Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 I, too, have been wondering about the number of posts regarding supplements, dairy, etc. I'm new to the group, but not new to raw and was hoping to find a community of active raw foodists to draw on for support. Not that I mind a good intellectual argument on occasion or helping others get started, but is there anyone on the list that has been raw vegan for a year or more? I'm interested on how it is to sustain this lifestyle in the long term. Is there perhaps an advanced raw list somewhere? Mary Ellen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 " Natural Hygiene is a study of nature and of health. So come and share your experiences of nature in action..... " That is what it says part way down in the description of this list. But of late it is appalling what is being discussed here as healthy. I'm sorry to say but as long as we supplement our diets, take something for our allergies, put something on our hair to make it soft and shiny, add a little meat, a little fish, we are not acting in accordance with nature or the tenets of Natural Hygiene. I honestly thought this group was about supporting each other in transitioning to raw or adding more raw into our diets. That has not been the case lately. We've been supporting each other finding " cures " for this ailment or that ache and pain with outside influences. If we get out of the way and follow a true Natural Hygiene path no supplement or intervention of any sort will be needed. No, I'm not the moderator and I'll probably come under heavy fire for what I am saying, but I've watched the threads go from health oriented to " cure " based and there is no such thing as a " cure " . The definition of " cure " is to " prolong or save " and I don't think anyone here wants to prolong or save their ailments. Just my rambling Saturday thoughts - Shari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Wouldn't life be about as boring as a mono diet or one with no spices if the spice of life and individual opinion is not allowed in a discussion and people are not allowed to agree to disagree...as long as we are non-inflammatory? I personally enjoy the thoughts of those who have been around long enough to make changes in their long standing habits and experiment from the " given norm " ...and those with half a brain who can research on their own and come to their own conclusions...rather than blindly following some guru who gathers a following based on one idea. Those who can think for themselves and not employ sheeple mindsets show maturity of mind. I enjoy the spice of life. I enjoy individuality and passion as long as you keep your " liver clean " and the passion is not inflammatory ;-) If those " pure-ists " want to start their own list for mono-diets and those with no spices...why not? In the meantime, let us not think we are better than the other because we chose to use or not use. Whatever raw food and herbs make you feel better (as long as it's legal), I say go for it. Cowgirl...passionate and spicy! P.S. Although I know this list promotes raw veggies, I did enjoy hearing of how meat made you lift weights better. Interesting. I tried to cut and paste...but Shari's post wouldn't allow me SV <shavig wrote: " Natural Hygiene is a study of nature and of health. So come and share your experiences of nature in action..... " That is what it says part way down in the description of this list. But of late it is appalling what is being discussed here as healthy. I'm sorry to say but as long as we supplement our diets, take something for our allergies, put something on our hair to make it soft and shiny, add a little meat, a little fish, we are not acting in accordance with nature or the tenets of Natural Hygiene. I honestly thought this group was about supporting each other in transitioning to raw or adding more raw into our diets. That has not been the case lately. We've been supporting each other finding " cures " for this ailment or that ache and pain with outside influences. If we get out of the way and follow a true Natural Hygiene path no supplement or intervention of any sort will be needed. No, I'm not the moderator and I'll probably come under heavy fire for what I am saying, but I've watched the threads go from health oriented to " cure " based and there is no such thing as a " cure " . The definition of " cure " is to " prolong or save " and I don't think anyone here wants to prolong or save their ailments. Just my rambling Saturday thoughts - Shari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Gee thanks Diana, you have give me even more reasons to think of leaving this group. Now I'm not allowing you to express what you want about meat eating. Is it being eaten as a raw food? Great, let's hear how raw meat eating is helping his work out at the gym. I honestly thought this group is about raw food. Guess I was wrong. Think I'll stick with the winners. The folks who eat raw food and don't try to talk themselves into conventional foods or supplements, but work toward mono eating. Which may be boring to some, but it made a vast difference in my clarity and physical strength. Giving up all enervating foods increased my stamina and my lifting power at the gym. By the way, do you study the Essenes, Diana? I'm inclinded to believe Jesus was a raw food, Essene. Shari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Shari - you have been a great asset to this group. Your experience has been wonderful and I love to hear what you do. I love to hear everyone's experiences. I can pick and choose what to believe and how to " take the comments I hear. " Please don't let other comments destroy what is going on this site - diversity is important. If someone says something that you don't agree with - just delete it. I have wanted to put in my two cents many times but realized that it wouldn't really be worth it. I have enjoyed your comments and still do. Don't up and leave us! Judy On 8/19/06, SV <shavig wrote: > > Gee thanks Diana, you have give me even more reasons to think of leaving > this group. Now I'm not allowing you to express what you want about meat > eating. Is it being eaten as a raw food? Great, let's hear how raw meat > eating is helping his work out at the gym. > > I honestly thought this group is about raw food. Guess I was wrong. Think > I'll stick with the winners. The folks who eat raw food and don't try to > talk themselves into conventional foods or supplements, but work toward mono > eating. Which may be boring to some, but it made a vast difference in my > clarity and physical strength. Giving up all enervating foods increased my > stamina and my lifting power at the gym. > > By the way, do you study the Essenes, Diana? I'm inclinded to believe > Jesus was a raw food, Essene. > > Shari > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Meant to say " Jesus was a raw food eater " . Not raw food! Shari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Thanks, Judy. This is something I like to do, but when all I hear is " yeah, but... " . It's rather like trying to work with an alcoholic. (I've been in recovery for 19.5 years.) I will talk to anyone interested in recovering, but not when they are drunk. They cannot hear anything being said. When they are just a little sober and desperate is the best time to get them to accept the fact they have a problem and there is a solution - AA. In this case there is a solution to all my problems today and it's called Natural Hygiene, mono eating, whatever term you choose to call a natural way of eating. When we choose to eat " just a little cooked food " or " just some fish " or " I only take it when.... " we are perpetuating the believe that we know better than our body. I, personally, do not believe I know better than my body or my creator what is best for me. If I was standing in front of you screaming " don't step in front of that bus! " . Would you? I think not. Well, when I eat cooked, processed, very flavorful spices, or even supplements my body screams at me " don't do that " ! And if you can't hear it in your own body, you are deaf. Deaf in the sense that you have dulled your own intuition for so long you cannot hear or feel when you have eaten or taken something that is not an optimal food. I'm not saying I will never eat onions or garlic again, I'm just saying that for me it makes my body scream! And I'm tired of my body being pissed off at me. I choose to eat simply so that others may simply eat. And I, for the life of me, do not understand how my body can derive any goodness from a pill that has been so processed as to be compressed into such a tiny shape. Or how my living body can get any nourishment out of green grass powder (yes, I've taken them, I am even a Health Minister from Hallelujah Acres and a Director with the AIM company, both places advocate a green barley juice). My living, breathing, blood pumping body can only utilize fresh, whole, sun ripened fruit to repair and build a better me. For me that is so simple, why muck it up with grains, sprouts, dried fruits, and dead supplements? It takes energy to digest everything and personally I would prefer to eat the live foods that take little energy for digestion and save what is left for things I like to do, rock climbing, mountain climbing, sky diving, challenge course running, triathlons, all of these things started after I was 50! And my times have improved on my tris when I gave up the dried green juice stuff!! Shari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Bravo, Shari - like I said - I enjoy your comments. Not everyone has such incredible insights to be able to listen to their bodies as well as you can. It's a process - so continue to share what you do so it just might help others -and don't forget to just let those who are still learning - learn. I am sure it took you a long time to " come to where you are " . It might be that it takes others longer to learn. You have really mastered so much - I commend you on it. Judy On 8/19/06, SV <shavig wrote: > > Thanks, Judy. This is something I like to do, but when all I hear is > " yeah, but... " . It's rather like trying to work with an alcoholic. (I've > been in recovery for 19.5 years.) I will talk to anyone interested in > recovering, but not when they are drunk. They cannot hear anything being > said. When they are just a little sober and desperate is the best time to > get them to accept the fact they have a problem and there is a solution - > AA. In this case there is a solution to all my problems today and it's > called Natural Hygiene, mono eating, whatever term you choose to call a > natural way of eating. > > When we choose to eat " just a little cooked food " or " just some fish " or > " I only take it when.... " we are perpetuating the believe that we know > better than our body. I, personally, do not believe I know better than my > body or my creator what is best for me. If I was standing in front of you > screaming " don't step in front of that bus! " . Would you? I think not. Well, > when I eat cooked, processed, very flavorful spices, or even supplements my > body screams at me " don't do that " ! And if you can't hear it in your own > body, you are deaf. Deaf in the sense that you have dulled your own > intuition for so long you cannot hear or feel when you have eaten or taken > something that is not an optimal food. > > I'm not saying I will never eat onions or garlic again, I'm just saying > that for me it makes my body scream! And I'm tired of my body being pissed > off at me. I choose to eat simply so that others may simply eat. And I, for > the life of me, do not understand how my body can derive any goodness from a > pill that has been so processed as to be compressed into such a tiny shape. > Or how my living body can get any nourishment out of green grass powder > (yes, I've taken them, I am even a Health Minister from Hallelujah Acres and > a Director with the AIM company, both places advocate a green barley juice). > > > My living, breathing, blood pumping body can only utilize fresh, whole, > sun ripened fruit to repair and build a better me. For me that is so simple, > why muck it up with grains, sprouts, dried fruits, and dead supplements? > > It takes energy to digest everything and personally I would prefer to eat > the live foods that take little energy for digestion and save what is left > for things I like to do, rock climbing, mountain climbing, sky diving, > challenge course running, triathlons, all of these things started after I > was 50! And my times have improved on my tris when I gave up the dried green > juice stuff!! > > > Shari > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of chicwriter Saturday, August 19, 2006 9:02 AM rawfood Re: [Raw Food] purpose of this list Not that I mind a good intellectual argument on occasion or helping others get started, but is there anyone on the list that has been raw vegan for a year or more? I'm interested on how it is to sustain this lifestyle in the long term. Is there perhaps an advanced raw list somewhere? Mary Ellen _____________ Yes, Mary Ellen there are definitely people here who live happily as raw vegans. And you might also consider two other groups, PathOfHealth and Rawschool. Both groups focus more on Natural Hygiene and related approaches. Elchanan <http://geo./serv?s=97359714 & grpId=5520395 & grpspId=1600015482 & msgId=249\ 81 & stime=1156003 524 & nc1=3848581 & nc2=3848647 & nc3=3848533> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 I know tempers are hot and I truly hope they calm down . There is much knowledge here to be shared! And thanks to everyone for all their input! This had me ROFL... >Meant to say Jesus was a raw food eater and not raw food>> ) Thanks for the good laugh Shari! God Bless! Sharie Alabama Zone 7-8 http://sunflower-meadows-sharie.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 *Very well put Judy!!!* >>>>>>> Bravo, Shari - like I said - I enjoy your comments. Not everyone has such incredible insights to be able to listen to their bodies as well as you can. It's a process - so continue to share what you do so it just might help others -and don't forget to just let those who are still learning - learn. I am sure it took you a long time to " come to where you are " . It might be that it takes others longer to learn. You have really mastered so much - I commend you on it. Judy >>>>>>>>>> -- Sharie Alabama Zone 7-8 http://sunflower-meadows-sharie.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 It may mention Natural Hygiene, but isn't exclusively NH, is it? This is a raw vegan group, with a HN bend (perhaps) in my opinion. Kristi On Aug 19, 2006, at 10:45 AM, SV wrote: > " Natural Hygiene is a study of nature and of health. So come and > share your experiences of nature in action..... " > > That is what it says part way down in the description of this list. > But of late it is appalling what is being discussed here as > healthy. I'm sorry to say but as long as we supplement our diets, > take something for our allergies, put something on our hair to make > it soft and shiny, add a little meat, a little fish, we are not > acting in accordance with nature or the tenets of Natural Hygiene. > > I honestly thought this group was about supporting each other in > transitioning to raw or adding more raw into our diets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Hi Shari, You never know, you may be influencing another member in a positive way. I joined this list a few months ago, (went raw mid-June) and I remember first reading your post about using coconut oil on the skin. I needed new moisturizer so went the health food store and bought organic raw coconut oil and have been using it ever since, and loving it. I kept reading your posts and was curious about " Natural Hygiene " . A few weeks ago I went to rawschool.com mentioned on one of your posts, and after reading all about it, said " THIS is what I was looking for " . It just made the most sense to me. I now belong to the new PathofHealth group and am trying to fully transition to that lifestyle. So, please keep up the good work because there is always someone out there who may not be posting, but is reading your messages and learning. Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Phew!! I thought I was on the wrong planet! Thanks so much for this, Susan. I really do appreciate what you said. Just for the record, though, I never have expected anyone to eat the way I do. I have offered what I have learned and others have interpreted it as a slam to the way they are eating. I can only deduce that those folks are feeling guilty about their food choices. When there is something bothering YOU about ME, it's probably something reflecting back at you. Something you have seen in me makes you uncomfortable. I remember John Robbins saying, " what are you going to tell your children when they grow up and say 'why didn't you make us quit eating meat and drinking milk? You KNEW they were bad.' " I just think that when we know what's right or correct for us and we do the opposite it becomes very uncomfortable for us whether we know it consciously or subconsciously. Make any sense? Shari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 19, 2006 Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 Hi Mary Ellen, I belong to a couple of much more natural hygiene focused . One is Path of Health and the other is Rawschool. I've been raw for two plus years. :-) All the best, Audrey www.rawhealing.com >chicwriter >rawfood >rawfood >Re: [Raw Food] purpose of this list >Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:01:34 EDT > >I, too, have been wondering about the number of posts regarding >supplements, dairy, etc. I'm new to the group, but not new to raw >and was hoping to find a community of active raw foodists to draw >on for support. > >Not that I mind a good intellectual argument on occasion or >helping others get started, but is there anyone on the list that >has been raw vegan for a year or more? I'm interested on how it >is to sustain this lifestyle in the long term. Is there perhaps an >advanced raw list somewhere? > >Mary Ellen > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 " Just for the record, though, I never have expected anyone to eat the way I do. I have offered what I have learned and others have interpreted it as a slam to the way they are eating. I can only deduce that those folks are feeling guilty about their food choices. When there is something bothering YOU about ME, it's probably something reflecting back at you. Something you have seen in me makes you uncomfortable. " Wow...what a self-righteous and flippant way of totally negating the feelings and concerns of others. It's funny how that comment works for you as a reason why others have a problem...but does it also apply to you as to why you have a problem with others voicing their opinions and questions on this board? Does it apply to you as to why you feel that if the subject isn't pertaining to exactly what YOU think is important in the raw foods arena that you become irritated, complaining, and threaten to leave if the subject doesn't get back to exactly what is important to YOU? What I'm curious about is why everyone is being so appeasing to you, as if they are afraid that you will leave and their journey will not be able to continue without your input. I don't think it's good for any of us to feel that our journey is more important than the next person's, or that only one person's needs should be addressed. As has been stated, there are many people trying to successfully live raw lives. Everyone is not 100%, everyone has not been on this journey for 10 years, everyone does not know everything that there is to know about the what, when, and hows of a raw lifestyle. How dare ANYONE assume that someone is purposefully not moving forward or intentionally leading the " group " away from it's " goal " just because they are asking questions to which one person feels they already have the answers! How snobbish and self-righteous! Remember that most people, unfortunately, do not become interested in raw foods until they have a health crisis. Therefore, there will MOST DEFINITELY be questions about " cures " and " supplements " and probably some other issues to which you " veteran " raw foodists and natural hygenists snub your noses. But people are here to learn and receive help. That is why this whole thing started with A QUESTION. No one " infiltrated " the group and swore that supplements were a must, or tried to sell anyone anything. They asked a question. And whether or not that person has been completely raw, partially raw, or has not started raw at all is no business of anyone here. The objective of this group is to teach and learn...to SHARE information. Who has the right to muzzle ANYONE here on the basis of what they personally believe is important?!!! I think that those people who are applauding Shari should really look at how selfish her accusations and threats truly are. Think about how they affect the people who are new here, who have questions that they have not yet asked, and who now will think again about getting those answers for fear of creating a stir, or being considered unworth of this board, or whatever other judgemental thoughts the veterans might have about the beginners. If any veteran here is not hearing from other veterans regarding how to maintain their raw lifestyle, could it be because they don't ask the question? The newbies ask the questions because they are trying to get where some of the longterm raw foodists are. Please remember that and withhold your contempt and judgements long enough to let raw foodists of all stages get the information that they need in order to create wellness for themselves. And veterans, if you need help, ask for it. Don't blame others for not giving you information that you haven't requested. No one here is a mindreader, and only the questions that get asked get answered. ANYONE HERE WHO IS NEW TO THIS JOURNEY...please do not be turned off by the selfish and judgemental ways of some of the people here...and elsewhere for that matter who feel that they have this thing down pat. Real raw foodists and natural hygenists understand that optimum health and wellness also includes a stress-free lifestyle, compassion for others, and the willingness to help ALL people...regardless of race, color, religion, or what they put in their mouths during their last meal. If you want help, you are in the right place. If you have a question, ask it, no matter what anyone here says. If your question pertains to supplements, raw foods...including raw meat ask it. I'm sure that you already know that meat is not a part of the raw vegan lifestyle, but common sense should tell us that it doesn't mean that you'll never have a question about meat again in your life. If your questions is about the dangers of cooked foods or meats specifically, ask it. This is how you learn, this is how you grow, and the more you know, the more you will make the changes that are necessary to being totally healthy. Speak up, and find your truth. Saja rawfood , " SV " <shavig wrote: > > Phew!! I thought I was on the wrong planet! Thanks so much for this, Susan. I really do appreciate what you said. > > Just for the record, though, I never have expected anyone to eat the way I do. I have offered what I have learned and others have interpreted it as a slam to the way they are eating. I can only deduce that those folks are feeling guilty about their food choices. When there is something bothering YOU about ME, it's probably something reflecting back at you. Something you have seen in me makes you uncomfortable. > > I remember John Robbins saying, " what are you going to tell your children when they grow up and say 'why didn't you make us quit eating meat and drinking milk? You KNEW they were bad.' " I just think that when we know what's right or correct for us and we do the opposite it becomes very uncomfortable for us whether we know it consciously or subconsciously. > > Make any sense? > > Shari > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Kristi wrote: > It may mention Natural Hygiene, but isn't exclusively NH, is it? > This is a raw vegan group, with a HN bend (perhaps) in > my opinion. I have been reading this list from the beginning, and I have discovered, and made files of discussions on, many different opinions. As nearly as I can tell, natural hygiene is " a good idea " , and you can do it if you think it is " a good idea " . From what I understand of this list is it is about " raw vegan " food and lifestyle. That would include everything... people who eat any kind of raw food in any combination, people who eat raw food prepared in any kind of way, people who have rules how to prepare raw food, people who have rules about what raw food to eat, people who have rules about which raw foods to eat when, in what quantities, in what combinations, and so on. Natural hygiene is a very strong strain in raw foodism. There are files in the list files on discussions and various issues about natural hygiene. This subject has been bandied about often over the 8 years of the existence of this list. What I have seen, in my nutrition studies, is that natural hygiene is championed by many cooked food people, and even Ann Wigmore gives a natural hygiene chart which includes meat(!!!). This past week, I have been looking over my natural hygiene books and find that most of them do not eschew meat, nor cooked food. At the same time, I have been taking a course at Raw Soul in New York City. The teacher, Lillian Butler, who studied with Ann Wigmore, espouses natural hygiene. I'm confused, often, however, when the supposedly " hard-core " natural hygienists give you charts that say you can combine this and this but not that and this, and then hand you recipes which combine this and that. Raw food cookbooks freely mix foods seemingly without regard to where they sit on the natural hygiene charts. Chet Day's article on T.C. Fry opened up my eyes quite a bit. (google it and read it) As for me, I am going to eat what seems to be right when it seems to be right. I have weathered a few " announcements " of what is right or wrong to eat since I've been on the list. I'm still eating carrot tops when they come attached to my carrots. I haven't died yet. Perhaps it is because I never put lemon on them. The Wiccan by-law sure does work here: Do as ye will, but harm none. If you eat what you think is right, and it doesn't make you sick, then just keep on doing it. If it makes you sick, stop eating it. Duh. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 " but does it also apply to you as to why you have a problem with others voicing their opinions and questions on this board? " Sure does. How do you think I learned it? When something disturbs me, the disturbance is within me. And only until I can accept life on life's terms, I cannot be happy. This disucssion is my " life's terms " today. Sorry it bothers you so very much. I'm not upset or angry in any way. You seem to be quite distraught, however. Shari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 I think going 'raw' is different for everyonone. Some jump right in and go 100% others transiition and maybe aren't ready to go 100% yet. I think it can also be a learning process. Maybe they still thought supplements, etc were a good idea until maybe they read some posts on a forum like this one. This should, only in my opinion,be a place for anyone to have an opinion, get some feedback that isn't negative and be able to learn and grow. chicwriter wrote: I, too, have been wondering about the number of posts regarding supplements, dairy, etc. I'm new to the group, but not new to raw and was hoping to find a community of active raw foodists to draw on for support. Not that I mind a good intellectual argument on occasion or helping others get started, but is there anyone on the list that has been raw vegan for a year or more? I'm interested on how it is to sustain this lifestyle in the long term. Is there perhaps an advanced raw list somewhere? Mary Ellen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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