Jesus Died For His Own Sins

[Guest guest]

I object to the notion that we all have original sin Even a new born baby I could never accept that idea

 

 

Heartwork [Heartwork] 21 August 2002 20:41 Subject: Jesus died for his own sins

Lesley

 

Why should someone not say what they think about Jesus. If you are Christian you think he died for your sins - if you are not Christian you don't. Free speech etc.

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I can't understand why people object to her looks . She's ok There are men who are a lot more wrinkled with big noses and some are bald !

 

 

rzanuk [rzanuk] 21 August 2002 23:59 Subject: Re: Jesus Died For His Own Sinshi jo,i can believe anthing of a woman who thinks womem prisoners should give birth in leg irons - so christian.i have to give her grudging respect for the way she's handled all the bitching about her looks though. it's enough to make anybody go blonde. rosanne> They are only just letting women become priests. Can you believe Anne> Widdecombe becoming catholic because of that - and she is a member of> parliament!> > Jo> To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

The media seem to like making fun of her Could it be because she is anti hunting

I'm replying to see if this gets thro' Some of my replies have not

A

 

 

 

 

Does she really believe that or is that just the media?

 

Lesley

 

 

hi jo,i can believe anthing of a woman who thinks womem prisoners should give birth in leg irons - so christian.i have to give her grudging respect for the way she's handled all the bitching about her looks though. it's enough to make anybody go blonde.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Not as good as Tony Benn.

 

I cannot understand how a woman can be against women being anything, other than exploited or abused.

 

Jo

 

 

But she was already Christian, so maybe she was already quite in tune with catholicism except for the women priests issue.

 

And although she is an animal eater, she is still one of the better MPs as she is anti-hunting.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

She was the minister who insisted that the woman prisoner was to remain in cuffs and chained to the bed while having her baby. The woman was not a violent person. I wonder if Anne Widdecombe has ever had a baby.

 

Jo

 

 

 

Does she really believe that or is that just the media?

 

Lesley

 

 

rzanuk [rzanuk]21 August 2002 23:59 Subject: Re: Jesus Died For His Own Sinshi jo,i can believe anthing of a woman who thinks womem prisoners should give birth in leg irons - so christian.i have to give her grudging respect for the way she's handled all the bitching about her looks though. it's enough to make anybody go blonde. rosanne> They are only just letting women become priests. Can you believe Anne> Widdecombe becoming catholic because of that - and she is a member of> parliament!> > Jo> To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

I would agree that she is not as good as Tony Benn (or Tony Banks), sorry I misunderstood from someone else's message who was for and who was against women priests, I agree with you that women should be allowed into the priesthood.

 

Lesley

 

 

Peter [snowbow]22 August 2002 16:11 Subject: Re: Jesus Died For His Own Sins

Not as good as Tony Benn.

 

I cannot understand how a woman can be against women being anything, other than exploited or abused.

 

Jo

 

 

But she was already Christian, so maybe she was already quite in tune with catholicism except for the women priests issue.

 

And although she is an animal eater, she is still one of the better MPs as she is anti-hunting.

 

 

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[Guest guest]

>No she has no kids, and she is also on record as being a virgin celibate, which is something I admire her for >talking about.

 

Maybe she didn't realise how harsh her attitude was then, but she should have listened to what others were saying. There is nothing wrong with being virgin/celibate, and no reason to feel bad about it. Do you remember how they vilified Cliff Richard when he said he was going to be celibate? I also agree that the media shouldn't comment on her looks. She is a minister not a fashion model - she doesn't earn her living on her looks. Blonde hair quite suits her, anyway.

 

Jo

 

These days I think it's probably harder to come out as virgin/celibate than it is to come out as gay!

 

I do find that quite shocking about the attitude she had to the woman prisoner in labour, it's not even as if someone violent would be able to escape when she is having a baby.

Mind you doctors often expect women to give birth in stupid positions, on their backs, even when it is a normal birth and one that could be done in a more natural squatting upright position.

 

I also don't agree with the way Anne Widdecombe has been judged on her looks, how shallow is that?

 

Lesley

 

Heartwork [Heartwork]22 August 2002 16:14 Subject: Re: Re: Jesus Died For His Own Sins

 

She was the minister who insisted that the woman prisoner was to remain in cuffs and chained to the bed while having her baby. The woman was not a violent person. I wonder if Anne Widdecombe has ever had a baby.

 

Jo

 

 

 

Does she really believe that or is that just the media?

 

Lesley

 

 

rzanuk [rzanuk]21 August 2002 23:59 Subject: Re: Jesus Died For His Own Sinshi jo,i can believe anthing of a woman who thinks womem prisoners should give birth in leg irons - so christian.i have to give her grudging respect for the way she's handled all the bitching about her looks though. it's enough to make anybody go blonde. rosanne> They are only just letting women become priests. Can you believe Anne> Widdecombe becoming catholic because of that - and she is a member of> parliament!> > Jo> To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Nor can I, but this is about Jesus the man, and I can respect him while I think there is a load of nonsense built up around him by organised religion since then, I do not like to see him disrespected personally.

 

Lesley

 

 

Angie Wright [angiewright]22 August 2002 00:07 Subject: RE: Jesus died for his own sins

I object to the notion that we all have original sin Even a new born baby I could never accept that idea

 

 

Heartwork [Heartwork] 21 August 2002 20:41 Subject: Jesus died for his own sins

Lesley

 

Why should someone not say what they think about Jesus. If you are Christian you think he died for your sins - if you are not Christian you don't. Free speech etc.

 

To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote:

> Message

> Nor can I, but this is about Jesus the man,

 

So how can I be responsible for the crucifiction of a man who died

2000 years ago?

 

The statement 'Jesus Died For Hias Own Sins, Not Mine' is clearly a

statement about christ the myth, upon which the organised christian

religion is built, not christ the man.

 

and I can respect him while I

> think there is a load of nonsense built up around him by organised

religion

> since then, I do not like to see him disrespected personally.

>

[Guest guest]

Me neither.

 

Jo

 

 

I object to the notion that we all have original sin Even a new born baby I could never accept that idea

 

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[Guest guest]

Being bald doesn't make men look strange though.

 

Jo

 

 

I can't understand why people object to her looks . She's ok There are men who are a lot more wrinkled with big noses and some are bald !

 

 

rzanuk [rzanuk] 21 August 2002 23:59 Subject: Re: Jesus Died For His Own Sinshi jo,i can believe anthing of a woman who thinks womem prisoners should give birth in leg irons - so christian.i have to give her grudging respect for the way she's handled all the bitching about her looks though. it's enough to make anybody go blonde. rosanne> They are only just letting women become priests. Can you believe Anne> Widdecombe becoming catholic because of that - and she is a member of> parliament!> > Jo> To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

It could be that - I'm not sure they think they need a reason though.

 

Jo

 

 

The media seem to like making fun of her Could it be because she is anti hunting

I'm replying to see if this gets thro' Some of my replies have not

 

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[Guest guest]

Agreed re widdicombes looks, its her politics (and naff books) I can't

stand.

 

I thought it was great when the media started bitching about the way Mo

Mowlam had let herself go,and then she announced she had a brain

tumour. Talk about red faces.

 

Anybody know how she is since she dropped out of the limelight?

 

My hero (apart from Benn) is Clare Short. Not sure where she

is on fox hunting (she must be anti) but I like her straight talking

and down to earth image.

She had the same shirt as me, and was still wearing it for telly

interviews when it was about 15 years old. She's stopped wearing it

now but I still got mine! Both got terrible taste. (it was red with big

white spots and long neck ties)

 

When less than pretty woman makes it in the media, especially as a

newsreader, then we'll be getting somewhere.

 

rosanne

 

 

> I can't understand why people object to her looks . She's ok

> There are men who are a lot more wrinkled with big noses and some

are

> bald !

>

> Angie

[Guest guest]

But then nor does Anne Widdecombe (sp?) look strange and yet people ridicule her and say she looks ugly Lots of MP's look ugly . They are not voted in for their looks .I was just trying to make that point

 

 

Heartwork [Heartwork] 22 August 2002 20:15 Subject: Re: Re: Jesus Died For His Own Sins

Being bald doesn't make men look strange though.

 

Jo

 

 

I can't understand why people object to her looks . She's ok There are men who are a lot more wrinkled with big noses and some are bald !

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I agree

fer some it's quite sexy

 

nikki

 

, " Heartwork " <Heartwork@b...> wrote:

> MessageBeing bald doesn't make men look strange though.

>

> Jo

>

>

[Guest guest]

We don't all find it so tho' If people find it sexy you must concede that there will be those who find it a turn off

 

Many people think women are passed it once they get older --lose their young size 12 shape /get wrinkles etc

 

..I've never understood why men are still considered good looking when they age . So to keep it equal I dislike wrinkles and baldness . I always have done and always will

 

 

nikki_mackovitch [nikkimack] 23 August 2002 11:50 Subject: Re: Jesus Died For His Own SinsI agree :)fer some it's quite sexynikki , "Heartwork" <Heartwork@b...> wrote:> MessageBeing bald doesn't make men look strange though.> > Jo> >

 

 

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[Guest guest]

-

" rzanuk " <rzanuk

 

Friday, August 23, 2002 1:30 AM

Re: Jesus Died For His Own Sins

 

 

> Agreed re widdicombes looks, its her politics (and naff books) I can't

> stand.

>

> I thought it was great when the media started bitching about the way Mo

> Mowlam had let herself go,and then she announced she had a brain

> tumour. Talk about red faces.

>

> Anybody know how she is since she dropped out of the limelight?

>

> My hero (apart from Benn) is Clare Short. Not sure where she

> is on fox hunting (she must be anti) but I like her straight talking

> and down to earth image.

> She had the same shirt as me, and was still wearing it for telly

> interviews when it was about 15 years old. She's stopped wearing it

> now but I still got mine! Both got terrible taste. (it was red with big

> white spots and long neck ties)

>

> When less than pretty woman makes it in the media, especially as a

> newsreader, then we'll be getting somewhere.

>

> rosanne

>

>

> > I can't understand why people object to her looks . She's ok

> > There are men who are a lot more wrinkled with big noses and some

> are

> > bald !

> >

> > Angie

>

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

Or we could object to all the ugly men and not get fooled by the media who say older men are attractive They are not in most cases

 

>> When less than pretty woman makes it in the media, especially as a> newsreader, then we'll be getting somewhere.>> rosanne>

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Rosanne

 

> When less than pretty woman makes it in the media, especially as a> newsreader, then we'll be getting somewhere.

I wasn't going to comment, but since all the women on the list are commenting on men in the media, I guess it's only fair to comment on the women.

 

Personally, I can think of numerous women in the media who I believe are generally considered quite ugly.

 

BB

Peter

 

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[Guest guest]

Well said!

 

Jo

 

 

Personally, I can think of numerous women in the media who I believe are generally considered quite ugly.

 

BB

Peter

 

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[Guest guest]

I personally think that attraction is an individual thing. I am not keen on saying 'such and such is ugly' because then it could hurt the feelings of someone who has these attributes. We don't know what everyone listening is like, and I for one wouldn't want to hurt anyones feelings, especially over something as superficial as looks.

 

Jo

 

Or we could object to all the ugly men and not get fooled by the media who say older men are attractive They are not in most cases

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Peter, Who?.

>

> Personally, I can think of numerous women in the media who I

believe are generally considered quite ugly.

>

 

I really can't think of any. I don't mean women who have earned

respect as politicians and get media exposure I mean broadcasters and

commentators. The ones who come to mind are quite attractive, Kate

Adie, Kirsty Walk.

 

Baggy eyes, bear bellies, blubbery or slit mouths mouths seem no

barrier to men broadcasters and commentators but I cannot recall a

single unattractive woman. And we are definitely not all attractive!

 

Even the women who host or appear on programmes because of their

intelligence are usually attractive - Joan Bakewell, Germaine Greer.

Would they have been given the opportunities if they looked like the

back of a bus? I doubt it.

 

Men can still win their place regardless of looks if they have the

right qualifications but the same doesn't apply to women.

 

rosanne

[Guest guest]

I think the way society advances those who are judged attractive is a

serious issue that needs discussing. Looks are superficial but

society does judge on them unfortunately, and reward accordingly.

Brushing it under the carpet doesn't help.

 

> MessageI personally think that attraction is an individual thing.

I am not keen on saying 'such and such is ugly' because then it could

hurt the feelings of someone who has these attributes. We don't know

what everyone listening is like, and I for one wouldn't want to hurt

anyones feelings, especially over something as superficial as looks.

>

> Jo

 

There was a prog on the box about people with distorted faces the

other night. I instantly thought sick freak show and decided not to

watch it but it came on in the background and I saw some of it. It

was a serious thought provking programme and raised many issues about

how even right minded liberals treat such people - ie - me deciding

that it

was a sick freak show and not to watch. It's really sad how extremely

nice people who had the misfortune to be ugly / different had rubbish

jobs, only went out at night, were hurt by people staring etc.

 

My daughter had a really big swollen stawberry mark on her forehead

plus others on her body. It completely dominated her face. Peoples

reactions were really interesting. Adults were embarassed and

wouldn't look at her. Kids were natural and fascinated. Some lovely

women came up to me in the street and told me not to worry and that

it

would improve over the years. Only once that I know of was anybody

horrid and I was more upset than R.was. I expect she had to deal with

some nasties but I think she just thought they weren't worth

bothering

with.

 

Nobody ever took photos of her - they just avoided it - unintentional

and probably well meaning but that did hurt when I looked back and

realised that there were hundreds of pics of my son and very few of

my daughter. Now that was trying not to hurt her feelings but was

really hurtful in far more serious way.

 

People seemed to expect her to be bitter and and embarassed by it but

she wasn't in the slightest. She just told other kids it was her

lucky mark and did they want to poke it cos it felt funny. No doubt

id she had had any well meaning counselling over it she'd have been

completely screwed up over it and it would have ruined her life. She

was offered plastic surgery on a regular basis but didn't want it as

she saw mothing particularly wrong with it. This always seemed to

really throw the health professionals.

 

It has faded and is less obvious but is still there. Nobody sees it,

they just see an confident person with no hang ups over looking a bit

different. And blimey isn't that want the kids try to do! I think

people see all her studs, fantastic long hair and her eyes, not the

birthmarks. Not sure if I could have had her strength of character.

It's not a serious example but if she had fulfilled the expectations

that people wanted to lay on her she'd be in a real state.

 

And one more point, I have psoriasis, I'm not too bothered, I forget

it most of the time but I do cover up, not go swimming etc. When it

gets on to my hands so that people can see it, I actually get shop

assitants shrinking back from taking money but I also get masses of

people saying Oh you've got it too and admitting they have it. It

really helps. Being open and discussing issues normally does help other

people.

 

Best story was when i was giving some local God fearing pillar of the

community a lift and she started on about a girl in the village who

has realy bad hospital case psoriasis and how she'd had a baby out of

wedlock and wasn't is good how God alway punished sinners. I took

ENORMEOUS pleasure in saying " Well I hope you're wrong cos I've got

it too " She went as quiet as a mouse! I've never offered her another

lift.

 

Sorry long winded lecture again.

 

rosanne

[Guest guest]

, " rzanuk " <rzanuk> wrote:

 

God fearing pillar of the

> community a lift and she started on about a girl in the village who

> has realy bad hospital case psoriasis and how she'd had a baby out

of

> wedlock and wasn't is good how God alway punished sinners.

 

Oh Rosanne what a wonderful opportunity missed - accelerate to 50,

lean over, open passenger door and give an almightly shove to

snivelling git, whilst shouting with appropriate glee, " Yes, and

sometimes he works through *ME* "

 

Learn for next time!

 

Cathy

xxx

[Guest guest]

Hi Rosanne

 

> Hi Peter, Who?.

> > Personally, I can think of numerous women in the media who I

> believe are generally considered quite ugly.

 

At the risk of seeming old-fashioned, I really think it's incredibly rude to

state who is generally considered ugly. It's a shame that some of the women

on this list do not seem to behave the same. However, I will name two women

who are very proud of being considered unattractive: Jo Brand and Rosanne

Barr. Other than that, there are plenty who I shall not name.

 

BB

Peter

 

 

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