white rice vs. milk etc..

December 8, 2004

Amy I am so stuck.

I don't believe that you would be hearing about it regularly.

The same goes for horses that are used to make the drug premarin. We DON'T hear

about it. but on the same note, I am sure there are decent farmers or

organizations out there. I wish I knew which were which for this witch. Until I

do, I am eating no dairy, just soy milk and margarine, and hoping that I can run

into a milk that is milk. I would think that such a milk that is just milk, and

not negatively made milk would only be available certain times of year, that

would make sense to me. Oh geez, I am so cornfuzzled, but in any case, no milk

for me till I know what is what.

Blessings,

Chanda

-

Amy P.

Thursday, December 09, 2004 3:44 PM

Re: white rice vs. milk etc..

I actually have a degree in biology and have lived in " we raise cows

for a living areas " and have never seen the cruelty that is

purported. Historically a few cows have lactated without giving birth

and there is legitimate university research to back it up - trust me

when you are working in a university you are SUPER humane because you

are watched from several angles. Also cows like humans can continue

to lactate without giving birth over and over again for years - even

if the calf is allowed to wean naturally. I am sure it does happen,

but I do not think it is as rampant as purported by some. Animal

abuse laws have been on the book in the US longer that child abuse

laws. I think some people are out looking for " problems. " I also

believe that some people who are out looking for problems fail to

report on good things. (Like guns in school - if a kid brings a gun

to school every news outlet in town will be there with out with out

proof, if the kids are doing a community service project - do you

hear about it? Do you think there are not good things going on in

schools?) I know people who video chicken plants for hours hoping to

get 1 shot of a chicken being treated cruely (beyond the living in

pens issue) so that anti-chicken people will pay for the footage.

Specifically they are at Purdue (a large chicken farm) is located on

Maryland's Eastern shore. Furthermore, whenever something bad

happens - the newsmen are there. The newsmen also are out there

regularly checking - just in case they can get a story (stories =

promotions).

I am in no way for poor treatment, but like other things one bad

apple has runied a whole barrel. Where 1 or a few farms have

mistreated animals - the whole farming industry is held liable. This

can not be true. You would be hearing about it in the local news

regularly - they love this kind of story.

December 8, 2004

I was being abused at a company. I was forced to work hours that were not agreed

on upon my hire, most of our herd was laid off, and the rest of the herd forced

to do the work of the rest that were gone. I was threatened and emotionally

abused. I called the labor board, and I was told they could do anything they

wanted, they were a private company.

I am human, just think if I were a horse or a cow.

Blessings,

Chanda

-

Diamond Dog

Thursday, December 09, 2004 4:38 PM

Re: Re: white rice vs. milk etc..

>You would be hearing about it in the local news

>regularly - they love this kind of story.

Actually, this kind of cruel treatment is the norm, not the exception. Most

animal cruelty laws exclude farm animals or have provisions to make them

unable to prosecute anything that is done in that they refer to as " normal

farming practices " . You underestimate the power of monsanto and other

farming magnates to keep things quiet and keep people out, and overestimate

the caring nature of most viewers. People also used to pretend child

molestation and spousal abuse didn't exist or that slaves were happy and

better off being slaves.

Veronica

December 8, 2004

That's debatable. Milk being bad for you is one of THE GREATEST LIES

OUT THERE. It's the antibiotics and the hormones that will kill you.

Once I reintroduced organic milk in my diet, I felt alive! Cow milk

is the best I could have done for my body. Emphasis on MY.

God made cow with way more milk they could use because It had in

mind that humans would partake of the surplus. Unless you're lactose

intolerant there's nothing wrong w/milk quite the contrary. Except

for the belief that it's bad for you. Then it's the belief that will

harm you, not the milk itself. Butter is also excellent. Wouldn't

touch the " I can't believe... " if they paid me to!

Corn syrup is not a food IMH but you're right there. Though white

rice, white bread is probably a step above eating cardboard,

probably more palatable but way more toxic I'm sure...

, Diamond Dog

<diamonddog@g...> wrote:

> >A Jasmine rice (though it's white and nothing worse for the

body, I'd

> rather have meat >personally as long as it's organic) and one for

the veggies,

>

> I'm betting that it's not the worst food for one's body, eaten in

> moderation. Milk, butter, corn syrup, and a lot of other things

are far

> worse to my knowledge.

>

> Veronica

>

December 9, 2004

Your post seems reactionary with loose statement and no facts.

Obviously when u make absolute statements like God made

cows for humans to have milk and soforth, there is no room for

debate. Drinking milk is not like slurping syrup or coke but i don't

see it as the best stuff to consume. There are alternative ways of

getting what your body gets from milk drinking.

Shouting " LIES " doesnt make your case though your personal

experience does. You were obviously lacking something that led

you back to milk but your arguement about all that surplus milk

isnt based on logic. Just making statements like " butter is also

excellent " and harmones will " kill you " is unhelpful since u didn't

offer any evidence. I'd say the reason we have surplus milk is

that an industry was created by humans though it fofills a need.

When i added dairy into my diet it made me feel worse and my

cholestrol count went up besides weight gain. You can get

calcium from many sources and i cannot think of a reason to

drink milk though i recognize that people have different needs

and desires.

Because i don't make my personal choices based on " God " or

the concept of sin, etc. i cant get behind your reasoning. Groups

like this are only to challenge us to become more aware and

think about the choices we make. You have to discover what

works for u but many are so out of touch with their bodies that

dietary suggestions and education is needed.

There is plenty of evidence to support the fact that breeding cattle

is causing environmental problems all over the world and it's

time to find alternatives. Cows use lots of resources besides

taking up valuable farm land.

I am glad that some people are considerate enough to support

friendlier farming practices as i witnessed in Switzerland, but i

believe that many people can do without milk. Not everyone is

willing to have a cow in their yard or get up to milk them.

d*

" spirit1hawk " <irvine@p...> wrote:

>

> That's debatable. Milk being bad for you is one of THE

GREATEST LIES OUT THERE. It's the antibiotics and the

hormones that will kill you.

> Once I reintroduced organic milk in my diet, I felt alive! Cow

milk is the best I could have done for my body. Emphasis on MY.

> God made cow with way more milk they could use because It

had in mind that humans would partake of the surplus. Unless

you're lactose intolerant there's nothing wrong w/milk quite the

contrary. Except for the belief that it's bad for you. Then it's the

belief that will harm you, not the milk itself. Butter is also

excellent. Wouldn't touch the " I can't believe... " if they paid me to!

>

> > Veronica , " spirit1hawk " <irvine@p...> wrote:

>

> That's debatable. Milk being bad for you is one of THE

GREATEST LIES

> OUT THERE. It's the antibiotics and the hormones that will kill

you.

> Once I reintroduced organic milk in my diet, I felt alive! Cow

milk

> is the best I could have done for my body. Emphasis on MY.

>

> God made cow with way more milk they could use because It

had in

> mind that humans would partake of the surplus. Unless you're

lactose

> intolerant there's nothing wrong w/milk quite the contrary.

Except

> for the belief that it's bad for you. Then it's the belief that will

> harm you, not the milk itself. Butter is also excellent. Wouldn't

> touch the " I can't believe... " if they paid me to!

>

> Corn syrup is not a food IMH but you're right there. Though

white

> rice, white bread is probably a step above eating cardboard,

> probably more palatable but way more toxic I'm sure...

>

> , Diamond Dog

> <diamonddog@g...> wrote:

> > >A Jasmine rice (though it's white and nothing worse for the

> body, I'd

> > rather have meat >personally as long as it's organic) and

one for

> the veggies,

> >

> > I'm betting that it's not the worst food for one's body, eaten in

> > moderation. Milk, butter, corn syrup, and a lot of other things

> are far

> > worse to my knowledge.

> >

> > Veronica

> >

December 9, 2004

-

spirit1hawk

>That's debatable. Milk being bad for you is one of THE GREATEST LIES

>OUT THERE. It's the antibiotics and the hormones that will kill you.

>Once I reintroduced organic milk in my diet, I felt alive! Cow milk

>is the best I could have done for my body. Emphasis on MY.

>God made cow with way more milk they could use because It had in

>mind that humans would partake of the surplus. Unless you're lactose

>intolerant there's nothing wrong w/milk quite the contrary. Except

>for the belief that it's bad for you. Then it's the belief that will

>harm you, not the milk itself. Butter is also excellent. Wouldn't

>touch the " I can't believe... " if they paid me to!

>Corn syrup is not a food IMH but you're right there. Though white

>rice, white bread is probably a step above eating cardboard,

>probably more palatable but way more toxic I'm sure...

But are we not the only animal that drinks milk once weened off our Mother,

there has to be a thought in there somewhere.

Just out of curiousity, when you weren't drinking milk were you also making sure

you were getting the protien and other possible nutrients found in milk from

other sources?

Perhaps these links may provide some insight into the life of a dairy cow - not

exactly living life as nature had intended it to be from where i am sitting. If

i was female, or my wife, had just given birth only to have the baby taken away

and someone come along and start expressing the breast milk against ones will,

well I could not imagine it being an experience as nature had intended...

http://www.vegansociety.com/html/animals/exploitation/cows/dairy_cow.php

http://www.vegansociety.com/html/animals/exploitation/cows/poor_mother.php

And here is an article on the possible link between lactose and ovarian cancer

- http://webcenter.health.webmd.netscape.com/content/Article/97/104354.htm

Pete...

http://www.primalvision.net

" There is a vitality, a life force, an energy, a quickening, that is translated

through you into action, and because there is only one of you in all time, this

expression is unique. And if you block it, it will never exist through any

other medium and will be lost " - Martha Graham

December 9, 2004

Cows don't naturally produce excess milk. They can only make milk if they give

birth to a calf. If left with their calf they only produce enough for the calf.

They produce all that excess for several reasons: 1. They are bred and sometimes

genetically engineered to produce more milk than normal. 2. Their calves are

taken away, either at birth or a few days later so that the calf doesn't " steal "

the milk. 3. They are fed a richer diet than they need. 4. They are milked

often, sometimes several times a day, and lactating animals tend to make milk

based on the amount taken, so their bodies produce the amount that the milking

machine takes. 5. They are kept on a constant cycle of pregnancy and birth so

that milk production does not cease.

The amount of milk cows are forced to produce takes a toll on their bodies, so

that they are usually used up at 3-5 years of age rather than the 20 years of

their ancestors. Whether or not the milk is organic, the cows are still treated

like milk machines, and their babies dragged away kicking and screaming. And

organic cows are usually denied veterinary care even more often since the

medicines would make them unable to be labeled organic.

All your favorites on one personal page – Try My

December 9, 2004

At 07:23 AM 12/9/2004 +0000, you wrote:

>That's debatable. Milk being bad for you is one of THE GREATEST LIES

>OUT THERE. It's the antibiotics and the hormones that will kill you.

>Once I reintroduced organic milk in my diet, I felt alive! Cow milk

>is the best I could have done for my body. Emphasis on MY.

I have to disagree. No other species drinks milk beyond infancy for a

reason...cow's milk is made to make baby cows gain hundreds of pounds in a

year. Animal fat is horrible for the arteries and milk saps the body of

iron. Cows were not " made " having excessive milk production. We bred them

to be that way (cows, as we know them, are a human conjecture, ill-bred for

their own health and well-being) not to mention that we force them to be

constantly pregnant (or recovering from pregnancy) at the " rape rack " so

they will continue to make milk, then kill them when they no longer

produce. Not to mention stealing their babies for veal. There's nothing

natural about drinking milk, organic or no.

Lactose intolerance is not an allergy, but the natural progression of

maturing...weaning oneself, per se. If it works for you, good (well, bad

for the cows) but in general, it's not a health food.

Veronica

December 9, 2004

Butter is also excellent. Wouldn't

> touch the " I can't believe... " if they paid me to!

I have to agree with you hear.... What exactly is in margarine

anyway....

December 9, 2004

I actually prefer " Smart Balance - Light " to butter or margarine - it's

a blend of olive, soy, and flax oils, and it is not only dairy-free,

it's free of transfats.

Debra Lee Thompson

Analyst - Mortgage I

First Horizon Home Loans Corporation

debrathompson <debrathompson

214.492.7402

Amy P. [aviva_ha]

Thursday, December 09, 2004 1:18 PM

Re: white rice vs. milk etc..

Butter is also excellent. Wouldn't

> touch the " I can't believe... " if they paid me to!

I have to agree with you hear.... What exactly is in margarine

anyway....

December 9, 2004

Me too-YUM! All the taste, and none of the problems.

" Thompson, Debra lee " <Debrathompson wrote:I actually prefer

" Smart Balance - Light " to butter or margarine - it's

a blend of olive, soy, and flax oils, and it is not only dairy-free,

it's free of transfats.

Debra Lee Thompson

Analyst - Mortgage I

First Horizon Home Loans Corporation

debrathompson <debrathompson

214.492.7402

Amy P. [aviva_ha]

Thursday, December 09, 2004 1:18 PM

Re: white rice vs. milk etc..

Butter is also excellent. Wouldn't

> touch the " I can't believe... " if they paid me to!

I have to agree with you hear.... What exactly is in margarine

anyway....

December 9, 2004

If i was female, or my wife, had just given birth only to have the

baby taken away and someone come along and start expressing the

breast milk against ones will, well I could not imagine it being an

experience as nature had intended...

I don't know how all farms are ran, but a dairly cow is not

equivalent to a human females in milk production. Humans only start

to lactate becasue of hormonal changes that occurn during pregnancy.

Theoretically if she contined to breastfeed daily, she would not stop

lactating - Look into wet-nurses & /or women who still nuse 2 & 3 year

olds. Cows do not need the hormone to start lactating, so they do not

even have to have a calf to give milk. Furthermore, it is far more

painful for a cow to " hold " the milk than to have it expressed. BTW

the expressing of milk has been described as massage (pleasurable)

like. (I have never given birth, so I can not vouce for the

sensation; however, I have seen cats nursing and it appears to be

pleasurable. I know for me that when my cat " kneads " me it is quite

pleasurable.)

Just remember that there are two sides to every story and Veggie

groups are going to emphasize what they want just as the meat and

dairy groups are going to emphasize that they want. There are bad

parts on both sides. (Tomaotes forced to grow in hot houses, Crop

pickers living in POVERTY, Organic farmers charging a premium, etc.)

December 9, 2004

, " Thompson, Debra lee "

<Debrathompson@f...> wrote:

> I actually prefer " Smart Balance - Light "

I like this one too - I prefer butter, and in baking it is all I

use - however, I use Smart Balance when I cook & it is nice for

spreading when the butter isn't softened. I have family members

with high cholesterol, etc. and a hubby who could do with shedding a

few pounds, the Smart Balance cooks up nicely and suites the needs

of the previously mentioned - and I don't feel awful giving it to

the kids!

m

December 9, 2004

What a great taste too. In use it on baked potatoes with Mrs. Dash. and chopped

chives.

" Thompson, Debra lee " <Debrathompson wrote:I actually prefer

" Smart Balance - Light " to butter or margarine - it's

a blend of olive, soy, and flax oils, and it is not only dairy-free,

it's free of transfats.

Debra Lee Thompson

Analyst - Mortgage I

First Horizon Home Loans Corporation

debrathompson <debrathompson

214.492.7402

Amy P. [aviva_ha]

Thursday, December 09, 2004 1:18 PM

Re: white rice vs. milk etc..

Butter is also excellent. Wouldn't

> touch the " I can't believe... " if they paid me to!

I have to agree with you hear.... What exactly is in margarine

anyway....

December 9, 2004

Yes, I love it:) I've also had good luck with it in making grilled

sandwiches - and at only 45 calories per serving, I don't have any guilt

on that end!!

Debra Lee Thompson

Analyst - Mortgage I

First Horizon Home Loans Corporation

debrathompson <debrathompson

214.492.7402

GeminiDragon [thelilacflower]

Thursday, December 09, 2004 1:47 PM

RE: Re: white rice vs. milk etc..

What a great taste too. In use it on baked potatoes with Mrs.

Dash. and chopped chives.

" Thompson, Debra lee " <Debrathompson wrote:I

actually prefer " Smart Balance - Light " to butter or margarine - it's

a blend of olive, soy, and flax oils, and it is not only

dairy-free,

it's free of transfats.

Debra Lee Thompson

Analyst - Mortgage I

First Horizon Home Loans Corporation

debrathompson <debrathompson

214.492.7402

Amy P. [aviva_ha]

Thursday, December 09, 2004 1:18 PM

Re: white rice vs. milk

etc..

Butter is also excellent. Wouldn't

> touch the " I can't believe... " if they paid me to!

I have to agree with you hear.... What exactly is in

margarine

anyway....

December 9, 2004

> Yes, I love it:) I've also had good luck with it in making grilled

> sandwiches - and at only 45 calories per serving, I don't have any

guilt

> on that end!!

Aww - but Grilled cheese is supposed to be a guilty pleasure. I like

it with a slice of apple stuck in the middle or tomato..... I have

had a steamed grilled cheese before - now that was NICE! I wanted a

veggie meal at a fast food place that had a steamer - this is what I

got - I had lettuce, tomaotes, onions and pickles on the steamed

cheese bun.

December 9, 2004

If cows did not have to have calves to continue or start milk production, the

farms would not be constantly keeping the cows pregnant like they do. In nature

the milk production would decline as the calf consumed less milk. Cows do not

spontaneously begin making milk. They are just like any other animal. They can

continue to produce milk for sometime after giving birth, but farmers want to

keep the production at an artificially high level, as much as 100 pounds a day

(10 times more than they would naturally produce), so the cows must continue to

calve, usually once a year. They live either chained in buildings or in filthy

feedlots. Milking is painful because the cows are bred to have the biggest

udders possible (to make extra milk), sometimes so large they drag on the

ground, the cows annot walk normally, and mastitis (infection of the udder) runs

rampart. They are still milked even with swollen, infected udders. Even

organic cows might graze maybe only 3-4 months of the

year, if they are lucky. Milk is taken using mechanical " milking wheels " which

are used to milk many cows simultaneously. These wheels serve to make the lives

of dairy cows even more difficult because, at any given operation, they enable

operations to milk each cow a higher number of times per day. The cows are

hooked by their udders to electronic milking machines, which can cause the cows

to suffer electrical shocks, painful lesions, and worsen and spread mastitis.

The highest proportion of " downer cows " are former dairy cows, because just a

few years of being forced to produce tens of thousands of pounds of milk leaches

vital nutrients from their bodies, causing them to become lame and diseased, and

suffer from brittle bones. Up to 25% of a herd may be culled every year because

their bodies are worn out from the endless cycle of birth and lactation. At

that point, they are slaughtered and usually ground up to make hamburgers

because their meat is of such poor quality. Their

babies may be sold for veal or used for rennet, or females may eventually

replace their mothers.

Drinking milk is a personal choice, like eating meat, but it still causes

cruelty to animals.

Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.

December 9, 2004

Do you have Sonic drive-Ins where you live? They steam toast their

grilled cheese sandwiches (only 99 cents too). Unfortunately for me,

tho - I've recently discovered that I have an allergy to dairy - so no

more real cheese for me...*sigh* I was never a big milk drinker, tho -

always gives me a sore throat - but now I've found nut milks and am in

heaven!!

Debra Lee Thompson

Analyst - Mortgage I

First Horizon Home Loans Corporation

debrathompson <debrathompson

214.492.7402

Amy P. [aviva_ha]

Thursday, December 09, 2004 2:05 PM

Re: white rice vs. milk etc..

> Yes, I love it:) I've also had good luck with it in making

grilled

> sandwiches - and at only 45 calories per serving, I don't have

any

guilt

> on that end!!

Aww - but Grilled cheese is supposed to be a guilty pleasure. I

like

it with a slice of apple stuck in the middle or tomato..... I

have

had a steamed grilled cheese before - now that was NICE! I

wanted a

veggie meal at a fast food place that had a steamer - this is

what I

got - I had lettuce, tomaotes, onions and pickles on the steamed

cheese bun.

December 9, 2004