Guest guest Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Tommie, I just perused Fred's site. I hate to say that it is not my cup of tea. I read his comments on the cacao bean.I can not honor an approach that criticizes without supplying evidence for the claims they are making against it. He states that theobromine(SP) is a stimulant which is true. But, it is a very mild one and there are many foods that stimulate, such as cheyenne pepper which we all use. I don't have my copy of Naked Chocolate by David Wolfe so I can't rebut what he says with citations, but Wolfe would say that he is wrong, wrong, wrong about cacao not being good for us!! I have to agree with the person who said he Fred does not seem to have much science behind what he says. I am not sure how healthy following his approach for a lifetime would be. To me, a green drink is not 60% moderate to high glycemic fruits, all that glucose is pretty stimulating and metabolizes fast and I would think push ones sugar levels pretty high, a green drink is cucumber and celery for a base with lots of dark greens and some seasonings such as cheyenne, salt or ginger. Having said this, my guess is that following his advice probably results in a better diet than SAD and certainly no worse. He is just not someone I can listen to, I need to be sure that the person giving me advice really understands why the lights come on when I throw the switch. Tommie, I know this has worked for you in a wonderful way and I applaud that. I just wanted to share my reactions so that those others out there who have the same concerns I do know that they aren't alone. Different strokes for different folks. Respectfully, Tammy On Mar 18, 2006, at 7:55 AM, paddlerwoman wrote: > Tommie, > You have convinced me to check him out. I was not impressed by his > comments on dental health. I felt that most of the comments would > apply > to anyone who ate a high sugar diet and/or had poor dental hygiene. > Guess part of my reaction is because I do Rainbow Green which is not > high is sugary items. Will give this a whirl. --I do tend to be a > person who wants to know why the lights come on when I throw the > switch > and particularly when it is going to affect my body. > > Tammy > On Mar 18, 2006, at 7:33 AM, jerushy1944 wrote: > > > I hadn't heard of him a year ago, either. That being said, I'd never > > heard of Paul Nison, Gabriel Cousens, or David Wolfe. Frederic is > > classed with them (and Doug Graham) as a raw food guru. What he > > teaches _is_ based on Dr. Graham's methods and, as such, it is the > > most nutritious out there. It's also the easiest to do. > > > > I don't know how electricity works but I know the light will come > on > > when I flip the switch. > > Later, > > Tommie > > http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com > > > > rawfood , " Diana P. " <laurelai3 wrote: > > > > > > Hey, I can accept that. I am new to raw and had never heard of > this > > > guy. When I was reading the way he described the fat coating the > > > glucose molecules and insulin receptors, I was raising my eyebrow > > > saying, " What?! "   However, it's not always important knowing > how it > > > works just that it does work > > > > > > Peace, > > > Diana > > > > > > rawfood , jerushy1944 <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Good morning, Diana, > > > > I can assure you that Frederic doesn't " make up " anything. He > > might > > > > not have hard science to back him up but neither do a lot of > other > > > raw > > > > food gurus. > > > (clipped) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Yes, to each his/her own is true. I'm just glad that I found the site first instead of having to wade through what, no doubt, wouldn't have worked for me. I know the other method didn't work for my daughter (emphasis on lots of nuts, avocados, the use of raw cacao (and there is some debate about its " really raw-ness " ) and less fruit) and she and I are a lot alike. As for the " high sugar " , it comes with all the nutrients it needs to be assimilated. I'm not diabetic so that isn't something I need to be concerned about. I'm sure, if you did some research, you could find evidence to support what Frederic says. You could also find research that supports the opposite opinion. I have stopped listening to research and I listen to my own body. Good luck! Tommie http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com rawfood , paddlerwoman wrote: > > Tommie, > > I just perused Fred's site. I hate to say that it is not my cup of tea. > I read his comments on the cacao bean.I can not honor an approach that > criticizes without supplying evidence for the claims they are making > against it. He states that theobromine(SP) is a stimulant which is > true. But, it is a very mild one and there are many foods that > stimulate, such as cheyenne pepper which we all use. I don't have my > copy of Naked Chocolate by David Wolfe so I can't rebut what he says > with citations, but Wolfe would say that he is wrong, wrong, wrong > about cacao not being good for us!! I have to agree with the person > who said he Fred does not seem to have much science behind what he > says. I am not sure how healthy following his approach for a lifetime > would be. To me, a green drink is not 60% moderate to high glycemic > fruits, all that glucose is pretty stimulating and metabolizes fast and > I would think push ones sugar levels pretty high, a green drink is > cucumber and celery for a base with lots of dark greens and some > seasonings such as cheyenne, salt or ginger. > > Having said this, my guess is that following his advice probably > results in a better diet than SAD and certainly no worse. He is just > not someone I can listen to, I need to be sure that the person giving > me advice really understands why the lights come on when I throw the > switch. > > Tommie, I know this has worked for you in a wonderful way and I applaud > that. I just wanted to share my reactions so that those others out > there who have the same concerns I do know that they aren't alone. > Different strokes for different folks. > > Respectfully, > > Tammy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Tammy - you say Fredric has not scientific backup and you were looking for your David Wolfe book, well, David has no more scientific backup than Fred! The raw food community is all in the same boat, they need to do their own research. No one, to my knowledge, has that type of money and there certainly is no " free " money out there for such a study. Most studies are backed by the company trying to sell you something and food is free (so to speak). I've done over 50 hours of tele classes with Frederic and find him to be most knowledgeable. I've also sat in many talks by David Wolfe and have found him to be very full of interesting ideas as well. For every person out there talking about a raw food diet, you will find a different way of presenting the way of eating. Dr. Graham says 80-10-10; Victoria Boutenko is big into green smoothies (base of greens with fruit added); Natural Hygiene says to eat nothing you cannot sit down and make an entire meal of (i.e. oils, spices, garlic, onion, etc...); Dr. Malkmus says 80% raw, 20% cooked; and they ALL claim healing with their way of eating. Bottom line is we have to find what works for ourselves and run with it! Shari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Shari, I agree with the finding out what works and running with it. Personalizing your diet to what works best for your body is the only way to go. I am happy to hear that your experience with Fredric was a positive one. I will look at this website some more. My post was my initial reaction to what I pulled up. Thanks for sharing your experience. There is someone doing research- Gabriel Cousens and his staff at the Tree of Life. He has started a masters program in raw Vegan living or diet, not sure of the exact title. It is a small beginning but it is a beginning. They are also working on some vegan farming experiments at the Tree. On Mar 19, 2006, at 10:09 AM, SV wrote: > Tammy - you say Fredric has not scientific backup and you were looking > for your David Wolfe book, well, David has no more scientific backup > than Fred! The raw food community is all in the same boat, they need > to do their own research. No one, to my knowledge, has that type of > money and there certainly is no " free " money out there for such a > study. Most studies are backed by the company trying to sell you > something and food is free (so to speak). > > I've done over 50 hours of tele classes with Frederic and find him to > be most knowledgeable. I've also sat in many talks by David Wolfe and > have found him to be very full of interesting ideas as well. For > every person out there talking about a raw food diet, you will find a > different way of presenting the way of eating. > > Dr. Graham says 80-10-10; Victoria Boutenko is big into green > smoothies (base of greens with fruit added); Natural Hygiene says to > eat nothing you cannot sit down and make an entire meal of (i.e. oils, > spices, garlic, onion, etc...); Dr. Malkmus says 80% raw, 20% cooked; > and they ALL claim healing with their way of eating. > > Bottom line is we have to find what works for ourselves and run with > it! > > Shari > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Victoria Boutenko has done research on her own with a group of people using her green smoothies. Problem is, the research anyone does privately isn't on a broad enough scale to be accepted as valid. I'm doing research on me but unless I had a " doubleblind " study going with several hundred participants, it would never fly scientifically. Plus, I would probably have to apply for government funding and you know the government would never go for that. Anything that threatens the use of agribusiness is verboten. Tommie http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com rawfood , paddlerwoman wrote: > > Shari, > > I agree with the finding out what works and running with it. > Personalizing your diet to what works best for your body is the only > way to go. I am happy to hear that your experience with Fredric was a > positive one. I will look at this website some more. My post was my > initial reaction to what I pulled up. Thanks for sharing your > experience. > > There is someone doing research- Gabriel Cousens and his staff at the > Tree of Life. He has started a masters program in raw Vegan living or > diet, not sure of the exact title. It is a small beginning but it is a > beginning. They are also working on some vegan farming experiments at > the Tree. > > > On Mar 19, 2006, at 10:09 AM, SV wrote: > > > Tammy - you say Fredric has not scientific backup and you were looking > > for your David Wolfe book, well, David has no more scientific backup > > than Fred! The raw food community is all in the same boat, they need > > to do their own research. No one, to my knowledge, has that type of > > money and there certainly is no " free " money out there for such a > > study. Most studies are backed by the company trying to sell you > > something and food is free (so to speak). > > > > I've done over 50 hours of tele classes with Frederic and find him to > > be most knowledgeable. I've also sat in many talks by David Wolfe and > > have found him to be very full of interesting ideas as well. For > > every person out there talking about a raw food diet, you will find a > > different way of presenting the way of eating. > > > > Dr. Graham says 80-10-10; Victoria Boutenko is big into green > > smoothies (base of greens with fruit added); Natural Hygiene says to > > eat nothing you cannot sit down and make an entire meal of (i.e. oils, > > spices, garlic, onion, etc...); Dr. Malkmus says 80% raw, 20% cooked; > > and they ALL claim healing with their way of eating. > > > > Bottom line is we have to find what works for ourselves and run with > > it! > > > > Shari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Oh, yes! How could I forget Gabriel Cousens!! I am just biding my time to have enough time to take an apprenticeship with him. Unfortunately working for a school only leaves me summers and I don't really care for summers in Arizona. Been there, done that, have the skin damage to prove it!! Shari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Shari, If you don't have time for a full apprenticeship, taking the one week Conscious Eating Seminar is a wonderful alternative. I learned a tremendous amount. I would love to do the masters program but am not sure if I am ready for that big of a time and financial commitment at this point in my life. Just being there with all those people who were eating raw was an inspiration. Nice place, nice people. Hope you get there someday. Have only spent a week in AZ in the summer and it is hot but the Tree is at 4000 feet so it might not get so hot there and I think that it does cool down pretty good at night. Tammy On Mar 19, 2006, at 3:41 PM, SV wrote: > Oh, yes! How could I forget Gabriel Cousens!! I am just biding my > time to have enough time to take an apprenticeship with him. > Unfortunately working for a school only leaves me summers and I don't > really care for summers in Arizona. Been there, done that, have the > skin damage to prove it!! > > Shari > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2006 Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 Thanks, Tammy. I will remember that when and if I get the opportunity to get there! Did you happen to meet Lorraine Barnes when you were there? She is a friend and we've done a couple of classes together. Shari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 How much did one week cost you? I would love to go. What were the topics etc. Is it worthwhile for somebody already 100% raw? Robert W > > paddlerwoman > 2006/03/19 Sun PM 05:06:29 EST > rawfood > Re: [Raw Food] Fred's site > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 The only one that makes scientific claims (to my knowledge) is Robert Young. Robert W > > " SV " <shavig > 2006/03/19 Sun AM 10:09:36 EST > <rawfood > > Re: [Raw Food] Fred's site > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 Cost was aroung $1800 for class, room, board and use of the facilities. And, yes it was worth it, I was alreacy 95% raw for 4 months. We had two classes a day for six days, 2-3 each. Covered topics such as salads, dressings, breads, crackers, desserts, etc. What I loved was that the chefs didn't really stick to recipes. I came away with an understanding of how to adjust recipes and do things from scratch w/o a recipe. I truly believe that they can make crackers from anything from left over soups and dressings to tabouli. I have a lot more confidence and a lot more ideas. Do be aware that a lot of the item they teach are the fancier, transistion foods. Anyone who is already 100% raw who goes there probably will overeat the first few days, wanting to try everything. After a few days, I started taking TBS of things I wanted to try and still ended up with too much sometimes. The staff is all wonderful when it comes to sharing recipes from the buffet and technique. I also feel that I could call the Cafe now and ask how to do something I did not understand. I highly recommend the Conscious Eating seminar for anyone, 20-100% raw. They honor where you are. Tammy On Mar 19, 2006, at 7:02 PM, rbwest01 wrote: > How much did one week cost you? I would love to go. What were the > topics etc. Is it worthwhile for somebody already 100% raw? > > Robert W > > > > paddlerwoman > > 2006/03/19 Sun PM 05:06:29 EST > > rawfood > > Re: [Raw Food] Fred's site > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 sounds wonderful. Have to fit this in somewhere. Robert W > > paddlerwoman > 2006/03/20 Mon AM 11:57:18 EST > rawfood > Re: [Raw Food] Fred's site > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 where are these class's? Donna paddlerwoman wrote: Cost was aroung $1800 for class, room, board and use of the facilities. And, yes it was worth it, I was alreacy 95% raw for 4 months. We had two classes a day for six days, 2-3 each. Covered topics such as salads, dressings, breads, crackers, desserts, etc. What I loved was that the chefs didn't really stick to recipes. I came away with an understanding of how to adjust recipes and do things from scratch w/o a recipe. I truly believe that they can make crackers from anything from left over soups and dressings to tabouli. I have a lot more confidence and a lot more ideas. Do be aware that a lot of the item they teach are the fancier, transistion foods. Anyone who is already 100% raw who goes there probably will overeat the first few days, wanting to try everything. After a few days, I started taking TBS of things I wanted to try and still ended up with too much sometimes. The staff is all wonderful when it comes to sharing recipes from the buffet and technique. I also feel that I could call the Cafe now and ask how to do something I did not understand. I highly recommend the Conscious Eating seminar for anyone, 20-100% raw. They honor where you are. Tammy On Mar 19, 2006, at 7:02 PM, rbwest01 wrote: > How much did one week cost you? I would love to go. What were the > topics etc. Is it worthwhile for somebody already 100% raw? > > Robert W > > > > paddlerwoman > > 2006/03/19 Sun PM 05:06:29 EST > > rawfood > > Re: [Raw Food] Fred's site > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2006 Report Share Posted March 20, 2006 They are at the Tree of Life in Patagonia, AZ www.treeoflife.nu On Mar 20, 2006, at 2:30 PM, donna mccrossen wrote: > where are these class's? >  Donna > > paddlerwoman wrote: >  Cost was aroung $1800 for class, room, board and use of the > facilities. > And, yes it was worth it, I was alreacy 95% raw for 4 months. We had > two classes a day for six days, 2-3 each. Covered topics such as > salads, dressings, breads, crackers, desserts, etc. What I loved was > that the chefs didn't really stick to recipes. I came away with an > understanding of how to adjust recipes and do things from scratch w/o > a > recipe. I truly believe that they can make crackers from anything from > left over soups and dressings to tabouli. I have a lot more confidence > and a lot more ideas. Do be aware that a lot of the item they teach > are the fancier, transistion foods. Anyone who is already 100% raw > who > goes there probably will overeat the first few days, wanting to try > everything. After a few days, I started taking TBS of things I wanted > to try and still ended up with too much sometimes. The staff is all > wonderful when it comes to sharing recipes from the buffet and > technique. I also feel that I could call the Cafe now and ask how to > do > something I did not understand. I highly recommend the Conscious > Eating > seminar for anyone, 20-100% raw. They honor where you are. > > Tammy > On Mar 19, 2006, at 7:02 PM, rbwest01 wrote: > > > How much did one week cost you? I would love to go. What were the > > topics etc. Is it worthwhile for somebody already 100% raw? > > > > Robert W > > > > > > paddlerwoman > > > 2006/03/19 Sun PM 05:06:29 EST > > > rawfood > > > Re: [Raw Food] Fred's site > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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