Ethnic Genetics/Foraging (was:Kristen-purpose of this list)

[Guest guest]

ELAINE wrote: I remember reading how the first Europeans to come to America

decimated friendly local populations, by each consuming in a day what would last

the locals most of a week, and hence eating much of their available food.

TIFFANY L. responds: Was this because the Europeans tended to cook the life

out of their foods more than the American locals?

 

ELAINE: That's a good point you made about Native American's inclination to

obesity on an SAD diet. But I'm not sure there's a massive genetic difference

(more an adaptive difference after birth) - after all, look how many people of

European descent are also obese on the SAD.

TIFFANY: Yes, the genetic difference isn't massive, it's just a difference.

I assume that even the ancestral Europeans, before cooking was a big hit, ate

more raw than they have been in the past few centuries. My point is that any of

a people who originated in colder climates, where they needed a certain amount

of body fat to keep warm and food was scarce a good part of the year, were

genetically adapted to survive during periods of near 'starvation'. Now-a-days,

those genes have stayed active in most of them. It's like they store fat, as if

there would be a near-starvation period coming up.

Here's an excerpt followed by the link to a scientific postulate describing

that:

" ...Some experts postulate the existence of a so-called " thrifty " gene, which

regulates hormonal fluctuations to accommodate seasonal changes. In certain

nomadic populations, hormones are released during seasons when food supplies

have traditionally been low, which results in resistance to insulin and

efficient fat storage. The process is reversed in seasons when food is readily

available. Because modern industrialization has made high-carbohydrate and fatty

foods available all year long, the gene no longer serves a useful function and

is now harmful because fat, originally stored for famine situations, is not used

up. Such a theory could help explain the high incidence of type 2 diabetes and

obesity found in Pima tribes and other Native American tribes with nomadic

histories and Western dietary habits. "

http://chinese-school.netfirms.com/diabetes-type-2-causes.html

Here's a link to genotype/environmental impacts between racial populations:

http://www.obesityresearch.org/cgi/gca?SEARCHID=1 & FULLTEXT=obesity+gene+ancestry\

& FIRSTINDEX=0 & hits=10 & RESULTFORMAT= & gca=obesityres%3B3%2Fsuppl_2%2F223S & sendit=G\

et+All+Checked+Abstract%28s%29

 

ELAINE: I've not known of anyone who forages having a reaction to the foods

they'd eaten, though you're right, it's always wise to procede with caution when

it comes to new foods.

TIFFANY: And they might had prepared the foraged foods in a way to not induce

harmful effects, like how we sprout our nuts, beans and seeds to allow their

digestion.

 

ELAINE: I think our limitations in terms of different foods these days are

caused by taste preferences, what foods are easily transportable, and

particularly agriculture. Agriculture meant we could choose the

sweetest/starchiest/fattiest foods and grow huge quantities. We were also able

to selectively breed them to be even sweeter/starchier/fattier. In terms of

taste, just as a typical SAD-eater would find an advanced RF diet pretty much

unpalatable (where's the sugar? the salt? the fat? the spices?) until their

taste buds adjust, so even a RF would need time to acclimitise to the very

bitter tastes of some of a foraging human's diet.

TIFFANY: All great points!

 

ELAINE: But those original foods are still out there, we just have to go out

and find them. And fortunately, there really is nothing so fun as going for a

trip to the countryside and looking for nice foods. I've found that children

particularly enjoy foraging - I guess it's a natural instinct, and they love

getting closer to nature. It also gives an aim to a country walk. I love to

take my (husband's) daughter out to pick wild strawberries, blackberries,

elderberries and flowers, etc. in season. She sees different plants and berries

and asks 'can we eat this?' and I wish I knew a bit more so I always had an

answer! When out in the country as a child we always ate wild fennel leaves,

dandelion leaves, shepherd's purse, pansy flowers, hazelnuts, etc. as we walked

along.

TIFFANY: I need to look for a place like that near me in the Southern

California mountains. Would you rinse, soak them for about 10 minutes then

rinse again with a portable water container, just in case, say, animals peed on

the plants?

Thanks again, Elaine!

 

Tiffany wrote:

Thanks for clarifying on me, Elaine - instead of me writing: " ...and so we were

biologically designed to develop over the years on a regional diet of limited

food resources. " , I should have written " ...on a regional diet of food

resources. " , as what I meant was that we didn't have access to foods like we do

now from other continents.

I also didn't take into consideration that there were so many more varieties of

local plants for our ancestors to harvest - historically, natural as well as

human catastrophes must have caused our limitations for today.

Yet speaking of 'evolving' around a diet of a huge variety of regional plants,

I believe some may be healthy to eat today while others would be toxic to most

people even in small amounts, even though our ancestors ate freely of them. When

it comes to inheritence of tendencies for specific food allergies, our

development and adaptation is influenced within just a few generations. (Take

for example, some Native Americans and their genetic tendency to become obese

given today's ample fatty food resources and the fact that their recent

ancestors ate from the earth.).

I would love to get my hands on one of those foraging books! Thinking about

growing my own variety of ancient edible plants and herbs from the different

lands of my ancestors makes me very curious in what other fresh tastes exist

that I'm missing out on.

-Tiffany Lohr

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

You know, I always figured the Europeans just were in

the habit of eating more (not responding to 'true'

hunger), but I'm sure your right, they probably did

cook food a lot more (and from seeing recipes from

those times, also had complex combinations of rich

foods - if they were wealthy enough of course!).

 

I've heard about the 'thrifty' gene theory - thanks

for reminding me of it, it does make a lot of sense. I

suppose most populations suffer from this to varying

degrees - we're just not designed to have plentiful

food supplies all year round. To compensate, we now

have to use will power to avoid eating unneccesary

food, to varying degrees of success!

 

I don't tend to wash forgaed foods unless they're

obviously in need of it. I guess there's a chance

something unpleasant like animal urine might be on it,

but if I can't smell it or taste it, I guess there

can't be much! I've read this can be a way of getting

B12 (among other useful things), but obviously if that

seems a bit gross than feel free to wash stuff.

 

It's rare that you're going to eat an enormous

quantity of foraged stuff every day, and I think this

is the reason people don't tend to have reactions -

the body is ingesting the plant toxins and surface

bacteria, etc. in such small quantities that the body

can deal with them or even benefit from them.

 

I also don't tend to sprout stuff, but then nuts

straight off the tree are in a very different state to

the dried ones we get - sort of green and sweet and

milky. I haven't tried wild grains, I guess these

would be better sprouted, I stick more to greens, nuts

and berries.

 

Hope you can find somewhere nice to find wild foods -

maybe even a local forager (ask the older folk,

they're often the best source of local knowledge like

that) - I know you'll really enjoy it!

 

--- Tiffany <bluelairess wrote:

 

> ELAINE wrote: I remember reading how the first

> Europeans to come to America decimated friendly

> local populations, by each consuming in a day what

> would last the locals most of a week, and hence

> eating much of their available food.

> TIFFANY L. responds: Was this because the

> Europeans tended to cook the life out of their foods

> more than the American locals?

>

> ELAINE: That's a good point you made about Native

> American's inclination to obesity on an SAD diet.

> But I'm not sure there's a massive genetic

> difference (more an adaptive difference after birth)

> - after all, look how many people of European

> descent are also obese on the SAD.

> TIFFANY: Yes, the genetic difference isn't

> massive, it's just a difference. I assume that even

> the ancestral Europeans, before cooking was a big

> hit, ate more raw than they have been in the past

> few centuries. My point is that any of a people who

> originated in colder climates, where they needed a

> certain amount of body fat to keep warm and food was

> scarce a good part of the year, were genetically

> adapted to survive during periods of near

> 'starvation'. Now-a-days, those genes have stayed

> active in most of them. It's like they store fat,

> as if there would be a near-starvation period coming

> up.

> Here's an excerpt followed by the link to a

> scientific postulate describing that:

> " ...Some experts postulate the existence of a

> so-called " thrifty " gene, which regulates hormonal

> fluctuations to accommodate seasonal changes. In

> certain nomadic populations, hormones are released

> during seasons when food supplies have traditionally

> been low, which results in resistance to insulin and

> efficient fat storage. The process is reversed in

> seasons when food is readily available. Because

> modern industrialization has made high-carbohydrate

> and fatty foods available all year long, the gene no

> longer serves a useful function and is now harmful

> because fat, originally stored for famine

> situations, is not used up. Such a theory could help

> explain the high incidence of type 2 diabetes and

> obesity found in Pima tribes and other Native

> American tribes with nomadic histories and Western

> dietary habits. "

>

>

http://chinese-school.netfirms.com/diabetes-type-2-causes.html

> Here's a link to genotype/environmental impacts

> between racial populations:

>

>

http://www.obesityresearch.org/cgi/gca?SEARCHID=1 & FULLTEXT=obesity+gene+ancestry\

& FIRSTINDEX=0 & hits=10 & RESULTFORMAT= & gca=obesityres%3B3%2Fsuppl_2%2F223S & sendit=G\

et+All+Checked+Abstract%28s%29

>

> ELAINE: I've not known of anyone who forages

> having a reaction to the foods they'd eaten, though

> you're right, it's always wise to procede with

> caution when it comes to new foods.

> TIFFANY: And they might had prepared the foraged

> foods in a way to not induce harmful effects, like

> how we sprout our nuts, beans and seeds to allow

> their digestion.

>

> ELAINE: I think our limitations in terms of

> different foods these days are caused by taste

> preferences, what foods are easily transportable,

> and particularly agriculture. Agriculture meant we

> could choose the sweetest/starchiest/fattiest foods

> and grow huge quantities. We were also able to

> selectively breed them to be even

> sweeter/starchier/fattier. In terms of taste, just

> as a typical SAD-eater would find an advanced RF

> diet pretty much unpalatable (where's the sugar? the

> salt? the fat? the spices?) until their taste buds

> adjust, so even a RF would need time to acclimitise

> to the very bitter tastes of some of a foraging

> human's diet.

> TIFFANY: All great points!

>

> ELAINE: But those original foods are still out

> there, we just have to go out and find them. And

> fortunately, there really is nothing so fun as going

> for a trip to the countryside and looking for nice

> foods. I've found that children particularly enjoy

> foraging - I guess it's a natural instinct, and they

> love getting closer to nature. It also gives an aim

> to a country walk. I love to take my (husband's)

> daughter out to pick wild strawberries,

> blackberries, elderberries and flowers, etc. in

> season. She sees different plants and berries and

> asks 'can we eat this?' and I wish I knew a bit more

> so I always had an answer! When out in the country

> as a child we always ate wild fennel leaves,

> dandelion leaves, shepherd's purse, pansy flowers,

> hazelnuts, etc. as we walked along.

> TIFFANY: I need to look for a place like that

> near me in the Southern California mountains. Would

> you rinse, soak them for about 10 minutes then rinse

> again with a portable water container, just in case,

> say, animals peed on the plants?

> Thanks again, Elaine!

>

> Tiffany wrote:

> Thanks for clarifying on me, Elaine - instead of me

> writing: " ...and so we were biologically designed to

> develop over the years on a regional diet of limited

> food resources. " , I should have written " ...on a

> regional diet of food resources. " , as what I meant

> was that we didn't have access to foods like we do

> now from other continents.

> I also didn't take into consideration that there

> were so many more varieties of local plants for our

> ancestors to harvest - historically, natural as well

> as human catastrophes must have caused our

> limitations for today.

> Yet speaking of 'evolving' around a diet of a huge

> variety of regional plants, I believe some may be

> healthy to eat today while others would be toxic to

> most people even in small amounts, even though our

> ancestors ate freely of them. When it comes to

> inheritence of tendencies for specific food

> allergies, our development and adaptation is

> influenced within just a few generations. (Take for

> example, some Native Americans and their genetic

> tendency to become obese given today's ample fatty

> food resources and the fact that their recent

> ancestors ate from the earth.).

> I would love to get my hands on one of those

> foraging books! Thinking about growing my own

> variety of ancient edible plants and herbs from the

> different lands of my ancestors makes me very

> curious in what other fresh tastes exist that I'm

> missing out on.

> -Tiffany Lohr

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

 

 

 

 

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