SADtoRAW

[Guest guest]

This is not just the food world, this is any arena where

one purports to be knowledgeable or a specialist.

 

If the site owner was selling something--consultations,

classes, products, etc., I wouldn't complain. I would either

buy the product if I found her credible or I would move on.

What concerned me was recommending her site for her

experiences, journey, recipes, whatever, when this

" journey " has gotten her absolutely nowhere (except

maybe fatter). It's not invalid. It's just not a healthy

role model " is all I'm sayin'. "

 

By the way, $25 for a raw food class? Why did I not know

you were out there??? My local raw food " guru " charges a

minimum of $95 per person for anything that requires

her presence. The one and only class I took with her,

she began her lecture with, " I've been so busy lately

with important things, I don't really know what I'm

going to say today... "

 

Mary Ellen

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

August 24, says it's her first day without a cigarette. Hey, at least she's

honest. A whole lot more than " a number of raw foodists out there that have

great things to contribute--from experience, not just theory " . I have

discovered a lot of them have not been thorougly honest with the public about

their " rawness " over the years.

 

And why shouldn't she ask for $? Doug Graham charges upward of $600 an hour to

talk to you. As does Roz, Rhio, any of the people in the raw world charge to

support themselves. I really don't have a problem with her asking for

donations. She's putting her time and effort into a form of education. Why is

it that when a " regular " person decides to do something and asks money for it we

balk? Just because she's not been raw for 25 years or she doesn't have the

" formal " raw education a lot of them have, she should be doing this for free? I

know that I have spent thousands of dollars traveling and going to raw schools

and people still think I should be giving this away. Shoot, my washer repair

guy got his education the same way I did, hands on. I pay him, why don't I

deserve to get paid? You don't expect your newspaper to show up for free, do

you? Why should I be expected to talk to you on the phone for up to two hours

and not charge you? I could be doing a lot of other things in that two hours.

 

These are only a couple of reasons I got out of the raw food " business " last

year. Too many people too critical of my journey and too many folks too

critical of anything that has a price tag on it. I only charged $25 per person

per class and fed you an entire 4-5-or 6 course dinner. You got demonstrations,

hands on instruction, you got to eat and if there were leftovers you could take

them home. Then I would put things on my website and I too asked for

" donations " for the recipes. How many people bought? TWO! In four years!!

The website cost 6x as much as what they paid for the recipes. How many gripe

letters did I get? Over 200 and they all wanted " samples " and then they wanted

instruction and then they wanted more.

 

Sorry this turned into a rant, but this is so very typical of the raw food

world.

 

Shari

 

 

[Guest guest]

" " I've been so busy lately with important things, I don't really know what I'm

going to say today... " "

 

That's really sad. Makes it sound like you and the class were not one of the

" important things " .

 

I live north of Seattle, Washington. That might be why you didn't know about

me.

 

Shari

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Way to go, Shari! Raw! Raw! Raw!

If it is any consolation to you, the attitude that people should not

charge is rampant in a number of " alternative " communities (no need to

mention which ones)

 

Fortunately, for the people who want to have something for free (which

is not always the best way to go, BTW), there is ample information

available on the Internet at no other cost than the effort of

searching it out.

 

We pay when we want someone to hand it to us on a platter, and then

hold our hands while we digest it all. Yes, we could probably come up

with most of the information through diligent googling and copious

reading, however, if someone has already been there and done it, and

offers to hold our hand, personally, and devote a few minutes

exclusively to us, then we should be willing to pay for the time and

attention, if nothing else.

 

Yes, of course, we can get much of the same information from reading a

list such as this one, but we will never get the personal attention,

the hand-holding, or the " loving care " , or even " tough love " , that

might be necessary or useful for a successful, easy transition.

 

The fact always is: you get what you pay for.

 

Some people, like Tommy, for instance, are able to do this all on

their own. they have an inner strength that allows them to move

forward, find and apply information, and absorb and adapt that

information to achieve success, without whining or complaining

(primarily because, alone, they have no one to whine or complain to).

Many of us, however, are not as blessed with the internal fortitude

to make such sweeping lifestyle changes and stick to them in the face

of temptation and criticism from outside sources, and, for those of us

who fall into this category, we find folks who will, for a fee, hold

our hands, lead us along, and pat us on the shoulder as we stumble

along the path.

 

Should they charge? Sure.... they are sharing their time and

experience on a private, personalized basis.

 

Margaret

 

Shari wrote:

> Hey, at least she's honest. A whole lot more than " a number of raw

> foodists out there that have great things to contribute--from

> experience, not just theory " . I have discovered a lot of them have

> not been thorougly honest with the public about their " rawness " over

> the years.

> And why shouldn't she ask for $? Doug Graham charges upward of $600

an hour to talk to you. As does Roz, Rhio, any of the people in the

raw world charge to support themselves. I really don't have a problem

with her asking for donations. She's putting her time and effort into

a form of education. Why is it that when a " regular " person decides

to do something and asks money for it we balk? Just because she's not

been raw for 25 years or she doesn't have the " formal " raw education a

lot of them have, she should be doing this for free? I know that I

have spent thousands of dollars traveling and going to raw schools and

people still think I should be giving this away. Shoot, my washer

repair guy got his education the same way I did, hands on. I pay him,

why don't I deserve to get paid? You don't expect your newspaper to

show up for free, do you? Why should I be expected to talk to you on

the phone for up to two hours and not charge you? I could be doing a

lot of other things in that two hours.

>

> These are only a couple of reasons I got out of the raw food

" business " last year. Too many people too critical of my journey and

too many folks too critical of anything that has a price tag on it. I

only charged $25 per person per class and fed you an entire 4-5-or 6

course dinner. You got demonstrations, hands on instruction, you got

to eat and if there were leftovers you could take them home. Then I

would put things on my website and I too asked for " donations " for the

recipes. How many people bought? TWO! In four years!! The website

cost 6x as much as what they paid for the recipes. How many gripe

letters did I get? Over 200 and they all wanted " samples " and then

they wanted instruction and then they wanted more.

>

> Sorry this turned into a rant, but this is so very typical of the

raw food world.

>

> Shari

>

>

[Guest guest]

Since I started this thread, I feel impelled to say that

I think you've missed my point. You're being almost as

hypocritical as the cooked food community.

 

Doesn't raw food criticize MDs for taking money for

dietary advice when they're not trained in nutrition, they

don't learn on their own, and they don't even take their

own advice in most cases?

 

Isn't that similar to recommending a raw food site to a

newbie that is run by someone who is NOT raw, is obese,

is a smoker, is on chronic medication, etc.? And who is asking

for donations to " help continue the work " ?

 

Take this for a moment out of the food context. I'm a writer and

and artist. Wouldn't this be like me setting up a web site

offering advice on how to build bridges because I read

some books about it?

 

I'm not saying free information is better than paid, or

other people's experiences aren't helpful in moving one

along the raw food path. My point is to choose your

resources as carefully as you choose your food.

 

Mary Ellen

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Whoa, Margaret! I didn't exactly do it on my own. I prayed a lot and

while there is no charge for that, the answers I got were worth a

tremendous amount. I prayed for strength, courage, direction, and the

list could go on and on. Early in the search, I found Roger Haeske. I

would have to give him a lot of the human credit for putting me on

the right path and keeping me there. I paid him to do it but I don't

think he charges enough for his services. I don't even know what he

charges now but I'm sure, even if it's gone up, it's worth more than

anyone has to pay. I didn't know about this forum until six months or

so into my raw food adventure and he's the one who steered me to it.

It was part of my " education " . He thought I was well enough grounded

to be able to handle all the different points of view here. If anyone

is trying to do it on their own here, I'd advise them to get some

help. It's important to have let someone else make the mistakes for

you. Roger's forum is at http://www.howtogoraw.com. I'm a moderator

on the forum but I don't have a lot of time to even check in these

days since I have my own forum (with Roger's encouragement) at

rawfoodlifestyle/join. I'll welcome

anyone there who is sincerely trying to go the 811rv route. I have a

narrow focus on purpose. It's worked for me and I want to help other

people be successful at it, too.

 

One thing that worked in my favor was the fact that I've never eaten

meat of any kind. That was an advantage I had that most people don't.

I can thank my mother for making that decision for me. I was the only

one of five daughters she brought up that way.

 

I've been through the Body Enlightenment System and, even though

Roger didn't think I needed it, I've made a lot of new friends in the

raw food community. Currently, I'm involved in the Mastery program

which is only available to graduates of the BES. So, that's where I

am over a year down the road from SAD.

 

Tommie

http://www.rawburchard.blogspot.com

 

rawfood , " Margaret Gamez " <mgamez wrote:

 

> The fact always is: you get what you pay for.

>

> Some people, like Tommy, for instance, are able to do this all on

> their own. they have an inner strength that allows them to move

> forward, find and apply information, and absorb and adapt that

> information to achieve success, without whining or complaining

> (primarily because, alone, they have no one to whine or complain

to).

> Many of us, however, are not as blessed with the internal fortitude

> to make such sweeping lifestyle changes and stick to them in the

face

> of temptation and criticism from outside sources, and, for those of

us

> who fall into this category, we find folks who will, for a fee, hold

> our hands, lead us along, and pat us on the shoulder as we stumble

> along the path.

>

> Should they charge? Sure.... they are sharing their time and

> experience on a private, personalized basis.

>

> Margaret

[Guest guest]

I respect your opinion, but would like to add mine, as it offers a

different perspective.

I journaled on fromsadtoraw for 5 months when I first started

eating raw and I like that my journal is available on line for

people to read when I want to send someone a link to it or when

I want to send someone my pictures.

If Michelle stops running her website, my journal and many other

people's journal will be gone. That would be a true loss and be

very sad.

Another point is that I have not always stuck to my raw goals in

the 2 & 1/2 years I've been doing this. Does that mean no one can

learn anything from my experience? Should I stop teaching

people about the raw food lifestyle because I fall off the wagon

sometimes? On the contrary! Doing that gives me more

perspective on how hard this path can be AND when I get back

onto the path, I learn yet a new way to overcome my challenges!

This gives me even more to teach people and help them with!

How sad would it be if I gave up because I am at times ashamed

of my lack of discipline to stick to it?

Michelle has been on raw food for extended periods of time, has

lost lots and lots of weight and if one is willing to see it, one can

learn a lot from her experience.

One more point, is that a website costs money to have and time

to maintain. She could charge us, those people who are on her

site or she could ask for donations from those people who

appreciate the site and have money to give and feel passionate

about it. What difference does it make, as long as the site is

available? I find it very helpful and use it often!

Denise Thomas

 

rawfood , chicwriter wrote:

>

> Since my " transition " to raw lasted the better part of

> three years, I don't like being critical of others' journeys, but

> the sadtoraw site disturbs me.

>

> If you read the highlights link, you will see the site owner

> not only is not raw, she eats meat and eggs and junk food,

smokes,

> and is on some heavy duty chronic medications--hardly a role

model.

>

> Resources and recipes are helpful, but the " do as I say,

> not as I do " concept stopped working for me at about age 6.

>

> There are a number of raw foodists out there that have great

> things to contribute--from experience, not just theory by way of

> make a donation please.

>

> Is this too harsh?

>

> Mary Ellen

>

>

>

>

>