Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 Considering the way it is so crowded, so they must be raising a fair amount of money, the obvious solution is for the organisers to set aside one room with a few creche workers and a few toys, paper and crayons, so that parents can look around without the kids at the crowded bits that are boring for kids. I think especially for single parents who have no-one else to look after their kids, such a facility would be very helpful and much needed. A few years ago when I was with South London Animal Aid, the group ran a big Cruelty-free Christmas event at Brixton a couple of times and we always laid on a creche, using volunteers from the group on a rota. It was the done thing at the time (twas a couple or three years before I had kids of my own). It used to be the case in the late 80's, even the early 90's, that no-one thought it an unreasonable expectation that such events would include a creche, and then it seemed that at about the time I had my first child, creche provision at such events suddenly went right out of fashion. It seemed to go hand in hand with political correctness and feminism at one time that parents had the right to the equal opportunity to be involved in these events on equal terms with non-parents, and the non-parents quite willingly and happily took turns and laid on creches which were free or very low cost. People helped one another so that parents as well as non-parents got their own free time to relax and browse and buy, unhindered by kids pestering. Nowadays the prevailing attitude has changed, it seems to be, " they're your kids, so no-one else is going to help you get a break, the idea of community is a thing of the past " . Why can't it be the way it was just a few years ago? Lesley " What is this life, if, full of care, We have no time to stand and stare? " Some poet said it, that's how I feel. 12 September 2002 11:51 Digest Number 540 Message: 15 Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:03:24 +0100 " Heartwork " <Heartwork Re: Digest Number 538 Hi Lesley I know that if my children were very young I would prefer to go to the vegan gathering, rather than the Festival. The festival is very crowded, and it is a job to get to see everything, so I would imagine it could be boring for very small children. I am looking forward to the festival, to see what new products there are, and to taste the lovely food, especially the cakes. Jo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 IIRC there was a creche at the last vegan fest? I seem to remember that one of the 'child hating vegans' set it up and spent some time staffing it as well. , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote: > > Considering the way it is so crowded, so they must be raising a fair amount > of money, the obvious solution is for the organisers to set aside one room > with a few creche workers and a few toys, paper and crayons, so that parents > can look around without the kids at the crowded bits that are boring for > kids. I think especially for single parents who have no-one else to look > after their kids, such a facility would be very helpful and much needed. > Why can't it be the way it was just a few years ago? > > Lesley > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 IIRC there was a creche at the last vegan fest? I seem to remember that one of the 'child hating vegans' set it up and spent some time staffing it as well. , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote: > > Considering the way it is so crowded, so they must be raising a fair amount > of money, the obvious solution is for the organisers to set aside one room > with a few creche workers and a few toys, paper and crayons, so that parents > can look around without the kids at the crowded bits that are boring for > kids. I think especially for single parents who have no-one else to look > after their kids, such a facility would be very helpful and much needed. > Why can't it be the way it was just a few years ago? > > Lesley > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 easy graham..down lad... would you like to share some of yer blackberry wine? fraggle " quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett wrote: >IIRC there was a creche at the last vegan fest? I seem to remember >that one of the 'child hating vegans' set it up and spent some time >staffing it as well. > > >, " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote: >> >> Considering the way it is so crowded, so they must be raising a >fair amount >> of money, the obvious solution is for the organisers to set aside >one room >> with a few creche workers and a few toys, paper and crayons, so >that parents >> can look around without the kids at the crowded bits that are >boring for >> kids. I think especially for single parents who have no-one else >to look >> after their kids, such a facility would be very helpful and much >needed. >> Why can't it be the way it was just a few years ago? >> >> Lesley >> > > > > >To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 Hi Lesley A creche sounds like a good idea. There is a Christmas Without Cruelty Fair this year I believe. I have never been to one, but was wondering whether to go this year. The trouble is I like cards that say something like 'Seasons Greetings' and don't mention Christmas, as I am Pagan. I wonder if, with this in mind, it would be worth me going. Does anyone know? Jo > A few years ago when I was with South London Animal Aid, the group ran a big > Cruelty-free Christmas event at Brixton a couple of times and we always laid > on a creche, using volunteers from the group on a rota. It was the done > thing at the time (twas a couple or three years before I had kids of my > own). It used to be the case in the late 80's, even the early 90's, that > no-one thought it an unreasonable expectation that such events would include > a creche, and then it seemed that at about the time I had my first child, > creche provision at such events suddenly went right out of fashion. It > seemed to go hand in hand with political correctness and feminism at one > time that parents had the right to the equal opportunity to be involved in > these events on equal terms with non-parents, and the non-parents quite > willingly and happily took turns and laid on creches which were free or very > low cost. People helped one another so that parents as well as non-parents > got their own free time to relax and browse and buy, unhindered by kids > pestering. Nowadays the prevailing attitude has changed, it seems to be, > " they're your kids, so no-one else is going to help you get a break, the > idea of community is a thing of the past " . > > Why can't it be the way it was just a few years ago? > > Lesley > > > " What is this life, if, full of care, > We have no time to stand and stare? " > > Some poet said it, that's how I feel. > > > > > > 12 September 2002 11:51 > > Digest Number 540 > > > Message: 15 > Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:03:24 +0100 > " Heartwork " <Heartwork > Re: Digest Number 538 > > Hi Lesley > > I know that if my children were very young I would prefer to go to the vegan > gathering, rather than the Festival. The festival is very crowded, and it > is a job to get to see everything, so I would imagine it could be boring for > very small children. > > I am looking forward to the festival, to see what new products there are, > and to taste the lovely food, especially the cakes. > > Jo > > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 There was a children's activity for parents WITH their children, but no creche as I remember. I was there last year too! Did yours stay in the actual creche? Did you see it with your own eyes? If there was a creche they kept it very well under wraps because I chatted with a mum I knew from my vegan families list, she and her partner were doing a stall together and they had three kids. They were doing some henna " tattoos " on people's hands and I commented that I was surprised that the organisers didn't at least arrange a creche for the children of parents who were actually busy doing stalls, and who really might need such a facility and she said these events almost never do have creches. Alison certainly staffed the kids' activity, not sure if Robin did, he helped I think but as I recall it was mostly Alison, and it was not the kind of thing where parents could leave their kids, it seemed to me clear that it was not a creche. Mind you I did notice some kids, quite little ones too, were left there by their parents for some time, rather naughty of the parents because it was definitely not a creche and these were only toddlers about 2 or 3 yr olds at the most. Most parents I think did understand that they were responsible for their own children and stayed. Ask Alison or Robin if you disbelieve me as to it not being a creche. They did certainly go up in my estimation for running it, it was good that there was something for the children, I was suitably happy and impressed! I only had my daughter with me (Aged 5 at the time) and I ended up helping a couple of other little ones close by whose parents had obviously wandered off and left them. I could see that they had been left unattended and I kept an eye on them, but the parents should not just go and leave them like that without asking if that was allowed, as it is a crowded event and such little kids left unsupervised could wander off and panic and get lost. Alison was leading the activity but as I understand it she was not taking responsibility for any particular children, it was still up to the parents to take responsibility for their own children, and besides there were too many to expect her to be responsible for. What if all the parents had decided to sneak off? Like I say repost this to Robin and check, I think you will find I am right. My attitude is not so much that these people are child-haters, but more that as non-parents they do not fully understand the unending pressure on many parents. It's all very well to criticise parents for bringing their kids to an LV (or any other) meeting (and perhaps being a bit noisy) but they don't know the individual situation, some parents might have no access at all to a babysitter and might never be able to get out without their children to the events they want to go to, and this situation might go on for many years. My point has always been that parents need a little understanding and support to enable them to participate in events and meetings, not condemnation for bringing children along. I don't mind that I have had to give up some activist stuff and some social life since having kids, I expected it, but I think I have had to give up a lot more than is healthy for me. I did get on a pro-life protest during the day yesterday, not on my own, with Lucy, but that was OK. The support for parents to take part used to happen when SLAA ran their cruelty-free Xmas events, but even the Vegan Society council tried to do away with the creche a few years back. The idea of free or low cost creches definitely seems to have gone out of fashion, have you and Debby noticed this too? Lesley , " quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett@b...> wrote: > IIRC there was a creche at the last vegan fest? I seem to remember > that one of the 'child hating vegans' set it up and spent some time > staffing it as well. > > > , " Lesley Dove " <Lesley@v...> wrote: > > > > Considering the way it is so crowded, so they must be raising a > fair amount > > of money, the obvious solution is for the organisers to set aside > one room > > with a few creche workers and a few toys, paper and crayons, so > that parents > > can look around without the kids at the crowded bits that are > boring for > > kids. I think especially for single parents who have no-one else > to look > > after their kids, such a facility would be very helpful and much > needed. > > Why can't it be the way it was just a few years ago? > > > > Lesley > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2002 Report Share Posted September 12, 2002 The Animal Aid Christmas Without Cruelty happens every year in Kensington, and they don't have a creche either unfortunately, nor even any kids' activities that I can recall over the last few years. They did at one time have a kids activity, but for some reason no longer do. I can't remember what the messages in most of the cards sold there say, I'm afraid. I agree that " Seasons Greetings " is better for many people, as a non-religious person I would prefer that type of card too. There are so many stalls selling cards that it would be odd if there were none at all suitable for pagans, and there are so many other good things on sale I think it is still worth going. We usually go. Lesley , " Peter " <Snowbow@b...> wrote: > Hi Lesley > > A creche sounds like a good idea. > > There is a Christmas Without Cruelty Fair this year I believe. I have never > been to one, but was wondering whether to go this year. The trouble is I > like cards that say something like 'Seasons Greetings' and don't mention > Christmas, as I am Pagan. I wonder if, with this in mind, it would be worth > me going. Does anyone know? > > Jo > > > A few years ago when I was with South London Animal Aid, the group ran a > big > > Cruelty-free Christmas event at Brixton a couple of times and we always > laid > > on a creche, using volunteers from the group on a rota. It was the done > > thing at the time (twas a couple or three years before I had kids of my > > own). It used to be the case in the late 80's, even the early 90's, that > > no-one thought it an unreasonable expectation that such events would > include > > a creche, and then it seemed that at about the time I had my first child, > > creche provision at such events suddenly went right out of fashion. It > > seemed to go hand in hand with political correctness and feminism at one > > time that parents had the right to the equal opportunity to be involved in > > these events on equal terms with non-parents, and the non-parents quite > > willingly and happily took turns and laid on creches which were free or > very > > low cost. People helped one another so that parents as well as non-parents > > got their own free time to relax and browse and buy, unhindered by kids > > pestering. Nowadays the prevailing attitude has changed, it seems to be, > > " they're your kids, so no-one else is going to help you get a break, the > > idea of community is a thing of the past " . > > > > Why can't it be the way it was just a few years ago? > > > > Lesley > > > > > > " What is this life, if, full of care, > > We have no time to stand and stare? " > > > > Some poet said it, that's how I feel. > > > > > > > > > > [] > > 12 September 2002 11:51 > > > > Digest Number 540 > > > > > > Message: 15 > > Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:03:24 +0100 > > " Heartwork " <Heartwork@b...> > > Re: Digest Number 538 > > > > Hi Lesley > > > > I know that if my children were very young I would prefer to go to the > vegan > > gathering, rather than the Festival. The festival is very crowded, and it > > is a job to get to see everything, so I would imagine it could be boring > for > > very small children. > > > > I am looking forward to the festival, to see what new products there are, > > and to taste the lovely food, especially the cakes. > > > > Jo > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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