Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 I would just watch baby for signs of detoxing too quickly. If she starts getting more fussy than usual, gets a rash, etc. then you can just back off or even stop. I think as long as you pay close attention, you could at least try it. If you haven't already, come join this group set up specifically for pregnant and nursing moms: RawPregnancy/ Cindy I am breastfeeding my 7 1/2 month old daughter and am wondering if it is safe to do the master cleanse. My milk supply is well established, obviously. What do you guys think? I am wondering if it will help me kick these darn cravings that I unfortunatly have given in to more than I would like to admit. Amanda -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.3/374 - Release 6/23/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Only do it if you wish to toxify the milk. You need never use force of any kind against yourself or your organism. The cravings you are experiencing are not caused by a master-cleanse deficiency. You would serve yourself and your child far better to stop looking for a magic bullet or a " cure " , and start looking for the real cause of your cravings. I do not know you, but for some reason I sense that your cause lies, at least in part, in emotions, not in your diet. You cannot resolve old, stored pain, sadness, fear, anger, etc. by changing what you eat; you can only do so by addressing these issues directly. If you wish to discuss further, I invite you to continue this discussion at your leisure. Best, Elchanan _____ rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of Amanda Monday, July 17, 2006 7:38 PM rawfood [Raw Food] Breastfeeding and the master cleanse I am breastfeeding my 7 1/2 month old daughter and am wondering if it is safe to do the master cleanse. My milk supply is well established, obviously. What do you guys think? I am wondering if it will help me kick these darn cravings that I unfortunatly have given in to more than I would like to admit. Amanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 I'm sorry, but why in the name of heaven would you ever choose to use your baby as a way to monitor yourself????? This is a truly destructive idea, in my opinion! Elchanan _____ rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of pruegert Tuesday, July 18, 2006 6:50 AM rawfood RE: [Raw Food] Breastfeeding and the master cleanse I would just watch baby for signs of detoxing too quickly. If she starts getting more fussy than usual, gets a rash, etc. then you can just back off or even stop. I think as long as you pay close attention, you could at least try it. If you haven't already, come join this group set up specifically for pregnant and nursing moms: http://groups. <RawPregnancy/> RawPregnancy/ Cindy I am breastfeeding my 7 1/2 month old daughter and am wondering if it is safe to do the master cleanse. My milk supply is well established, obviously. What do you guys think? I am wondering if it will help me kick these darn cravings that I unfortunatly have given in to more than I would like to admit. Amanda -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.3/374 - Release 6/23/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 Have YOU ever nursed a baby? It's very easy to tell when something that you put in your body bothers them or not! I'm sorry, but why in the name of heaven would you ever choose to use your baby as a way to monitor yourself????? This is a truly destructive idea, in my opinion! Elchanan -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.3/374 - Release 6/23/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 What I am saying is that is you monitor yourself well, you need not put your baby through that experience. We know in advance that a cleanse of this sort will toxify the milk. Why inflict " discovering it anew " upon the baby? That seems altogether cruel to me. Elchanan rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of pruegert Tuesday, July 18, 2006 9:38 AM rawfood RE: [Raw Food] Breastfeeding and the master cleanse Have YOU ever nursed a baby? It's very easy to tell when something that you put in your body bothers them or not! I'm sorry, but why in the name of heaven would you ever choose to use your baby as a way to monitor yourself????? This is a truly destructive idea, in my opinion! Elchanan -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.3/374 - Release 6/23/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 I nursed two and it was impossible for me to tell if my food bothered them or not. They always sucked with the same great appetite. Elen pruegert wrote: >Have YOU ever nursed a baby? It's very easy to tell when something that you >put in your body bothers them or not! > > > >I'm sorry, but why in the name of heaven would you ever choose to use your >baby as a way to >monitor yourself????? This is a truly destructive idea, in my opinion! >Elchanan >-- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 " Only do it if you wish to toxify the milk. " This is absurd. Of course I would never want to toxify my milk. I know a lot of people have had success with the cleanse and I merely wanted to know if it would be safe for my baby. Obviously from your response you believe it would be harmful. I would never want to jeopardize my child's health, so I will not do the cleanse. Thank you for your insight. Amanda " INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo rawfood Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:58:53 AM RE: [Raw Food] Breastfeeding and the master cleanse Only do it if you wish to toxify the milk. You need never use force of any kind against yourself or your organism. The cravings you are experiencing are not caused by a master-cleanse deficiency. You would serve yourself and your child far better to stop looking for a magic bullet or a " cure " , and start looking for the real cause of your cravings. I do not know you, but for some reason I sense that your cause lies, at least in part, in emotions, not in your diet. You cannot resolve old, stored pain, sadness, fear, anger, etc. by changing what you eat; you can only do so by addressing these issues directly. If you wish to discuss further, I invite you to continue this discussion at your leisure. Best, Elchanan _____ rawfood@ .com [rawfood@ .com] On Behalf Of Amanda Monday, July 17, 2006 7:38 PM rawfood@ .com [Raw Food] Breastfeeding and the master cleanse I am breastfeeding my 7 1/2 month old daughter and am wondering if it is safe to do the master cleanse. My milk supply is well established, obviously. What do you guys think? I am wondering if it will help me kick these darn cravings that I unfortunatly have given in to more than I would like to admit. Amanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 The point is that the cleanse itself is toxic to you. You cannot reduce the acidity in your body by adding acid to your body, that's simply not how things work. Nor can you bring peacefulness to your system by loading it with very strong stimulants. Will these stimulants trigger a response fro your body? Absolutely! Will that response lead you toward sustainable health. No. The body cleanses itself. All externally applied " cleanses " constitute the application of force, not love, to one's own body. If you truly wish to send your body a message from your conscious mind, that you are ready to support your body in its cleansing activity, then eat a monodiet of watermelon for several days. (Seeded, organic preferred.) You'll likely be VERY delighted with your experience. And you'll be flooding your system with oxygen, water, fuel (simple sugars), and alkalizing minerals. These are the four " core " nutrients we need, in a physical sense. If you wish a second food, then eat some tender greens -- lettuce of any variety -- in the evening. Using an approach such as this, you will have the opportunity to come face-to-face with yourself. For example, you will have the opportunity to experience how your body really digests and eliminates the most simple of foods; you'll experience shifts in your urination as your body gains hydration; you'll experience cleansing as your body frees energy from digestion and cleansing of new trash, to cleansing of older, stored trash. And you'll be acting toward yourself -- and toward your baby -- with the gentleness and lovingkindness you both deserve. Best, Elchanan _____ rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of Amanda Feagin Tuesday, July 18, 2006 11:24 AM rawfood Re: [Raw Food] Breastfeeding and the master cleanse " Only do it if you wish to toxify the milk. " This is absurd. Of course I would never want to toxify my milk. I know a lot of people have had success with the cleanse and I merely wanted to know if it would be safe for my baby. Obviously from your response you believe it would be harmful. I would never want to jeopardize my child's health, so I will not do the cleanse. Thank you for your insight. Amanda " INFO @ Vibrant Life " <VLinfo (AT) earthlink (DOT) <VLinfo%40earthlink.net> net> rawfood@ <rawfood%40> .com Tuesday, July 18, 2006 8:58:53 AM RE: [Raw Food] Breastfeeding and the master cleanse Only do it if you wish to toxify the milk. You need never use force of any kind against yourself or your organism. The cravings you are experiencing are not caused by a master-cleanse deficiency. You would serve yourself and your child far better to stop looking for a magic bullet or a " cure " , and start looking for the real cause of your cravings. I do not know you, but for some reason I sense that your cause lies, at least in part, in emotions, not in your diet. You cannot resolve old, stored pain, sadness, fear, anger, etc. by changing what you eat; you can only do so by addressing these issues directly. If you wish to discuss further, I invite you to continue this discussion at your leisure. Best, Elchanan _____ rawfood@ .com [rawfood@ .com] On Behalf Of Amanda Monday, July 17, 2006 7:38 PM rawfood@ .com [Raw Food] Breastfeeding and the master cleanse I am breastfeeding my 7 1/2 month old daughter and am wondering if it is safe to do the master cleanse. My milk supply is well established, obviously. What do you guys think? I am wondering if it will help me kick these darn cravings that I unfortunatly have given in to more than I would like to admit. Amanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 18, 2006 Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 I understand your concern, but most people who say this have never had the experience themselves. Lab tests and actual real-life experience are two different things. While I am not necessarily *recommending* the Master Cleanse while breastfeeding, what I was saying was that some babies are more sensitive than others. One of mine was collicky just because I was drinking well water at the time. Another one of mine was sensitive to peanut butter. I know better now, but some babies don't have problems with those things and others do. I've done short 1 or 2 day fasts while bf before, and it didn't seem to affect my babies or my supply, but some can't handle it. All I was saying was that *if* someone is going to try it, watch the baby closely to make sure he/she is handling it okay. Some moms may not detox as quickly and may not have as many toxins in the milk. Other moms may have more, and some babies can't handle it as well. It's all on an individual basis, you can't honestly say that you know for a fact it will effect every baby negatively. What I am saying is that is you monitor yourself well, you need not put your baby through that experience. We know in advance that a cleanse of this sort will toxify the milk. Why inflict " discovering it anew " upon the baby? That seems altogether cruel to me. Elchanan Have YOU ever nursed a baby? It's very easy to tell when something that you put in your body bothers them or not! I'm sorry, but why in the name of heaven would you ever choose to use your baby as a way to monitor yourself????? This is a truly destructive idea, in my opinion! Elchanan -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.3/374 - Release 6/23/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Thanks I appreciate your writing back. I understand, in principle, everything you are saying. I have no idea where your comment about lab tests comes from. I do know how this cleanse operates inside the body, and it does NOT cleanse the body, that is physiologically impossible. Rather, the body goes into overdrive cleansing the " cleanse " . But here is the real problem with this little breastfeeding experiment: When (not if) the cleanse does " sour " the breast milk, then if at that time the baby withdraws from nursing somewhat for even a day or two, it may occur that the mother's production drops. The reason is that the baby's withdrawal would constitute a physiological signal to the mother's system that weaning is in progress. Production will, in all likelihood, not rise again. This would force the baby into premature weaning, which could lead to " food allergies " and other problems, and permanently deprive the baby's body with much that the breastfeeding is intended to provide in the first place. So the baby is shortchanged. So you see (hopefully), this isn't colick, this is an entirely different and fundamentally instinctual issue. In addition, I know women who are in their fifties and sixties now, and whose breastfeeding of THEIR children was interrupted decades ago for one reason or another, usually because they followed some very poor advice about something. It is quite clear to me that some of these women have never entirely forgiven themselves, nor fully let go of a certain sense of guilt or shame they feel, for having allowed the breastfeeding process to be cut short. One can, of course, choose to risk living with something like that for 80 years (or whatever period). But why? If you (or anyone in the group) is genuinely interested in WHY the master cleanse is total nonsense and destructive to absolutely everyone who tries it, I shall be happy to explain in great detail. But only if some express interest, otherwise I am happy to stop here. Best to all, Elchanan rawfood [ <rawfood > rawfood ] On Behalf Of pruegert Tuesday, July 18, 2006 1:55 PM rawfood RE: [Raw Food] Breastfeeding and the master cleanse I understand your concern, but most people who say this have never had the experience themselves. Lab tests and actual real-life experience are two different things. While I am not necessarily *recommending* the Master Cleanse while breastfeeding, what I was saying was that some babies are more sensitive than others. One of mine was collicky just because I was drinking well water at the time. Another one of mine was sensitive to peanut butter. I know better now, but some babies don't have problems with those things and others do. I've done short 1 or 2 day fasts while bf before, and it didn't seem to affect my babies or my supply, but some can't handle it. All I was saying was that *if* someone is going to try it, watch the baby closely to make sure he/she is handling it okay. Some moms may not detox as quickly and may not have as many toxins in the milk. Other moms may have more, and some babies can't handle it as well. It's all on an individual basis, you can't honestly say that you know for a fact it will effect every baby negatively. What I am saying is that is you monitor yourself well, you need not put your baby through that experience. We know in advance that a cleanse of this sort will toxify the milk. Why inflict " discovering it anew " upon the baby? That seems altogether cruel to me. Elchanan Have YOU ever nursed a baby? It's very easy to tell when something that you put in your body bothers them or not! I'm sorry, but why in the name of heaven would you ever choose to use your baby as a way to monitor yourself????? This is a truly destructive idea, in my opinion! Elchanan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 As you become more " in tune " with your body, it is easier to tell what/if something bothers you. And the *easiest* way to tell if something bothers the baby is not by their appetite, but if they have a reaction. Sometimes that might be the appetite, but it can also be gas, constipation, diahrrea, rash, more fussy than usual or other sudden change in behavior, etc. If you don't see any of these things but are sure something is bothering the baby, I definitely would not recommend any kind of cleanse at all. You really have to be careful and know how much you are safely able to do. Having said that (I know I'm going to be jumped on again for " using baby as a monitor " ), personally, I prefer whole foods and water. I almost never do cleanses myself. In the previous replies I was simply saying that *if* you are going to do a cleanse, watch your baby. Also use common sense and your God-given instincts! Cindy I nursed two and it was impossible for me to tell if my food bothered them or not. They always sucked with the same great appetite. Elen -- Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/391 - Release 7/18/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Thank you!!!!! Elchanan rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of Elen Morell Tuesday, July 18, 2006 11:07 AM rawfood Re: [Raw Food] Breastfeeding and the master cleanse I nursed two and it was impossible for me to tell if my food bothered them or not. They always sucked with the same great appetite. Elen pruegert wrote: >Have YOU ever nursed a baby? It's very easy to tell when something that >you put in your body bothers them or not! > > > >I'm sorry, but why in the name of heaven would you ever choose to use >your baby as a way to monitor yourself????? This is a truly destructive >idea, in my opinion! >Elchanan >-- > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 To people in the RawSchool group: I am bringing over part of a thread from the RawFood group, that others may participate. A nursing mother inquired about using the Master Cleanse to improve her milk. Some considerable discussion has followed about whether one can or cannot perceive the effect in the baby and therefore know whether to proceed with or halt the cleanse. Following are a few comments I share this morning. Elchanan _______________________________ I believe people are missing a fundamental point throughout this entire thread. If we know IN ADVANCE that something is toxic and will therefore impair the mother's milk, then the mother should not consume it. Discussing how, when, and to what degree the nursing baby may show a reaction represents an entirely misplaced focus. We should never use the baby's response to a thing the mother eats to monitor or indicate the efficacy of that thing. The baby is not a medical instrument, and in my opinion, to inflict this upon any baby is utterly cruel and entirely unproductive in any sense I can imagine. The Master Cleanse is toxic, through and through. Almost all people who try it have one of 2 experiences: 1. They simply " can't " make it through; or 2. They are delighted with the result and repeat the cleanse over and over again. In other words, they become hooked on the stimulants used. I have promised a longer piece on all this; for now, I wish simply to raise the issues of focus and ethical practice, as above. Elchanan PS Cindy, I do not mean to " jump on you " at all, and I greatly appreciate your intention to rely upon your natural, God-given capacities. Bravo! And I agree entirely with what you write, that we can best observe a baby's (and our own!) response to a thing in the various ways you mention. At the same time, I wish to make every effort to assure that people maintain a clear perception of what is actually occurring in this discussion. I hope you understand my intention and take nothing personally at all, for I mean nothing in any such way. I simply wish to share that no one can ever " safely " inflict the Master Cleanse upon a nursing baby (or upon anyone), we simply should not go there. Best, Elchanan rawfood [ <rawfood > rawfood ] On Behalf Of pruegert Wednesday, July 19, 2006 4:09 AM rawfood RE: [Raw Food] Breastfeeding and the master cleanse As you become more " in tune " with your body, it is easier to tell what/if something bothers you. And the *easiest* way to tell if something bothers the baby is not by their appetite, but if they have a reaction. Sometimes that might be the appetite, but it can also be gas, constipation, diahrrea, rash, more fussy than usual or other sudden change in behavior, etc. If you don't see any of these things but are sure something is bothering the baby, I definitely would not recommend any kind of cleanse at all. You really have to be careful and know how much you are safely able to do. Having said that (I know I'm going to be jumped on again for " using baby as a monitor " ), personally, I prefer whole foods and water. I almost never do cleanses myself. In the previous replies I was simply saying that *if* you are going to do a cleanse, watch your baby. Also use common sense and your God-given instincts! Cindy I nursed two and it was impossible for me to tell if my food bothered them or not. They always sucked with the same great appetite. Elen -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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