Orthorexia Nervosa - Tommie & others on subject

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Tommie,

May I suggest we all visit his site and email Dr. Bratman with the posts we've

made regarding his essay? I know I am. In fact, I could include a link to our

group home page, asking him to view our subject replies. But it's not

guaranteed he'd do that; doctors are 'too busy' to do what they don't feel like

doing. So maybe we should email him separately?

-Tiffany

 

jerushy1944 <no_reply > wrote:

The original essay by the doctor who coined the term " orthoexia nervosa " is

here>> http://www.orthorexia.com/index.php?page=essay. I don't think he has it

quite right but everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't think I would sit

down and eat what he did and still

feel good--physically or mentally.

Tommie

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

We could flood his inbox with messages. However, my husband always

said (and it wasn't original with him), " A man convinced against his

will is of the same opinion still. " Wouldn't hurt to try, though.

 

Tommie

http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

 

rawfood , Tiffany <bluelairess wrote:

>

> Thanks, Tommie,

> May I suggest we all visit his site and email Dr. Bratman with

the posts we've made regarding his essay? I know I am. In fact, I

could include a link to our group home page, asking him to view our

subject replies. But it's not guaranteed he'd do that; doctors

are 'too busy' to do what they don't feel like doing. So maybe we

should email him separately?

> -Tiffany

>

> jerushy1944 <no_reply > wrote:

> The original essay by the doctor who coined the term " orthoexia

nervosa " is here>> http://www.orthorexia.com/index.php?page=essay. I

don't think he has it quite right but everyone is entitled to an

opinion. I don't think I would sit down and eat what he did and still

> feel good--physically or mentally.

> Tommie

[Guest guest]

Tommie, I like that saying, as in I could apply it to some people I know. Never

heard it before. ALTHOUGH, after reading his essay, Dr. Bratman has 'convinced

against his will' written ALL over him!

I think it's just that for example, when he mentioned getting a patient off

all meds, he found food alergies so that she would have to avoid too many foods

- I believe most of those foods would have been fine for her if eaten in the raw

state!

-Tiffany

 

jerushy1944 <no_reply > wrote:

We could flood his inbox with messages. However, my husband always said (and

it wasn't original with him), " A man convinced against his will is of the same

opinion still. " Wouldn't hurt to try, though.

Tommie

http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

 

In rawfood , Tiffany <bluelairess wrote:

Thanks, Tommie, May I suggest we all visit his site and email Dr. Bratman with

the posts we've made regarding his essay? I know I am. In fact, I could

include a link to our group home page, asking him to view our subject replies.

But it's not guaranteed he'd do that; doctors are 'too busy' to do what they

don't feel like doing. So maybe we should email him separately?

-Tiffany

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Tiffany, I'm sure you're right about being able to tolerate raw food

better than cooked. One test of whether or not a food should be eaten

is: if it has to be cooked to be utilized by the human body, it's

best left alone.

 

Tommie

http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

 

rawfood , Tiffany <bluelairess wrote:

>

> Tommie, I like that saying, as in I could apply it to some people I

know. Never heard it before. ALTHOUGH, after reading his essay, Dr.

Bratman has 'convinced against his will' written ALL over him!

> I think it's just that for example, when he mentioned getting a

patient off all meds, he found food alergies so that she would have

to avoid too many foods - I believe most of those foods would have

been fine for her if eaten in the raw state!

> -Tiffany

>

> jerushy1944 <no_reply > wrote:

> We could flood his inbox with messages. However, my husband

always said (and it wasn't original with him), " A man convinced

against his will is of the same opinion still. " Wouldn't hurt to try,

though.

> Tommie

> http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

>

> In rawfood , Tiffany <bluelairess@> wrote:

> Thanks, Tommie, May I suggest we all visit his site and email Dr.

Bratman with the posts we've made regarding his essay? I know I am.

In fact, I could include a link to our group home page, asking him to

view our subject replies. But it's not guaranteed he'd do that;

doctors are 'too busy' to do what they don't feel like doing. So

maybe we should email him separately?

> -Tiffany

[Guest guest]

I would imagine the author who received these e-mails would simply

understand that people who are actively engaged in this type of

extreme eating behavior would be in denial about it-- no one would

think we would recognize ourselves that easily. As a wanna-be raw

foodist (I don't have the willpower, nor the TIME, to cook all raw),

I'm also very aware that this tendency in myself is not terribly

balanced, but rather is an extreme. I think it would be a healthy

thing if raw foodists could recognize that they're a bit kooky and

extreme. Orthorexic and proud of it! But it's hard to be a true

believer and be able to see something objectively at the same

time... Same goes for any dogma (religious, dietary, political, etc).

 

Kristen

 

 

 

rawfood , jerushy1944 <no_reply wrote:

>

> We could flood his inbox with messages. However, my husband always

> said (and it wasn't original with him), " A man convinced against

his

> will is of the same opinion still. " Wouldn't hurt to try, though.

>

> Tommie

> http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

>

> rawfood , Tiffany <bluelairess@> wrote:

> >

> > Thanks, Tommie,

> > May I suggest we all visit his site and email Dr. Bratman with

> the posts we've made regarding his essay? I know I am. In fact,

I

> could include a link to our group home page, asking him to view

our

> subject replies. But it's not guaranteed he'd do that; doctors

> are 'too busy' to do what they don't feel like doing. So maybe we

> should email him separately?

> > -Tiffany

> >

> > jerushy1944 <no_reply > wrote:

> > The original essay by the doctor who coined the

term " orthoexia

> nervosa " is here>> http://www.orthorexia.com/index.php?page=essay.

I

> don't think he has it quite right but everyone is entitled to an

> opinion. I don't think I would sit down and eat what he did and

still

> > feel good--physically or mentally.

> > Tommie

>

[Guest guest]

You're right, Kristen. We are a proud group and not easily swayed by

the opinions of people who haven't been successful at it. I'll be the

first to admit that I'm weird--my children would agree--but my

" weirdness " has cured me of many aches and pains, and I haven't been

sick in months which is highly unusual for me. Plus I have lost 54

pounds _with_ hypothyroidism. Your statement that you don't have the

willpower or the time to cook all raw is a mis-statement. It doesn't

take willpower to stay raw if you go about it systematically and you

don't " cook " if you are eating raw. As for the time to prepare a raw

meal, it doesn't take much at all unless you are making the recipes

that are popular on this forum and many others. It hardly takes any

time at all to peel a banana, make a green smoothie, or toss a salad.

It's what you _want_ to do that you end up doing. If you really want

to eat raw, you will, and if you do, you will reap the rewards. As for

sending an e-mail to the author of the essay, I have better things to

do and I'm the one who quoted my husband as saying, " A man convinced

against his will is of the same opinion still. " I don't think anyone

is going to make him change his mind.

 

Tommie

http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

 

rawfood , " kmdaven " <kmdaven wrote:

>

> I would imagine the author who received these e-mails would simply

> understand that people who are actively engaged in this type of

> extreme eating behavior would be in denial about it-- no one would

> think we would recognize ourselves that easily. As a wanna-be raw

> foodist (I don't have the willpower, nor the TIME, to cook all raw),

> I'm also very aware that this tendency in myself is not terribly

> balanced, but rather is an extreme. I think it would be a healthy

> thing if raw foodists could recognize that they're a bit kooky and

> extreme. Orthorexic and proud of it! But it's hard to be a true

> believer and be able to see something objectively at the same

> time... Same goes for any dogma (religious, dietary, political, etc

).

>

> Kristen

>

>

>

> rawfood , jerushy1944 <no_reply@> wrote:

> >

> > We could flood his inbox with messages. However, my husband always

> > said (and it wasn't original with him), " A man convinced against

> his

> > will is of the same opinion still. " Wouldn't hurt to try, though.

> >

> > Tommie

> > http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

[Guest guest]

But I guess part of my point is that he's RIGHT.. .not that we

should make him change his mind. I have no doubt that the author of

these articles (there are several out there) would agree that eating

more raw food is really good for people, and that the SAD diet is

bad news. But when you eat ALL raw food and don't let a bite of

cooked food pass your lips, well, it's an extreme behavior. It's

weird. It's orthorexic. Certain vegans, and other extreme diets, are

also in that direction. But my point is that SO WHAT, I mean, it

takes all kinds to make the world and if certain people choose to go

to an extreme, more power to them. At least raw foodists (or hard-

core vegans) aren't extreme in ways other dogmas are, like certain

religious wackos for instance or people who choose extreme violence.

Some dogmas are better than others. Some people need to move toward

the extreme in order to help themselves-- like in your case, losing

weight despite hypothyroidism and curing various ailments. That

doesn't mean it's a normal, mentally balanced approach. It just

means it's the approach that attracted you , for whatever reason,

and that works for you.

 

As for my personal situation, that was a rather poor choice of

words -- " cooking " raw foods! Hah! Of course I meant " cook " in the

sense of " prepare " rather than " heat " ... and I do find it much

easier to put on some whole wheat pasta or steam some rice with

veggies than spend so much time making these delicious raw dishes.

SOme of them require so much forethought (soaking, for example). I

know some of it is simple-- doesn't take much work to put some

bananas, nuts and spinach in a blender, I guess --but I've got 3

kids under age 10 and it's hard to convince them raw foods dishes

are A) yummy and B) filling. But we try, here and there, and maybe

someday we'll be more raw than cooked. In my case, I just don't feel

right forcing my orthorexic fascinations on the entire family (at

least not 3 meals a day every day)! But it will get easier if I can

find money for the tools (a good juicer, a good dehydrator, etc)

 

Kristen

 

rawfood , jerushy1944 <no_reply wrote:

>

> You're right, Kristen. We are a proud group and not easily swayed

by

> the opinions of people who haven't been successful at it. I'll be

the

> first to admit that I'm weird--my children would agree--but my

> " weirdness " has cured me of many aches and pains, and I haven't

been

> sick in months which is highly unusual for me. Plus I have lost 54

> pounds _with_ hypothyroidism. Your statement that you don't have

the

> willpower or the time to cook all raw is a mis-statement. It

doesn't

> take willpower to stay raw if you go about it systematically and

you

> don't " cook " if you are eating raw. As for the time to prepare a

raw

> meal, it doesn't take much at all unless you are making the

recipes

> that are popular on this forum and many others. It hardly takes

any

> time at all to peel a banana, make a green smoothie, or toss a

salad.

> It's what you _want_ to do that you end up doing. If you really

want

> to eat raw, you will, and if you do, you will reap the rewards. As

for

> sending an e-mail to the author of the essay, I have better things

to

> do and I'm the one who quoted my husband as saying, " A man

convinced

> against his will is of the same opinion still. " I don't think

anyone

> is going to make him change his mind.

>

> Tommie

> http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

>

> rawfood , " kmdaven " <kmdaven@> wrote:

> >

> > I would imagine the author who received these e-mails would

simply

> > understand that people who are actively engaged in this type of

> > extreme eating behavior would be in denial about it-- no one

would

> > think we would recognize ourselves that easily. As a wanna-be

raw

> > foodist (I don't have the willpower, nor the TIME, to cook all

raw),

> > I'm also very aware that this tendency in myself is not terribly

> > balanced, but rather is an extreme. I think it would be a

healthy

> > thing if raw foodists could recognize that they're a bit kooky

and

> > extreme. Orthorexic and proud of it! But it's hard to be a true

> > believer and be able to see something objectively at the same

> > time... Same goes for any dogma (religious, dietary, political,

etc

> ).

> >

> > Kristen

> >

> >

> >

> > rawfood , jerushy1944 <no_reply@> wrote:

> > >

> > > We could flood his inbox with messages. However, my husband

always

> > > said (and it wasn't original with him), " A man convinced

against

> > his

> > > will is of the same opinion still. " Wouldn't hurt to try,

though.

> > >

> > > Tommie

> > > http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kristen! I don't find the raw food lifestyle " extreme " . I find it

natural. If you stop and consider all that pasta and rice have to go

through to make them edible--that's extreme. One of the raw foodists

on Roger's private forum has a newphew they call RawBaby because he

naturally refuses to eat cooked food. If you put a toddler who has

never had anything but mother's milk at a table with cooked food and

raw fruit, invariably the child will choose the fruit. Another of

the members has children who love green smoothies. They call them

their " power " drinks and they run all over the house after they drink

them, using their superhuman powers. It's all how it's approached.

You could quietly add more and more raw food to your diet and theirs

and see the difference.

 

As far as bananas, nuts, and spinach in a blender, save the nuts for

a different meal. The bananas and spinach digest much more quickly

than the nuts and will end up fermenting because of the process being

slowed too much. The recipes are for transitioning from being

accustomed to eating complex mixtures of cooked foods to complex

mixtures of raw foods. Then, it's preferable that the complex raw

mixtures are phased out and more simple raw foods take their place.

It didn't take long for that to happen with me but everyone

progresses at their own rate. Sadly, some go back to cooked because

the recipes ARE time-consuming and complicated.

 

Think about the benefits of eating raw and whether you are doing your

family a disservice by feeding them foods that aren't made for the

human body. Whether you eat raw or not has no effect on me but it

does on you. It's totally your decision what you do. I work in a

hospital where I see, every day, what appetite can do to people.

Worst case, they die because of it. Not much better and they are

chronically ill. I have changed my way of living so I won't live the

rest of my life in doctors' offices and hospitals.

 

Good luck!

Tommie

http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

 

rawfood , " kmdaven " <kmdaven wrote:

>

> But I guess part of my point is that he's RIGHT.. .not that we

> should make him change his mind. I have no doubt that the author of

> these articles (there are several out there) would agree that

eating

> more raw food is really good for people, and that the SAD diet is

> bad news. But when you eat ALL raw food and don't let a bite of

> cooked food pass your lips, well, it's an extreme behavior. It's

> weird. It's orthorexic. Certain vegans, and other extreme diets,

are

> also in that direction. But my point is that SO WHAT, I mean, it

> takes all kinds to make the world and if certain people choose to

go

> to an extreme, more power to them. At least raw foodists (or hard-

> core vegans) aren't extreme in ways other dogmas are, like certain

> religious wackos for instance or people who choose extreme

violence.

> Some dogmas are better than others. Some people need to move toward

> the extreme in order to help themselves-- like in your case, losing

> weight despite hypothyroidism and curing various ailments. That

> doesn't mean it's a normal, mentally balanced approach. It just

> means it's the approach that attracted you , for whatever reason,

> and that works for you.

>

> As for my personal situation, that was a rather poor choice of

> words -- " cooking " raw foods! Hah! Of course I meant " cook " in the

> sense of " prepare " rather than " heat " ... and I do find it much

> easier to put on some whole wheat pasta or steam some rice with

> veggies than spend so much time making these delicious raw dishes.

> SOme of them require so much forethought (soaking, for example). I

> know some of it is simple-- doesn't take much work to put some

> bananas, nuts and spinach in a blender, I guess --but I've got 3

> kids under age 10 and it's hard to convince them raw foods dishes

> are A) yummy and B) filling. But we try, here and there, and maybe

> someday we'll be more raw than cooked. In my case, I just don't

feel

> right forcing my orthorexic fascinations on the entire family (at

> least not 3 meals a day every day)! But it will get easier if I can

> find money for the tools (a good juicer, a good dehydrator, etc)

>

> Kristen

>

[Guest guest]

" I like what you said about a banana and spinach smoothie. If I put a

banana and some spinach in my blender and blend it up, will it taste good,

or should I put something else in there too? "

 

I would suggest some water. Bananas and spinach will make banana/spinach

pudding. I generally use 2 cups water to 1 banana and a very large handful

of spinach.

 

Shari

[Guest guest]

My banana/spinach smoothie thie morning has three large bananas, half a

large bag of spinach, and a red Bartlett pear. I put in maybe 1/2 C

water. It tastes good and makes about a quart. I usually just use

bananas, spinach, and water.

 

Tommie

http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

 

rawfood , " SV " <shavig wrote:

>

> " I like what you said about a banana and spinach smoothie. If I put

a

> banana and some spinach in my blender and blend it up, will it taste

good,

> or should I put something else in there too? "

>

> I would suggest some water. Bananas and spinach will make

banana/spinach

> pudding. I generally use 2 cups water to 1 banana and a very large

handful

> of spinach.

>

> Shari

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tommie,

Do you drink the whole quart yourself? Is that what it takes to satisfy your

hunger for a few hours? You seem to eat more than I expect on the raw food diet

(remembering our bananas conversation)...if you were to cut back by almost half,

would you feel like you need more energy? Would you lose too much weight?

Thanks, Tiffany

 

jerushy1944 <no_reply > wrote:

My banana/spinach smoothie thie morning has three large bananas, half a

large bag of spinach, and a red Bartlett pear. I put in maybe 1/2 C

water. It tastes good and makes about a quart. I usually just use

bananas, spinach, and water.

Tommie

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Tommie:

i have tried multiple times to leave a comment on your blog, with no

success (I tried three times). You have no accessible email. poooh!

I would have rather sent this to you privately (i am annoyed),

especially since I am quite a few days late on reading emails, and I

don't think it is nice to mess up the list with late comments to old

emails, but.... this has to be said so I will just go on ahead anyway...

This is one great commentary, which is applicable to just about

anything in life. You go, girl!

 

Tommie wrote:

> We are a proud group and not easily swayed by

> the opinions of people who haven't been successful at it. I'll be the

> first to admit that I'm weird--my children would agree--but my

> " weirdness " has cured me of many aches and pains, and I haven't been

> sick in months which is highly unusual for me. Plus I have lost 54

> pounds _with_ hypothyroidism. Your statement that you don't have the

> willpower or the time to cook all raw is a mis-statement. It doesn't

> take willpower to stay raw if you go about it systematically and you

> don't " cook " if you are eating raw. As for the time to prepare a raw

> meal, it doesn't take much at all unless you are making the recipes

> that are popular on this forum and many others. It hardly takes any

> time at all to peel a banana, make a green smoothie, or toss a salad.

> It's what you _want_ to do that you end up doing. If you really want

> to eat raw, you will, and if you do, you will reap the rewards. As for

> sending an e-mail to the author of the essay, I have better things to

> do and I'm the one who quoted my husband as saying, " A man convinced

> against his will is of the same opinion still. " I don't think anyone

> is going to make him change his mind.

[Guest guest]

Yes, I drink the whole quart, plus I eat other things at the same

meal. If I were to cut by half, I would be getting 'way too few

calories and would probably start craving cooked. It would be

counterproductive to eat that little. My weight loss might stop

altogether because my body would think a famine had hit! As far as

energy is concerned, I'm sure my level would drop. One of my favorite

statements from Doug Graham is " Eat fruit to your heart's content! "

 

Tommie

http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

 

rawfood , Tiffany <bluelairess wrote:

>

> Hi Tommie,

> Do you drink the whole quart yourself? Is that what it takes to

satisfy your hunger for a few hours? You seem to eat more than I

expect on the raw food diet (remembering our bananas conversation)...

if you were to cut back by almost half, would you feel like you need

more energy? Would you lose too much weight?

> Thanks, Tiffany

>

> jerushy1944 <no_reply > wrote:

> My banana/spinach smoothie thie morning has three large bananas,

half a

> large bag of spinach, and a red Bartlett pear. I put in maybe 1/2 C

> water. It tastes good and makes about a quart. I usually just use

> bananas, spinach, and water.

> Tommie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, Margaret! I have to approve all comments on my blog before they

publish. I set it up that way after I got some " spam-like " comments

that I didn't want. There have been only two comments since then that

I haven't approved for publication. One had a person's phone number

and e-mail address. The other was out 'n out strange. I'll pick one of

yours and publish it. I do appreciate your appreciation! And I meant

every word that I wrote. I don't know if you can guess, but I am

passionate about raw food. I believe it's the answer to a lot of

illnesses. I know there are some that are inherited and some that are

caused by the environment but most are a direct result of what we put

in our mouths, chew up, and swallow. It's sad that it took 61 years

for me to figure this out, but better late than never. If I can

influence other people to do it, too, that will make it worth my

efforts.

 

Tommie

http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

 

rawfood , " Margaret Gamez " <mgamez1 wrote:

>

> Tommie:

> i have tried multiple times to leave a comment on your blog, with no

> success (I tried three times). You have no accessible email. poooh!

> I would have rather sent this to you privately (i am annoyed),

> especially since I am quite a few days late on reading emails, and I

> don't think it is nice to mess up the list with late comments to old

> emails, but.... this has to be said so I will just go on ahead

anyway...

> This is one great commentary, which is applicable to just about

> anything in life. You go, girl!

>

> Tommie wrote:

> > We are a proud group and not easily swayed by

> > the opinions of people who haven't been successful at it. I'll be

the

> > first to admit that I'm weird--my children would agree--but my

> > " weirdness " has cured me of many aches and pains, and I haven't

been

> > sick in months which is highly unusual for me. Plus I have lost 54

> > pounds _with_ hypothyroidism. Your statement that you don't have

the

> > willpower or the time to cook all raw is a mis-statement. It

doesn't

> > take willpower to stay raw if you go about it systematically and

you

> > don't " cook " if you are eating raw. As for the time to prepare a

raw

> > meal, it doesn't take much at all unless you are making the

recipes

> > that are popular on this forum and many others. It hardly takes

any

> > time at all to peel a banana, make a green smoothie, or toss a

salad.

> > It's what you _want_ to do that you end up doing. If you really

want

> > to eat raw, you will, and if you do, you will reap the rewards. As

for

> > sending an e-mail to the author of the essay, I have better things

to

> > do and I'm the one who quoted my husband as saying, " A man

convinced

> > against his will is of the same opinion still. " I don't think

anyone

> > is going to make him change his mind.

>