the time) is another matter. > There are so many aspects of this industry that I > find 'distasteful' (like that word?) in the > extreme. It's no life for a fellow creature. > > Special hugs and love, Pat (who is also vegan) > > --- Coop <rodstruelove wrote: > > > Sorry, but to say that we aren¹t depriving > > anyone by taking the cow¹s milk > > because she can produce more than the calf > > needs isn¹t really the truth > > because in factory farming her calf isn¹t > > getting the milk. The cow is > > repeatedly impregnated simply so we can take > > the milk, and the resulting > > calf eventually endures the same treatment (if > > female) or becomes veal (if > > male). Also, the reason they can give so much > > more milk than they need to > > is we inject them with drugs and hormones and > > whatever else is necessary to > > ensure they produce enough. When they stop > > producing enough, they become > > hamburger. So I¹m afraid there is still death > > involved in dairy. > > > > I realize lots of vegetarians still consume > > dairy, and that¹s your > > prerogative, I¹m not judging anyone by any > > means. I just disagreed with the > > statement made. > > > > Anna > > > > > > On 1/4/08 3:25 PM, " sankar sastry " wrote: > > > > > > 3. Diary is not to be considered a serious > > " give up " case. We are not > > > depriving anyone by taking the milk. The > > modern cows give 10 times more mild > > > than can be consumed by the little one. > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > --- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 I assume she just meant " third world " countries. Pam On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Ginger <gingerdphillips wrote: Well, I for one am concerned about what dairy is doing to my health > and the health of others (i.e. Children) in America (as a result of > those antibiotics and bovine growth hormone that the FDA has now > allowed the dairy industry to NOT mark on the product). As an > allergy sufferer I am hoping that nixing the dairy will have a > positive effect. > > Btw, which 3 world countries are you talking about? > > G > > , Daphne Barton > <daphnebarton wrote: > > > > On dairy, yes these things are distressing, I am bothered. I don't > know about non dairy cheeses. I am concerned for the welfare of these > animals, but I makes me wonder-what about the human beings in 3 world > counties who are living in far worse conditions than dairy cattle in > the US? Just opened a can o worms I'm sure, but when I think > of " humane " practices, should we not be as concerned with the welfare > of our own species? [excessive quotes deleted by moderator] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Oh right. The words of Homer Simpson apply right now, " DOH! " yes. 3rd world countries. G , pdw <pdworkman wrote: > > I assume she just meant " third world " countries. > > Pam > > On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 12:38 PM, Ginger <gingerdphillips wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I for one am concerned about what dairy is doing to my health > > and the health of others (i.e. Children) in America (as a result of > > those antibiotics and bovine growth hormone that the FDA has now > > allowed the dairy industry to NOT mark on the product). As an > > allergy sufferer I am hoping that nixing the dairy will have a > > positive effect. > > > > Btw, which 3 world countries are you talking about? > > > > G > > > > , Daphne Barton > > <daphnebarton@> wrote: > > > > > > On dairy, yes these things are distressing, I am bothered. I don't > > know about non dairy cheeses. I am concerned for the welfare of these > > animals, but I makes me wonder-what about the human beings in 3 world > > counties who are living in far worse conditions than dairy cattle in > > the US? Just opened a can o worms I'm sure, but when I think > > of " humane " practices, should we not be as concerned with the welfare > > of our own species? > > [excessive quotes deleted by moderator] > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 > when I think of " humane " practices, should we not be as concerned with the welfare of our own species? Why not both, together, simultaneously? No problem Love and hugs, Pat ---- http://www.care2.com/c2cvegpets (and others listed on http://beanvegan.blogspot.com) " Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called medical research. " (George Bernard Shaw) ______________________________\ ____ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals./tc/blockbuster/text5.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Good point Pat. I really don't think that anyone is less concerned about 3rd world countries. I can say that I read something written by Sir Paul McCartney that said we would end world hunger by everyone going vegetarian. He based it on the amount of grain that is fed to the animals could be fed to humans. I'm not quoting exactly but you get the jest. I personally feel very good about going veggie. The things I have read about going veggie helping the environment makes me feel good about steering (get it!) clear of meat. The amount of waste that the factory farms accumulate is staggering. Cheers, Ginger , Pat <drpatsant wrote: > > > when I think of " humane " practices, should we > not be as concerned with the welfare of our own > species? > > Why not both, together, simultaneously? No > problem > > Love and hugs, Pat > > ---- > http://www.care2.com/c2cvegpets (and others listed on http://beanvegan.blogspot.com) > " Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called medical research. " (George Bernard Shaw) > > > ____________________ ______________ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. > http://tc.deals./tc/blockbuster/text5.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2008 Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 > I read something > written by Sir Paul > McCartney that said we would end world hunger > by everyone going > vegetarian. He based it on the amount of grain > that is fed to the > animals could be fed to humans. Yes, I don't have the statistics at my fingertips (someone else may), but it takes many times more grain to feed animals for sale as food than it does to feed humans grain and other plants directly. World hunger is another good reason for giving up animal flesh. Love and hugs, Pat ---- http://www.care2.com/c2cvegpets (and others listed on http://beanvegan.blogspot.com) " Atrocities are not less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called medical research. " (George Bernard Shaw) ______________________________\ ____ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals./tc/blockbuster/text5.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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