Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Of course, fruits go to a lot of trouble to make themselves attractive to get eaten. Least we can do is to cooperate. , " Judy " <jkyrala2> wrote: > > Plants are tactic... they sense. Sentient means to be able to sense. > They respond to stimuli. They communicate with other species...often > better than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 ROTF LOL!!!! --------------------- http://petitiononline.com/TMDvD1/petition.html " Never study a Magician too closely: never look under his hat, and never look up his sleeves. Just sit back and let him do his act... " -- _________ , " gzuckier " <gzuckier> wrote: > > Of course, fruits go to a lot of trouble to make themselves > attractive to get eaten. Least we can do is to cooperate. > > , " Judy " <jkyrala2> > wrote: > > > > Plants are tactic... they sense. Sentient means to be able to > sense. > > They respond to stimuli. They communicate with other > species...often > > better than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 The centrality of the nervous system is not a requisite for pain reactions. It simply is closer to human and we tend to be very anthropocentric in our outlook on life. Plants respond to stimuli in ways that if measured in animals would be called pain reactions. Plants communicate chemically and electromagnetically with other plants and supposedly with properly attuned people. While a grad student I worked on tactic responses in several types of organisms for NSF. I have attended lectures by Lynn Margulis and her son Dorian Sagan showing organized behavior of 'independent' slime molds that indicates even the slime mold feels. Has anyone seen the Fritjof Capra film " Mind Walk " ? The poet quotes Pablo Naruda -- " Life feels itself " . (One of my favorite films with Liv Ullman; Fritjof Capra is best known for " The Tao of Physics " based on Siu's " Tao of Science " ) " People are neither fundamentally in conflict with nor essential to the global ecosystem. Even if we accomplish the extraterrestrial expansion of life, it will not be to the credit of humanity as humanity. Rather, it will be to the credit of humanity as a symbiotically evolving, globally interconnected, technologically enhanced, microbially based system. " Lynn Margulis and Dorian Sagan, Microcosmos. Her home page is... http://marlin.bio.umass.edu/faculty/biog/margulis.html We are inescapably symbiots...and should not forget it. , Diamond Dog <diamonddog@g...> wrote: > Yeah, but venous systems are not a central nervous system that can > recognize pain as, well, pain. > > Veronica > > > >I have heard the the white stuff that oozes out of a poinsettia > >is " blood. " I do know from Biology that there are venous systems in > >plants - they carry nutirents from the soil to the leaves - just like > >in an animal. > > > >I have heard that there are vegetarians that only eat " dropped " > >produce. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Yes. Much like Douglas Adams' H2G2 'Restaurant at the End of the Universe'. Most people are a bit put off by food that talks to one and suggests which part might be the tastiest... Nevertheless... , " gzuckier " <gzuckier> wrote: > > Of course, fruits go to a lot of trouble to make themselves > attractive to get eaten. Least we can do is to cooperate. > > , " Judy " <jkyrala2> > wrote: > > > > Plants are tactic... they sense. Sentient means to be able to > sense. > > They respond to stimuli. They communicate with other > species...often > > better than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 At 11:57 AM 12/10/2004 +0000, you wrote: >The centrality of the nervous system is not a requisite for pain >reactions. It simply is closer to human and we tend to be very >anthropocentric in our outlook on life. Plants respond to stimuli in >ways that if measured in animals would be called pain reactions. But without a CNS can one recognize pain *as* pain. I doubt it. It is merely a function of survival, like a reflex, which is not a sign of conciousness. Veronica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 We may not recognize the pain but the organism surely does. Our empathy usually is impacted by warm, furry, has eyes, etc. But there are things that look not at all human and yet exhibit all the characteristics of pain...even unicellular organisms. Many humans cannot even sense the pain of other human beings. But that is not because that pain does not exist. The work of Margulis and Lovelock is truly profound. Inconvenient perhaps, but profound. , Diamond Dog <diamonddog@g...> wrote: > But without a CNS can one recognize pain *as* pain. I doubt it. It is > merely a function of survival, like a reflex, which is not a sign of > conciousness. > > Veronica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 At 06:41 AM 12/11/2004 +0000, you wrote: >We may not recognize the pain but the organism surely does. It depends on your definition of pain vs. negative stimulus. Is a plant in pain when the sun moves, thus it moves to face the sun. I believe a creature has to have cognitive abilities to consider negative stimulus pain. I don't think it has anything to do with cuteness. Veronica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 " Every shred of the evidence says Earth runs like a single organism made up of living parts -- the way we're made up of living cells and microbes. Here Lovelock knew he was on the edge of trouble. It was too easy to guess that Earth is sentient like we are -- that it's self-conscious -- that it thinks and feels. " " Lovelock finally threw caution to the winds and named the Being. He called Earth Gaia -- after the Greek Earth Mother. He didn't suggest Gaia has the human qualities of a goddess. But he did let the idea hover over his text. " " Of course fringe groups have been quick to form Gaia cults. Of course scientists jitter around the Gaia concept like spit on a hot stove. Yet the idea's gaining. We begin to see ourselves as ants in a colony. We have some intelligence of our own. But our real wisdom is an aggregate thing -- woven in with the rest of the planet and its life. " " So: Is Earth a great sentient intelligent being? Is She a wise Goddess after all? Does She give us a glimpse of the face of God? I struggle to stay agnostic on that point. But I harbor no tendril of doubt that Earth is far more than we'd thought. " " We can't go too far wrong by honoring Her the way we would a live being. For you and I really are parts of a great whole. You and I misuse ourselves if Earth's well-being doesn't guide us -- in every choice we make. " http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi699.htm " Life feels itself " ... Naruda , Diamond Dog <diamonddog@g...> wrote: > At 06:41 AM 12/11/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > >We may not recognize the pain but the organism surely does. > > It depends on your definition of pain vs. negative stimulus. Is a plant in > pain when the sun moves, thus it moves to face the sun. I believe a > creature has to have cognitive abilities to consider negative stimulus > pain. I don't think it has anything to do with cuteness. > > Veronica > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Maria/Chanda <puterwitch wrote: I put it down to aspirations and the feeling of pain. This is just my opinion of course, but I think we are all part of the wheel of life, but humans are at the top >>if the " top " refers to intelligence, instead of ability to murder other living things, I think both wolves and dolphins are brighter(brain weight to body weight ratio is how science is supposed to determine intelligence) than humans.... Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 ya may have something there check this out: http://mindprod.com/intel.html - Gilbert Wirt Monday, December 13, 2004 4:07 PM Re: Re: Is Fish Meat? Maria/Chanda <puterwitch wrote: I put it down to aspirations and the feeling of pain. This is just my opinion of course, but I think we are all part of the wheel of life, but humans are at the top >>if the " top " refers to intelligence, instead of ability to murder other living things, I think both wolves and dolphins are brighter(brain weight to body weight ratio is how science is supposed to determine intelligence) than humans.... Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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